Why the fascination with Kimmer?

[Antigone]

I believe that if we take the "good side" of Kimkins and combine it with common sense, then it's a winner diet. I try to follow that. So no high-fat stuff for me, no severely restricted carbs and laxatives for me either. Oh, and I don't count fiber.

[tiggerr]

Originally Posted by happy cricket

I'm talking about macadamia nut oil guy.

Got it, read it wrong.

[cleochatra]

Originally Posted by Antigone

I believe that if we take the "good side" of Kimkins and combine it with common sense, then it's a winner diet.

It's called Atkins.

[cleochatra]

Originally Posted by jayed

Are you finding this shocking? Because it's really pretty consistent with what a lot of members are doing. My numbers were around that level for about 5 months. I was always advised to model my fitday on the biggest losers at kimkins and that's the caloric level of the most successful (i.e. fastest) losers.

My God.

[mermaid]

Cleo, if you count calories and lower fats, it is NOT Atkins. According to you all, if you even have coffee on induction you would not be on Atkins, since it has been said many times on this thread that if you tweak a diet you're not doing the diet.

There's that double standard again!

Well said, Antigone.

[Mia Tortilla]

Lucilla Welcome! Sounds like you've got this thing wired!

Good luck with your plan and keep posting, I like your writing style!

Tonya

[cleochatra]

Nooonononono, mermaid. She said this:

Take Kimkins and add common sense.

I did. I ended up with Atkins.

[Antigone]

^Hmn, more like Scarsdale actually.

But yeah, to each his own. I wanted to follow Atkins before, but found out I didn't like bacon, pork rinds, cream on my coffee, butter on my fish, and mayonaisse on my lettuce. I love eating egg whites, chicken breasts, I love not restricting my salad greens, and I love vinegar on my greens. Not that there's anything wrong with that - I know Atkins works for a lot of people, but it's just not for me. Just a personal preference.

[Shaina]

Originally Posted by Pleiades

Is it possible that she's not logging everything? I know I get lazy about it.

Possibly ... I miss days too but I am not representing a program that would hold me accountable to anyone but myself. Why stop using fitday (for the last 10 days) during her maintenance plan especially when she is viewed as a role model for the Kimkins program. The Kimmers blogs/links/testimonials have been shown to be dishonest at the very least. On her newly updated blog there is a one day maintenance menu, then provides a link to fitday that does not document any of the foods she stated or an increase in calories. What is she providing ... a sample menu of how to eat 300 to 700 calories a day?

[cleochatra]

But, Atkins done right is healthy. It's good stuff. Anyone crash dieting with Atkins can't blame Atkins.

People following Kimkins are encouraged to starve. There is an unspoken competition to see who can lose fastes (eat least). The problems inherent with Kimkins are the fault of Kimkins herself.

Any issues with Atkins does not lie with the good doctor, but with people misuing his plan. Kimkins is already really misused because of the nature of the diet and the ED-esque advice to begin with!

And there will be trademark issues with Atkins over continued use of the name and information over and over to produce validity. I received an email today from Atkins corp as well. I don't think they much appreciate what Kimmer's been up to.

[HevinMonkey]

Originally Posted by Hopefultobemomtomax

FYI, those cookies are not cheating per say, some of us use kimmers and k/e as a springboard and add or tweak it for our bodies, just like any other diet, that's the smart thing to do right? Some people stall on certain foods, some people don't. But as long as you know what does stall you, and support yourself through it, that is what we are doing good for yourselves. Listen to your body right? Read all those threads under Kimkins and you'll see many of us do this. I haven't met one person that doesn't tweak the diet for their metobolic needs. I have met more people that find after 3 days of k/e slowly adding in vegtables and getting their calories to 1200, carbs 20 or so, and fat low, is what does it for them. So we are all not as naive and we all don't follow kimkins to a "t" as this thread suggests. But what we do do is support eachother, and learn from eachother, even from this thread, I am learning to question, and then take it or leave it.

Dear Hopeful - I love the listen to your body advice...exactly what I am trying to learn right now - unfortunately its whining for carbs! I do have to respectfully disagree with you though and let you know that if you are making any tweaks/changes (which I am REALLY glad you are) then its no longer the Kimkins Diet as her plan does not allow for tweaks. She would tell any of you making tweaks to her plan to just call it Atkins. That being said, I hope your WOE is working for you and I am glad you are learning valuable tools and finding support! Keep up the good work!

[mermaid]

Lucilla, it's smart to start with Atkins. If it works and keeps working for you then its the most sensible way to go, and the most enjoyable way to lose weight. As for sustainable, well, everyone has their struggles on maintenance, just be careful and get lots of support.

Hey to Cleo.

[mermaid]

Kimkins does actually allow for tweaks. Her advice is usually that tweaking may slow your weight loss, but if you're okay with that then so is she. I saw this type of reply many times to questions here on LCF and on the other site.

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by Antigone

^Hmn, more like Scarsdale actually.

But yeah, to each his own. I wanted to follow Atkins before, but found out I didn't like bacon, pork rinds, cream on my coffee, butter on my fish, and mayonaisse on my lettuce. I love eating egg whites, chicken breasts, I love not restricting my salad greens, and I love vinegar on my greens. Not that there's anything wrong with that - I know Atkins works for a lot of people, but it's just not for me. Just a personal preference.

Well, I don't like pork rinds, cream in my coffee, butter on my fish or mayonnaise on my lettuce, I don't restrict my salad greens and I'm still following Atkins. To my knowledge here's nowhere in DANDR that says you can't eat egg whites or chicken breasts. The great thing about DANDR is that the choices are very individual as long as they're not high carb. I believe he says you can eat those things, not that you have to eat them.

[Antigone]

Honestly when I did follow Kimkins to the letter - and by this I mean following the plan PLUS Kimmer's advice in the Ask Kimmer thread - I always hovered around 500-600 calories a day. I also had several episodes of "cold and clammy extremities" during the afternoon which I brushed off the first few times because I thought it was just coincidental. But eventually I came to senses, which was why I ditched it and went to a more Scarsdale-ish LC.

I still would go back to something like Kimkins in prob the next few weeks - but this time, like I mentioned, I will add common sense to the picture. Oh, and during those times I crave fat? I will eat fat. I will have extra virgin olive oil, I will have avocados, I will have egg yolks (although I prefer whites really tastewise), a bit of mayonaisse. They will not be my everyday staple, but when I want them, I will have them, and I won't feel guilty. I won't care what my way will be called, I know it will not be straight Kimkins/Atkins/Scarsdale/Whatchamacallit, I'm out to find what works for me.

[HevinMonkey]

Originally Posted by mermaid

Cleo, if you count calories and lower fats, it is NOT Atkins. According to you all, if you even have coffee on induction you would not be on Atkins, since it has been said many times on this thread that if you tweak a diet you're not doing the diet.

There's that double standard again!

Well said, Antigone.

I have never seen where Dr. Atkins has demanded no tweaking on his diet - but have seem where Kimmer has. I don't think its been said that "if you tweak a diet you're not doing that diet" across the board, but in direct reference to Kimkins, and it was her that said it. I could be confusing Atkins with one of the other low carb books I have read but I'm pretty sure Dr. A encourages us to find what works best for us - AKA tweaking. Also, I would swear that he addresses the issue of calories and that it may at some point have to be addressed, but not to be concerned about that in the beginning. I could be wrong though, and if I am I stand corrected.

[Antigone]

Actually I remember Kimmer saying that people should not tweak Kimkins and just call the plan their doing Atkins instead.

[NDSunflowers]

HevinMonkey asks (emphasis mine):

It seemed like when the Slamboard stuff came out and Jimkins said he was going to get to the bottom of it that he was sincere. Some of his comments posted on Slamboard include:

* The truth is out there and I intend to get to the bottom of it. I have had nothing but a cordial business relationship with Kimmer up until now and intend to keep it that way so long as she remains forthright with me.

* Take a deep breath everyone and let’s do first things first. I plan on conducting the podcast interview via telephone and will decide from there if further investigative action needs to be taken. There’s more to this story than meets the eye and I intend to get to the bottom of it myself.

So what happened? He did a complete turnaround and is now almost viciously attatcking anyone who disagrees with him, using deceptive practices and refusing to aknowledge any other point of view.

HevinMonkey - I knew the reason for this had been covered before (although I believe it was referring to Kimmer... just took me a while to find it!)

I think Cleochatra hits the nail on the head for Jimmy too:

Translation: Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) is a pattern of self-centered or egotistical behavior that shows up in thinking and behavior in a lot of different situations and activities. People with NPD won't (or can't) change their behavior even when it causes problems at work or when other people complain about the way they act, or when their behavior causes a lot of emotional distress to others (or themselves? none of my narcissists ever admit to being distressed by their own behavior -- they always blame other people for any problems). This pattern of self-centered or egotistical behavior is not caused by current drug or alcohol use, head injury, acute psychotic episodes, or any other illness, but has been going on steadily at least since adolescence or early adulthood.

More about narcissism here.

Jeez... they really are merging into one person/personality! Jimkins is an excellent nickname indeed.

[HevinMonkey]

Originally Posted by mom2zeke

Well, I don't like pork rinds, cream in my coffee, butter on my fish or mayonnaise on my lettuce, I don't restrict my salad greens and I'm still following Atkins. To my knowledge here's nowhere in DANDR that says you can't eat egg whites or chicken breasts. The great thing about DANDR is that the choices are very individual as long as they're not high carb. I believe he says you can eat those things, not that you have to eat them.

Edited to clarify that I totally agree, especially with the last statement. No clue where I recently saw this, though I'm pretty sure it was on this board somewhere and the gist of it was... Sure I can have all the bacon and mayo I want, I can also have all the salmon and tofu I want...its all about the choices and with Atkins, as well as many other health oriented low carb WOEs, we have many of them.

[Antigone]

Originally Posted by mom2zeke

Well, I don't like pork rinds, cream in my coffee, butter on my fish or mayonnaise on my lettuce, I don't restrict my salad greens and I'm still following Atkins. To my knowledge here's nowhere in DANDR that says you can't eat egg whites or chicken breasts. The great thing about DANDR is that the choices are very individual as long as they're not high carb. I believe he says you can eat those things, not that you have to eat them.

True. I also read DANDR 72 - actually I read and reread it a lot of times because I find it very entertaining (I'm weird like that) - and I he allows high-fat stuff right? Actually, he mentioned that in this way of life, you can eat without limit solid "fattening" food (p15). Of course, one can eat lean protein, stay away from high-fat stuff, and still be doing Atkins. It's a matter of preference.

My point here is just that I think my plan is technically more like Scarsdale - lots of veggies and lean proteins.

[Cutie]

Originally Posted by jayed

Are you finding this shocking? Because it's really pretty consistent with what a lot of members are doing. My numbers were around that level for about 5 months. I was always advised to model my fitday on the biggest losers at kimkins and that's the caloric level of the most successful (i.e. fastest) losers.

actually, some of that was rather high...lots of people hang out in the 200s & 300s and you'll never see "those" people go above the 400's. supposedly something magical about 500 calories?

[Hopefultobemomtomax]

Originally Posted by cleochatra

But, Atkins done right is healthy. It's good stuff. Anyone crash dieting with Atkins can't blame Atkins.

People following Kimkins are encouraged to starve. There is an unspoken competition to see who can lose fastes (eat least). The problems inherent with Kimkins are the fault of Kimkins herself.

Any issues with Atkins does not lie with the good doctor, but with people misuing his plan. Kimkins is already really misused because of the nature of the diet and the ED-esque advice to begin with!

And there will be trademark issues with Atkins over continued use of the name and information over and over to produce validity. I received an email today from Atkins corp as well. I don't think they much appreciate what Kimmer's been up to.

I have never felt in competition unspoken or spoken to see who can lose fastest, or eat the least, I have also never felt encouraged to starve. I feel completely supported at low carb friends, maybe not by kimmer herself because she is no longer with us, but by the people I chat with. We not only support eachother, but challenge eachother in a completely healthy way...

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by Antigone

True. I also read DANDR 72 - actually I read and reread it a lot of times because I find it very entertaining (I'm weird like that) - and I he allows high-fat stuff right? Actually, he mentioned that in this way of life, you can eat without limit solid "fattening" food (p15). Of course, one can eat lean protein, stay away from high-fat stuff, and still be doing Atkins. It's a matter of preference.

My point here is just that I think my plan is technically more like Scarsdale - lots of veggies and lean proteins.

I haven't read Scarsdale in a loooong time (I think I was in high school) and all I remember was the murder scandal. It sounds like you've found the plan that works for you which is what's most important.

My point was just that with Atkins you have lots of choices too, and if I had to eat pork rinds - well . Atkins will always have my support because it's the only WOE that I've ever been truly successful on both in weight loss and maintenance.

I think it's great when people find the right plan for them. Kimkins concerns me for all the reasons that have been mentioned on this thread (ultra-low cal, laxative abuse, not a viable long-term WOE and outright fraud). I just wish there was a way to smoke her out of hiding and find out the truth!

[jayed]

Originally Posted by Cutie

actually, some of that was rather high...lots of people hang out in the 200s & 300s and you'll never see "those" people go above the 400's. supposedly something magical about 500 calories?

true, being under 500 was something I understood to be ideal. I kind of didn't want to freak Cleo out though.