Why the fascination with Kimmer?

[Jake]

Originally Posted by HevinMonkey

"Water has no magic powers...Water is a friend to Kimkins Diet members. Remember that all forms of water count -- diet soda, Crystal Light, 0 calorie flavored waters, mineral water."
(Taken from yahoo answers)

Somebody PLEASE vindicate her and tell me its true...I HATE water! Let Kimmer be right on this one...

They mentioned this on NPR the other day. They had some guy that was a scientist of some kind, and he said that in terms of HYDRATION (in other words not counting the effects of caffeine or whatever else) that the difference between Diet Soda and Water were minimal.

[HevinMonkey]

hmmm...at first I was sure that the new "anti-jimkins" website was yet another marketing ploy - nobody but him seemed to know about it, he seemed so proud to "promote" it, he knew the original title even though its not listed - but there is a new entry and now I am not sure what to think...Opinions anyone?

[CarolynF]

Well, water is magic according to the watercure doctor..When you add "things" to it, the body reacts differently to it..Sorry to say..

Soda is dehydrating..like coffee and tea. You used to have to drink MORE water to make up for the dehydration that these drinks cause you..

Our brains are made of water..Not Crystal Light...Just kidding..but I do think that water should be pure. Not to say you can't drink those other things also.

The test is the color of urine...If you are drinking enough water, it should be clear..If not, drink more water..

Sorry, Kimber..

[Jake]

[quote=CarolynF;8922843]Well, water is magic according to the watercure doctor..When you add "things" to it, the body reacts differently to it..Sorry to say..

Soda is dehydrating..like coffee and tea. You used to have to drink MORE water to make up for the dehydration that these drinks cause you..
QUOTE]

This is specifically what the guy on NPR addressed. He stated basically that the dehydrating affect of diet soda is overblown. I don't recall the exact numbers but he essentially said that if you take in 100 millileters of water and absorb 300 hundred of them, diet soda will compare so close that there's no good reason to be bothered by the difference.

[controlledcarb]

Originally Posted by HevinMonkey

hmmm...at first I was sure that the new "anti-jimkins" website was yet another marketing ploy - nobody but him seemed to know about it, he seemed so proud to "promote" it, he knew the original title even though its not listed - but there is a new entry and now I am not sure what to think...Opinions anyone?

I just looked and noticed something that might be a clue it isn't him (or at least not him doing the writing and posting)...the timestamp on the posts are ahead of the time in the US -- looks like the time overseas? I dunno, the style just doesn't seem to fit his and that last post was pretty harsh!

[Tooter]

Originally Posted by cleochatra

You guys should see the fitday stats for one blogger who worships Kimmer. She started out at 800 calories per day and steadily worked her way down to 200-400, and an occasional 600-700 per day.

But if you read her blog, it is a case study in eating disorder and denial or said ED.

I am simply gobsmacked.

[K'smom]

But diet sodas are full of chemicals that mutate in the body and wreak havoc! I know because I've felt the results of those chemicals. Its water for me, thank you!

[CarolynF]

Thanks, Jake..

Guys: Here is the email from Traditional Medicinals about using Smooth Move the way Kimmer said to do it:

Thank you for your email and question about Traditional Medicinals'
product Smooth Move Herbal Stimulant Laxative.

You are correct that our product packaging state that the formula is
indicated for occasional constipation only. If used for "off-label"
purposes such as a component of any type of diet or cleanse, such use
should only be under the recommendation of a qualified healthcare
provider. It is within the scope of practice of a licensed healthcare
provider to make off-label dosage and duration of use recommendations
based on an individual diagnosis. We do not endorse the use of Smooth
Move as part of a diet/cleansing program.

We do appreciate your taking the time to contact us.

Sincerely,

Ariana
Traditional Medicinals

[daisyHair]

What it is in sodas that leaches calcuim from bones? Is it an ingredient that will be listed on the can? Was it Phosphorus?

[Jake]

It's phosphoric acid.


Regarding the hydration thing - I went to NPR's site to listen again. It was some guy named Doug Casa of the University of COnnecticut. He said that if you take in 1 liter of water your body might absorb 800 ml of it and discard 200 ml in your urine. He also said that if you drink one liter of something with caffeine in it, you might absorb 700 ml and discard 300 ml in your urine, and that the net affect is that most fluid is absorbs, even with caffeine.

[rightnow]

To be fair you guys, sometimes people own/build/offer/sell things that they promote simply *because* they truly believe in it, and it's not offered (or purely, or affordably, etc.) elsewhere.

For example I'm involved in a field that has a certain relation to scientific practices. I often refer people to software (it is FREE, though!) that I built that allows this protocol to be maintained, in part for legitimacy-on-paper, in part because it is conducive to the practice. People sometimes accuse me of stating that protocol matters 'because' my site is geared that way. I say no, I spent insane free hours and server $ building this *because* it was not available anywhere else and I believed in it. It is not a conflict of interest, it is an additional feature of my efforts for the cause.

So if a guy sells macademia nut oil, which you must admit is not exactly the most common oil, that doesn't necessarily mean that he has some ruthless financial incentive for recommending it.


-------

Re: JM's $ profit: I actually agree that the detail is nobody's business. I wouldn't expect it to be shared. However, I think it's more than well established that the hyper-history of Jim's Kim Epiphany is so financially vested that the alleged personal blogging should be perceived as overt advertising, with similar motives.

[Tooter]

Originally Posted by rightnow

To be fair you guys, sometimes people own/build/offer/sell things that they promote simply *because* they truly believe in it, and it's not offered (or purely, or affordably, etc.) elsewhere.

For example I'm involved in a field that has a certain relation to scientific practices. I often refer people to software (it is FREE, though!) that I built that allows this protocol to be maintained, in part for legitimacy-on-paper, in part because it is conducive to the practice. People sometimes accuse me of stating that protocol matters 'because' my site is geared that way. I say no, I spent insane free hours and server $ building this *because* it was not available anywhere else and I believed in it. It is not a conflict of interest, it is an additional feature of my efforts for the cause.

So if a guy sells macademia nut oil, which you must admit is not exactly the most common oil, that doesn't necessarily mean that he has some ruthless financial incentive for recommending it.


-------

Re: JM's $ profit: I actually agree that the detail is nobody's business. I wouldn't expect it to be shared. However, I think it's more than well established that the hyper-history of Jim's Kim Epiphany is so financially vested that the alleged personal blogging should be perceived as overt advertising, with similar motives.

Oh, I agree, I don't have a problem with someone selling product they believe in. Not at all.

I was more concerned with the WW cover pages on his site!

Nothing wrong with making an honest buck.

[daisyHair]

Well this is interesting..
I just checked (3) diet sodas I have in my house..
Diet Coke (regular), Diet A & W Gingerale and Fresca Peach..
the only one that listed phosphoric acid was Diet coke..

[rightnow]

I think "Your Body's Many Cries for Water" (the book) should be recommended reading for everybody. It has these wonderful simple pictures and diagrams that explains in detail how water is processed inside the body, and how it differs depending on what is mixed in with the water molecules. While it's not unusual for many medical topics to be fairly unknown or only surface-known by most doctors, this particular field especially seems to have a few specialists and the rest of that field in general ignorance. The book is worth reading. If another researcher can debate the points and examples made in the book with worthy references, I would be very interested to read that. Until that should happen, I think Batamanjali (sp?) should be taken seriously regarding the health issues of water vs. other fluids.

[daisyHair]

Rightnow..
can you expound a bit on Batamanjali's book?
touch on some of the highlights?

[tiggerr]

Look at this sample low carb menu recently posted on the Kimkins Diet website which is only 600 calories...Extremely nutritious, low in calories, excellent for weight loss.

This is from the Yahoo answers site in response to this question:

PinkCarnation
Are diuretic slimming teas safe?
I've had a bit of water retention lately and it's made me gain a couple of pounds.

Note the OP doesn't ask for weightloss advice but it's given. And again 600 calories.
WHY? do Kimkins peeps keep saying almost no-one is following the lowest calorie intake when I keep finding posts and fitday's of people who do go as low as 400 and when Kim K. on the yahoo answers page advocates..heck..even points to the website?

Just want to know.

[CRosie]

I've been reading this thread on and off for days and what I cannot seem to determine is whether there is any rancor directed at WW...it seems to me they do bare some responsibility in all of this...if only to bring the inconsistencies to light or to further spread them? What do you think?

WW is famous for taking license and misrepresenting the information of the dieting experts they interview - just take a gander at Mary Eades blog where she discusses what happened after WW did an expose of Protein Power.

They tweak the plans to make them more accessible to a broader audience, to sell more papers...to convince the readers who make those cakes featured in their magazine believe they can effortlessly drop the pounds quickly after gorging on the recipes they feature in the same issue.

WW, National Enquirer, the Star - all the same as far as I can tell.

Ro

[LindaJ]

Interesting Wikipedia article ... that's not what was there a few days ago ... someone must be updating in response to all this discussion (this board and probably others) ... the current entry is much more critical.

[HevinMonkey]

Originally Posted by CarolynF

Well, water is magic according to the watercure doctor..When you add "things" to it, the body reacts differently to it..Sorry to say..

Soda is dehydrating..like coffee and tea. You used to have to drink MORE water to make up for the dehydration that these drinks cause you..

Our brains are made of water..Not Crystal Light...Just kidding..but I do think that water should be pure. Not to say you can't drink those other things also.

The test is the color of urine...If you are drinking enough water, it should be clear..If not, drink more water..

Sorry, Kimber..

Thanks Carolyn...another burst bubble for the day! Just kidding, I know your right, it just would have been so awesome if you weren't! If I'm not mistaken, doesn't Dr. A also talk about the possible stall effects from Diet Soda - either from the citric acid or the aspartame? I know I read that somewhere, just not recalling where at the moment. And Jake...you tried to help me...gotta appreciate that!

[Tennis4.0]

Originally Posted by CRosie

I've been reading this thread on and off for days and what I cannot seem to determine is whether there is any rancor directed at WW...it seems to me they do bare some responsibility in all of this...if only to bring the inconsistencies to light or to further spread them? What do you think?

WW is famous for taking license and misrepresenting the information of the dieting experts they interview - just take a gander at Mary Eades blog where she discusses what happened after WW did an expose of Protein Power.

They tweak the plans to make them more accessible to a broader audience, to sell more papers...to convince the readers who make those cakes featured in their magazine believe they can effortlessly drop the pounds quickly after gorging on the recipes they feature in the same issue.

WW, National Enquirer, the Star - all the same as far as I can tell.

Ro

I completely agree. But, I never buy the rag. Don't even look through it at the grocery. But, they should have some culpability in promoting a fraud and bringing a sub-par diet to the masses.

[HevinMonkey]

Originally Posted by CRosie

I've been reading this thread on and off for days and what I cannot seem to determine is whether there is any rancor directed at WW...it seems to me they do bare some responsibility in all of this...if only to bring the inconsistencies to light or to further spread them? What do you think?

WW is famous for taking license and misrepresenting the information of the dieting experts they interview - just take a gander at Mary Eades blog where she discusses what happened after WW did an expose of Protein Power.

They tweak the plans to make them more accessible to a broader audience, to sell more papers...to convince the readers who make those cakes featured in their magazine believe they can effortlessly drop the pounds quickly after gorging on the recipes they feature in the same issue.

WW, National Enquirer, the Star - all the same as far as I can tell.

Ro

I might be wrong here, but from what I understand they DID tweak the plan in a way that made it a little less dangerous than what is actually called for in reality. But...I'm sure someone on here will know much more that me about that.

[tiggerr]

Might as well contact 'the biggest loser' producers as well:

Per yahoo answers quote:

3) Low cal low carb diets like Kimkins. Weight loss is 5% of total body weight the first week and continues very rapidly. It is similar to the diet on Biggest Loser.

[cleochatra]

If anyone has been harmed due to the KK plan, they should contact the FTC and attorney general of California and let them know.

This could save the life of someone.

[Just4Me]

Originally Posted by rightnow

To be fair you guys, sometimes people own/build/offer/sell things that they promote simply *because* they truly believe in it, and it's not offered (or purely, or affordably, etc.) elsewhere.

For example I'm involved in a field that has a certain relation to scientific practices. I often refer people to software (it is FREE, though!) that I built ...

So if a guy sells macademia nut oil, which you must admit is not exactly the most common oil, that doesn't necessarily mean that he has some ruthless financial incentive for recommending it.
...

I can't speak for Carolyn, but for me, it's not a matter of believing someone has a "ruthless financial incentive." It's the appearance of impropriety----a pecuniary conflict of interest gives an appearance of impropriety. That's not to say it even raises red flags, but it does put me on notice that that person MAY have other motives to promoting the item beyond their true belief in its efficacy.

In Dr. Sears' defense (if memory serves), he made statement refuting the rumor that he was promoting his own product, stating that he was in no way affiliated with that company that had the name "Sears" on it. I was using the rumor part of his story to make my analogy.

I think this differs from your example of referring people to the software you built, in that, as you mention, the software is free.

ETA: that same appearance of impropriety/pecuniary conflict of interest biz is what made me wary of Jimmy Moore, until he might set things straight (either by stopping taking payment for ads on his blogs, or by being upfront about them and proving by his words that he still offers his opinions free from influence). However, his responses to this topic have been, at least as far as I've seen, not much more than arguments ad hominem, and I have no respect for that. (The word histrionic comes to mind, too, but I didn't want to characterize... )

[CarolynF]

Okay..Rightnow..OF COURSE I have the Water Cure book too..LOLOL..
I really like him..There is a website that has lots of testimonials to the
joys of water..and the many health benefits of good water...Water cure 2 all put together will give you lots of great information..

Hey, I don't mind ANYONE making money from selling mac oil..Of course, you don't have to get it from Dr. P...

Tig: The Biggest Loser has is a doctor-supervised diet plan. If anyone felt faint,etc..There are doctors on call. I think the calories are in the 1500 range..aren't they?