Why the fascination with Kimmer?

[Justme3]

Originally Posted by Tooter

You obviously didn't read the entire thread.

If you can take the time to do that, I can take the time to respond to you (if your responce would still be the same).

omg there are over 100 pages to this thread one starts with someone saying that this Kimmer person is not the person in the before and aft pics.in the middle people saying some pretty mean **** ...and resoloving life long issues....and ends the last page ..well you can read it


good grief this looks helpful


people can buy colored contact lenses you know is it really worth all that thought...

not for me it isnt ..thanks for helping me want to run outside and get some air!

[Mavis]

Originally Posted by happy cricket

Coke will not dissolve a tooth after three days. This is an old internet/e-mail legend that is untrue (it is featured on Snopes if anyone cares to check it out - most of the old Coke legends are absolutely false, although I'm sure most of us have received the emails). I drink anywhere from 2 to 10 liters of Diet Pepsi a day, and my teeth are lovely. Please be careful - there's enough to debate in this thread without adding urban legends to the mix.

IIRC this was also brought up on Mythbusters and I believe that they busted the myth.

[Deb294evr]

Originally Posted by jada

I dont care if that picture is her next door neighbour or if she has duped people or lied we all have done something neg. in our lives who the hell are we to judge, she has done a great job of helping people and the best job she has done is the hype created arround her, cos it comes to show that people can gather and talk ish and suspend critical analysis or scrutinise but forget that behind closed doors we too have our own little black books. Come on LC's we all know better lets keep the ugly comments to ourselves and get over it................................................ ..................we all here for one vision and goal-maybe im not who i say i am, so what i live with the consequences and shame not you------no more dissin ya'll

HERE HERE !!!

[Deb294evr]

And yes, I have read the entire thread. These past couple of days have shown alot of pain and hurt from the past, the entire ED behavior thing that so many of you relate to. I cannot relate to any ED behavior because I have never experienced it. I am sorry for those of you in such pain though.

Anyway, I am out of this thread now, because it has nothing to do with my wonderful experiences with Kimmer for years. Sorry if some of you had bad experiences, but I never did. I do my own thing, but I have definately learned alot from her. I take the good and leave what I wont use.

[scandalouslyglam]

Originally Posted by SoHappy

I'd never read the "Ask Kimmer" thread so I picked a page at random and somebody was asking Kimmer the following:


[Wow, that's great. How did you feel after 45 days of not eating or did you eat broths as I see some do? I know you're not a big water person so you fasted with mainly diet sodas? I'm just wondering how it would feel after not eating for so long.]


And here is Kimmer's response:


[Believe it or not, after you stop eating for a week you don't think about it much. After two weeks, it feels normal not to eat.

Why?

We spent an extradinary amount of time food shopping, putting groceries away, prepping, menu planning, cooking, cleaning the kitchen, washing dishes ... and when you take all of those food related activities away, you're literally forced to take a hard look at yourself.

This is when most new fasters quit, around day 4. Mentally they're freaking out. They're sure they're starving. They miss their dear friend, "food", and food addiction is a very strong habit to fight.

OK, without food what am I? Who am I? If something bad/good happens and I don't celebrate or commiserate with food, what else on earth can I do?

You take a whole new look at yourself. Until you go through it, you don't know what I'm talking about.

The energy high is incredible.

Detox is a lulu, but you thank your body for doing what it does best, establishing priorities and taking care of business.]


OMG!! After two weeks of not eating it FEELS NORMAL NOT TO EAT?????? And she says the energy high is incredible. I'm thinking this is close to "starvation euphoria". That actually is not considered good.

"We spent an extradinary amount of time food shopping, putting groceries away, prepping, menu planning, cooking, cleaning the kitchen, washing dishes ... and when you take all of those food related activities away, you're literally forced to take a hard look at yourself."

What the Heck is going on in this woman's mind? Is she saying that she STOPPED Shopping, cooking and what not FOR HER FOSTER CHILDREN. Whoa...

[arcbeav]

Originally Posted by ItsTheWooo

1) It is untrue that our "Hungerostat" ( word) is controlled by protein.

I didn't say it was. I said (or tried to, anyway) that the study posted by Regina showed that it became the primary one if protein intake was too low.

Originally Posted by ItsTheWooo

With all respect to Dr Eades, he is assuming the individual is not exceeding their protein requirements (that is, after metabolic need for amino acids and energy are met).

I specifically asked him about what happens if excessive amounts of protein were eaten. He categorically said, with respect to excess protein being converted to glucose - "Doesn't happen".

Another question related to very low carb, if you have the time. You wrote “if, however, one isn’t eating any carbohydrates, the body has to spend energy to convert the protein and trigylceride to glucose”.

I have read that this process is fairly inefficient. Does that mean that your protein requirements will go up if you eat very low carb since more of the protein will be converted to glucose (with some wasted in the process)? It seems that if you don’t eat enough protein, your body will cannibalize muscle to get the glucose it needs.

On the flip side though, if you eat extra protein, will all of the excess protein be converted to glucose and will this raise your insulin levels, causing you to store those extra calories taken in as fat, even with no carbs taken in?

Thanks again for your time.

Hi Ryan–

It takes about a gram of protein to make 0.7 grams of glucose, so if your only source of glucose was protein, you would have to eat 100 grams or protein to make 70 grams of glucose. But you don’t get all of your glucose from protein. Some comes from the glycerol backbone of the triglyceride molecule. When dietary fat or your own stored fat is broken down, the glycerol backbone holding the three fatty acids is released and can be used to make glucose. So, you do need extra protein on a low-carb diet to help keep the blood glucose stable without having to cannibalize your own lean tissue.

The body only converts the protein needed to keep glucose in the normal range, so you don’t have to worry about glucose levels going up and a resultant insulin rise. Doesn’t happen.

Cheers–

MRE

Originally Posted by ItsTheWooo

IF (*if*) a person has eaten an excessive amount of protein, it will be turned to glucose, which will be turned to fat.

Proof? Other than "everyone knows it" or "it happens with me"?

BTW, pretty much all of the "high protein is bad" studies are done in the context of high carb or SAD. We (or I was, anyway) are talking in the context of a low carb diet.

[vernswifevickie]

For what it's worth, I am doing kimkins, I am a member of the kimkins site, I do not have an eating disorder, I am not starving myself, my teeth are not falling out, I am not taking laxitives on a regular basis, I eat low fat protein and low glycemic veggies, I drink at least 64oz of water a day, a couple of cups of coffee, a couple of diet sodas, i take my vitamins, I work out 3 times a week at curves, and walk between 1 and 3 miles a day. I have not seen the crazy advice being offered on the kimkins site that so many of you claim is being offered there. The times I've seen laxatives discussed it's been in the context of constipation...not as an aid to weightloss. Dr Atkins advocated the use of laxatives in his 1972 plan as well. Yes, there are those who fast on a regular basis, I'm not one of them. I have also known many people in my life who fast regularly...some for weight loss purposes and some for religious purposes. I knew a pastor who fasted for40 days and he didn't die or have any long term health issues from it.

What I see alot on this thread is kimmer's advice being taken out of context and eggagerated (sp?). I find it heartbreaking that there are so many with eating disorders but kimmer didn't cause any of you to have an eating disorder and I would think that someone with a history of ED would need to consult with his/her physician before starting any weightloss plan.

Ok...having said all of that...my question to you all is....how is it that this thread exists on a site hosted by a company that sells the "frankenfoods" that Jimmy Moore is being criticized for endorsing, has an entire section dedicated to supplying the kimkins plan at no charge and yet nobody is outraged about THIS site? Don't get me wrong...i don't have a problem with the kimkins plan or with netrition...I just find it ironic that the outrage only centers around the kimkins site where you have to pay to get the info but nobody seems to be bothered by the fact that it's all available here for free.

[cleochatra]

From Dr Eade's website:

If we’re on a low-carbohydrate diet, however, where do we get the sugar we need to maintain our muscle mass? From the protein we eat.

It’s important to eat plenty of protein while on a low-carbohydrate diet so that the dietary protein can be converted into blood sugar as needed.

Hope this helps.

[cleochatra]

verns-- don't get me wrong. I think Kimkins is a crash diet. Period. That's my belief. I wouldn't allow my daughter to follow the plan, either. What a grown adult chooses to do is their business.

The diet, however, is unable to be sustained, and while promising quick weight loss has caused at least one person on this thread to pass out. That isn't safe.

I will continue to tell those who will listen that healthy low carb living consists of fat consumption and sane weight loss for long-lasting results. I don't judge people following the plan. Everyone wants a quick fix in our buy-it-now society. It's the way things are.

As for netrition helping fund this site, they sell some very healthy products which are great for a lower-carb lifestyle. BUT, if they cause a stall in someone and make them regain their weight or stall, ditch the stuff. Apparently for some, the endorsements are more important than doing what's really working. Acting as a partner with netrition doesn't infer frankenfoods = low carb living anymore than being an affiliate with xxxxx means you support some of the materials they sell.

Just some thoughts!

I wish you well regardless of plan you follow, and respect your right to follow the plan which works for you, even when we disagree about methodology.

[mermaid]

Thanks for your posts Vickie and Deb. You both seem like very reasonable people. Vickie you made an excellent point about Netrition selling frankenfoods.

It's funny that on this thread when anyone posts anything positive about Kimkins, it gets the response that "this is not about the diet." But numerous negative comments about the diet have gotten nothing but cheering responses. It's a bit of a double standard.

BTW, when I was on Atkins in the 90's, eating about 3,000 calories a day (losing 3+ lbs per week) I felt like passing out many times, had heart palpitations, and I felt out of breath a lot. It was a scary. Then I realized that I needed more potassium and other minerals, and when I started taking those supplements those problems disappeared. My point: You all act like Atkins doesn't cause any problems at all for anyone, and really it does sometimes because everyone is different.

[cleochatra]

IMO Not a double standard.

For some this is about whether or not the person selling the plan is the 'real deal'. For some of us, this thread is about the efficacy of the plan and its impact upon society in a pejorative way. To others, this is a thread about selling out for greed. For others, this is a time of discussing how plans can easily bring out an underlying ED or create another.

That doesn't make this thread a double standard. It makes it a lot of people focussing on different issues, but all with the general same opinion that there is something very not cool (even in our not all perfectly agreeing on the specifics).

We're one of those philosphical think tanks.

[mermaid]

Maybe people should stop saying "this is not about the diet" then, and let everyone speak on whatever they wish to focus on.

[LaurieRobo]

Wanna know what drives me nuts about this diet ??? Maybe not but I'm gonna say it anyway!!!!

A poster on the kimkins forum just asked how much is 2 cups of lettuce... pretty innocent and yes good info - but reality check - I didn't gain any of my weight any of my times eating 10 cups of lettuce or 4 cups instead of 3!

This is what the diet brings people to - Worrying about lettuce calories and carbs It makes me dizzy!

[ItsTheWooo]

Originally Posted by controlledcarb

Glycerol, which is one of the two components dietary fat is initially metabolized to (the other is fatty acids), can be used to manufacture glucose. It's just not as "energy efficient" to use as amino acids are - glycerol requires more energy to covert to glucose than amino acids do by entering the citric acid cycle as pyruvate or coverted in the liver by means of gluconeogenesis to manufacture glucose.

The problem with glycerol isn't that it is inefficient... it is that it is a small, energy insignificant part of fat.

Evidence of this is the fact that eating glycerine (the same stuff that is the glycerol in fat) is highly caloric... and, eating a *lot* of glycerine is going to induce hyperglycemia (if it doesn't mess up fluid balance first... it's got a high oncotic pressure, draws water like no ones business... thats why food manufacturers love to put it in bars to keep them moist). There are a few studies which document this.

Protein, on the other hand, is highly gluconeogenic (over 50% of amino acids are gluconeogenic, and the conversion yeilds a high net energy). Excess protein largely turns to blood sugar and then fat.

[HevinMonkey]

Originally Posted by vernswifevickie

I have not seen the crazy advice being offered on the kimkins site that so many of you claim is being offered there.

The times I've seen laxatives discussed it's been in the context of constipation...not as an aid to weightloss.

What I see alot on this thread is kimmer's advice being taken out of context and eggagerated (sp?)

I find it heartbreaking that there are so many with eating disorders but kimmer didn't cause any of you to have an eating disorder and I would think that someone with a history of ED would need to consult with his/her physician before starting any weightloss plan.

...I just find it ironic that the outrage only centers around the kimkins site where you have to pay to get the info but nobody seems to be bothered by the fact that it's all available here for free.

The "crazy" advice is not a "CLAIM", but absolute fact. Look around this site - there for all to see - black and white, signed by Kimmer herself (or himself - whatever the case may be.). Ask some of the Kimkins members for copies of the PMs they have received - Oh wait, my bad, you can't do that because someone cleaned house at that site and they all mysteriously disappeared. Wait...go look into the archives where that advice was given....whoops, sorry, those are gone too.

Laxatives being recommended only for constipation? Please feel free to peruse the Ask Kimmer board here at your leisure. From what I got there MOM was practically a requirement of that WOE. I may not be the brightest in the bunch, but I guarantee if I took it like that so have many others.

Sadly enough, the advice Kimmer gave on this board does not have to be exagerrated in order to be considered dangerous and unhealthy. Nor does it need to be taken out of context. I compiled a fairly long post, in several parts, that were taken from her thread. I was actually quite careful to NOT take anything out of context, and I found no need to do so as it was all right there - clear as a bell.

You may want to learn a little more about ED before you make any judgements. What we all *need* to do and what we actually do is governed by many things beyond common sense, and the nature of the disease is that it frequently goes against common sense. Besides...most doctors have absolutely no idea on how to handle those with EDs and there is absolutely NO GUARANTEE they would have advised any differently. However...it would have been great to see a responsible disclaimer from Kimmer regarding that very thing.

Ahhh...outrage. We are "equal opportunity outraged" by the advice she gives out... period. Free or for $60 a pop, its all the same to those of us who think it is irresponsible and dangerous. I have personally said repeatedly that her plan *as written* in its "official" form, both here on this forum, and what I understand to be on her website is not in question. It is the tweaks, the personal advice, the "unwritten" plan that is of such concern.

BTW...Netrition rocks! I love that they have so much available, and as I reach different stages in my journey I will take advantage of more and more. What people find personally irresponsible is that someone would spend so much time promoting "Frankenfoods" as a WOE all within itself. Bad advice, period. Advice that took me backwards in my journey recently because I figured "Hey, if it worked for him, it must be fine" - Wrong! But... I love having so many different products available to me and the fact that they provide this awesome board where I can get true guidance to help me in the choices I make as I figure this all out - Now THAT is taking responsibility.

[rimom1969]

Verns - I have been totally quiet after all 66 pages, just reading and comprehending. But you might want to go look at the "Ask Kimmer" thread or try to look at older threads that she had when she was here. Then you and others might see what we are talking about. I have been here for a couple years and remember all the advice Kimmer gave on the ML and remember thinking that what she was saying was at times dangerous.

I am glad that Kimkins worked for you and that you were truely sensible about what was going in (and out) of your body. But many were, and are, looking for the "magic pill" and will listen to any and all advice, no matter how safe it may or may not be. I would rather ask Allie, Stews, JackieLBrown, Julia, or many of the other awesome posters for safe, sensible advice than follow someone who backed extremely low calories, use of laxatives, or fasting. To me, that isn't safe. But I am glad that you worked the program to make it work for you. Good luck!

[beautifulme]

Originally Posted by vernswifevickie

For what it's worth, I am doing kimkins, I am a member of the kimkins site, I do not have an eating disorder, I am not starving myself, my teeth are not falling out, I am not taking laxitives on a regular basis, I eat low fat protein and low glycemic veggies, I drink at least 64oz of water a day, a couple of cups of coffee, a couple of diet sodas, i take my vitamins, I work out 3 times a week at curves, and walk between 1 and 3 miles a day. I have not seen the crazy advice being offered on the kimkins site that so many of you claim is being offered there. The times I've seen laxatives discussed it's been in the context of constipation...not as an aid to weightloss. Dr Atkins advocated the use of laxatives in his 1972 plan as well. Yes, there are those who fast on a regular basis, I'm not one of them. I have also known many people in my life who fast regularly...some for weight loss purposes and some for religious purposes. I knew a pastor who fasted for40 days and he didn't die or have any long term health issues from it.

What I see alot on this thread is kimmer's advice being taken out of context and eggagerated (sp?). I find it heartbreaking that there are so many with eating disorders but kimmer didn't cause any of you to have an eating disorder and I would think that someone with a history of ED would need to consult with his/her physician before starting any weightloss plan.

Ok...having said all of that...my question to you all is....how is it that this thread exists on a site hosted by a company that sells the "frankenfoods" that Jimmy Moore is being criticized for endorsing, has an entire section dedicated to supplying the kimkins plan at no charge and yet nobody is outraged about THIS site? Don't get me wrong...i don't have a problem with the kimkins plan or with netrition...I just find it ironic that the outrage only centers around the kimkins site where you have to pay to get the info but nobody seems to be bothered by the fact that it's all available here for free.

UHHHHh..why we would be bothered that this site is FREE.That does not make ANY sense.
If people would have taken the time to research their diet then they would have found this wonderful,FREE, site on their own instead of spending money on a site that may be filled with FICTIONAL characters.
I don't think that most people have a problem with "frankenfoods"..Only when a person(Jimmy Moore) is claiming to be on Kimkins but openly promoting the products.
netrition is a wonderful place.I can find everything I need there when I do plan on eating some yummy baked goods.
Wish ya well......

[mermaid]

Laurie, I don't think there is anything wrong with learning portion control, even with lettuce. For me, too much lettuce is a problem, especially since I am diabetic. I have to have my salads in a small bowl because a big bowl does cause a blood sugar spike. Dr. Bernstein, who advocates low-carb for diabetics, also warns against eating too much lettuce.

[cleochatra]

For some it's not about the diet, but the validity of the originator of the plan and questionable circumstances.

It's like Kevin Trudeau. Does anyone believe what he sells anymore? And yet a thread about him might focus on two or three things: Press, his actions and history, and his plan(s). Reading a hypothetical thread shows which is the focus according to what each person discusses. And yet all exist as a single, on-going discussion. That's the beauty and complexity of discussion groups.

No one hates anyone, wants anyone's body bits to fall off or to die. Everyone wants some accountability. That's important. It moves us forward.

And where is the accountability? Time will tell and is objective, in sometimes the most cruel of ways. And sometimes not. Time will tell.

As an aside, anyone who feels they have been ripped off can also file a report at ripoffreport.com. It is an online, not-for-profit (I believe) advocacy group where people can air grievances 'publically' concerning unscrupulous businesses or practices therein. I know I check that site when researching companies in addition to other sources. The company can also form a rebuttal regarding allegations, so it is a good forum from my experience there.

[HevinMonkey]

Originally Posted by mermaid

BTW, when I was on Atkins in the 90's, eating about 3,000 calories a day (losing 3+ lbs per week) I felt like passing out many times, had heart palpitations, and I felt out of breath a lot. It was a scary. Then I realized that I needed more potassium and other minerals, and when I started taking those supplements those problems disappeared. My point: You all act like Atkins doesn't cause any problems at all for anyone, and really it does sometimes because everyone is different.

Dr. Atkins also took the responsibility to make people aware of that potential in advance. I cannot say this as fact, so I will not, but I myself have yet to run across anywhere that Kimmer warned anybody about any of the dangers associated with many of the clearly dangerous things she was telling people to do. Its all in the issue of responsiblity and Dr. Atkins clearly took his.

[mermaid]

Hevonmonkey, yes that's true. Kimmer does need to warn people about the dangers of any low carb diet.

[cleochatra]

mermaid-- Coming from a viewpoint where you are, I can certainly understand that. Basically, you're on a thread on a board where Kimmers is the discussion and we're showing some very real concerns about this plan. It's natura