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Old 02-25-2014, 06:30 AM   #1
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Keeping track of UDs?

I have been doing JUDDD for over three weeks now, and so far have GAINED
3 lbs! I am pretty discouraged, but not really surprised. When my sister introduced me to the idea, because I was struggling on my regular LC WOE, I thought "this sounds great!" I am pretty sure that my regular woe was doing damage to my metabolism, since I was having to keep my cals under 1000/day to lose any weight at all. That doesn't seem right!

So my main worry about JUDDD was "but what about the UDs? I can't really JUST EAT!" I have been trying the method as the good doctor suggests... keeping super close track on DD, between 485-520 every DD so far, but not keeping close track on UD... trying to be less obsessive. But I am pretty sure that I must be consuming too much on UDs! Sometimes I even have three meals in one day!!! I NEVER do that normally. So today, I packed all my food for my UD, and put it all into a tracker to see where I am at, and it's 2376. According to Dr. J's website, that is still under what my UD calorie limit is! (2441). So what am I doing wrong? Do I lower my UD calories more? Will that help or make things worse?

Sigh. help?

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Old 02-25-2014, 07:34 AM   #2
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Since you haven't tracked your UDs to now, there's no way to know if you've been eating too much or not enough. Also, coming from Low Carb, if you've added carbs, you've likely replenished your glycogen, causing a temporary, water weight gain.

I say, try to keep your UDs close to the calculated calories, and your DDs close to your DD calculated calories. Do this for 2 weeks to a month, and I think you'll see good results. You just don't have the data to know what's going on right now.

BTW, if I eat "what I want" without tracking on UDs, I can easily eat 3000 or more calories.
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Old 02-25-2014, 07:42 AM   #3
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Laura, I think we can really get you sorted out and losing well on JUDDD.

First of all, Dawn is absolutely right. Coming from LC, you most certainly had an initial gain from building up glycogen, increased water retention. You know the drill. And not really tracking on UDs works for some people, but I would never have lost not counting each and every day. I know it. I would say, count everything, every day.

Next, your UD calories sound too high to me. I was never "allowed" 2441 calories on UDs, and I started at 264 pounds. Of course, you could be much younger/taller than me. But if you wouldn't mind posting your stats (height, weight, age) we can confirm your proper calories. Many a JUDDDer (raises hand) has come up with the wrong calories from the calculator from time to time.

If you're enjoying this WOE (aside from that lack of scale cooperation) then let's see if we can't get you on the road to losing. We just have to find your "sweet spot". Hang in there!
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Old 02-25-2014, 07:44 AM   #4
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I agree (of course) w/ Dawn.
The secret (in my newbie mind) is just to keep going on the rotations. Don't stop. Don't look back.
Look at the JUDDD calculator again and be sure you are using numbers that do NOT include exercise.
For me (and I am early in the process) the key seems to be the DDs. I stay under 400 calories religiously. So far I am still losing and some of my UDs have been foolish; meaning some empty calories and a couple hundred too many.
Try to keep notes about your day. The tracker has a place at the bottom of everyday for notes. I go back and read them once in a while and am surprised at all I have learned about my relationship with food already.
I am excited to continue on JUDDD and look forward to getting to know you!
Big cheer for you!
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Old 02-25-2014, 07:45 AM   #5
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LOL, Carol, we were typing away at the same time!
You Vets are just awesome.
I just love being in this supportive atmosphere!
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Old 02-25-2014, 08:05 AM   #6
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Laura I looked at the calculator, saying you're 5'6" and 30 years old and only get 2164 UD cals.
Maybe you put in something wonky?
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Old 02-25-2014, 10:17 AM   #7
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Just wanted to mention I had the exact same thing happen. i came from low carb and i gained initially and it actually took about a month before i started actually seeing results. It did work however. Im not currently doing it because i wanted to switch it up for a bit, but i was so skeptical and almost quit several times, but it will work if you choose to keep with it. The others said it, dont stop because of it. the rotation will kick in, it's just frustrating when it wont stop and if you have been doing low carb for a while, it's hard to get your head wrapped around it, but it definitely is a viable way to lose weight, just took a while to get started. Good luck.
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Old 02-25-2014, 10:32 AM   #8
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I also switched from LC to JUDDD and am seeing little movement on the scale. Then again, I haven't truly stuck to my UD cals and I'm not sure I had a thorough induction period.

Also, I wonder if your history with VLCalorie dieting is playing into this too. I did a 500 cal diet for a couple months about a year ago before starting NK. Then a long 5 day fat-fast (cals around 700) this past December.

Though if your UD calories are too high then of course that's the first thing to address. I am talking to myself here too.



Thanks for your post, BobApjok! That makes me feel better.
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Old 02-25-2014, 06:26 PM   #9
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Thanks everyone! Dawn and Carol, I really appreciate your help, encouragement and expertise. I think you are both right that I need to keep track of my UDs. I have been keeping close track on my DD, but not my UD. I will start that now.

Dottie - thanks for thinking I'm 30!!! lol

Stats:
Weight 225lbs
Height: 5'6"
exercise level: I go to bootcamp a couple times a week, but let's just ignore that
age: 36

I hadn't really thought about the glycogen thing... that could be it. So you do think I should go back to LC, in combination with the JUDDD? Or is that too much? Might be for my psyche... I don't know.

I'm not going to give up. I will keep track on both DDs and UDs. See how the next couple weeks go with that.

Laura
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Old 02-25-2014, 09:34 PM   #10
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Okay Laura, here's what I got on the calculator using 20% and "little or no exercise":

DD = 426
UD = 2130

That sounds more in line to me, and I'll bet you'll start seeing losses pretty fast if you stick with those levels.

As far as going back to LC or not, I'd say only do it if you find you're having trouble with carb/sugar cravings, feeling carby-yucky, or just love eating LC. If not, allow yourself to enjoy some of the foods you couldn't have when doing LC. I've lost great doing it both ways!

I can't wait to hear you tell us the scale has started moving and you're on your way!
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Old 02-26-2014, 02:30 AM   #11
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I agree with the others that it's a good idea to track your UDs as well as your DDs. The first time I tried doing the 5:2 diet for a week back when the Horizon programme came out, I followed the literal instruction of 500 cals on the 2 days and 'eat what you want' on the 5 days. I was disgruntled not to lose a single pound in that week, so I fell into the camp of 'this obviously only works for men'.

However, I started doing JUDDD last week and decided I would track both. I thought that 1900 cals on an UD would be plenty and I wouldn't be likely to go over - um, wrong! It's scary how easy it is to use up those calories once you start having the little indulgences that you enjoy. Bread, cheese, chocolate, ice cream... all of those things can rack up the calories scarily fast if you let yourself just 'eat what you want'. That's how I ended up overweight, after all - I don't do moderation. I can easily eat a whole pack of biscuits in an afternoon or a pint of ice cream while watching a movie. By tracking and planning out which treats I will and won't have (and sticking to my calories on both UDs and DDs) I have lost 4 pounds in my first week. Turns out fasting can work for women - who knew?! :P

You'll know yourself whether you're the kind of person who can be trusted not to overindulge. I've had to be honest with myself and admit that I'm really not - I need to monitor my intake to have any chance of creating a decent calorie deficit, which is what losing weight is all about when it comes down to it, regardless of the plan followed.

I hope you manage to get to grips with it and that the numbers start going in the right direction soon!
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Old 02-26-2014, 04:12 AM   #12
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Sounds like you've been given some excellent advice Loco. I agree that UD calories can mount up pretty quickly if not monitored. Case in point: I got up extra early this morning and my bf was going to get us some coffee from McD's. I looked online to see what I wanted and decided to make coffee at home lol. A small caramel was 320 calories! I was going to get a large, so probably about 3x that. Bf said, well today's not a diet day for heaven's sake, and I said that I sure didn't want over half my calories first thing this morning in a cup of coffee!!
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Old 02-26-2014, 10:36 AM   #13
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I am going to jump in here too and say i believe this is my issue. I was doing fine the first month eating whatever on UP Days and no food on DD's but now i am stuck at the same weight for over a week. I am guessing there is no downward movement because i am not tracking DD's. On the one had i'd like to assume maybe my body doesn't want to drop lower than this and is testing me since this is one of my weight benchmarks. On the other, i know i have been eating whatever i want.... Any advice would be great. Sorry... I hope i'm not threadjacking....just on the same lines as OP.
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Old 02-26-2014, 10:41 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanttolose70 View Post
I am going to jump in here too and say i believe this is my issue. I was doing fine the first month eating whatever on UP Days and no food on DD's but now i am stuck at the same weight for over a week. I am guessing there is no downward movement because i am not tracking DD's. On the one had i'd like to assume maybe my body doesn't want to drop lower than this and is testing me since this is one of my weight benchmarks. On the other, i know i have been eating whatever i want.... Any advice would be great. Sorry... I hope i'm not threadjacking....just on the same lines as OP.
You're not tracking DD's? Weren't you saying you did DD's totally fasted? or did you mean UD's?
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Old 02-26-2014, 12:36 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Green View Post
You're not tracking DD's? Weren't you saying you did DD's totally fasted? or did you mean UD's?
Sorry Green. You are right. NO calories on DD and not tracking UD.
Thanks.
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Old 02-26-2014, 12:45 PM   #16
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It's pretty clear that I'm going to have to start counting my UDs. I must be eating way more than I think I am.
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Old 02-26-2014, 01:37 PM   #17
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Laura I was going high on the age, too, you don't even look 30
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Old 02-26-2014, 01:43 PM   #18
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FWIW, I gained when I started too and I was counting my UDs and my DDs and never stopped eating low carb. I think it may have been water retention because my body was stressed from the sudden fasting, but that's just speculation. There was really no obvious reason why it should happen.

It eventually went back down and I started to lose. Hang in there.
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Old 02-26-2014, 03:03 PM   #19
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As Rizzo says, if you don't keep an eye on UDs, they tend to be . You eat something small and yummy and *zap* you are over UD cals with two meals to go. Or you eat a huge serving of something with cheese on it - it has cheese on it! It has to be high cal, right? - and find out you are full and still have 1200 calories to go.

Awhile back someone aiming for 1700 cal/UDs got a cookie and frappe for breakfast...and found out she was already 700 calories over her UD plan.
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I did not "lose" weight. I evicted it. It is gone and it ain't coming back!

JUDDD cares about calories. JUDDD does not care what you eat. Your body probably does.

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Old 02-26-2014, 03:55 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanttolose70 View Post
Sorry Green. You are right. NO calories on DD and not tracking UD.
Thanks.
I thought that's what you meant. I am with you on needing to watch UD cals though I haven't been losing much either way.
Even some days when I do count, I'll still go over because I ate some that triggered a bingey repsonse. My successful UD's so far have either been low carb or IF'ing until late afternoon
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Old 02-26-2014, 08:11 PM   #21
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I can't thank everyone enough for all the responses! It really is encouraging. Today was a DD, and I have no problem on them at all. Total 465 today with bootcamp in there as well. Tomorrow, I have my foods planned and entered so that I stay in my limit! I knew going in that the UDs would be the hardest part for me... moderation is NOT my friend! lol

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Old 02-27-2014, 07:40 AM   #22
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I went to a hypnotist once. He said when we lose fat, the cells that held the fat are empty but never go away. For a short time they fill with water because the body doesn't like changes. Hence no weight loss. In a while the cells let go of the water (they're fat, not water, cells!) and we get a whoosh. I've always thought he was right, but haven't seen any studies confirming his idea.
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Old 02-27-2014, 08:36 AM   #23
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Carrie how did you like it? My mom and dad went to a hypnotist for weight loss and they always wanted pizza when they left
Needless to say, it didn't work!
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Old 02-27-2014, 09:48 AM   #24
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Carrie how did you like it? My mom and dad went to a hypnotist for weight loss and they always wanted pizza when they left Needless to say, it didn't work!
It was a long time ago, but pretty interesting. We sat in a dark room with ear phones on, watching a spiral wheel spin, while the hypnotist gave a short lecture on weight loss. Then there was silence while he spoke privately to each person. I slowly lost weight, but left when he started shorting us by adding too many people to the sessions. I never felt hypnotized. Years later I went to a doctor who did hypnosis (maybe through Kaiser?), but didn't find it helpful. I wasted most of the session, thinking I didn't feel hypnotized and wondering what I was doing there. I never went back.

I've dieted on and off for a lifetime. I lost weight on every plan I followed (except last year, when I tried LC again and didn't lose), but none of them worked for long because I'd get cravings. If I gave in to the craving, I couldn't get back on plan. If I didn't give in, I'd end up eating other things to replace the craved food, and in a couple of days would blow the diet. JUDDD feels right: I never liked eating in the morning; it's nice to have the option of eating foods I like or crave; there's a place to check in or post; and I get to choose how much, when and where, or if, I eat. Oddly, on DDs I spend time thinking about a particular treat tomorrow, but when the UD comes, I usually don't want it.

I allow myself to eat between 20 and 25% on DDs, which gives me a little leeway, but I'm very careful on UDs to eat just a bit under the suggested calculation amount. Recent posts suggest increasing vegetables and protein, which makes sense, and I've done that. I'm pleasantly surprised at the end of the day to see I've got calories left over and can have a snack if I want one.
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Old 02-27-2014, 09:51 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carrie jayne View Post
I went to a hypnotist once. He said when we lose fat, the cells that held the fat are empty but never go away. For a short time they fill with water because the body doesn't like changes. Hence no weight loss. In a while the cells let go of the water (they're fat, not water, cells!) and we get a whoosh. I've always thought he was right, but haven't seen any studies confirming his idea.
Google "Of Whooshes and Squishy Fat" and check out the article on Body Recomposition (first link)
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Old 02-27-2014, 05:17 PM   #26
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Hmmm. Interesting. I was down 4lbs this morning. 4!!! so that HAS to be water letting go! I don't really focus on the day to day weigh ins, just then general trend. So I won't get too excited until I see if it stays off.
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Old 02-27-2014, 06:16 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoCo77 View Post
Hmmm. Interesting. I was down 4lbs this morning. 4!!! so that HAS to be water letting go! I don't really focus on the day to day weigh ins, just then general trend. So I won't get too excited until I see if it stays off.
Good for you!
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Old 02-27-2014, 06:47 PM   #28
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WOW Speaking of *Whooshes* OMG!!!!!

Lovin this!!!

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Old 02-27-2014, 07:14 PM   #29
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Oh my word - that's incredible! Water or not, it needed to be gone!!
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Old 02-28-2014, 05:23 AM   #30
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Was up 2 out of the 4lbs this morning, but yesterday was an UD, so I won't worry about it too much. See how tomorrow's weigh in goes after today's DD. I LOVE DDs!!!

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