Why the fascination with Kimmer?

[RockyMtnAngelEyes]

Originally Posted by Yellobrix

It is interesting that the idea that Kimmer has gained a great deal of weight and so is hiding it has some appeal. But, just for the sake of argument, what if she has the opposite problem?

What if, instead of regaining it all, she truly has starved herself?

What if she can't bring herself to articulate a true maintenance plan, because her mind is committed to losing even more?

What if it really isn't all about the money -- and instead it's about having her methods affirmed and adored, because she herself needs not to face the fact that she is very ill?

I mean, she is promoting a plan of disordered eating habits, not the ones that she followed while she lost weight on Atkins, but instead habits that she developed AFTER her weight was lost and she discovered that while Atkins-induced ketosis was good, "deep ketosis" (aka, starvation) delivered a true high.

Just a thought.

I agree, it could go either way.. And there we are again...

I know that people with ED's have such a warped sense of how they really look, so yes, it's possible that there may be an attempt to be trying to lose even more... Very possible..

It could also be the other, weight gain.. It's possible that she despises 'fat' so much that even tho there has been a gain, she wants everyone to be 'rid ' of it.. Even if she isn't at this time...

IMO, I don't agree that money isn't playing a HUGE part in this tho... I think it goes without saying she want's to be 'adored' by all and seen as the great knowing diet guru.. Doing something for people that no one has done before..

Oh yeah, a couple someones did it before...

[anani]

Originally Posted by Samantha42

Can you send a PM to any of the girls asking for a "real" email address? Or give them yours? That way, even if you are being censored, there really isn't means to cancel your membership. Is that allowed?

Actually, I thought of this after I first posted that and I think I will give this a shot. It's interesting though. This is/was one of the busiest groups on the site and has been going for over a year. Many many posts per day by long term members and suddenly ...it's dead. This girl is the only one who has posted in the last 2 days. I don't know what to think. Probably some are like me and just taking the time to digest everything. But there are some usually very vocal and very consistent participants (no matter what) that are completely MIA.

[RockyMtnAngelEyes]

Originally Posted by Samantha42

Can you send a PM to any of the girls asking for a "real" email address? Or give them yours? That way, even if you are being censored, there really isn't means to cancel your membership. Is that allowed?

I would just be careful.. We know this thread is being watched, so they may be on the look out for PM's containing email addys, to find out who you may be...

[emmyjane]

Originally Posted by Samantha42

I have a feeling Dr. Eades addressed this exact study in his book Thin So Fast. I think it had to do with the protein quality at the time, and how they were extremely low quality. Now, they make better, complete sources (IE from whey), and he advocates using them to replace 2 meals a day. The article is interesting though.

I haven't read that book, so I don't know... I didn't see that the article really articulated what type/quality the protein was, only that it was from different manufacturers (so they didn't attribute it solely to one protein diet product/powder). They did refer to the "Last Chance Diet", which was a widespread protein fad diet at the time.

BUT, one thing I have read here is that Kimmers claims that if you are obese, that your body will "self-regulate" and burn the fat (not organs, etc.) and that is what the fat is biologically meant to do. She has said that if she had to lose her weight again, that she would do the "diet coke" fast... Her overall premise seems to be that if you have extra fat, then you are safe from harm.

SO, when I read that these people actually died... none with prior heart problems... it's very scary, whether or not the protein was of poor quality.

For example, if you look at person "7":
Female, 44 years old, before diet she weighed 213 lbs, about 5'-3" tall, non-smoker, she lost 4.8lbs/week, and lost a total of 39.6 lbs...

She was only on the diet only 2 months!

The article said that "none of the subjects had symptoms of cardiac decompensation, most were feeling very well and pleased with their marked weight loss, although hair loss and cold intolerance were frequently reported."

Person number "7" passed away during "refeeding", so she actually had went off the diet.

The article IS an example of a very extreme diet scenario gone bad. But when we hear anecdotal stories of people passing out in bath tubs, feeling faint while driving grandchildren, etc., it does make one wonder about those stories that we simply aren't hearing.

I just hope people use common sense.

[Magicsmom]

Originally Posted by emmyjane

BUT, one thing I have read here is that Kimmers claims that if you are obese, that your body will "self-regulate" and burn the fat (not organs, etc.) and that is what the fat is biologically meant to do. She has said that if she had to lose her weight again, that she would do the "diet coke" fast... Her overall premise seems to be that if you have extra fat, then you are safe from harm.

This is a post I have seen many times. Could someone who knows about fasting please address this and tell us if it is true? I have seen the Eades' write that protein deprivation leads to loss of lean body mass. If that is the case, then total fasting would produce loss of lean body mass.

[The Bunnell Farm]

Originally Posted by Magicsmom

This is a post I have seen many times. Could someone who knows about fasting please address this and tell us if it is true? I have seen the Eades' write that protein deprivation leads to loss of lean body mass. If that is the case, then total fasting would produce loss of lean body mass.

There is no need to fast or eat low calorie if you eat low carb. Ketosis will automatically kick in at appropriate levels and begin to burn your extra fat.

Stalls are simply your body chemistry making adjustments and tweaking and fine tuning you for your optimum health. Just keep doing what you have been doing and Ketosis and weight loss will begin again in a very healthy way. This process will probably occur on and off for the rest of your life. All you got to do is go low carb and everything takes care of itself.

It's the people who are trying to hurry nature along that get into trouble. Nature will take care of you if you allow it to. Fasting is emergency and unhealthy, it's Ketosis is a different bird. Kimmer is wrong about it being the same thing as normal Ketosis.

[Carolina Rose]

To add to my post upthread regarding the "numbers" at KK. I just came from there with the following information:

1 - There are 18 individual forums (Newbie Support, KK Boot Camp, Work Out Zone, etc.). If you click on each forum individually, you can see how many people are viewing that forum, much like you can here. In all 18 forums put together, there was a grand total of only 23 people viewing (subtracting my presence, of course). I forgot to check chat but the most people I personally have ever seen in chat at one time is 18.

2 - The question of posts per day also came up. There is a search feature there where you can check the totals of latest forum posts. I decided to be generous and chose "new posts in the last 48 hours." In 48 hours time, there were "only" 343 new posts across all 18 forums.

3 - Of those 343 new posts, here are some of the top threads getting new posts:
- the "Short Girls support thread" (looks like a great bunch of ladies)
- "I hate to say it ..... diarrhea?" (started by a newbie on Day 3. Several people cautioned her that the "other" extreme will be next! LOL)
- "Craving Crunchy" (self-explanatory)
- "Chewing Ice ... Don't Do it!" (evidently people are resorting to eating ice to try to quell the craving to crunch something, anything)
- "Only 10 lbs off, but look at the difference!" (two real before and after face-shot pictures. Congrats to this lady. I hope she can keep it off!)

Oh, one last thing ..... in response to why the running total of new members/members online/guests online was taken down, Kimmer said today, "Our member totals seem to distress "some" people so they've been taken down. They weren't accurate anyway. Our member base is now ~ 37K.

I thought the counter was a small "thing", like a site counter. The tech guys tell me it's a drain on the server to run it 24/7. This is why the counter was manually updated daily and not running constantly."

37,000 members? And only 23 online with 343 new posts in a 48 hour period? It's no telling how many of that *alleged* 37,000 have already quit the program, disillusioned, or even started it at all after finding out what KK was really all about.

[CarolynF]

I have read that if you are on a VLCD, and you lose weight, then 50 percent will be fat and 50 percent will be muscle.

If you lose more slowly and are on a higher calorie diet, then you lose 75 percent fat and 25 percent muscle..

So, the lower the calories, the more the muscle is used. Muscle takes up lots of calories to "run", so the body wants to preserve itself if you are eating very few calories, then it will dump "the big eaters"..the muscle.

So..Christin probably lost alot of muscle along with her 100 pounds of fat.
That's just the way the body works...Dr. Eades talks about this all the time.

Who knows when the organs start to be cannibalized? That's the guessing game, I guess. We can't control which muscle gets used as fuel, can we?
Neither could those poor dead folks.

[zelia]

Originally Posted by Magicsmom

This is a post I have seen many times. Could someone who knows about fasting please address this and tell us if it is true? I have seen the Eades' write that protein deprivation leads to loss of lean body mass. If that is the case, then total fasting would produce loss of lean body mass.

We discussed this question earlier in the thread:

Originally Posted by zelia

FYI Effect of starvation and very low calorie diets on protein-energy interrelationships in lean and obese subjects

This article says that the fatter you are when you start fasting, the less lean mass you lose.

[CarolynF]

Originally Posted by SoHappy

[[[On Christin's "mytotaltransformation" blog she lists what eats for maintanence because so many people want to know.


Quote:
Today's menu:

Breakfast - Fiber One Berry Medley with Coffee

Mid-morning snack - 1/2 Almond Breeze peanut butter chocolate milk shake w/ whey protein, low fat cheese wedge

Lunch - Turkey and Swiss Lettuce wraps, dill pickle spears and Diet soda, 1 small purple plum, 1 Carb Smart Ice Cream bar for dessert

Afternoon snack - celery and southwest dip, turkey pepperoni chips, Diet Pepsi "float"

Dinner: Tamago Egg Sushi w/ sauteed mushrooms, Edamame, side salad.

Total cals: 1209 total carbs: 90g Total protein: 110g ]]]


JaneJane, thanks for posting the above in answer to my question.

I certainly hope that Christin can up her calories A LOT from what she is now eating for MAINTANENCE!!! I can see that daily menu for weight loss, but I'd have to kill myself if my metabolism had been so badly diminished that I had to spend my life at that limit forever!

Is she actually done losing her weight now? Maybe I misunderstood and she is not on her lifetime of maintanence eating yet after all?

This is very similar to the Lean for Life plan...low fat with carbs around 70-90 and protein snacks.

[SoHappy]

Originally Posted by CarolynF

This is very similar to the Lean for Life plan...low fat with carbs around 70-90 and protein snacks.

Hi, Carolyn. I think the menu posted looks to be pretty nutritious for a day, but just not very many calories for somebody who is not in "weight loss mode". Those few calories seem to be for somebody who is dieting to lose weight, not for somebody who is in lifetime maintanence. Seems like at maintanence the daily calories should be quite a bit higher than those cited.

I was thinking that those calories stated might indicate that I had misunderstood.....and that she was still working on losing weight rather than maintaining.

[controlledcarb]

I have read that if you are on a VLCD, and you lose weight, then 50 percent will be fat and 50 percent will be muscle.

If you lose more slowly and are on a higher calorie diet, then you lose 75 percent fat and 25 percent muscle..

In older studies, before a full understanding of the protein-amino-acid matrix was well understood, fat losses accounted for about 65% of weight loss and LBM up to 35% in vLCD dietary conditions.

Since about 1989, when protein adequacy was included in study design, the fat losses while losing weight up to 12-weeks, under medical supervision and targeted supplementation for nutrients in vLCD conditions is about 75% fat and 25% LBM. Do it wrong though and the LBM losses may be as high as 35% of the loss. It has to be clearly understood that the reduction/preservation of LBM is due to very targeted nutritional supplementation - one cannot achieve it easily on their own.

Increase the calorie load, and the nutrient-density and LBM losses can be less than 10% of total weight lost. Most LC studies run around 10-15% LBM losses in free-living conditions - if those were to be duplicated in a metabolic ward condition (still ad libitum) with targeted supplementation, it could be less than 10% LBM loss.

[CarolynF]

Yes, this would be Lean for Life Weight Loss menu in my opinion..NOT the maintenance, which would be around 1300-1500, depending on your height/weight, of course.

Thanks, on the lean body mass..and remember on LC diets we are eating MORE protein than the normal diet..no matter how Low cal they are..That does make sense..

[rhlong]

Originally Posted by emmyjane

I haven't read that book, so I don't know... I didn't see that the article really articulated what type/quality the protein was, only that it was from different manufacturers (so they didn't attribute it solely to one protein diet product/powder). They did refer to the "Last Chance Diet", which was a widespread protein fad diet at the time.

BUT, one thing I have read here is that Kimmers claims that if you are obese, that your body will "self-regulate" and burn the fat (not organs, etc.) and that is what the fat is biologically meant to do. She has said that if she had to lose her weight again, that she would do the "diet coke" fast... Her overall premise seems to be that if you have extra fat, then you are safe from harm.

SO, when I read that these people actually died... none with prior heart problems... it's very scary, whether or not the protein was of poor quality.

For example, if you look at person "7":
Female, 44 years old, before diet she weighed 213 lbs, about 5'-3" tall, non-smoker, she lost 4.8lbs/week, and lost a total of 39.6 lbs...

She was only on the diet only 2 months!

The article said that "none of the subjects had symptoms of cardiac decompensation, most were feeling very well and pleased with their marked weight loss, although hair loss and cold intolerance were frequently reported."

Person number "7" passed away during "refeeding", so she actually had went off the diet.

The article IS an example of a very extreme diet scenario gone bad. But when we hear anecdotal stories of people passing out in bath tubs, feeling faint while driving grandchildren, etc., it does make one wonder about those stories that we simply aren't hearing.

I just hope people use common sense.

If every person who did a very low caloie diet died, then people who have gastric bypass and every anorexic teenager would be dieing en mass after a few months. For every study, that says eating vlcd is dangerous, there are studies that say it promotes longetivity. I personally do not do VLCD but I think it is irresponsible to say that VLCD alone will kill you.

[Molly_1010]

Originally Posted by rhlong

If every person who did a very low caloie diet died, then people who have gastric bypass and every anorexic teenager would be dieing en mass after a few months. For every study, that says eating vlcd is dangerous, there are studies that say it promotes longetivity. I personally do not do VLCD but I think it is irresponsible to say that VLCD alone will kill you.

At the same time, gastric bypass patients are under regularly supervised medical care, and anorexics who *don't* die get medical intervention. It's just as irresponsible to recommend a VLCD without some sort of trained medical oversight.

[Therese]

OMG, I did Kimkins for two months starting Jan2, 07. I am 54 and normally hot. I could not get warm. I had layers on at night. Starting in march my hair started falling out. I have lost at least 1/3 of my hair. I also developed nose bleeds and was in the emergency room with heart palpations. My iron and potasium levels are low. My name is the same here and on the other board however I do not think that matters. I always questioned how someone could for example train for a marathon on 500 calories. (This is true there is a memeber training for a marathon and was on the "egg white challange" I can appreciate the need for some calorie restriction. Jonny Bowden said that if you eat 10,000 calories of fat you will not lose weight. I believe it is all about listening to your body and being rational with the information we have. I am now trying Atkins/Dr Thompson LGL.

[Nady]

I think the percent of protein breakdown during fasting might also depend on how well nourished the person was prior to the fast~ meaning, if they were eating a prodominatly high carb diet with inadequate protein, then perhaps the body would have less dense protein tissue to start with~ that would mean it could deteriorate easier/faster when deprived of dietary protein.

Also, every book on fasting that I've read says that fasting is a time to let the body rest~ make no excessive demands~ don't exercise. That would also help preserve muscles from breakdown.

I believe in responsible fasting~ I've reversed or healed several problems that the doctors could only think to treat with prescription drugs~ I just don't see the 'responsible' part in the fasts associated with Kimkins~
~~~N

[emmyjane]

Originally Posted by rhlong

If every person who did a very low caloie diet died, then people who have gastric bypass and every anorexic teenager would be dieing en mass after a few months. For every study, that says eating vlcd is dangerous, there are studies that say it promotes longetivity. I personally do not do VLCD but I think it is irresponsible to say that VLCD alone will kill you.

Oh dear... sorry to have started a debate. I just thought the study was interesting as I had never actually "seen" proof that a certain type of diet could cause death in such a very short time. OF COURSE there are probably studies that show drinking too much water can also kill people. But, the thing is, everyone has a unique body with qualities that perhaps no other person has... I don't really think it is "irresponsible" to point out that in some cases, this could potentially lead to death. The longevity low calorie diets I believe are much higher than 500 calories, I believe they are closer to the 1000-1200 range. I could be wrong though.

For me, I know that I suffered heart palpitations and blackouts at age 14-16 from extreme VLCD (high protein, I had 2 protein shakes, then a meal of broiled fish/green beans), and I lost a ton of weight. And I do have some residual health/ED problems as a result. I honestly believe that if I tried an extreme diet like that now... it wouldn't work out too well. Just my opinion.

[aloise]

Originally Posted by emmyjane

VERY GOOD points, Aloise...

I googled "Kimkins" just now, and the 3rd and 4th top links (non-sponsored) were to Jimmy Moore's blog. The top 2 were the Kimkins site itself... so Jimmy Moore is/was surely her biggest affiliate (I just don't believe what she said in the "recalcitrant" post at all!)

I think the text links in JM blog (if you hover over them) have the same "code" (102.html) that the banners had, so I am guessing that it is still generating income for him.

He really does need to remove ALL links to Kimkins, IMHO, if he really was sincere in his apology.

It looks like Jimmy is not only removing all the links to the Kimkins site, but he is replacing old posts about Kimkins with this:

Originally Posted by Jimmy Moore

The post that appeared here has been removed for not promoting the low-carb community in the professional manner I have come to expect from myself. THANK YOU!

Read this blog post for more information.

and the "this blog post" points to the July 27 "From The Bottom Of My Heart, I'm Sorry" post.

so, I'm impressed. He is really following through on what he said in his apology.

This means that anyone finding Kimkins from one of Jimmy's old posts will be directed to this announcement if they view the current page (the cached page will remain as it was for a while, till google crawls his blog again).

Slamboard has an entry on this called "Jimmy Moore Steps Up"

[Nady]

Originally Posted by aloise

It looks like Jimmy is not only removing all the links to the Kimkins site, but he is replacing old posts about Kimkins with this:


and the "this blog post" points to the July 27 "From The Bottom Of My Heart, I'm Sorry" post.

so, I'm impressed. He is really following through on what he said in his apology.

This means that anyone finding Kimkins from one of Jimmy's old posts will be directed to this announcement if they view the current page (the cached page will remain as it was for a while, till google crawls his blog again).

Slamboard has an entry on this called "Jimmy Moore Steps Up"

Just read it~ apparently so did Jimmy~ he's listed as a recent reader~ I have to say, I'm even more impressed~ economic reasons my big butt! He knows exactly why we're so concerned.

I didn't know about Jimmy's blog before this thread~ but you can be sure I will be reading it regularly from now on!
~~~N

[Magicsmom]

Originally Posted by Nady

I didn't know about Jimmy's blog before this thread~ but you can be sure I will be reading it regularly from now on!
~~~N

Same here!

[anani]

The following are two posts from a 25 year old member of Kimkims who is eating on average 500 calories a day.


Since starting on kimkins I've more or less steered clear of strenuous exercise so I could let my body adjust to the new nutritional levels but the last two days, I attempted to do the beginning tape of Turbo Jam to get back into the swing of things.

I couldn't even get 10 minutes into the tape. I found myself extremely fatigued and at several points I was so dizzy, I really thought I might pass out if I didn't stop. I had to pause and grab onto the wall to get settled again.

I'm not new to exercise - I'm only 25 years old, no health problems, and I typically go to the gym 3-4 times a week and do 75 minutes on the elliptical (clocking 6-7 miles) and then finish with weights. Now I'm terrified of going back to the gym and falling off the machine!

Is my body still adjusting, or am I just not consuming enough calories? I'm concerned about the health aspect of my diet if I can't even exercise without passing out. Should I just add more veggies? I've been sticking to shakes and K/E but I'm going to add a cup of spinach tonight to see if that helps the situation.

Is anyone else having problems with this? I was hoping to start bootcamp on Thursday but I want to adjust my lifestyle properly before then."

"Dizziness got worse today - feels like I'm having heart rhythm issues but maybe I'm being over dramatic. I'm going to add a few cups of spinach today and stop for extra potassium and magnesium supplements on my way home."


This girl sounds really scared and even addresses her concern that her calories are too low. They looked at her fitday and the only advice she was given was maybe she is drinking too much water instead of what they should have told her go immediately go to a doctor. This advice or lack of came from the highest "authority" on the site besides Kimmer herself.