Why the fascination with Kimmer?

[desertgirl]

This is the most amazing thread I've ever seen posted at LCF. I beg admin to let it remain.

I have so much to say, as well as my own story about ED, but no time right now. I'm knee deep in the Slamboard post by Catherine's Dh. Amazing. I'm almost speechless.

But, I'd like to say that I've been on LCF since 2003. I've said, many times, that I think that many many posters here have ED and treat LC as a dieting means to become super thin. I've been poo-poo'd and ignored, but never flamed, fortunately. I think that any WOE that makes us fear food (fat, carbs, sugar, whatever) is unhealthy, mentally. I don't think that LC, when done right, is unhealthy for our bodies, but I do think that strict, unbending LC *can* be unhealthy for our minds and spirits.

I can recall the days of refusing to taste pasta I was cooking for my children. I wouldn't even put a %$$#%$ noodle in my mouth. Forget sharing a piece of my child's b-day cake.... Oh, well, I imagine many of you can relate.

I have a million examples of the above, for myself from my journey from LC to IE. And IE saved my life, I believe (thanks Denise!!!!!).

I hope that those in this thread who are coming to some difficult conclusions are able to seek, and find, help and support. I know how hard it is.

Allie, your gestaults (is that a word??) in this thread are . No offense, I've watched you post (and stayed away because I think you and I would be like oil and water ) and I'm so impressed that you've been able to face up to some difficult realizations. I've BTDT, it's hard.

More later, I need to finish that Slamboard post.

[sallyk]

Originally Posted by cqueen

I am one of them that lost their money. Did I give Kimkins a chance? Only 2 days, but I was starving. I asked for a refund and got denied. I also went through paypal and got denied. I am going to try through paypal one more time though.....

I have been a member of this board for a while now. I was here for quite sometime and I lost my weight basically doing Atkins with a little of my own spin. After I lost weight I slowly quit coming here. Not many people talked or replied to me anyways so wasn't missed.I feel stupid because I should have come to these boards first. I knew she had been on these boards and I knew I could find out what it was all about. I got caught up in the hype of losing the weight that I went blind and fell in.

Mostly what I am disappointed about is this: The website in my opinion doesn't offer anything except a chat forum. I need more details then what was on that website. I don't care about sucess stories because I have never believed them anyways. Except Kimmer because like I have said before I had spoke to her in here and everyone was always following her advice.

I really don't care about the pictures anymore. That is something she has to live with and obviously she has no conscious. That's her problem.

Well, that's my $60 worth anyways.

I have been meaning to post about this. I read all posts when I am subscribed to a thread. I post sometimes, too. It is like that. You post something, that is important enough to say, but no one says or responds. That is how these boards are. Sometimes it is almost "clicky". Please don't take it personally. I respond to things that hit a note with me, just like yours did this time. Some people get responded to, just because of who they are, from other posts. I don't really know, but do know I don't, or can't respond to everything. There are some people who use to spend time on these boards, who I swear if they were part of the thread, everyone was recognized. But they had to leave, because they found they spent too much time on the boards. I use to welcome everyone. Just don't have the time, so I may once in a while do that now-a-days. I lurk now, more than post. But your posts are important. We are all friends here, well for the most part.

[LaurieRobo]

Originally Posted by jayed

I've debated about posting this. But seeing so many other brave people tell their story, I feel compelled to share mine.

I am a member of kimmer's site and have been on her plan since early February. I started the boot camp plan about 2 weeks in and was averaging under 400 calories a day. And feeling extremely guilty if I hit 400+. I was also exercising 5-6 days a week, which I continue to do.

Did I lose a lot of weight? Sure. But I also started binging. Again. I came to kimkins with a history of bulimia with anorexic tendencies, so you would think I would have known better. But I did it anyway. I dealt with the binging by exercising even more, restricting even more, purging, laxatives. It's not pretty. But I am having a very hard time walking away. I have slowly upped my calories to between 500 and 800. I know that's still very low but I am terrified to go higher.

I don't know that I have any room to blame Kimmer, as I have done this to myself. But I really wish I would have realized 6 months ago how far I would backslide into my old dangerous habits. I probably should have known.

Julie

Julie,

Thank you for sharing.... Good job slowly upping your calories - it may take time but you will get there - Keep at it!

[The Bunnell Farm]

The newest Jimmy Moore Podcast just now has indicated that soon(probably Monday) the live Kimmer from Kimkins podcast interview show will be taking place. He is inviting questions from everybody and has stated that she has agreed to field any and all questions asked. I for one am looking forward to this. I don't think for a minute that this is going to solve everything but it is a step in the right direction. We will just have to hope that the person we are hearing is in fact Kimmer!

[mycattaz]

I was bulimic after having gastric stampling done in 1983, I went for over a year, binging and plurging, up to 15 times a day , and taking laxitives everyday..... after alittle over a year of doing this my stomach colapes they had to do emergency surgery, go in and set my stomach back....

after all of this my teeth began to cumble and rot.... to this day I have only 12 teeth in my mouth... and some of them have been totally rebuilt.... accourding to the dentist I need around 9,000 dollars to fix my mouth, and of course I can't afford that.....

I went thur one year of counceling and also went to OA.... to this day I still have to be careful not to get into the same rut I was before.....

Oh, I didn't mention, I have alot of trouble with my esphogus..... and will always have that

My daughter also went alittle over a year dealing with this I did everything I could get her to stop.... and she too has teeth falling out of her mouth, and her esphogus is damage has a small tear in it that the doctors told her if she plurge anymore, she could tear it and bleed to death...

Tooter, I use to know a girl that looks alot like you, I went to OA with her, she was anorexic and had been in and out of hospitals that dealt with anorexia....we were close and buddies, we lost track of each other over the years....

[LaurieRobo]

Originally Posted by mermaid

Wild conjecture and witch hunts are ugly. Honesty and openness are healing.

It has been healing... I'm crying and cringing on the poster that closet binged YIKES that was so me in my younger years and that brings up SOOO many feelings - I thought were gone.... HMMM....

to everyone....

and MUM... thanks for changing your Avitar LOL!!!

[dogsrus]

Coming out of lurkdom. I have been following this thread for several days now. In the beginning it was out of courisoty (sp) then because it was more like a train wreck (just couldn't advert my eyes) all the drama. now it has morphed into a very good support group for ones that have ED or boarderline ED. Hopefully someone on the verge of an ED will read this part of the thread and start questioning what type of eating plan they are useing.
Even if Kimmr/Heidi never comes clean one way or the other something good has come out of this. The posters on this thread are very caring people. I don't post very much just my 2 cents worth. Going back to lurkville.

[mermaid]

I was forgetting until now that I was bulimic as a teenager and young adult. So glad I didn't carry it to extremes and lose my teeth or need surgery. I never even got skinny from it, so jeez, what was the point? One day I just decided to never do it again, and it was hard, but I left it behind. I just remember feeling so out of place and insecure and unsupported in the world, which is what I think led to such a sick thing. My heart goes out to you who are still struggling with it. I am really remembering that lost feeling and how sad it is.

[HevinMonkey]

Originally Posted by mermaid

Wild conjecture and witch hunts are ugly. Honesty and openness are healing.

I totally agree, and still contend there was never a witch hunt by anyone here. The clearly dangerous advice that was so often given by the Kimmer obviously struck a deeply painful chord in many people here - probably scared them to pieces if it was dredging up ED behaviours. They were never given an opportunity to talk about what that was doing to them at the time as there appeared to be an anti "anti-Kimkins" mentality at that time. They couldn't share their stories or warn others without being slammed by Kimmer or her followers. Now that controversy has risen up due to her continued deception and mystery act - which is just stupid at this point- these people with all these feelings stuffed inside themselves were FINALLY given a voice. Alot of them might not have even been able to put their fingers on exactly what it was that made them so passionate about this, but the questions that were raised here were -ARE-still very valid - regardless of where the drive for the truth comes from. It's just that right now who could care less about Kimmer when there are very real people showing much more than their face, they are showing their hearts, just so they can offer hope and help to others.
Addtionally, I will easily admit there has been SOME wild conjecture, but nothing that Kimmer did not open herself to with this act of hers - and by far there has been less conjecture than valid points and facts.

[cleochatra]

Originally Posted by The Bunnell Farm

The newest Jimmy Moore Podcast just now has indicated that soon(probably Monday) the live Kimmer from Kimkins podcast interview show will be taking place. He is inviting questions from everybody and has stated that she has agreed to field any and all questions asked. I for one am looking forward to this. I don't think for a minute that this is going to solve everything but it is a step in the right direction. We will just have to hope that the person we are hearing is in fact Kimmer!

Jimmy Moore is a sell-out. He stopped espousing healthful, organic low-carb living a long time ago and has become a media ho. I'm probably the only one who feels that way, but as soon as you start taking endorsements, you can very easily start selling out.

I look at people like Sugar-Free Sheila, who is being true to herself and to this way of eating. She is the kind of person I aspire to be like. Not living La Greeda Loco.

Maybe someday he'll realize what he's doing and what he looks like to others, but I'm not holding out hope.

[jayed]

It's been amazing to see how this thread has morphed. I'm so thankful for all the support shown to everyone here. Although it was hard for me to post, I feel so much better. It has really made me realize what road I have been on. Luckily it hasn't been that long and I want to stop this slide now. So thanks to everyone because I'm not trying to kid myself anymore.

[cleochatra]

{{{{{jayed}}}}}}

[NDSunflowers]

OK, de-lurking to confess and comment...

Confession:
I joined LCF specifically because of the free Kimkins info you can find here. I saw the WW at the market, bought it, read it and thought "Wow! What a great weightloss springboard!" It also seemed like a way to combine some of what I had read in the You: On a Diet book with Atkins. Have been looking for a way to mesh the info from that book with Atkins. Originally, it seemed the kimkins plan had it all figured out.

My intent was never to do it long-term. Just to use it to get back into weightloss mode (body and frame of mind-wise). I did K/E for 5 days, transitioned to kimkins after that, and lost about 7 pounds in a week. I was stunned. I was also getting a little bored with the food choices (missing my beloved Atkins woe and allowed foods like cheese.) However, I don't have too much of a problem with the plan as written. Being new to LCF (and choosing not to fork over $60 for a site who's plan I could find for free here) I have never had any contact with kimmer. So I was never given advice to lower my cals, take mom, etc... (BTW, my cals were around 1000 most days - 800ish was the lowest I ever got to while doing K/E). And, as written, the plan (other than K/E... which, as written, to do only for 3-5 days - NOT until goal as some even on this board are doing) is very similar to '72 Atkins and other plans out there.

What I've found that kimkins did for me was make me very conscious of everything I was eating. Something I think I was lacking and which was hindering my weightloss. I thought I could just mentally keep track, but have since found that fitday is a great help. Am I planning on doing kimkins until goal? No. I have now transitioned to Atkins induction with a careful eye on keeping calories moderate (not ultra low) and watching my fat and dairy intake. I think kimkins helped me wake up about that. So, I don't think the plan, as written, is all bad. Do I think people can go off the deep end and take it to extremes? Definitely. (But as many have pointed out here, personal responsibility is essential.)

Now the commenting part:

First, let me say "wow!" I started reading this thread about a week ago and it sure is hard to keep up with - SO MANY posts all the time! But what a great amount of good info (lately) and help, both informational and emotional, this thread has offered. It's why I finally decided I needed to put in my 2¢.

This quote from SallyK struck a chord with me:

And I too, sometimes will read advice from someone, then look at their stats and it will say they have lost 5 pounds and have been a member for years. I then question why they feel their advice is good, when apparently it isn't working for them, that is bad, I know.

I remember thinking when I joined LCF not so very long ago... "I wonder if I should even bother to post my knowledge. People are going to look at my stats and join date and blow me off." But truthfully, some of us who have been LC'ing for several years have a wealth of information that we've gathered. I have belonged to another board for several years and have learned a great deal over those years. I've also borne 2 children over those years, so my weight has gone down, up (pg #1), down, stablilized, up (pg#2), and now is starting back down again. My starting stats have changed throughout the years. I guess my point is, just because someone is new to a board or his/her stats look like they aren't trying, they may have been doing this woe for quite a while and are very knowledgeable. I can see where it would be easy to dismiss someone based on their stats (I'm sure I have too), but I encourage everyone to try not to, and first listen to what they have to say and determine for yourself if they are worth listening to or not.

And now a comment about this from CarolynF:

Well, I doubt if any kid in highschool would pay the $60 to join the Kimkins site

You're probably right. They wouldn't pay the money. They know how to surf the web (better than most of us, probably) and find what they need for free. Heck - they can get it here at LCF like I did. The plan, as written, isn't the problem. It's the advice that's given on the kimkins site (either by kimmer herself in posts or pm's or whatever) or by other posters to lower calories, take mom, stay on K/E, whatever, that can cause real danger. Do I think that kimkins is a plan that should be followed by a growing teenager? HECK NO. But what's to stop them when the info is out there for free? I just hope that the people posting about kimkins on LCF remember that for every member they see, there may be dozens of kids out there lurking and reading the advice they are giving.

And to Jayed:

I just cannot believe I am back here.

I have a friend who is a foster mom to kids who have parents in rehab. When they're done with rehab, the kids go back to the parents. She told me, statistically, on average it takes 6 trips to rehab before it sticks. IMHO, ED's are just as addictive as drugs. I'm sure this is why you're back where you are. I do truly hope you're not kicking yourself over it, though. It's an addiction, and sounds like you would benefit greatly from counseling. I wish you all the best as you work on getting past what you're going through again. I believe you're headed in the right direction because you are aware of the problem. Many, many, to you!

Finally, to everyone else: Thank you, thank you for being so open and honest about your lives and experiences. (And for your diligence in digging up info on kimmer - if all this comes out as true, she does need to be stopped). It's been an eye-opener reading this thread.

[AllieCat0817]

Yall RAWK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Cleo thanks for coming forward with what you said-- I did used to be concerned about your cals but you can't really SAY that to people when they are in it. YAY!

Thanks to you guys who didn't DOG ME OUT for my
xxx either.

This thread is just the daggone BOMB. I think that is why the mods let it stay- maybe they knew some good stuff would come from it.

wooHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

[RockyMtnAngelEyes]

Originally Posted by jayed

It's been amazing to see how this thread has morphed. I'm so thankful for all the support shown to everyone here. Although it was hard for me to post, I feel so much better. It has really made me realize what road I have been on. Luckily it hasn't been that long and I want to stop this slide now. So thanks to everyone because I'm not trying to kid myself anymore.

[Olivia92]

Originally Posted by Tooter

An Anorexic also lies. They have to, to cover up what they are actually doing.

They also have to "hide". Of coarse I couldn't hide from my family and friends, but I would "Hide" by wearing baggy clothes so no one could tell how thin I actually was. Why? Because again, I didn't want someone pointing out that what I was doing was wrong or unhealthy.

You have this unrealist view of being "Thin" and in control. Everything would be "Perfect" if you just stay in "control". You want "perfection". That veiw gets challenged if someone trys to "wake you up" from it. So, deep down....You know what you are doing is wrong, but you lie to yourself and everyone else. You spend most of your energy trying to keep that "view" in your mind and you refuse to look at anything else.

Now, if this is the case with Kimmer. It could be the very reason why she has NEVER met anyone.

I think we can all agree that her age is 49. That's almost 50. Do you have any idea what a woman that age would look like by eating the way she does? (if she does). She would get to the point of actually looking OLDER then what she really is. Your body ain't gonna bounce back from "abuse" like it would if you were younger.

Even if she did it a "healthy" way, she wouldn't look as young as the pictures she posted. Even if she had plastic surgery or used great skin care. That just doesn't add up. Not at all. Can you imagine how she would look by starving herself?

The woman in the red dress? Look at the arms. Thin and plump. And when I say "plump", I'm talking about the type of skin of a younger woman. A 49 year old woman wouldn't have those arms even if she lost the weight a "healthy" way. I'm Lean. I weigh 125 lbs today. I also have muscle tone from lifting free weights. I'm 45 years old. My arms look different then someone in their 30's. I think they look good, but that's one of the signs of aging. As toned as I can be, there is not that Plump look of youth anymore. Does that make sense? And I'm not a woman that had alot of weight to lose. That is "Age" not weight loss. You can see this in Actress' who are older and in shape and "work out". They look great for their age and "in shape", but nothing is going to bring that "plump" skin look back. Same with the face. You lose your "fat pads" under your eyes with age. The skin on my arms doesn't sag from extreme weight loss, but there is this slight "Off" of sagging a little from "age". Being Older. You see that I am lean, you see my muscle tone, but there isn't the tauntness with the skin. Does that make sense?

None of that is in any of the pictures. Kimmer would be 4 years older then me.

So, the pictures would project what she wished she looked like. The woman in the red dress looks "Healthy" and Does not look older at all.

She has to keep projecting the "perfect". Youth, Thin and Healthy.

Maybe that's why she can't meet anyone.

I could be way off base. It seems like this is either one or the other. (She hasn't lost the weight...or she has and it doesn't look good on her and she suffers from an eating disorder).


Or...It just could have been a scam all along.

I am feeling bad....I should have picked up on a lot of this as I see it in my 49 yr. old neighbor every day. She says we are so close we are like sisters....but she can turn on a dime if challenged in any way. She always has off-handed ways of pointing out that I am not as thin as she is, etc. I was going to disagree about the skin thing as my neighbors skin is awesome even in her bikini....and sometimes I think I am the one who's wrong. We live in Minnesota so we get less sun and at a different angle...we are also blondes and stay out of the sun anyway or we just burn. All I'm saying by this is we have very little sun damage at all....and Kimmer always said she really avoided the sun, huge user of Retin-A for MANY years, and takes care of her skin like my neighbor...and my neighbor does have the plump skin and looks VERY young....she also recently got married to a man who is 27 now and she is 49....they look like a cute, young couple...she can wear the very stylish, young styles with a cute hairdo. BUT....I just went and looked at the pictues on page one again and zoomed them to 400% - the forearms on the before are very sun-damaged and TOTALLY different!!!!

I'm just feeling sooooo bad .....and I'm also still hoping we're all proven totally and completly wrong.

A hopeful optimist....Olivia

[cleochatra]

Well, Allie, it took a couple years to admit it, and I'm not thrilled to admit it, but if it makes someone wake the heck up, it's worth it.

People don't want to know when you're sick. They want to emulate 'your success'. Keep it happy and shut up. Attach a cute name to it and voila. It's Hello Kitty for ED.

[KarenG]

Originally Posted by controlledcarb

I can't give you medical advice.....not qualified to do so!

But, if you take your body weight in pounds - divide that by 2.2 and you now have your body weight in KG, which is the formula base to calculate your minimum protein requirement.

Body weight in pounds / 2.2 = body weight in kg

Then take your body weight in kg and multiply that by 0.8

Body weight in kg x 0.8 = grams complete protein required

.....and that will give you the minimum grams of protein each day that should come from "complete" sources (meats, fish, eggs, poultry, dairy) OR combined sources (grains + legumes = complete protein when together they achieve the same protein as a complete source - ie. 1/2-cup rice + 1/2-cup lentils = a complete protein matrix of 15.5g, comparable to the protein/amino acids you'd consume in 2 large eggs).

Often it's difficult to figure out grams of protein when planning meals, so in ounces it's easier - an ounce of animal sourced protein (cheese, meat, yogurt, chicken, etc.) provides between 6g and 7g of complete protein (depending upon whether it's lean or "fatty") An egg is considered an ounce equivalent.

I hope this helps!

Thank you SO MUCH for posting this!! I have been baffled for YEARS over how much protein I should eat. You just answered my question easily. Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!

Originally Posted by jayed

I've debated about posting this. But seeing so many other brave people tell their story, I feel compelled to share mine.

I am a member of kimmer's site and have been on her plan since early February. I started the boot camp plan about 2 weeks in and was averaging under 400 calories a day. And feeling extremely guilty if I hit 400+. I was also exercising 5-6 days a week, which I continue to do.

Did I lose a lot of weight? Sure. But I also started binging. Again. I came to kimkins with a history of bulimia with anorexic tendencies, so you would think I would have known better. But I did it anyway. I dealt with the binging by exercising even more, restricting even more, purging, laxatives. It's not pretty. But I am having a very hard time walking away. I have slowly upped my calories to between 500 and 800. I know that's still very low but I am terrified to go higher.

I don't know that I have any room to blame Kimmer, as I have done this to myself. But I really wish I would have realized 6 months ago how far I would backslide into my old dangerous habits. I probably should have known.

Julie

(((Julie))) and hugs to all the others who shared.

I have stayed away from Kimkins because I KNOW it would bring back my ED tendancies. Anything really strict does that to me. But the only reason I knew that was from YEARS of trial and error. Every strict diet I tried sent me back to bulimia.
But others might not have the knowledge yet, and for them Kimkins can be dangerous. Most diet plans will not admit you if you have a history of an ED. IMO - Kimmer should specify that Kimkins is not appropriate for people with a history of an ED.

Originally Posted by stews

I think that is a really good idea. maybe the posts specifically to ED's could even be moved there to clean this one up a bit and try to get it back on topic.

I think they should stay here....so many people have come forward and said that doing Kimkins triggered ED behavior for them. I think it is important that anyone researching Kimkins, and maybe reading this post, see that this could happen to them.

[Samantha42]

Originally Posted by arcbeav

Thanks for the welcome.


in people who don't produce enough insulin, like Type 1 diabetics, the glucogon isn't countered by the insulin and causes a BG rise. I think this is where the idea that protein raises BG comes from but isn't true for the vast majority of people. Extra protein is much better for you than not enough.

Dr. Mike Eades (Protein Power) had a post in his comments in his blog about it today:

I thought that glucagon (from the pancreas) was also decreased in type 1 diabetics just like insulin, and hence, why they go into ketoacidosis? (if I remember correctly both types of cells in the pancreas are attacked by the immune system?)

But in any case-- using the RDA recommendation for protein is not really helpful for people with reduced carbs. Why? Well if you stay at 60g of protein, low fat, and 20g of carbs-- you're looking at 320 calories a day as a baseline, plus whatever calories you get from fat. To preserve muscle loss during this time you really have to have higher levels of protein (and i suspect, of fat as well).

The 60g a day doesn't really consider ketosis....

Kiki & Amy-- thanks for sharing your story about what happened. I noticed that Christin also belongs to LCF (I saw her magazine picture as the avatar).. has she checked out this thread? I'm sure it's probably hot territory for her, but I thought it'd be interesting to see her point of view.

[lala]

have you guys ever heard of Micheal Hebranko? he is or at least was the world record holder for the most weight loss on one person with something like 700lbs lost eventually he gained it back and has been on a roller coaster ride since every one makes fun him (at least according to him because he is a record holder) IMO he plays the victim alot but i think that i have learned something from him its his one time saying "how successful would an alcoholic be if they had to drink one drink of alcohol each day? or a heroin addict if they had to use a little bit of heroin everyday? that is what i am an addict. food addicts MUST eat everyday to live so how successful do you think we can be?" i think that is true and some don't know where to draw the line weather it be too little or too much. i dont think that means we are all doomed to stay that way but we need extra support and help and i think that together we can do this!