Why the fascination with Kimmer?

[ItsTheWooo]

Originally Posted by CarolynF

Hi..

What I found most interesting that how lowcalorie diets effect our brains, like It's the Woo mentioned in her post. We never think about our brains until we need them.. We may be losing body fat, but what is happening to our brain and our way of thinking we do lowcalorie diets? Scarey, huh?

Yes, it is quite scary. And you know, it's somewhat permanent. To spare the details , there are real changes in how the brain is wired after. This is a major reason they often relapse, and can never really *totally* stop the thoughts, the anxiety, the risk of relapse.
Certainly being healthy, and the use of meds, can control or even eliminate it for some... but for others, they will always struggle with eating disorders.

Most of the damage (and the starvation) occurs only when the diet is severely imbalanced (extremely low cal, and/or insufficient protein/minerals/vitamins without enough EFAs etc)... or, alternately, when weight has been forced too low (because, even if diet is not totally suicidal, once we get into the more extreme underweight ranges, there are going to be gross metabolic imbalances and subsequent neurological/physiological abnormalities either way).

If anyone is doing a severe diet (disorder or not) I implore you: Please take care of your health. There is no reason not to at least do the minimums you can, by focusing on protein and good fats and taking supplements.

[CarolynF]

Here is an excellent article why protein shouldn't be our source of energy..
And, Kim, protein is digested FIRST and used as energy before dietary fat and body fat (according to Kimkins)..

Why Protein is not a Good Energy Source (long)

[cleochatra]

{{{{{{Tonya}}}}}}}

I agree, Carolyn. There is nothing good about the plan. I'm not going to sugar coat it. The plan is dangerous. Even the most stringent fast on Atkins was given with extreme and myriad warnings, caveats and advice. It was never meant as 'the way of eating' for weight loss.

I don't generally decry weight loss plans, but this plan is insane.

Woo-- As someone who has tried starving on macaroni and cheese versus protein, it is much easier to not be hungry while nursing an ED when eating chicken boobs than processed carbs. Maybe I'm oversimplifying, but brevity seems to be the soul of wit in this conversation.

[HevinMonkey]

Originally Posted by jayed

I don't understand why having concerns about the plan (or more particularly the application of the plan) and questions about Kimmer means that someone is "jealous."

That is what I am trying to figure out also. I am truly happy that this plan has worked for some people...honestly, and I hope you can maintain on it as well...I think thats what we are all looking for and if you found it . But to be jealous of someone who is recklessly putting people's physical, mental and emotional health in danger is not something I think any of us can be accused of. Concerned. Scared. Empathetic. Shocked. Disgusted. Absolutely.

[ItsTheWooo]

Originally Posted by AuntieMame

Why would you have a gallbladder attack?

The gallbladder stores bile, which is use to emulsify (break apart) fats during digestion.

When you restrict calories or fat a lot, the gallbladder does not empty as much, as often. This (among other factors) can help contribute to the formation of gallstones, which can irritate or inflame the gallbladder or the ducts. In severe cases there may need to be a cholecystectomy (gallbladder removal).

Rapid weight loss, low cal or low fat eating, or any condition which reduces dietary fat can precipitate gall bladder attacks for this reason.

[cleochatra]

I just spoke with a friend who reads WW regularly. I asked her if she'd seen the plan and, as a diabetic, she said she had seen it and remembered it. Why did she remember that particular article? Because she said it was insane, even for WW.

[ItsTheWooo]

Originally Posted by cleochatra

{{{{{{Tonya}}}}}}}

I agree, Carolyn. There is nothing good about the plan. I'm not going to sugar coat it. The plan is dangerous. Even the most stringent fast on Atkins was given with extreme and myriad warnings, caveats and advice. It was never meant as 'the way of eating' for weight loss.

I don't generally decry weight loss plans, but this plan is insane.

Woo-- As someone who has tried starving on macaroni and cheese versus protein, it is much easier to not be hungry while nursing an ED when eating chicken boobs than processed carbs. Maybe I'm oversimplifying, but brevity seems to be the soul of wit in this conversation.

Hi,
I think the problem is we may be having different ideas about "starvation". If someone is eating one low calorie thing a day, it really doesn't matter much what it is.
On the other hand, if calories are severely restricted (but, there *is* consumption) then it does matter quite a bit if it is protein or carbs, sure.

I think I might have taken literally when you said a piece of candy as an example when you were only making a point (that restriction with carbs is a lot more difficult than restriction with protein).

[CarolynF]

I read that stupid magazine every week..LOLO..and this week they actually have a plan that has 1,400 calories on it.. It looks very good and it is all about having small meals throughout the day..Dr. A. would do this sometimes, too..

I think we should all write WW..Of course, THEY had the disclaimer on the top
that you should see your doctor and diabetics, pregnant/nursing women should not do this diet..

[cleochatra]

That's what I meant, Woo. {{{{{woo}}}}}}

[rightnow]

Originally Posted by RockyMtnAngelEyes

My opinion is, yes it does have to be kept being said, because people keep saying we are putting 'her' plan down, when in fact, that's not the case...

Just like it being said that, because 1 person says they haven't seen something, some of us are taking things out of context, or it didn't really happen...

No, I'm saying what you are saying. :-) The writer I responded to was saying we shouldn't be talking about the plan because the plan was as fine as anything else (as all dispute others' plans). I was trying to point out that at least as far as her higher-cal official plan-on-paper at her site currently goes, THAT one is not what's ever been argued here; only the super lowcal version and all the personal advice given. We're on the same page there... I must have just said it badly, sorry.

Edited to add: don't forget there are currently SEVERAL plan-variations. So it's hard to say "the plan" because that could be addressing any one of them and they vary a lot. I personally don't like any of them. But the higher calorie plans are at least less-insane.

[daisyHair]

Hummm...

I really have to say I am glad I came back into this thread today..

I had read the first 80 pages or so.. and totally was freaked out by many of the posts.. It seemed to me that no good could come from any of this.... It certainly didn't make me feel good and many of the posts really made me concerned and creeped out and reminded me of other boards I left because of a very depressing atmosphere.

But WOW! What a great thread it has morphed into! I think this is going to help MANY of us in ways we are not even aware of yet.

I have struggled with an ED for 20 years. I have fasted for days, taken laxatives, fainted on several occasions, written myself horrid things in my journal to read to keep me "motivated".. things like.. "did you see your fat a** in that video yesterday, you have enough fat on you to not eat for freaking months"... "Your sister looked great.. why are you just such a blob" mentally bashing constantly.. and that's just one entry.. there are YEARS of this kind of self talk in my journal. I still deal with this - EVERY single day..

I have READ the Ana sites many times. Sadly I felt pulled in both directions.. worried about our young ladies but also secretly (and sickly yes.. please no flaming) admiring them for their control..

Control which I would always somehow "lose".. after not eating for days..

I would binge, until I would throw up because of the sheer volume of food.. not actually making myself throw up on purpose.. I would cry for days when weight poured back on because I could not stop eating- I was sure at one time I had some kind of split personality. I would stand in front of a mirror and watch myself eat - thinking seeing the sad display would help me stop.. but it just made me hate myself even more. I would then start yet another fast.. spending days on line looking at slim celebrities and diet sites trying to keep up my fast for as long as I could.

I went for six months without leaving my house because I HATED the way I looked... six months of life I did not live... I want to bawl right now just thinking about that.. I spent thousands of dollars on line... buying things because I couldn't bring myself to love myself enough to even walk outside.. much less drive to the freaking store.

When I first joined the site I saw the Kimkin's thread and read quite a bit.. I didn't feel one way or the other about her..

BUT after reading the thread, I was reminded again of two very "successful" weight losses in my past on Stillman's and decided to go back on M/E....

I say "successful" because the weight always found it’s way back - both times.. after reaching my goal and losing over 60 pounds.. I could never find an equilibrium.. it was always "eat next to nothing" or "eat until you can't see straight"... I still struggle with not being able to find the “happy medium”.

I actually gave up for a few years.. when I got married and just decided to be "happy" with my weight.. and gained an additional 45 pounds. But I think they were the happiest times I can remember.. not obsessed every day…

I guess what I really am doing here is my confessions as well...
many of my friends and family have no idea of these things.. everyone thinks I have it all "together".. I am getting better with the “appearance” but truly.. I actually struggle every hour of every day..

[cleochatra]

Carolyn-- LOL! I'm glad to hear they pulled their heads out of their hinders! I swear.

I told my friend I'd read about this crazy plan in WW and she was like, "I know exactly which one you're talking about. How can you forget a plan that nutty?" She's lost a bunch of weight on her own and has more to go, but she wasn't in ANY way bamboozled into thinking that KK WW plan was a practical one.

I hope there are many, many more just like her! It gives me hope that a random sampling of a WW reader in a chance conversation netted that response.

[beautifulme]

Originally Posted by CarolynF

I read that stupid magazine every week..LOLO..and this week they actually have a plan that has 1,400 calories on it.. It looks very good and it is all about having small meals throughout the day..Dr. A. would do this sometimes, too..

I think we should all write WW..Of course, THEY had the disclaimer on the top
that you should see your doctor and diabetics, pregnant/nursing women should not do this diet..

Man..you know how much money I (we) have wasted over the years buying weight loss magazines...too much
That was one of my new years resolutions..NO MAGAZINES(about WL.)
They all pretty much rotate the same info.......

[cleochatra]

{{{{Daisyhair}}}}}} Looove your new avi, BTW

[RockyMtnAngelEyes]

Originally Posted by rightnow

No, I'm saying what you are saying. :-) The writer I responded to was saying we shouldn't be talking about the plan because the plan was as fine as anything else (as all dispute others' plans). I was trying to point out that at least as far as her higher-cal official plan-on-paper at her site currently goes, THAT one is not what's ever been argued here; only the super lowcal version and all the personal advice given. We're on the same page there... I must have just said it badly, sorry.

Probably wasn't you.. I'm the one who got your reply and the posters mixed up.. Believe it or not... Quoted the wrong one... Sorry 'bout that...

[daisyHair]

Thanks Cleo...
and Beautiful...

I am sitting here crying my eyes out.. that was SO freaking hard... OMG...

[CarolynF]

This is from the Obesity Center who works with overweight people all the time..They define Very Low Calorie Diet as anything 800 calories or less.


Changes that take place within your body while you are on a VLCD include:

*

Slow down of BMR - Your metabolism slows to conserve energy because the body thinks it is starving.

*

Breakdown of protein as a source of energy - To get needed carbohydrate, the body breaks down protein. This causes a loss of lean body mass such as organ and muscle tissue. It is important to preserve lean tissue, since it increases your basal metabolic rate. Losing too much lean tissue increases the percentage of fat in your body. The result is a reduced metabolism. This is one reason why it is so easy to regain weight when you lose weight quickly.
*

Fat loss - In a VLCD (or during starvation), about half the weight you lose is fat and the other half is lean tissue, such as muscle. On a more moderate diet, the loss is about 75% fat and 25% lean tissue.
*

Electrolyte and water loss - Electrolytes are minerals found naturally in the body, such as potassium, calcium, sodium, and magnesium. Electrolytes are needed to keep the body's balance of fluids at the proper level and to maintain normal functions, such as heart rhythm, muscle contraction, and brain function. Mineral and electrolyte imbalances can occur while on a VLCD. These imbalances can be life-threatening. This is the reason these VLCDs must only be used under a health professional's supervision.

*

Calcium Depletion - Bone mass is lost. This is more risky for women, because they diet more often than men and they are also at higher risk for developing osteoporosis.

Who can benefit from a very low calorie diet

VLCDs are generally safe when used under proper medical supervision in patients with a body mass index (BMI) greater than 30. BMI is a mathematical formula that takes into account both a person's height and weight. Use of VLCDs in patients with a BMI of 27 to 30 should be reserved for those who have medical complications resulting from their obesity.

This does not include children, adolescents, pregnant or breast-feeding women, for whom very low calorie diets are not appropriate unless part of a specialized treatment program. Also, people over 50 may not tolerate the side effects associated with VLCDs because of preexisting medical conditions or need for other medications.

These diets are not recommended if you have heart problems, blood clotting problems, bleeding ulcers, liver disease, kidney disease, or cancer or if you have had a stroke.

The most common serious side effect seen with VLCDs is gallstone formation. Gallstones, which often develop in obese people, anyway, especially women, are even more common during rapid weight loss. Some research indicates that rapid weight loss appears to decrease the gallbladder's ability to contract bile.

Although VLCDs are efficient for short-term weight loss, they are no more effective than other dietary treatments in the long-term maintenance of reduced weight. Therefore, obese patients should be encouraged to commit to a long-term treatment program that includes permanent lifestyle changes of healthier eating, regular physical activity, and an improved outlook about food because without a long-term commitment, their body weights will drift back up the scale.

[cleochatra]

Honey, it is hard. I didn't feel better for admitting my issues at all. Perfectionists never like to admit they're not perfect. It's a battle.

You did the right thing! I lubs my daisyhair.

[RockyMtnAngelEyes]

daisyHair, good to see you, sweetness... Thank you for sharing..

Oh, the 'act'...

I have my 'act' down pat for the ED and another area, that I'm not ready to talk about.. And it doesn't belong here anyway...

It amazes me to read the stories, and see so much of myself in them.. Some things are different, some are right on, in how I was, and still, I've found out in the past couple days, struggle with...

[cleochatra]

Carolyn-- oh and you KNOW these people aren't doing this under a doctor's orders. People who have had WLS are very closely monitored. We have a bunch of folks self-prescribing. The ana- kids are going to be all over this plan. We continue to put the wrong people on pedestals in this country.

[CarolynF]

I know they aren't..Hopefully, they have good health insurance when they have to have their gallbladders out. $60 is nothing compared to major surgery..

[dointhis4me]

Daisy

[daisyHair]

Carolyn..
the Gallstone situation really rang true for me...
I have lots of gallbladder problems..

you know, reading all of these posts has opened up a floodgate of emotion in me... and I have actually learned a few things..

one of which...I had never heard of the ED mentioned a few pages back that stood for an ED that really didn't fit the "main stream" ED... (Can’t remember the actual initials used) like Ana or Bulimia.. I have always sort of used that as an excuse to not really "admit" I have a problem.. because my ED didn't fit in any mold.. I didn't have the exact same situation as either of them so I could pretend I really had no problem... it certainly was interesting to hear that there was actually a group of ED that didn't fit the main two descriptions...

[AllieCat0817]

Originally Posted by Tiggeroo

Now I have to wonder about that over at Kimmers new site, Will there be others there to say HEY this is not safe or good for longterm, or is it going to be a bunch of lambs to the slaughter? What if someone there does speakout will they lose their club membership and net access to her site?

Ya think? Uh...... yeah they'll 'lose their club membership'. lol (no it really aint funny but still).