Why the fascination with Kimmer?

[rightnow]

Originally Posted by Cutie

i totally am guilty of things i regret that helped her get this far...and i've spent the last four months trying to deal with it. i've identified things...i've accepted them...i've taken responsibility for things...i've apologized to other people and asked them for forgiveness...now if only i could forgive myself.

You know, a dozen years ago, I got involved in a field of study (unrelated to food) that I was utterly fascinated with. I had the good fortune to meet some of the incredibly few 'legitimate, credentialed, experienced' people in the field. Literally millions of people wanted to meet them, as there was coverage in everything from people to nightline to documentary and book form, but I was so dedicated that they took me seriously and I spent time with a number of them in personal training and I read everything I could both scientific and commercial.

Then, it was '95, and the internet was exploding. I'd just married and gotten pregnant and moved across the country, didn't have a new job yet so had some time, and taught myself HTML and graphic design, I already did desktop databasing (decade in bizMgmt & s/w training) and ended up with a web design business. I helped these people build websites and I did *enormous* amounts of answering email for them, posting on message boards for them, and doing everything I could to help get them media. Eventually I was working like 80 hours a week FREE 'for the cause', they were making from 5 to 50K a month in part thanks to my efforts that amounted to recruiting for the gurus via internet.

They didn't follow up much with most their own buyers, so I did tons of work to support the after-sales, since those people came through me and expected that, it seemed; nobody else was doing it, and I felt kinda responsible, so I did. When I had an infant, my husband wasn't working, and I was ill, I asked for $20/mo to reimburse the chat room I was paying for 'for' their buyers and new people I was bringing to them, and they couldn't get around to that. That was not what changed me, but it was what made my husband freak out enough that I was finally forced to reconsider the situation. By the time my further studies had better educated me, and meeting legit scientists in a couple areas of the world who spent time talking with me about it helped a lot, and others in the field had opened my eyes to the fact that these people were nothing like my starry-eyed pedestal-assumptions, and if anything had led me down a dark road in the wrong direction (in my opinion; others, of course, still think they are gods), it was too late.

By then, they were whole celebrity personalities in that particular field, although they had already been a bit, but my daily defense of them and promotion of them against competition and alternatives and getting buyers and so on did matter a lot, at least on the internet. When I quit, I'd made them collectively over a million dollars via my stuff not counting the follow on. By then, thousands of people had been sucked into believing everything they said because I personally had been so convincing in my own internet writing that I'd led them there.

But due to being on the backstage-side myself, I had heard years of contradictory stories and lies and CYAs and revisions of history to educate me. All the public knew was the seamless marketing front that had been gradually developed to present to the world. Not only is it "On the internet, nobody knows you're a dog," but it's also, "On the internet, nobody knows what you or your competitor really said 5 minutes ago," if you're the one presenting history, bios, transcripts, etc.

I tried to be semi-diplomatic and not diss them publicly, but to make it clear to the zillions of people who had "followed me to their door" that well, my perspective had changed, and that in fact I had come to believe, and to KNOW after collecting accounts from everyone many times over the years, that there were different 'facts' worth considering which didn't support handing them thousands of dollars for something that to this day, 12 years later, I have zero indication they are capable of ever having provided a single person, at least as far as the "presentation and claims" that were made for sales purposes when all this began (my own later VERY public dissing of things I felt were wrong gradually has revised 'public claims' to be 'sane' and legally protectable -- though private talk is no diff than it ever was).

Funny because zillions of people who trusted me enough on the internet to believe me about them, once they found that guru, had no interest in thinking for themselves or studying further or considering other sources. Instead, a good chunk of people said to me, "Oh my god. You betray your own." Or, "What credentials have YOU got to contradict them?" (...a brain?...) or whatever. That entire field has been greatly influenced by their complete dominance of media in every form, which similar to some fields of study, now has so much deliberate mis/dis information that before you can tell anybody new what is real, you have to de-indoctrinate them about tons of crap, and you'll never succeed, and when their cash flow slows down they literally "reinvent" something new in their history for new books and stories and media and more. At this point, I find the entire situation utterly nauseating.

And it was me that built that internet mass-doorway to them to start with, although long ago I moved on from that. And the great irony is that the field has similar issues to this: the 'experts' cannot demonstrate any competence in their alleged expertise, and go to creative lengths to avoid it and make excuses why not, all while they diss the genuinely few people who work hard, altruistically, and really rock at it -- but don't make anywhere NEAR the extravagant claims or marketing efforts.

Now I've spent the last five years working my ass off on my own time, free, to build free webstuff that provides real info, that gives free options to people that don't cost money, to provide alternative views, to talk with people in email and forums about what's real or encourage them or whatever. A great deal of this is motivated by sheer guilt on my part. I helped create a monster basically, and it became "The Establishment"(tm). There is not much more I can do now. I was just as sucked in as anybody else was.

I bore you with this just to let you know that I know how you feel, though I have an even more extreme case than you've all got combined. ;-)

The reality is that we do what we think is best at the time. If later we have cause to change our mind, then we do something else.

People who are ready for Kimkins will find it, and people who are ready for something that won't destroy their health or feed into potential or existing eating disorders will find something else. I know that is fatalistic, but one hopes that spirit will lead people to find the right answers when it is right for them.

[CarolynF]

Nady: Great story..Kids do dumb things in highschool to lose weight. Glad you woke up.

Honestly, I was lucky my Mom was in WWers and really helped me to learn about balanced meals, so I was lucky. I liked food too much to stop eating it and hated throwing up, so bingeing/purging wasn't even on my radar screen..

But, I guess I've just been a yo yo dieter since the age of 18..but never had a REAL weight problem until I was 32 and got pregnant..gained up to 195...lost, got pregnant again, got down to 118 on WWers..Then gained up to 195 (with no baby..LOL)..

I am so grateful to Dr. A. for the big wakeup call that I cannot eat bad carbs..I never knew that before I read his book in 2001. Now I have a plan that "works" for me...and I'm so grateful..to him and all of you great peeps..

Right Now: That was a very powerful post..Thanks.

[emily1965]

I guess I’ll go next. I’ve talked about parts of my history on the boards before, but never all of it.

I was set up for an ED really early in life by my family. My mother and some doctor started me on diet pills at the age of 3. I can remember her taking me into the doc every Friday afternoon, him weighing me, then giving my mother enough diet pills for the next week in a little yellow envelope. I clearly remember that on Fridays, she wouldn’t let me eat until after my doctor appointment and one day, she caught me in the bathroom drinking water and had an absolute meltdown screaming about how the water was going to make me weigh heavier at the doctor visit. I weighed over 100 pounds when I started kindergarten.

During my elementary years, my mother continued her efforts in taking weight off of me. Her usual method was starvation. She would go days and days of controlling every bite that went into my mouth (the usual “diet” was dry oatmeal with saccharin tablets for breakfast and boiled chicken breast and canned tomatoes for lunch and dinner). This would usually last for several days, either ending with her having a screaming fit when catching me eating something “off plan” and telling me how I’d ruined everything or she’d simply get sidetracked with other stuff and suddenly begin filling my plate to overflowing with the usual floured/fried meat, mashed potatoes, gravy, buttered corn. My father was a horribly abusive man and he would call me vile names in connection with my weight, usually during mealtimes. My mother would back him up and would often blame me “for putting him in a bad mood” when he would beat her. She had a stack of calorie counting books that I would spend hours pouring over and was expected to know the calorie counts of nearly everything. She would quiz me during the starvation diets. I weighed 262 when I started 6th grade.

During my early teens, I had taken over and was starving myself voluntarily, sometimes going as long as 3 weeks consuming nothing but diet Coke and lettuce. My mother would bribe me with stuff for weight loss. By the time I started 9th grade, I was up to 320. My parents divorced when I was 16. Just after I turned 17, my mother heard about stomach stapling surgery from someone at work who told her that her insurance would pay for it. She made me an appointment with the surgeon, then told me I was having surgery. A week later, I was in the hospital. She made me keep the surgery a secret from my friends and family (even my Grandma), because she thought that having surgery was something I should be ashamed of and she wanted me to pretend I had lost the weight “on my own”.

By the time I graduated, I weighed 170 pounds and was a full blown bulimic. I would binge and puke sometimes as much as a dozen times a day. I can still remember the euphoria that I felt while bent over the toilet getting rid of whatever food I had just eaten. I felt powerful.

Between surgery, binging and purging, I managed to keep my weight right around 170 for 4 years, then I got married and within a year had regained over 100 pounds. Throughout adulthood, I continued to binge and purge regularly, but not nearly as often as I did during that 4 year period of time. By the time I married my second husband, I was at an all time high of 336.

While married to my second husband, I discovered diet pills. I started out with Redux, then when it was taken off the market (with Phen/Fen), I switched to Fastin. I thought the drugs were great because they helped me stay under 600 calories a day, but sometimes as low as 300. My doctor was thrilled. When I got down to 200, I got pregnant and was up to 300 by the time I had the baby. Unknown to me until I was almost through my pregnancy, my husband was cheating. It all eventually came out that he actually had a “fat fetish” and when I was approaching 200, he started an affair with a woman who weighed 450 pounds. After I had the baby, I left. Over the next year or so, I got my weight back down to 240 through basic starvation. I would go as long as I could without eating, then eat some tiny little bit of something to keep me going. Sometimes, I’d binge and purge.

In May of 2002, I discovered Atkins. Initially, I heard about a diet where you could eat all the meat and cheese you wanted. It caused kidney damage, but the weight came off quickly. The idea of kidney damage never phased me. I bought the Atkins book, learned the truth and was sold. I was eating real food. I was not starving. I was losing weight. I was not obsessing about food. I was not binging. I was not purging. I was posting to the boards regularly and I felt good about myself. For the first time in my life, I had a good relationship with food. I finally felt normal. I quickly went from the 240’s to 181, then stalled. I remember posting up and asking about stalling and about being in ketosis but not losing. Kimmer came into that thread and accused me of lying about what I was eating. Seems like that was about the time the attitude of the boards shifted from healthy Atkins to Kimmer’s starvation plan. I began restricting again and with the restricting, came the binging. I maintained a weight of 190 for the next couple of years, but pulled away from posting on the ML. I felt ashamed that I couldn’t starve myself like so many others on the boards were doing at that time.

3 years ago, my thyroid conked out on me and I began putting on large amounts of weight with every binge. My weight was spiraling out of control. I’d do a meat and egg fast for a couple of days, binge for a few days, do a very low cal Atkins for a few days, binge for a few. 2 years ago, I went through some really devastating personal stuff and ended up fasting for 22 days. I posted about it and most people showed concern and encouraged me to eat. Kimmer PM’d me and told me how great of a job I was doing and encouraged me to keep going. I wasn’t fasting to lose weight. I was fasting because I was emotionally distraught.


So here I am today, back at 300 pounds. I still binge, but almost never purge. I still do severe restriction from time to time and a binge/guilt always follows.

[aloise]

after reading this thread, I read a few of the blogs that Jimmy Moore wrote. I never did Kimmers, but I believe the women here that have actually done the diet, asked questions, and been a member of Kimkins.

based on what they've said, i think that what Jimmy Moore has written about the diet is ... misleading (to say the least).

example, an excerpt from his blog for Tuesday, June 19, 2007, "Make Up Your Mind, Does Low-Carb Make Calories Go Up Or Down?":

MAKE UP YOUR MIND! Does low-carb make calories go up or down?

Perhaps Dana Carpender's latest book Every Calorie Counts should be called Every Calorie AND CARB Counts because both do matter even when you aren't purposefully cutting calories to an artificial number.

However, let's not forget the common denominator between the various versions of livin' la vida low-carb is they are all LOW IN CARBOHYDRATE. Duh, that's why we call it "low-carb." Isn't that what is MOST important regarding a healthy diet? Would any low-carb diet supporter argue this point with me?

I will say this--Kimkins is only slightly lower in fat than Atkins, but I'm not eating that much less fat now than I did three years ago. The whole purpose of decreasing fat on Kimkins is to simply lower the calories naturally, not through some mandated dictates to keep calories at an arbitrary number. I personally wouldn't go for that.

Instead, I simply eat when I'm hungry and I get to enjoy healthy sources of protein to keep my hunger satisfied for hours which results in weight loss. Since I've been on this plan for the past two weeks, my appetite has decreased dramatically just as it did when I was on the Atkins diet in 2004. That's what low-carb is SUPPOSED to do.

By the way, here's something for the opponents of Kimkins to ponder. Isn't reducing calorie intake EXACTLY what the great low-carb expert Dr. Michael Eades from Protein Power was advocating when he promoted the intermittent fast last year? You might want to go back and re-read what Dr. Eades said about skipping meals even on days he wasn't fasting because he just wasn't hungry. This is a highly-respected low-carb expert saying this, but I don't remember people jumping all over him for not eating enough calories!

The bottom line is this--I'm not counting my calories, I'm eating when I get hungry, I'm enjoying as much food as I desire to eat when I want to eat it, and--HERE'S THE BEST PART--I'm LOSING weight again. Kimkins has gotten me refocused at a time when I took my eye of the ball even slightly. It feels good to be this in tune with what is happening in my diet again and I've not had this much freedom in my eating habits in a while.

After my torrid start, losing 18 pounds in the first week, my weight loss slowed down a bit this second week--3 pounds lost. But there's an asterisk beside that total because I had an inadvertent screw-up when I ordered a broccoli and cheese soup while dining out with a friend last Thursday. It seems that soup had some major hidden carbs and it showed up as a 5-pound weight gain the next morning. EEEK!

But I got right back on K/E and lost that gain within three days. It was a lesson learned to always remain vigilant and focused on the plan you have chosen when you are losing weight. You'll be glad you did while enjoying the fruits of your faithfulness. That's what I'm gonna do to continue this 21-pound weight loss over the past two weeks until I reach my 50-pound weight loss goal! And I'll be doing it in very short order because of my healthy Kimkins low-carb diet.

this doesn't sound like the same diet! Was Jimmy ever over on the forums at Kimkins asking questions?

[CarolynF]

Emily..Wow..what a story..Hugs to you. I'm glad you have never given up and are still here. Weight is a lifelong battle for many of us and all the issues that go with it..I know you can do it in a healthy way this time!!!!

[rightnow]

Maybe I am wrongly defending him, but perhaps Jimmy has felt that his promotion of lowcarb products and plans is his way of supporting the community. A good deal of low carb options do exist solely because of commercialism. If it weren't for someone making money off it, we wouldn't have ever seen a number of lowcarb ingredients (as well as foods) that greatly improve the variety of options for the eating plan. Perhaps he has felt that an enthusiastic support for most anything 'in the LC field' was part of helping keep it alive and funded.

Or not. I mean, maybe he's a mercenary as some suggest, I don't know him personally, I only know that when I began blogging he'd been doing so for awhile and really seemed to have put a whole lot of genuine work into it.

Edited to add: In celebration of this unbelievable thread, I've added one of my favorite quotes to the bottom of my new sig.

[heather2578]

Wow Emily

[quiggley]

Originally Posted by sallyk

Wow, what you say is probably true for a lot of us. Esp. the part of someone coming into the room heavier.

I posted this below on my Journal a few minutes ago and like I said here some of us are so use to that place that our Friends, Family have stuck us that it is hard to break out of especially when most want you back there so they look better LOL

to everyone I know for me this has always been more than about weight because what I see when I look at Myself makes me my worst enemy.



When I went to my reunion last month I got the comments from My Family about the weigh gain etc but you know what for the most part they just expected it because they were all waiting for me to fail, because that is my place in that Family to be the one they can hold up as a warning as in "hey I may have gained a little weight but I do not look like Jann" So when I got thinner than a lot of them they did not know how to react to me and they actually had to look at themselves so my being heavier yay for them.

[Nady]

Emily
~~~N

[Carolina Rose]

Originally Posted by aloise

Was Jimmy ever over on the forums at Kimkins asking questions?

He's all over the forums at Kimkins. Jumps in and "answers" for people all the time. I get the feeling sometimes that he'd love to take over if Kimmer would let him.

And what gets me is ... he's not really even doing Kimkins or KE! Not *correctly* anyway. But he leads people to think his current success is solely from Kimkins (which convinces more people to join, of course).

Tucked away in the comment section, he admitted on his own blog: “As for feeling the need to be “on plan,” actually I’m not perfectly on the Kimkins plan. But I use it as a basic template for my diet with a few Jimmyfications that I’ve learned along the way will work for me.

This includes eating sugar-free pickles, mayo for my salmon salad, ChocoPerfection chocolate, low-carb bread, low-carb wraps, sugar-free Jello, cinnamon and Splenda, yogurt–pretty much WHATEVER low-carb foods I want to supplement my diet.

In other words, it’s MY diet since I’ve customized it for ME. I long ago removed the grains, starchy carbs, and sugars from my diet and I’m better because of it.”

[Cutie]

THANKS everyone for your encouragement and support...it means SO much to me!

i've just been really hard on myself 'cause like many others here, i have a history of ED...for 15 years, severe to the point of medical intervention. for me, it is a HUGE personal triumph to have lost this last 110 lbs. without ONE instance of ED behavior...no binging/purging, ubersevere calorie restriction, manic hours of exercising, no obsessive calorie counting and best of all, no having to lie to everyone all around me about what i supposedly have already eaten for the day, etc. anyway...i was SO vigiliant about being "on guard," trying to protect me from myself, i just feel bad that i didn't "do more" to help others who were/are falling into that pit. i just feel like "of all people, i should have seen it for what it really was."

i do feel better now...thanks to you all...you've made me see some things from a "bigger perspective" and i think i might "just" be able to finally turn an important corner in this healing process.

appreciate you all!

[aloise]

Originally Posted by Carolina Rose

He's all over the forums at Kimkins. Jumps in and "answers" for people all the time. I get the feeling sometimes that he'd love to take over if Kimmer would let him.

And what gets me is ... he's not really even doing Kimkins or KE! Not *correctly* anyway. But he leads people to think his current success is solely from Kimkins (which convinces more people to join, of course).

Tucked away in the comment section, he admitted on his own blog: “As for feeling the need to be “on plan,” actually I’m not perfectly on the Kimkins plan. But I use it as a basic template for my diet with a few Jimmyfications that I’ve learned along the way will work for me.

This includes eating sugar-free pickles, mayo for my salmon salad, ChocoPerfection chocolate, low-carb bread, low-carb wraps, sugar-free Jello, cinnamon and Splenda, yogurt–pretty much WHATEVER low-carb foods I want to supplement my diet.

In other words, it’s MY diet since I’ve customized it for ME. I long ago removed the grains, starchy carbs, and sugars from my diet and I’m better because of it.”

ok... so, even he says he is not following Kimkin's plan to the letter.

He also refers in a negative way to people using laxatives on other plans. What does he say when Kimmer suggests this? I notice he doesn't mention the laxatives when he talks about kimkins...

[dlslds]

Emily your post touched me deeply.

Bless you you are a survivor!!!!!

[Queeny]

Copied from Slamboard:

For anyone who wants their money back at this point here is what you can to do.

Since Kimmer has everyone paypaling their payments, go to your paypal account. Open up a dispute on Kimmer. There are a few ways to get your money back and you have to check one of them. I suggest the first one.

Item dispute: I did not receive an item I purchased or the item I received is significantly not as described.

This I believe is how she has to give the money back. Those that are banned did not get what was described. The ebook has never materialized. Therefore grounds for money back. I am sure there are many other reasons to get your money back and I suggest that any of the ones banned or unhappy with her site do this right away. Contact and complain to paypal. She may even be investigated. Kimmer is really taking a huge chance not returning peoples money and it would be in her best interest to do it because the law does not look kindly on someone committing fraud to get peoples money.

[AriAnne]

Emily you are indeed a survivor. When nothing matters but being thin
is when it is an abusive obsessive compulsion and those applauding
it are part of the abuse and obsession and must be suffering as
well.

I hope your spirit finds healing from the assaults and abuse you
have suffered.

[LowcarbFan]

I have been reading this thread with great interest and this thread has taken a positive turn. I feel for everyone that has had issues with eating disorders and people that are trying to eat next to nothing to lose weight. I thought I would come out of lurking to post this link to cheri's thread on the main board. She hit the nail on the head and I thought everyone should read it.

Extreme low calorie diets may be harming you more than you know...

Back to lurking.

[lala]

My name is Delila and I have been dealing with eating disorders since I was 10 well diagnosed when I was 10 but I think much of my life has been spent there. anyways I have been overweight since I was 7 it started when my dad got sent to prison. I was always a daddy’s girl, he had always been abusive to my mom and when ever she would throw him out I left with him. Well one night he snapped and put 9 bullets into the left side of her head in front of both me (6) and my brother (5) now at that time he took my brother and me to his moms house, On the trip over there I couldn’t help but feel completely betrayed. we spent days thinking my mom was dead so I became mommy, in my heart I said I had to be there for my baby brother needless to say I lost trust in people that day and food became my only friend. I figured that food doesn't leave you ever! but what I didn't know then is food doesn't leave but what I didn’t know was that my obsession with it could kill me and WILL consume my life. anyways my aunt came with the police to get my brother and me and take us to our mother. she didn't die she is very much alive and I thank God everyday for her but she did change and I had to make up for her lack of being there. so once again the food came into play and I ate a lot! I gained lots of weight. I’m talking that when I was 8 I weighed 102lbs so I started fasting on purpose on the advise of one of my aunts I fasted and binged and purged for 1.5 years and was forced to go the doctor and be told that I was a fat little girl and that I may never have a normal life because of the weight the doctor said that he did not believe that I had eating issues just that I was lazy and greedy, so he put me on a diet, I ended up in the hospital a few weeks later and an other doctor said he believed I had an eating disorder Bulimia Nervosa was the DX at that point but my mom was like she is just a little girl and she didn’t believe it so she ignored it. So kept up my ways and at 13 was DX with severe depression and EDNOS. So they put me on meds (which I refused to take because I would gain even more weight) so I lied and learned to lie so good that I got a clear bill of health. but taht didnt stop my mom and aunts from telling me i was fat and if only you would lose the weight you would be so beautiful you should try XXX pill, or XXX diet or XXX miracle cure and i did So FASTFORWARD to 23 I learned about Low Carb eating and tried it, I had already tried everything else and thought what is it going to hurt? By the way I weighed in at 320 pounds (and yes still had EDNOS) anyways I lost 75 lbs in 4 months! wow it was working! but then my fiancé went to Iraq and I started eating to cope again! so I gained it back. I am now 25 and back down 50 lbs! I am slowly getting a grip on my food addictions. I don’t know if this whole story belongs here but I had told it in much detail before so I figured maybe if I let it out I can let it go and help my recovery. I know we can do this and we can do this together!!!!!!

[lala]

emily thank you so muc for sharing your story it has touched me so deeply!

amy- all i can say is thank you

now to go back a few pages and read what i have missed out on! man you all are quick!

[quiggley]

I think a lot of us dieted our way to being overweight. I was told by a Dr that I was severely overweight when I was 9 years old I was not in the percentile is how he put it. I was actually told to use the ayds diet candy to control my eating which if any of you remember tasted like Chocolate candy LOL

I have a Cousin that is 6 weeks older so I was always compared to her and against her I was huge so that equaled fat. I found my School ID card a couple of years ago when I was going through a box at 9 I was 5'7 and 90 pounds so see how very huge I was? I should mention that my Cousin Susan was about 70 pounds even at 13 LOL

But from that point on that was my identity and I guess I had to live up to it because hey that was my place in the world and my Family which is very dysfunctional as you can guess.

I really did not even try to diet except as a I am going to do this soon thing until I reached my 30's because I was where I was suppose to be and it just never occurred to me to be different. One thing that no one else has mentioned is sexual abuse so I will put it out there. My Mother had a Brother that raped several of My cousins, had been in Prison for raping and killing a 5 year old girl. I always considered myself lucky because except for touching me a few times I got away. But of course the damage was there I use to blame myself when I would hear of a younger cousin being abused by Him because I did not protect them and they the family said "It was a family matter" and he got away with it for years until He was killed in 82.
I have a copy of a Family photo that was taken at My Mam'ma's B'day party when I was 13 and every time I see that all I think about is my 4 year old Cousin being raped that day and as usual except for a beating by a Uncle nothing was done.


I know I hid behind my fat and to be honest I still do when I got to my lowest weight about 2 years ago all the attention from Men overwhelmed me and that along with a lot of stress going on made me hide again because I know that safe place and being there I did not have to deal with anything.

So where does this leave me now? alone, unmarried, no kids, with a Medical condition that was made worst by weight and knowing that even when I am at goal I will never look normal because all the years of abuse of my Body.

I know I have a lot of stuff I will continue to deal with as most of us do and I have never told this to anyone here. My Cousins and I have talked about it but since he was killed most of his Brothers and Sisters see him with rose colored glasses I walk away when he is discussed.

[ItsTheWooo]

Originally Posted by cleochatra

However, protein can still be broken down into sugars in the blood stream. I'd argue that fats, being the only thing which cannot be broken down into sugar, is what provides greatest satiety and staying power, especially when in conjunction with protein.

Great post, and welcome to LCF!

I agree.



1) It is untrue that our "Hungerostat" ( word) is controlled by protein. Hunger is complex, mediated by many nutrients (and feedback signals). Protein is just one of those signals.
Certainly, eating too little protein will *will* cause an insatiable type hunger... but it's not to say that the more protein you eat the less hungry you are. There is a point of diminishing returns, and actually, there is a point where eating excessive amounts of protein can stuff up things (raising glucocorticoids and insulin, blood sugar gets wonky, hunger gets out of control).

2) If there was a primary control of appetite, it would be fat, not protein. This is why atkins wrote his diet confidently enough not to include any cal restrictions... and why people have such smashing success on it.
Yet, every other diet (even high protein ones) really emphasizes the calories. Why is that? Because when you eat FIRST from fat, you become satisfied quickly and for a very, very long time. The body bases it's hunger on energy available, and with a fat based diet, energy is *always* available.