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Old 02-03-2014, 02:26 PM   #1
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Stubborn Body Fat!

So while doing my push-ups the other night I got hot and took off my shirt, and did another set and made the mistake of looking down at my belly. I was horrified by the drooping hanging flesh there! Standing up straight I see good definition coming along and some hints of abs popping out but I never got down in a plank position shirtless and looked at my belly. I began thinking that I will never have decent abs and I will have to either wear a shirt the rest of my life or consider getting surgery to fix the damage from being overweight for so long.

So I started doing some research on loose skin and non-surgical cures and instead of finding a miracle cure what I found was that I cannot say yet that I actually have loose skin. The general consensus is that unless the "loose" skin is only a few millimeters thick and if you can grab a handful that it is still fat. Stubborn fat that is keeping your skin from adjusting to fit your new body. Since that fat is still there and hasn't really changed its overall shape, my skin will also maintain that shape until it is gone. Only when my skin when pinched between my fingers is a couple of millimeters thick can I actually say I have loose skin.

So what to do about it? I basically need to drop my body fat percent to 10-12% to get to a level where that subcutaneous fat should no longer be there and give my skin a chance to bounce back. If I have to go lower then lower I will go. The problem with stubborn fat is that it is stubborn and generally has more a2 receptors than b2 receptors, and the a2 receptors block the ability to access and use that fat for fuel. So I will be looking for supplements that will block the a2 receptors and make the fat more usable and doing fasted training to get some extra fat burning into my day. I'll also be taking vitamin C and collagen to encourage skin elasticity. I'll also be staying low carb, controlling my insulin and preventing as much fat storage as I can.

Also for the ladies, the same info I read about this indicated 15-17% would be the equivalent body fat percent for women to make the same evaluation on if it was loose skin or not.

So my current target for 10% body fat is somewhere around May/June 2014, assuming I am actually 16% now. I'm going to schedule a DXA scan and one other BF test in the next 30 days to verify the current BF%, and then a follow-up in June. After I get to 10% BF I will give myself 5-6 months for my skin to bounce back while maintaining that BF % level. I will also continue my strength training throughout to help fill in the gaps and meet my skin halfway!

We shall see how I do. This will just be the next step on my journey for health and fitness.
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Low Calorie: 7/14/2011 - 80lbs lost
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Old 02-03-2014, 02:39 PM   #2
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This is what I've read too, Mike. I'll be interested in how you do. I don't anticipate ever being able to get to such a low BF % to make that evaluation, so I may have to deal with the sag.

I'm afraid we all might be quite disappointed seeing ourselves from certain angles or positions. Especially since most of us are "well out of our 20's" ahem. But only we are expecting near perfection of ourselves. I hope you can see what an amazing transformation you've made, and won't get hung up on that one "view".
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Old 02-03-2014, 02:50 PM   #3
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I know mine's still fat, but I don't want to lose anywhere else right now, so I'm trying to come to terms with the saggy belly.

I'll follow your progress with great interest, Mike!
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Old 02-03-2014, 02:52 PM   #4
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Thanks, I know I can't expect to be perfect and I would never expect that of anyone else. But I have actually been struggling a little with "where do I go from here?". We all have our goals with weight loss, and then wishful goals, and then ultimate goals. I think I need something to work on for a while longer to keep me focused and motivated and this is something I can do. I will never opt for surgery so I'm looking for the healthiest way to achieve what I want. I actually think that some people jump the gun and get surgery and maybe with time and perseverance could achieve the same end.

I have time and the will and drive to do this, so I shall do this! And I will eat delicious foods while doing this, and I will do fun things while doing this and I will enjoy life while doing this.

I'm definitely proud of what I have accomplished, which was more than I ever thought I could, and now I think I can do more. If I ultimately cannot I will still be happy, because I am still happy now. And I like the image in the mirror, when gravity is pulling in the optimal direction!
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Old 02-03-2014, 03:31 PM   #5
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How about the sagging skin under my chin? I have started to get a wattle that looks worse than my 72 yo sister's. I know it's way too soon for me to have it, and I hate seeing it in the mirror. It comes from having such a plump face before I lost 35 lbs...any hope it will go back to normal?

Good luck to you, Mike! If anyone could do it, you can!
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Old 02-03-2014, 03:40 PM   #6
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Mike: I just love your attitude! ...I will eat delicious food while doing this....I will enjoy life....That's so great! You are an inspiration for sure!
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Old 02-03-2014, 03:48 PM   #7
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15-17% body fat for women, especially of childbearing age, is truly very difficult. I'm not sure it's even recommended if one is considering having a baby. I'm loving my gym workouts, but I am not above having the huge amounts of skin on my upper arms surgically removed. I am truly a very happy person, but I find my upper arms grotesque and I don't think all the weight lifting in the world can get these arms the way I would like. I meet with a trainer on 2/14 and will see what he says, but I'd like to have my arms done this winter- if possible.
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Old 02-03-2014, 05:02 PM   #8
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I was not suggesting that one should strive for either 10% for men or 15-17% for women, just that at that point you could probably finally make the determination that it was or was not loose skin. That is if you could not already tell based on how it presented.

My opposition to surgery has nothing to do with thinking anything is wrong with it, it is because it scares the heck out of me! So I will try anything else to avoid that solution, up to and including learning to live with it.

Cindy - I too have an under the chin "thingy" that just won't go away, and I have to figure out how to stand in pictures where it's not obvious!
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Old 02-03-2014, 05:14 PM   #9
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I'll be looking at the sky in pics from now on!
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Old 02-03-2014, 05:32 PM   #10
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That's interesting that you didn't notice it until that angle. You have lost quite a bit and so you must be doing something right.

I totally agree about people jumping the surgery gun. I mean, I know it will never be a decision I'd make anyway; but, IMO, people having surgery DURING their weight loss progress let alone not waiting for at least a year to decide is crazy.
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Old 02-03-2014, 05:52 PM   #11
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Mike, what you have already accomplished is amazing.

I think it's great to have something to focus on in life that is so positive, and you definitely have a wonderful attitude.

Kudos for continuing to attain even higher levels of a healthy mind and bod!!

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Old 02-03-2014, 07:43 PM   #12
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I have the same thing when I do planks/push ups. When I'm standing, I'm actually semi-pleased with the appearance of my upper abdomen. Not quite flat/level with my ribs, maybe 1/2" protruding. Then I assume the position - blah!!!!
I have no suggestions for you, and I'm still in WLM. But I feel your pain!
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Old 02-03-2014, 08:32 PM   #13
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Cindy, 10 years ago I had what I would call "turkey neck", from that fat was removed laproscopicly! Doctor told me at that time that it may come back and it has but not as badly. I have to admit it looked worse initially but seems to be retracting a bit. A doctor friend of mine said to give it 6-8 months and it has been that long. I chew gum for 2-3 hrs when I walk, I don't know whether that helps but I'm definitely considering surgery after I have lost another 20 lbs. In the meantime, the search for the right Plastic surgeon is on.

Carly, if you find a good surgeon for the wings let me know. Although, my husband says the scars that he has seen on underarms and inner thighs are pretty awful! Not to put you off, mind you!

Good for you Mike, you are young yet! Body may not be perfect but "nicely built" will do!
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Old 02-03-2014, 08:59 PM   #14
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Carly, if you find a good surgeon for the wings let me know. Although, my husband says the scars that he has seen on underarms and inner thighs are pretty awful! Not to put you off, mind you!
I've heard this as well - the horrible scaring, but I'm wondering if its surgeon skill or something about the anatomy of that location. I've had 2 surgeries, one "cosmetic" (major breast reduction - we won't talk about how big they were "before") and my scars are really not that bad. In fact, from my "cosmetic" procedure, the scaring is hardly noticeable and were I the kind to go around with my bits hanging out, I doubt you'd notice unless you spent a considerable time staring. My surgeon was, however, quite specific about after care and how to keep the scar appearances at an absolute minimum. I've also had other doctors, during annual exams, comment on how good my scars look so it may, again, be related to the surgeon.
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Old 02-04-2014, 09:09 AM   #15
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Ok, so I scheduled a DEXA scan and a Bod Pod body composition test for this Friday at 11am, with 2 follow-up DEXA scans so I can get a 20% discount. I'll post my results here when I have them. I chose to do 2 initial tests so I can see how the results compare. I might go ahead and schedule dual follow-up tests as well. Glad I finally pulled the trigger on this and hopefully my estimate of 16% is accurate.
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Old 02-04-2014, 09:12 AM   #16
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Exciting, Mike! I will be very interested in how the DEXA and the BodPod compare. Good luck!
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Old 02-04-2014, 09:15 AM   #17
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I look forward to the results, Mike. I'm so intrigued by all of this - I know that I've been concealing my interest really well.

The nearest facility to me charges $250 for a single scan and report (no package deals) so I'm going to have to wait until I have enough time to travel to the one near a family friend (whom I can visit). The facility near my friend charges approx $310 for a package of one scan and report and 2 follow-ups.
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Old 02-04-2014, 09:24 AM   #18
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The university near me has an exercise science laboratory that does public testing and the 3 DEXA scans will be $260, and the single bod pod is $75. If I pay ahead of time subsequent Pod Bod tests will be 20% off.
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Old 02-04-2014, 02:03 PM   #19
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Hope you get the results you want and can't wait to see what they are. I love hearing other people's results on things.
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Old 02-04-2014, 04:26 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdforshort View Post
Cindy, 10 years ago I had what I would call "turkey neck", from that fat was removed laproscopicly! Doctor told me at that time that it may come back and it has but not as badly. I have to admit it looked worse initially but seems to be retracting a bit. A doctor friend of mine said to give it 6-8 months and it has been that long. I chew gum for 2-3 hrs when I walk, I don't know whether that helps but I'm definitely considering surgery after I have lost another 20 lbs. In the meantime, the search for the right Plastic surgeon is on.

Carly, if you find a good surgeon for the wings let me know. Although, my husband says the scars that he has seen on underarms and inner thighs are pretty awful! Not to put you off, mind you!

Good for you Mike, you are young yet! Body may not be perfect but "nicely built" will do!
If I come into some money(), I might consider cosmetic surgery. Especially if it's worse when I get to goal. I had cosmetic surgery once, and I took out a loan to do it--breast augmentation.

Wait, JD, are you saying that you had WL surgery, or that you had your "turkey neck" lapriscopically removed. I don't know how to spell it lol.

Last edited by Librarygirl; 02-04-2014 at 04:29 PM..
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Old 02-04-2014, 08:01 PM   #21
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I was horrified by the drooping hanging flesh there! Standing up straight I see good definition coming along and some hints of abs popping out but I never got down in a plank position shirtless and looked at my belly. I began thinking that I will never have decent abs and I will have to either wear a shirt the rest of my life or consider getting surgery to fix the damage from being overweight for so long.
Haha I've known about this horror for a long time...I especially notice it doing pigeon (yoga pose) that and the fact that I still have a muffin top wearing low rising pants or a spare tire when I sit down. Every time someone tells me that I don't need to lose anymore weight, these are the thoughts and visions that pop in my head. This is why I want to drop down to at least 145lbs but can't seem to get lower that 155lbs

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Old 02-04-2014, 08:06 PM   #22
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Haha I've known about this horror for a long time...I especially notice it doing pigeon (yoga pose) that and the fact that I still have a muffin top wearing low rising pants or a spare tire when I sit down. Every time someone tells me that I don't need to lose anymore weight, these are the thoughts and visions that pop in my head. This is why I want to drop down to at least 145lbs but can't seem to get lower that 155lbs
I'm your height, 145, and STILL have the spare tire and muffin top. I think, at some point, we just have to let that go, and concentrate on loving ourselves (talking to myself here)!
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Old 02-04-2014, 08:10 PM   #23
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I'm your height, 145, and STILL have the spare tire and muffin top. I think, at some point, we just have to let that go, and concentrate on loving ourselves (talking to myself here)!
I agree completely with you Dawn - we need to love ourselves unconditionally, it's important but yet so hard. We're so hard on ourselves.
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Old 02-04-2014, 10:24 PM   #24
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If I come into some money(), I might consider cosmetic surgery. Especially if it's worse when I get to goal. I had cosmetic surgery once, and I took out a loan to do it--breast augmentation.

Wait, JD, are you saying that you had WL surgery, or that you had your "turkey neck" lapriscopically removed. I don't know how to spell it lol.
Cindy, they just removed the fat that was embedded in the neck which appeared as the "turkey neck". It was a small procedure. I didn't get skin tuck or anything.
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Old 02-04-2014, 10:28 PM   #25
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I've heard this as well - the horrible scaring, but I'm wondering if its surgeon skill or something about the anatomy of that location. I've had 2 surgeries, one "cosmetic" (major breast reduction - we won't talk about how big they were "before") and my scars are really not that bad. In fact, from my "cosmetic" procedure, the scaring is hardly noticeable and were I the kind to go around with my bits hanging out, I doubt you'd notice unless you spent a considerable time staring. My surgeon was, however, quite specific about after care and how to keep the scar appearances at an absolute minimum. I've also had other doctors, during annual exams, comment on how good my scars look so it may, again, be related to the surgeon.
DH says it's do with the way they have to do the cut. Sounded like long/big seams the way he was describing it
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Old 02-04-2014, 10:48 PM   #26
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DH says it's do with the way they have to do the cut. Sounded like long/big seams the way he was describing it
I suppose that makes sense. I have long scars, they're just quite faint. I guess its easy for me to not be self conscious about them because no one ever sees them.

I bet, though, surgeon skill would be important because if you are going to have an incision that is the length of your whole upper arm, you'd want the scar to be as minimal as possible.

Bat wings versus faint (when healed) surgery scar - its a trade off and I guess only each individual can make the decision which they'd rather have...

I've talked to Hubby about the possibility of a tummy tuck when I'm done with WLM, having had 2 surgeries already I'm not too scared of another. My self imposed restrictions include getting to "goal" and maintaining it for at least 1 year before even considering it. Whats the point of surgery if I'm just going to put it all back on? Reality is, though, unless insurance will cover it (they won't) it likely won't happen. Not because I'm scared but because there are so many other things I'd like to spend the money on. We're putting up a barn, need a new tractor, saddles, trailers, horses... So much more a priority than a flat stomach when, honestly, I'm rarely in a position (read: bathing suit) where a flat stomach is really necessary. I can hide the flab with clever clothing. And I really want a barn. And a new trailer. And a tractor. So much more than a tummy tuck.

Now, if I win the lottery...

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Old 02-05-2014, 05:53 AM   #27
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Cindy, they just removed the fat that was embedded in the neck which appeared as the "turkey neck". It was a small procedure. I didn't get skin tuck or anything.
Expensive?
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Old 02-05-2014, 07:16 AM   #28
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I am guessing that the low body fat% is the only way to truly reduce cellulite as well? Makes sense if that is way to reduce fat next to the skin. Luckily I have that on the back of my legs so don't have to see it.
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Old 02-05-2014, 12:03 PM   #29
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I suppose that makes sense. I have long scars, they're just quite faint. I guess its easy for me to not be self conscious about them because no one ever sees them.

I bet, though, surgeon skill would be important because if you are going to have an incision that is the length of your whole upper arm, you'd want the scar to be as minimal as possible.

Bat wings versus faint (when healed) surgery scar - its a trade off and I guess only each individual can make the decision which they'd rather have...

I've talked to Hubby about the possibility of a tummy tuck when I'm done with WLM, having had 2 surgeries already I'm not too scared of another. My self imposed restrictions include getting to "goal" and maintaining it for at least 1 year before even considering it. Whats the point of surgery if I'm just going to put it all back on? Reality is, though, unless insurance will cover it (they won't) it likely won't happen. Not because I'm scared but because there are so many other things I'd like to spend the money on. We're putting up a barn, need a new tractor, saddles, trailers, horses... So much more a priority than a flat stomach when, honestly, I'm rarely in a position (read: bathing suit) where a flat stomach is really necessary. I can hide the flab with clever clothing. And I really want a barn. And a new trailer. And a tractor. So much more than a tummy tuck.

Now, if I win the lottery...
Absolutely, right surgeon skills are a must! DH says not to go by good looking or articulate/smooth talkers Sensible girl! A year's restriction is excellent! Talking of tractors, my brother ordered his from India, he says they are cheaper and better quality! He grows flowers in NJ!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarygirl View Post
Expensive?
No, Cindy, as my medical insurance was with an HMO they did it to rule out any health complications! DH says, privately for a neck tuck you are looking at around $10K I haven't consulted any surgeon as yet.
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Old 02-05-2014, 12:04 PM   #30
Big Yapper!!!!
 
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 9,065
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Stats: HW 207/(JUDDD) 198/CW 172/GW 150 5'4 49 yo
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Start Date: Low calorie 6/12 ; Low carb 9/12/ ; JUDDD 11/13/12
Well, it looks like I will be keeping mine!!!! Thanks, JD!
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