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Old 02-08-2014, 09:01 AM   #1
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In the interest of truth:

I like wine.
I like cocktails.
When I am not on an eating plan I will have a couple drinks a couple to 3 times a week or so. I never give it much thought.
I am learning that restricting calories on DDs and counting them on UDs causes me to crave a drink.
I really really wanted a drink last night after a perfect DD. It was making me crazy and a little scared as I've never thought I had a 'problem' w/ alcohol.
I went to bed.
I think I have such a screwed up food thing going on that any restriction of any kind messes with my head.
I am not going to give up, but wondered if anyone had any thoughts.
After all these years and years of fighting weight I wonder if I am just really a mess.
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Old 02-08-2014, 09:05 AM   #2
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I doubt you have a problem, Pat, judging from the amount you say you usually enjoy.

I almost always have a cocktail every UD, and sometimes I'll have 2. Every great once in awhile, I'll have 3 over the course of an evening. I enjoy it, and I build it into my calories. But I recently cut them completely out for 2 weeks and had no problem. I missed and wanted them, but didn't "need" them. Sometimes it's just a craving.

The body is sneaky and tries to get you to consume more calories. This may have just been one of those sneaky ways to do that.
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Old 02-08-2014, 09:13 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoCarbGal View Post
I doubt you have a problem, Pat, judging from the amount you say you usually enjoy.

I almost always have a cocktail every UD, and sometimes I'll have 2. Every great once in awhile, I'll have 3 over the course of an evening. I enjoy it, and I build it into my calories. But I recently cut them completely out for 2 weeks and had no problem. I missed and wanted them, but didn't "need" them. Sometimes it's just a craving.

The body is sneaky and tries to get you to consume more calories. This may have just been one of those sneaky ways to do that.
Yup, I agree.

I have cocktails pretty much every UD with the odd no acohol UD here and there, but it's really the exception rather than the rule. I don't have drinks on DDs, but only because I don't want to spend the calories that way. Sounds like I drink more than you do, and I don't feel like there's a problem. Now if you were drinking every day, and drinking to excess, I'd give it a second thought, but a couple of drinks a few times per week seems okay to me.

Most importantly though, is if YOU think there's a problem. Only you know how consumed your thoughts are by wanting that drink. If it's affecting your emotions and thoughts, perhaps trying to go a couple of weeks without would reassure you.
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Old 02-08-2014, 09:15 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoCarbGal View Post
I doubt you have a problem, Pat, judging from the amount you say you usually enjoy.

I almost always have a cocktail every UD, and sometimes I'll have 2. Every great once in awhile, I'll have 3 over the course of an evening. I enjoy it, and I build it into my calories. But I recently cut them completely out for 2 weeks and had no problem. I missed and wanted them, but didn't "need" them. Sometimes it's just a craving.

The body is sneaky and tries to get you to consume more calories. This may have just been one of those sneaky ways to do that.

this is me too and I agree sometimes I think my craving increases on a DD - sneaky body wanting to keep it's fat!!!

I have read on here that some people don't count those calories but I always do. They add up too fast. Depending on which source you use, a glass of wine (average pour- not a "to the rim" pour) can be between 110-160 cal. I tend to average it out at 125. I will often plan my DD dinner around whether or not I want wine. And I have also been known to justify the calories by getting on the treadmill to pre-burn those calories!!

if I am having a mixed drink, I will use a non-calorie mixer (unsweetened flavored club soda or plain club soda with Mio or just lemon or lime).

Depending on your drink of choice, there is not a lot of sugar but your body will burn the alcohol for fuel before it will burn your fat, so consuming alcohol will slow down fat loss for that reason. Just something to consider when you want that drink.
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Old 02-08-2014, 09:28 AM   #5
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I love sweet drinks but only have them on holidays or special occasions even when I am not following a plan.
Now I will have bourbon and diet coke on UP but hate adding the artificial sugar in the coke as it usually stalls me. I like Vodka a/ a little Rose's Lime and topped off w/ several ounces of Diet Lemon Lime. Again, with the artificial sugar and also the for real sugar in Rose's.
I am going to pray on this issue and examine my conscience to see what is going on. I am thinking of postponing any alcohol for a few weeks to get my 'sea legs' back on JUDDD.
the Risk/Reward is not balanced right now. Maybe I have to fight. I hate fighting so many battles at once. I no longer smoke, I am counting calories and now my drinks............ I know it is 'worth' the fight.
I'll get back to this topic after some thought.
I so appreciate you guys.
It cost me quite a bit of pride to make this thread but I'm glad I did.
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Old 02-08-2014, 10:06 AM   #6
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I will say, as someone who has worked (as a psychologist) with folks who have had gastric bypass surgery, it is not at all uncommon for them to switch to compulsive drinking. Like the addictive impulse switches horses. I'm not saying this is your problem Pat--I'm just saying be aware--
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Old 02-08-2014, 10:30 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ouizoid View Post
I will say, as someone who has worked (as a psychologist) with folks who have had gastric bypass surgery, it is not at all uncommon for them to switch to compulsive drinking. Like the addictive impulse switches horses. I'm not saying this is your problem Pat--I'm just saying be aware--
I believe this.
It makes sense to my easily addicted brain.
Bless their hearts.
Thank you for the input.
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Old 02-08-2014, 11:47 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ouizoid View Post
I will say, as someone who has worked (as a psychologist) with folks who have had gastric bypass surgery, it is not at all uncommon for them to switch to compulsive drinking. Like the addictive impulse switches horses. I'm not saying this is your problem Pat--I'm just saying be aware--
You are SO right. As I'm eliminating some of the emotional connections I have with food through dd fasting I notice my desire to sink is so much stronger. And I'm not a drinker hardly at all.

Losing weight seems to be such an emotional and mentally demanding journey I think it's so important to address the psychological reasons behind why we were heavy. I know for me gaining weight was my way of putting people at a distance from me to keep from being hurt, not because I was this lazy glutton who had no self control.

Anyways back to Pat, pat do you have a good support system with you while you're on this journey?
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Old 02-08-2014, 05:02 PM   #9
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Old 02-08-2014, 05:12 PM   #10
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I drank a good bit more when I was at my heaviest. In fact, I suspect it might have had something to do with it. I still drink now, and have relaxed the rule about not drinking on (some) DDs, with a little regret. I am going to stop with that because it doesn't help with weight loss, plus no food means that the alcohol really goes to my head lol. I quit drinking altogether for about 2 months in 2012 because I feared that I had a problem, and was eventually able to add some drinks back, without overdoing it or drinking too often for a long time. I fear that my consumption is getting a little heavier and a little too often, so this is something I'm going to work on as well, Pat. Bless you, and never fear that any problems you might be having haven't been experienced by someone else here.
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Old 02-09-2014, 09:21 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaisMama View Post
You are SO right. As I'm eliminating some of the emotional connections I have with food through dd fasting I notice my desire to sink is so much stronger. And I'm not a drinker hardly at all.

Losing weight seems to be such an emotional and mentally demanding journey I think it's so important to address the psychological reasons behind why we were heavy. I know for me gaining weight was my way of putting people at a distance from me to keep from being hurt, not because I was this lazy glutton who had no self control.

Anyways back to Pat, pat do you have a good support system with you while you're on this journey?
Just you guys.
and that is just fine as JBs are the best!
DD for me today and I have committed to no alcohol on DDs.

I kept my weight at a good number for years and years. Often white knuckling but I did it. Then I lost my husband (second time I was widowed) and my job and my health insurance all within 18 months. I ate and ate because it made me feel better (for a minute). I worked w/ all men and was the only woman on an 18 member outside sales force. It was easy to keep the weight off just for pride. If anyone of those guys saw me now they wouldn't recognize me. We all lost our jobs at the same time when our company was absorbed by another. We stay in touch but not in person as we are spread out all around the world.
Brian and my job have been gone for 8 years now. I am sick of being so uncomfortable and am turning into a complete recluse. Time to accept I can't just sit around and wait to die. I want to live each day I am blessed with and I want to be comfortable in my clothes. I just pray I want those things more than I want to eat my emotions.
Thankful for all who posted here.
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Old 02-09-2014, 09:24 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarygirl View Post
I drank a good bit more when I was at my heaviest. In fact, I suspect it might have had something to do with it. I still drink now, and have relaxed the rule about not drinking on (some) DDs, with a little regret. I am going to stop with that because it doesn't help with weight loss, plus no food means that the alcohol really goes to my head lol. I quit drinking altogether for about 2 months in 2012 because I feared that I had a problem, and was eventually able to add some drinks back, without overdoing it or drinking too often for a long time. I fear that my consumption is getting a little heavier and a little too often, so this is something I'm going to work on as well, Pat. Bless you, and never fear that any problems you might be having haven't been experienced by someone else here.
Thank you, Dearheart.
I am resolving no alcohol on DDs. I realize that I am very prone to substituting addictions.
Hard thing to accept. I am a failed perfectionist. My personality is very compulsive.
I am praying on it.
Hug for you.
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Old 02-09-2014, 09:29 AM   #13
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Hugs back.This weight loss journey brings a lot of other things into focus as well, and I think it's a good thing. It's a time of discovery and healing for us all.
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Old 02-09-2014, 11:28 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patkid View Post
I really really wanted a drink last night after a perfect DD. It was making me crazy and a little scared as I've never thought I had a 'problem' w/ alcohol.
I went to bed.
I grew up with an alcoholic father and dealt with my alcoholic brother in law for many years in my adult life. If you had a "problem" with alcohol, you would not have been able to crave a drink and then just go to bed and not have the drink. Trust me. I'm sure it's the same thing I'm going through now with the "I want stuff I can't have on DD's"
Some DD's I will FANTASIZE about a particular food item and make plans the next day to go get it and 9 times out of 10, by the next day UD, I forget all about it. I can have it and then for some reason I don't want it as much as I did when I could have it! LOL! Right now I'm trying to learn about myself and my eating habits and psychological cravings and the like. I'm not counting on my UD's and I'm allowing myself more "junk" than usual. I've been on this WOE for 3 weeks and think I'm over the "honeymoon" phase. I'm ready to get more veggies and protein back in my life but I had to let myself come to that point by allowing myself to give into to more than a few cravings. Now that I know that on UD's I CAN indulge or have a special treat, I don't have to eat it like I will never get another chance in my life yk? LOL! Okay sorry I took over your post!

PS. I notice some JUDDDers will figure out a cocktail count into their DD too. I have as well. 1.5 oz of Vodka with club soda and lime over ice is not only refreshing but has 96 calories.
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Old 02-10-2014, 10:59 AM   #15
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I agree with what others have said, I think you are probably ok. You craved it and were able to forgo. I can tell you, my DH loves JUDDD because he can factor in BEVERAGE calories for whatever day he is on. He hated LC because of the alcohol stall issues. That being said, I often drink on UD's, not always, but often.

I can also attest to the gastric bypass patients switching to Binge Drinking. My Sister had the procedure YEARS ago and now she drinks to the point of passing out MANY MANY Times a week. I think it is more ABNORMAL for her not to drink to the point of passing out than to not. From this drinking, she has also put back on a bunch of her weight. In her "passed out" state, she will get up at night and eat.....she doesn't remember it, so those calories are just empty and added to a normal day of eating.

If my sister is any indication, she doesn't think she has a problem, she gets up and goest to work every day! That being said, most often if there TRULY IS A PROBLEM, people are typically adament that there isn't one!
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Old 02-10-2014, 01:18 PM   #16
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I just can't do adult beverages on DDs because I get REAL silly REAL quick haha!!
UDs on the other hand, I don't restrict them at all, but I rarely have opportunities to drink.
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Old 02-10-2014, 01:33 PM   #17
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So much helpful info here! Thank you, all.
On my DD yesterday I just put on my plan sheet: 'NO ALCOHOL" and it didn't even bother me.
It helps if I save my DD cals for my weak times like 6-8 PM. I did just fine and I feel a lot better about it. The craving for alcohol was a surprise to me and it just threw me for a loop. In my 30s I drank way too much way too often and I was worried I'd end up back there.
Now to learn to plan my UDS.
I just ate an UD meal that was so NOT worth the cals.
So much to learn about myself and about JUDDD>
It is one week today, tho, and I have stuck to it perfectly.
I am not weighing as the scale can really rule my emotions.
Not sure when I will weigh. I am trying to wait. I want to give JUDDD every chance.
I just love you guys!
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Old 02-10-2014, 02:14 PM   #18
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Just wanted to give you a big ole today!

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Old 02-10-2014, 08:50 PM   #19
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Just wanted to give you a big ole today!

Phyl
boy, oh boy, did I ever need that hug!
thank you so much!!

I can't tell you how badly I need this plan to work for me THIS YEAR.
NOW.
I am working it to the best of my ability.
I am trying to ignore the fact that it doesn't 'feel' like I've lost any weight at all. I am just putting one DD after an UD and keepin' on.
Thank you!
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Old 02-11-2014, 12:58 AM   #20
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You are so welcome! I hate that you are feeling like you aren't getting anywhere. I'm sure you are, and with your great attitude, you are bound to be successful!....................

Whoosh Fairy.........where arrrrrrre youuuuuu?

Keep on keeping on!! I believe it was Adi that used to always encourage others by telling them it really took patience and diligence. I know it has been true in my case.

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Old 02-12-2014, 11:35 AM   #21
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Pat, this is going to be your year. I am so pleased you are posting here regularly, that will really help. We all have our ups and downs and the support here is second to none.

Big hugs from me too. x
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Old 02-12-2014, 12:48 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patkid View Post
So much helpful info here! Thank you, all.
On my DD yesterday I just put on my plan sheet: 'NO ALCOHOL" and it didn't even bother me.
It helps if I save my DD cals for my weak times like 6-8 PM. I did just fine and I feel a lot better about it. The craving for alcohol was a surprise to me and it just threw me for a loop. In my 30s I drank way too much way too often and I was worried I'd end up back there.
Now to learn to plan my UDS.
I just ate an UD meal that was so NOT worth the cals.
So much to learn about myself and about JUDDD>
It is one week today, tho, and I have stuck to it perfectly.
I am not weighing as the scale can really rule my emotions.
Not sure when I will weigh. I am trying to wait. I want to give JUDDD every chance.
I just love you guys!
We love you, too, Pat!!

You need to do what works for you. I want to give you my take on the weighing thingie and people are probably sick of hearing me talk about it!

For me, I have learned that staying away from the scale for long periods of time puts me in a state of denial. And, I end up fretting more about my weight than I do when I weigh. Does not make sense, huh? That's just me.

When I finally started "manning up" and just stepping on that monster every morning, the numbers just became numbers. Kind of like a research project. The scale devil lost it's evil power over me.

I made sure I read enough research to know that there are all kinds of things that can make the scale give me a false, high reading. It can be food in the gut, as yet undigested. It can be water retention in the tissues caused by exercise. It can be hormonal. It can be a bag of salty chips for Pete's sake! So many things I can't list them here.

The bounce up after an UD has mostly become a good sign that my body is being nourished and I'm keeping the metabolism from slowing down.

The drops that usually happen (not always) after a DD give me hope that someday that number will be my after-the-UDs number!!

Because I pretty much write down every thing I eat, especially on DDs, the scale and my journal help me to see what seems to work really well and what absolutely does not work so good.

Today I'm trying to repeat exactly what I ate on Monday. That's because I finally saw a new re-start low yesterday morning. So, what I ate Monday might have helped that along. Maybe not. But maybe.

Weighing helps me with experimentation.

I don't want to push you into anything you don't want to do! Just felt compelled to give you my take on it. It was important for me to break the emotional tie with the scale. I'm not saying I'm always successful. Some mornings after a carby UD I do not step on the thing because I know glycogen stores mean the number will be up unusually high and I just don't want to see it. But, later in the afternoon if I feel like the DD is going well and I know I've been drained of some fluid, I'll take a peek just to see if it's going in the right direction. Sometimes not.

But I always weigh after a good DD.

Did you weigh before you started JUDDDing so you will know where you are coming from? I imagine you did but don't remember reading about it.

and more to you! So glad you are learning things about yourself and your reaction to food.

I don't eat anything any more if it's not "worthy". I'm known by my family to take a bite of something, spit it out in my paper napkin and push the plate away! I'll go somewhere else for my calories, thank you very much!
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Old 02-12-2014, 03:14 PM   #23
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Hi Pat, I'm a new JUDDDer, so I don't have any real advice for you. I'll share that I do drink sometimes on an UD but, so far, I can't see using my DD calories for alcohol. With so few calories in my system on a DD, I suspect I would get nauseous, most likely.

Anyway, I like how you are paying attention to your cravings and adapting the diet to fit your needs. I'm sure you can make progress with that approach!
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Old 02-12-2014, 04:56 PM   #24
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You, know, Yam, maybe it would be better to weigh.
I just dunno.
I do great great great on DDs and really am stressed by UP Days.
I posted on your thread about your 10 lb mark.
I just seem to eat stupid on UDs.
Tango,
this will work for me. I just have to figure out the Up Days.
I think I am so afraid to eat real food after so long.............I am 'afraid of it' ?
I will figure it out.

I'm so glad we are all here.
I rely on you guys.
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Old 02-12-2014, 04:58 PM   #25
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Pat, this is going to be your year. I am so pleased you are posting here regularly, that will really help. We all have our ups and downs and the support here is second to none.

Big hugs from me too. x
Kissa, you are so pretty! and I just love that avi and your smile.
I am going to assimilate your encouragement.
Thank you.
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Old 02-12-2014, 05:28 PM   #26
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WOE: Dukan 8/1/11 and now JUDDD
Start Date: 8/1/11 RE-start 1/1/14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patkid View Post
You, know, Yam, maybe it would be better to weigh.
I just dunno.
I do great great great on DDs and really am stressed by UP Days.
I posted on your thread about your 10 lb mark.
I just seem to eat stupid on UDs.
Tango,
this will work for me. I just have to figure out the Up Days.
I think I am so afraid to eat real food after so long.............I am 'afraid of it' ?
I will figure it out.

I'm so glad we are all here.
I rely on you guys.
Pat: I was just like that the first time I started JUDDD back in December of 2011. It took me a while to get UDs under control because I think I wanted to make up for all the time I banned so many yummy foods. Real food is REAL GOOD!

The most important thing in the beginning is to remember what Dr. J said in his book. The DDs are what is MOST important in the beginning.

Keep concentrating on getting those DDs as low as you can manage. The Rescue Gene (SIRT) will start building up and working even if you don't feel it. On UDs may I recommend that as soon as you get hungry you eat some protein? I keep it lean at first just to save up calories for all the yummy foods I might want later in the day.

30% of lean protein calories are burned up in the digestion process because it takes your body a lot of energy to digest and use all that good nutrition. That means if you eat 100 calories in lean chicken or steak or fish or whatever protein you like, 30 calories are used to process it leaving you with only 70 calories that can be used or stored if you over eat. And, the magic of protein is that it has built in appetite suppressors. You may find you are not as hungry as you thought you would be.

Be strict and religious and unmovable about your DDs. As you go along, the UDs will start to take care of themselves. Read Varady, Johnson and Mosley's books and articles over and over again to get some subliminal support.

You can do this. You are a strong woman! I'm counting on you!
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Old 02-12-2014, 06:06 PM   #27
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Location: Rockford IL
Posts: 1,319
Gallery: Patkid
Stats: 199/160.8/165
WOE: JUDDD
Start Date: Feb. 3, 2014
I've been thinking.
I think eating popcorn or having a drink is what I do on UDs because it feels so 'wrong' to have a 'real meal'.
To sit down and eat some delicious protein a nice carb and lots of veggies is a luxury I have denied myself for so long.
Picking at Popcorn or having a drink is excusable because it isn't 'really eating'.
I need to be okay with 'really eating'.
Real food
a Real meal
with a plate and a napkin and silverware.
In my head that is a luxury I am not allowed.
hmmmmm
my mind is just reeling.
All the time I ate LC I just grazed all day. No real meal. I saved all my carbs for 'treats' like cr cheese clouds so I didn't even eat my veggies. Just meat, eggs and crap.
I think it has been years since I really fixed myself a real meal and sat down and ate like it was ok.
Lots to pray on tonight.
You are really helping me.
I will have my DD tomorrow and will spend time making a food plan for Friday.
I already recognized that I needed an eating plan for my up days I think I am just kind of afraid of them.
I will get this.
Don't give up on me.
I didn't realize how truly screwed up my relationship w/ food is.
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Old 02-12-2014, 06:15 PM   #28
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Northern California
Posts: 5,312
Gallery: Yam-Yam
Stats: 230/191/165 @5'9"tall and 60 yrs. alive
WOE: Dukan 8/1/11 and now JUDDD
Start Date: 8/1/11 RE-start 1/1/14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patkid View Post
I've been thinking.
I think eating popcorn or having a drink is what I do on UDs because it feels so 'wrong' to have a 'real meal'.
To sit down and eat some delicious protein a nice carb and lots of veggies is a luxury I have denied myself for so long.
Picking at Popcorn or having a drink is excusable because it isn't 'really eating'.
I need to be okay with 'really eating'.
Real food
a Real meal
with a plate and a napkin and silverware.
In my head that is a luxury I am not allowed.
hmmmmm
my mind is just reeling.
All the time I ate LC I just grazed all day. No real meal. I saved all my carbs for 'treats' like cr cheese clouds so I didn't even eat my veggies. Just meat, eggs and crap.
I think it has been years since I really fixed myself a real meal and sat down and ate like it was ok.
Lots to pray on tonight.
You are really helping me.
I will have my DD tomorrow and will spend time making a food plan for Friday.
I already recognized that I needed an eating plan for my up days I think I am just kind of afraid of them.
I will get this.
Don't give up on me.
I didn't realize how truly screwed up my relationship w/ food is.
JUDDD is teaching you about that! Yay and Hallelujah! I think some prayers are already being answered!

If I gave up on you I would have had to give up on me! No way that's gonna happen. We are so worth it. We are worth the studying and experimenting and the getting up after we fall. Keep on keeping on and you will get this.

Very interesting, your observations about grazing on LC and not preparing and sitting down to a luxury meal. It's about time, huh?

I'm finding that I like to cook even more now that I'm on JUDDD than I did before. And I've always liked to cook. I always cooked more for others than for me. Now I'm cooking just as much for me as for others. This is a good place to be.
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Old 02-12-2014, 06:26 PM   #29
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Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 154
Gallery: brainardt
Stats: 212/195/170 (1st goal) 5'8" 27 y.o
WOE: JUDDD
Start Date: January 31, 2014
I have nothing to contribute that these lovely JB's haven't already said... but I'm sending you hugs and prayers from afar!!!
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Old 02-12-2014, 06:36 PM   #30
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: New York, New York
Posts: 376
Gallery: BroadwayBaby
Stats: 265/224/165
WOE: Lost 35 on WW/-6 on JUDDD...so far
Start Date: 1/18/2014-JUDDD
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patkid View Post
Picking at Popcorn or having a drink is excusable because it isn't 'really eating'.
Jeepers...I don't know if I should respond cuz...one of my UD's last week, that is EXACTLY what I had for dinner! LOL! I didn't feel like cooking, didn't want to spend money on takeout. I wanted to catch up on my Netflix queue and wanted popcorn! So instead of having dinner, I made a big ol' bowl of popcorn popped in olive oil with some parmesan, sea salt and tabasco and a bottle of 2 buck Chuck (actually 3 buck chuck in NY) and I remember how great I felt to be a single again, with a son who's grown and on his own. I don't HAVE to worry about cooking for two fussy eaters anymore (EXH and DS) even though I had a tough day and didn't want to cook and then maybe even clean up after them! LOL! Now I could put on my jammies, eat some popcorn and drink some wine and escape into a few movies...I don't do that EVERY night but I don't think there's anything wrong with what I did or you did. Be nice to yourself! Figure out what's going on, think on things, journal (food and otherwise) and it's all gonna work out!
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