Why the fascination with Kimmer?

[ItsTheWooo]

Originally Posted by CarolynF

Let me list what was on this plan:

Breakfast: 2 eggs, 1/4 salsa, 3 oz. lean ham OR Kimkins shake: 1 scoop of pp mixed with 4 ounces of lc yogurt with 8 ounces of diet soda OR seltzer with ice cubes..

Lunch: 2 cups lowcarb soup, 1 cup steamed broccoli, 2 Tbs. lite dip

Dinner: 4 ounces grilled shrimp, drizzle of lowcal dressing, 1 cup raw spinach, 1/2 cup veggies; 2 Tbs. lite dressing.

Snacks: One per day: one hard boiled egg OR 2 ounces of chicken OR 1 string cheese..

That is not nearly enough protein.
Eating that little is unhealthy at best, disordered at worst.

[Silver Spice]

Originally Posted by ItsTheWooo

That is not nearly enough protein.
Eating that little is unhealthy at best, disordered at worst.

At work we have a health management plan and they send out a monthly newsletter. It claimed that we only need 5 oz of protein a day.

I think I'd die.

[ItsTheWooo]

Originally Posted by CindyLouWho

So true. I struggled from the time I was 10 until I turned 30. When I was in the throes of anorexia even eating a bite of something would send me into a panic attack. I remember when I was trying to get better, really wanting to eat, I looked for something that would go down easily and decided on one of those single serving cups of applesauce. It took me two hours to eat just half of it because I was in complete panic-breakdown mode over putting that applesauce in my stomach.

I did Kimkins for a couple of months last year. I didn't even think about it sending me back into past unhealthy behaviors because I conquered all of that years ago. Luckily because of all of the therapy I've had in the past, I recognized that it was doing just that before it got out of hand. That scared me back into doing things the sensible way, the way that Dr. Atkins intended this WOE to be done and since then I've been good.

Wow... a panic attack eating applesauce. This is an eating disorder.
I was not far-gone with clinical anorexia nervosa, but I can remember that kind of overwhelming anxiety with food. Every time you eat more than you are comfortable with, it's there... and even when you eat your normal amounts, you still feel anxiety and guilt.
I remember, trying to do something really simple like buy a coffee, and having pretty much a private panic attack because they handed me something with all this WHITE in it (I remember just looking at the white, and feeling such overwhelming dread ). I was in public, so I didn't actually have a visible panic attack but I did have to go march off somewhere and collect myself (I was about to either cry or freak out ). This happened twice, actually (panic buying a coffee) .
Even to this day, when I buy coffees of any kind... I get really really paranoid about it and I can't let them put the cream in it for me. I always order it black and do it myself. I guess I just never got around to breaking that habit (kinda like, how I count all my calories still, even though I full well know I don't really force myself to under eat anymore, so it's really pointless practice... it just makes me feel safe and I don't want to risk messing anything up because I am in a really comfortable place with food and weight). Originally I started recounting cals as a compromise to help me be more reasonable about food (when I had attempted to give up counting them, I just kept restricting more to compensate for the worry/fear and wound up losing more weight and feeling more nuts).
For me, I kinda slooowly let go of the disordered behavior. First, it was stopping weight loss, and then slowly accepting higher weights, and higher cal intakes... and then the final leap was sometime back in march last year, where I just made this agreement with myself that I was done and I was going to make a commitment to feeling my best . So, when I started like eating more and focusing more on my happiness and well being I could only do that by agreeing that I would write everything down. All the time. And now, calories to me are just like these things that I measure, like a ritual, every time I eat, I count the calories... even though, they pretty much don't mean much, since I go by hunger and types of food and meal composition etc.

(Lately I've been thinking about stopping the habit, but I don't know if it's a good idea right now... I am *really* afraid to spin out of control in any direction. Besides, I've come to view calories, as well as my weight, as this neutral health-property thing that doesn't really say much at all about worth or anything... like a diabetic recording average blood sugars or something).



It's good that you are so self aware that you were able to catch yourself and stop it before you got out of control. I don't think this is the more common outcome, unfortunately.

[ixtapacheryl]

I remember my doctor did not limit the amount of protein I ate. He just said to eat until I was satisfied and eat many small meals per day. He put no limit on amounts.....

[vernswifevickie]

:
Originally Posted by CarolynF
Let me list what was on this plan:

Breakfast: 2 eggs, 1/4 salsa, 3 oz. lean ham OR Kimkins shake: 1 scoop of pp mixed with 4 ounces of lc yogurt with 8 ounces of diet soda OR seltzer with ice cubes..

Lunch: 2 cups lowcarb soup, 1 cup steamed broccoli, 2 Tbs. lite dip

Dinner: 4 ounces grilled shrimp, drizzle of lowcal dressing, 1 cup raw spinach, 1/2 cup veggies; 2 Tbs. lite dressing.

Snacks: One per day: one hard boiled egg OR 2 ounces of chicken OR 1 string cheese..

That is not nearly enough protein.
Eating that little is unhealthy at best, disordered at worst.

I ran this thru fitday asuming that there was 4 oz of lean protein in the soup...remember there was no recipe for the soup in the article....it came out to 90gms of protein which according to the "ask the dietician" website is more than ample.

the following is copied and pasted directly from the dietician website:



The RDA for protein is age and gender dependent. Assuming you are an adult female older than 25 years, you would need 50 grams of protein per day.

[vernswifevickie]

[quote=vernswifevickie;8910733][quote]:
Originally Posted by CarolynF
Let me list what was on this plan:

Breakfast: 2 eggs, 1/4 salsa, 3 oz. lean ham OR Kimkins shake: 1 scoop of pp mixed with 4 ounces of lc yogurt with 8 ounces of diet soda OR seltzer with ice cubes..

Lunch: 2 cups lowcarb soup, 1 cup steamed broccoli, 2 Tbs. lite dip

Dinner: 4 ounces grilled shrimp, drizzle of lowcal dressing, 1 cup raw spinach, 1/2 cup veggies; 2 Tbs. lite dressing.

Snacks: One per day: one hard boiled egg OR 2 ounces of chicken OR 1 string cheese..

That is not nearly enough protein.
Eating that little is unhealthy at best, disordered at worst.

I ran this thru fitday asuming that there was 4 oz of lean protein in the soup...remember there was no recipe for the soup in the article....it came out to 90gms of protein which according to the "ask the dietician" website is more than ample.

the following is copied and pasted directly from the dietician website:



The RDA for protein is age and gender dependent. Assuming you are an adult female older than 25 years, you would need 50 grams of protein per day.

and...I forgot to enter the ham so it's even actually a little higher than that.

[ItsTheWooo]

Assuming there is 4 oz lean protein in the soup is a big assumption. When I hear "low carb soup" I'm thinking broth based soups with a scant amount of pro... but yea, if there was a large serving of lean protein, that might not be so bad.

[Jake]

Originally Posted by ItsTheWooo

Assuming there is 4 oz lean protein in the soup is a big assumption. When I hear "low carb soup" I'm thinking broth based soups with a scant amount of pro... but yea, if there was a large serving of lean protein, that might not be so bad.

The only LC soup I ever make is cabbage and hamburger based. I dont know why, but I never have thought of broth as "soup".

[vernswifevickie]

Originally Posted by happy cricket

The only LC soup I ever make is cabbage and hamburger based. I dont know why, but I never have thought of broth as "soup".

I always have 3 to 4oz of lean protein in my soup...and I don't think I'm terribly unusual

[cleochatra]

Awwww no you did-unt!

OK, but let's be real here. How many folks are eating less than what WW required to be listed in that menu?



Come on. Let's be honest. Where are the egg white society? Those 200-calorie a day vixens of low-calorie gourmandizing?

They be out there sucking down those chicken ova casings!

It's a crash diet mentality.

[mycattaz]

Originally Posted by Cutie

and you know what's scary about that? the WW version of the plan is far healthier than what's listed on the site as the plan options. someone at WW took some liberties and added more stuff to the plan...the sample menu given is way more food than most people are told to eat. for example, it listed 3 meals plus snacks...with a snack being a mozarella cheese stick. on the kimkins plan, a cheese stick is/was on the meal replacement list of foods.

and the menu certainly is no where near what christin (the cover model) posted that she followed to lose her 100 lbs in 5 months or what heidi said she did to lose her weight...but most WW readers probably thought so...that to me was questionable advertising. "eat this and YOU TOO can have phenomenal results like these ladies!"

I remember Lchottie07 ( the one on the cover of WW) said she was disappointed that didn't put in there what she was eating at the time.... the menu was way off...

[vernswifevickie]

Originally Posted by ItsTheWooo

Assuming there is 4 oz lean protein in the soup is a big assumption. When I hear "low carb soup" I'm thinking broth based soups with a scant amount of pro... but yea, if there was a large serving of lean protein, that might not be so bad.

ok...without the chicken in the soup but figuring in the ham...it would be 85 gms. ..still completely acceptable

[cleochatra]

Originally Posted by mycattaz

I remember Lchottie07 ( the one on the cover of WW) said she was disappointed that didn't put in there what she was eating at the time.... the menu was way off...

Was LCHottie following the same crash diet? Or was she following a different plan?

[mycattaz]

she did kimkins

[mycattaz]

LChottie07

this has a link to her fitday

[cleochatra]

Dear Lord. That is abominable. No wonder they lied about what she eats.

There is such a huge fraud here, I am just speechless.

[mycattaz]

its clearly shows more food in the WW article then what Lchottie was eating on kimkins

[cleochatra]

BTW, I'm not dissing on LCHottie. She's a sweet lady, but my gosh. My gosh. There are little girls out there desperate for anything. Those poor kids.

[mycattaz]

I agree, she is a real sweetheart.... I just remember her being upset about the diet not being as she describe in the ww article....

[Cutie]

Originally Posted by cleochatra

Was LCHottie following the same crash diet? Or was she following a different plan?

lchottie (christin) did the K/E (kimmer experiment) for five months with the occasional "finger grab" salad if eating out at a restaurant or something.

[ixtapacheryl]

Well this is very strange. As I told you Kimmer banned me from the site and refunded by $14.95 and it has already appeared in my checking account (online banking). Well tonight I get an e-mail from some webmaster staying that my request for the refund was denied. It sounds like maybe they have a new group of people working there. Not only that I received a new password two days ago so I could access the site. I replied that I had already received my refund, and please remove me from the newsletter and remove my name and the new password from their computer. I'm totally perplexed! What is going on?

[ixtapacheryl]

Originally Posted by mycattaz

sounds like alot of confusion going on over there....

Those were my thoughts ......
1. Banned from site
2. Receive Refund
3. Refund Denied
4. Received newsletter
5. Got new password so I can access web page

I wonder if Kimmer even knows what is going on with the people she has hired.

[Cutie]

so, do y'all think the WW menu looks bad?

'cause here's what happened to me...

christin (the cover girl model) & i became friends and found out that we live within a mile of each other and start visiting some offline too. when she got the call about WW & called me that day to tell me about it, i was THRILLED for her! we got together at starbucks before she left to go to LA for the photo shoot...she came by my place when she got back home to show me the pics that the WW people gave her to keep from the shoot...it was all very exciting stuff! so i told my friends about her and the magazine etc. and told them that they'd get to read about heidi too (these are gfs that are not online chatters so they've had a hard time "getting" the whole online community thing and i was happy to have something "tangible" to show them).

anyway, by the time the magazine came out, i was long gone from the site, wasn't speaking to heidi anymore, etc. but hadn't talked about any of it with most of my friends. they saw the magazine & got it on their own because they remembered what i said. soon after, we all got together for lunch and i soon realized they were all really watching to see what i put on my plate and how i was eating etc. i finally asked them what was up and they said, "well, we got the WW mag and read that article you told us about...and we're wondering how to talk to you about this online eating disorder "club" you've been a part of all this time...this is a starvation diet."

at the time, i thought, "wow, if you think THAT menu is ED material, you would die if you saw the "unofficial" menus..."

anyway, it was interesting to get an "outside" perspective on it.

[controlledcarb]

Originally Posted by vernswifevickie

ok...without the chicken in the soup but figuring in the ham...it would be 85 gms. ..still completely acceptable

it's not kimkins, not even the most lenient plan:

it allows too many vegetables (salsa, 1-c broocoi, 1-c spinach raw, 1/2-c veggies, for which I calculated string beans = 1.75 cooked vegetables and 1-cup raw), reasonable on a low-carb plan, but NOT according to "kimmer"

her plans tell one to not eat dairy, the WW menu includes cheese and/or yogurt? NOT allowed according to "kimmer"

And, hello! The WW menu is 625 calories if one doesn't include meat in the soup, and without it being stated, it's best to assume it's not included considering the detail they provided for other things!

625-calories = starvation. period. no way around it.

[Sherrie_lc]

Hello to every body

Wow I can't believe I have finally got through this thread, I have been trying all week LOL

I have already forgotten a lot of the things I wanted to reply to LOL

Warning I have barely slept the last few days (and no not because of this thread LOL) so hopefully I make some sense hehe

I have been trying to compile a bunch of studies on VLCDs and on the gall bladder issue, almost all will say that you need a minimum amount of fat to empty your gall bladder, one recommendation was 12g per meal. So if you are going to do this then please at least try to get that much fat in. I know even with the boot camp you could get that in just through the meat you eat but people need to know because here I have seen plenty of encouragement by Kimmer to stick with very lean sources of protein (ie no read meat) and I have also seen it to the extreme here with people even tossing out their egg yolks.

Otherwise, there is a pretty big risk for gall stones which is very well documented and common sense will tell you if that is a big risk on VLCDs under 800 calories then its going to apply to water fasting too!

I see a lot of people say they have no issues with the plans as written but I DO!

Simply put because, just because something is generally safe in the short term does not mean it is safe in the long term. With the studies I have seen showing its safety if adequate protein, fat etc is met they all outline that it IS in the short term (< 12 weeks). They also warn that it is not recommended for anyone with a history of psychosis as these diets can have a big impact on mental health in susceptible people. (who knows maybe this is Kimmers problem )

This is one of the reasons why I have a HUGE problem with people endorsing Kimkins as a HEALTHY way to eat. Just because something can be done safely over the short term does not mean it is healthy. For it to be healthy then surely that would imply that it is safe indefinitely which is not true!!!

And that is my main issue with both Jimmy and Kimkins, the other one is that when this diet is endorsed the dangers or risks are not mentioned at all, there are no warnings, just a hugely misleading endorsement which I find totally irresponsible.

I have seen mentioned here many people say that people have to take responsibility for their own decisions. Yeah that is true BUT when you INTENTIONALLY hold yourself up on a pedestal as a knowledgeable low carb advocate and/or guru that people can look up to you and trust then you are ALSO responsible. When Jimmy first started promoting his kimkins diet last month he was telling people that he has looked at all of the 5 plans and that NONE of them were under 1200 calories. THAT is a HUGE exaggeration.

But back to kimmer, in reading through her posts here (I have been reading them here every now and again since last year) she has over and over again assured people that it is perfectly safe, that there is no such thing as starvation mode and that your fat stores can supply all the nutrition you need. Rubbish, fat stores supply calories, toxins and hormones (and maybe some fat soluble vitamins like vitamin A & D?). I have seen her post and I have been told she said the same thing on her forum was that it was shown to be safe to water fast for 382 days and that is she could do it all over again she would lose her 160 pounds through water fasting. This is so dangerous. Anyone that has read her posts have seen that she comes off as very knowledgeable, confident and convincing, it is easy to understand sometimes why some people get drawn in to it all. Of course if you REALLY look through all her numerous posts you will see she seems to cleverly sidestep or even ignore valid questions when they are brought up, Jimmy does the same thing.

Of course I have realised that a lot has been deleted due to arguements so it is hard to know if she has done that with everything.

I recall some people wondering about whether teenagers do kimkins etc Well just recently (I am not a member of her forums so this is hearsay but I totally trust this person as I have known them for a few years now) I received an email by them because they were very concerned. A mother was asking if it was okay for her teenager to do the diet and this was kimmers reply:

For the teenagers, naturally check with their doctor but what Kimkins basically excludes is simple sugars and there's nothing dangerous about that.

The difference for teens is I suggest 3 dairy servings a day: 1 string cheese, 1 Dannon Carb Control yogurt, 1/2 cup cottage cheese. OR for faster loss skip those and take a calcium supplement to equal 1200-1500 mg.

Check Adora calcium, it comes in chocolate flavor: (search "Adora")

Be sure she takes a good multivitamin. Children's chewable is perfectly fine (Centrum children's has the most stuff). Also, she might think it's