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Old 02-07-2014, 05:05 PM   #181
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Between last Thursday and Superbowl Sunday, I ended up having four straight UDs since my birthday was also in there. I was trying to figure out what to do to get back on track starting Monday. For one thing, I found doing a full fast while taking the antibiotics wasn't working real well. I decided that I should at least have some yogurt or something like that.

I don't normally eat on DDs so the idea was bugging me. I also would end up being off a day on my rotations. I do an eight day average on my weight so that when a day "fell off the back" of the average, the new day was the same type. That way the average wasn't jumping up and down because I was replacing an DD with an UD or vice versa.

I decided that I would do two DDs in a row, both with about 500 cals. Then I decided that since I had three days of antibiotics I figured "what the hell - I'll do four DDs, if I can".

I know it isn't recommended to do more than one but I wanted to see what would happen. I thought that since I did four UDs in a row, four DDs in a row wouldn't be too bad, since I was eating a little bit. I don't think I could do a full fast two days in a row, let alone four.

I planned on having coffee with half & half in the afternoon and then nonfat Greek yogurt, carrots and an orange for dinner. I did that no problem the first day. On the second day, I had some vitamins and needed a little fat to go along to help absorption so added a few cashews. I estimated that it was around 700 calories on the second day.

On the third, I actually felt really good for most of the day. I had a lot of energy all day at work and felt great. At dinner, though, I was extra hungry and ended up having some eggs with taco meat. I called that a MD, since I probably hit 1000 calories.

Yesterday, the fourth day, was a different story. I wasn't particularly hungry but I felt tired and out of sorts all day. I ended up having a similar MD as the third day.

I went from 203.4 lbs Monday morning to 198.2 lbs this morning. I was really worried that my UD today would turn into a free for all but I haven't been particularly hungry. I ate at 10 am and again at 3 pm. I'll probably have some dinner around 7 pm. I expect my weight will have a nice rebound over the next rotation.

I'm not posting this to brag or recommend people do this. I thought the experiment was interesting and wanted to share. In the future, I don't think I will be afraid to do back to back 500 cal DDs and three is definitely do-able after, say, a vacation or something. I do plan on getting back to my normal rotations from here on out, though.


Sorry if tl;dr.
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Old 02-07-2014, 05:14 PM   #182
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Very interesting, Frosty!! I think what people are trying to avoid is a super low calorie diet that may affect metabolism, and Sirts. The eod UD is what keeps your body from thinking it's starving, and what activates Sirts, from what I understand. However, I don't think a four day fast will affect you negatively in the long run, and you got good results so kudos and thanks for sharing.
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Old 02-07-2014, 05:33 PM   #183
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Very interesting, Frosty!! I think what people are trying to avoid is a super low calorie diet that may affect metabolism, and Sirts. The eod UD is what keeps your body from thinking it's starving, and what activates Sirts, from what I understand. However, I don't think a four day fast will affect you negatively in the long run, and you got good results so kudos and thanks for sharing.
If you take the eight days together, the average daily calories are higher than I would normally have over an eight period with normal EOD rotations and full fast DDs. Maybe I would have lost more weight if I had done that instead but I had been bouncing around in the 199's during the 10 days or so before that.
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Old 02-07-2014, 06:23 PM   #184
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That is interesting! I have been looking a lot at my weekly calorie intake as I need to put in more MD's for running flexibility but I need to do DD's and UD's to keep my metabolism burning those calories instead of me just turning into a tired ice cube ( slowing down my metabolism too much). Thanks for posting what you found and congrats on taking off the four day UD weight!
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Old 02-07-2014, 06:38 PM   #185
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Frosty: Thanks for sharing your experiment with us. I was thinking of Michael Mosley's 4 day fast that he talked about in the Horizon video and in his book. All his blood work numbers showed a vast improvement after 4 consecutive days of fasting. But, he found it very hard to do.

Obviously, consecutive fasting days don't hurt and may help if you do it occasionally.

Congratulations on that nice scale number this morning! Way to go!
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Old 02-07-2014, 07:19 PM   #186
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If you take the eight days together, the average daily calories are higher than I would normally have over an eight period with normal EOD rotations and full fast DDs. Maybe I would have lost more weight if I had done that instead but I had been bouncing around in the 199's during the 10 days or so before that.
I don't think the overall calorie amount matters so much, as the eod rotations. Many people have said that they could not lose weight on 1200 calories every day, but could easily with DDs and 1800 or more eod, and actually averaging 1200 or a little more--however that works out with eod.
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Old 02-07-2014, 09:06 PM   #187
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Trying to unwind and listen to some music...bf got angry that I was playing music while he was playing his game, that he plays every day all night and all day. I cook his meals, clean his mess, do all the housework, wash his clothes, run most of the errands and somehow I'm not entitled to relax and listen to music on my night off? Sorry for the pity party.
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Old 02-07-2014, 09:16 PM   #188
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Trying to unwind and listen to some music...bf got angry that I was playing music while he was playing his game, that he plays every day all night and all day. I cook his meals, clean his mess, do all the housework, wash his clothes, run most of the errands and somehow I'm not entitled to relax and listen to music on my night off? Sorry for the pity party.
No apologies necessary. That's just wrong. I hope he "gets it" after you tell him that! Stand up for yourself, Honey. You deserve some relaxation time after all you do.
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Old 02-07-2014, 09:21 PM   #189
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Old 02-07-2014, 10:56 PM   #190
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Very interesting experiment, Frosty. And nice scale results. I don't think I could do 4 DD/MDs in a row, so hats off to you on that.

Cindy, I don't blame you for venting. He sounds a little like a teenage boy.

I just saw a coyote running around in my neighborhood. He was a big boy! It's not unusual in the outskirts of town, near the desert, but I'm right in the middle of the suburbs. They are beautiful and scary. I hope everyone with small animals has them tucked safely inside tonight.
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Old 02-08-2014, 02:10 AM   #191
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Originally Posted by FrostyBeav View Post
If you take the eight days together, the average daily calories are higher than I would normally have over an eight period with normal EOD rotations and full fast DDs. Maybe I would have lost more weight if I had done that instead but I had been bouncing around in the 199's during the 10 days or so before that.
Maybe during the course of antibiotics you released some fluid that was retained while you had the infection. Also, even apart from the infection, itís not uncommon, I think, to have a fairly rapid drop after a spell of bouncing around. Itís happened to me two or three times. The eating pattern might have contributed, but I donít think itís really possible to say.

Congratulations on getting things moving again, whatever the cause!
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Old 02-08-2014, 04:53 AM   #192
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Why do vitamins give me weird dreams?
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Old 02-08-2014, 05:39 AM   #193
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I am feeling like the worst friend ever this week. One of my friends is having Baby Daddy/Custody issues and there are days that I just want to slap her and say what are you doing? That's a stupid decision. shut up and stop calling me. I don't know if it's just been a long time coming or if i'm having transference issues, but sweet lord I'm about to lose it. Today is her sons birthday party and I know when I get there this afternoon there is going to be drama. I need to go to an island far, far away.
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Old 02-08-2014, 07:55 AM   #194
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Why do vitamins give me weird dreams?
Really? That's so strange. I've never noticed that myself, although I think I remember some people posting about either DE or Ptero giving them wild dreams.

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I am feeling like the worst friend ever this week. One of my friends is having Baby Daddy/Custody issues and there are days that I just want to slap her and say what are you doing? That's a stupid decision. shut up and stop calling me. I don't know if it's just been a long time coming or if i'm having transference issues, but sweet lord I'm about to lose it. Today is her sons birthday party and I know when I get there this afternoon there is going to be drama. I need to go to an island far, far away.
You are NOT a bad friend! OMG that is the exact opposite of true. It's so hard when people are acting badly, making bad decisions, being self destructive and they basically come to you asking for your sympathy and to justify what they're doing. It's a hard call when to just support and be there for them, and when to tell them what you really think. Sorry you have to endure that today, sweet Lisa!
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Old 02-08-2014, 08:03 AM   #195
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I'm sorry too, Lisa. I agree with Carol. You are definitely not a bad friend, and it seems like that might be true of your "friend". I probably wouldn't even go to the birthday party lol.

Got up too early this morning for all the cocktails I consumed last night. I was so hungry I started to chew on the comforter. Went to Hardee's and got the LC breakfast bowl--not something I would want again unless I couldn't walk to the kitchen or cook something myself. It was fine, but nothing special.

Hope everyone is enjoying the weekend. I intend to relax as much as possible.
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Old 02-08-2014, 08:35 AM   #196
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I had 4 pages to catch up on! Wow!!!!!

Hope everything that was causing troubles has been sorting itself out.

I'm hoping for a relaxing weekend, but I also have loads to do.
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Old 02-08-2014, 09:03 AM   #197
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I think I'm caught up. Today is Saturday (that's for Cindy ... and for me! )

Cindy-- that's some bratty behavior right there. Hopefully, it's an exception to the rule, and he's generally a wonderful person (must be, b/c you are with him, and you are wonderful! )
and I hope he gets over his temporary insanity.

Lisa-- we all have those moments... most of us have those friends, too. You're a professional in this area, right (sorta?)... give yourself a bit of mental distance, go to the party, leave the party, and do something nice for yourself, just yourself, this weekend.

I got up before DH today!
I read for a bit, and now I'm making waffles-- like the quote from Shrek

DH says he prefers pancakes over waffles (so that's what we usually have)... I don't really understand how someone doesn't like waffles?
He says they're too hard to evenly spread butter into.

anyway, I have this great old waffle maker that has changeable plates-- also can lie flat and be a griddle, or had ridged plates to grill and squish with. Love it.

Not sure the plan for today, but we have dinner with friends tonight. The husband had WLS to help "cure" his type 2 diabetes. he wasn't obese, but he wasn't good at keeping it under control either.
He's much slimmer now, and now HAS to eat essentially LC. Irony, I think.

anyway, I'll make a SF dessert to bring, and they're making chicken and veggies. Sounds pretty healthy!

ttyl have a great day!
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Old 02-08-2014, 09:51 AM   #198
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I prefer waffles and I'm coming over to get me some. Do you also have strawberries and whipped cream?

Dinner sounds wonderful, Soren.
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Old 02-08-2014, 10:27 AM   #199
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I don't like waffles or pancakes. I know, I'm weird. I do like crepes though.

Soren, I use my George Foreman to make cinnamon roll waffles for the kidlet sometimes. It's pretty cool. Just canned cinnamon rolls, squished in the GF, and they come out great in 2-4 minutes.
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Old 02-08-2014, 11:33 AM   #200
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I think I'm caught up. Today is Saturday (that's for Cindy ... and for me! )

Not sure the plan for today, but we have dinner with friends tonight. The husband had WLS to help "cure" his type 2 diabetes. he wasn't obese, but he wasn't good at keeping it under control either.
He's much slimmer now, and now HAS to eat essentially LC. Irony, I think.

S.
That would be odd if you woke up thinking it was Friday, went to work and wondered why no one was there! (unless people work weekends at your job?) I've always thought I was a day ahead of myself sometimes. It's really bad when it's Friday and you think/wish it's Saturday

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I don't like waffles or pancakes. I know, I'm weird.

Soren, I use my George Foreman to make cinnamon roll waffles for the kidlet sometimes. It's pretty cool. Just canned cinnamon rolls, squished in the GF, and they come out great in 2-4 minutes.
Me either! Although I'm not above trying Chicken & Waffles!

Oh those cinnabuns on the grill sound soooooo good!!!

I think the vitamin-induced bizarre dreams might be due to a possible overabundance of a certain nutrient in the vitamin? It's the most logical explanation I can think of. It's just a chewable multi from Trader Joe's. I thought maybe it was Melatonin I was taking, but I didn't take it last night and still had odd dreams. And they're not "haha funny" odd dreams like i've had in the past...they're dreams that are not in my favor. One I had was Dbf died in his sleep and I woke up next to him to discover that (I know...) and then last night I had a dream that my ex-friend who used to be my very close friend got a job taking over most of my favorite classes at the gym and it was plastered all over the gym. Walk in, see her name on a sign and get angry/upset. Meh.
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Old 02-08-2014, 11:49 AM   #201
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Soren: So, did the WLS actually reverse his diabetes? Interesting that the doc would agree to do it if he was not obese/morbidly obese. I thought that had to be one of the requirements.



Quote:
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Why do vitamins give me weird dreams?
I found out a long time ago I cannot take vitamins in the evening. I wonder if they just get too many digestive juices going or something. The few times that I have tried it, I absolutely can not sleep. And it's not a happy insomnia. It's miserable. And I need my sleep!

Quote:
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I am feeling like the worst friend ever this week. One of my friends is having Baby Daddy/Custody issues and there are days that I just want to slap her and say what are you doing? That's a stupid decision. shut up and stop calling me. I don't know if it's just been a long time coming or if i'm having transference issues, but sweet lord I'm about to lose it. Today is her sons birthday party and I know when I get there this afternoon there is going to be drama. I need to go to an island far, far away.
You are not a bad friend. She is a toxic friend, probably! Just want to briefly tell you one of my experiences. I'm a good listener, I guess, because people always want to tell me their troubles. I have learned to ask: "Do you want to hear my advice"? or something like that. If they say yes, I share what I think and I get away with being pretty pointed.

I had a close girlfriend whose husband was being very abusive verbally, emotionally and he was 100% completely controlling. I remember having her watch "The First Wives Club" with me because I wanted to get it in her head "you don't own me!!!" which he was acting like he did.

Every day she would call or come over, crying her eyes out, sucking up hours and hours of my precious time, sympathy, pathos, whatever, just playing the same things over and over and every time he "did it again" or kept acting like thee controlling jerk he was, she would say, "why doesn't he just....see it my way...stop hurting me...listen to my side....stop torturing me."

Duh. because he is a jerk. because you let him do it.

I finally decided that I was going to give my wisdom, love and time to her for two more weeks. (I know that sounds cruel, but I had a husband, kids and other friends, a job, church and responsibilities. I couldn't answer her calls in the middle of the night and listen for hours, missing sleep, when she absolutely refused to get counseling or to listen to any of my suggestions.)

At the end of those two weeks, I decided I would have to see/listen to her less and less. When she would call, I would let it go to voicemail. Or, if she came to the door, I would grab my purse and tell her I was on my way out and we would have to get together soon.

Eventually she "got the message" though I never directly said "we're over". We still send each other Christmas cards and letters and sometimes through our sons who were good friends growing up, we will get updates.

Anyway. Do with that what you will. Some people really don't want help, hope or change. They just want to wallow. And, they want to find others who will wallow in their misery with them. If you suddenly get busy and don't have time, she will go on and find some one else who will wallow with her.

Quote:
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I don't like waffles or pancakes. I know, I'm weird. I do like crepes though.

Soren, I use my George Foreman to make cinnamon roll waffles for the kidlet sometimes. It's pretty cool. Just canned cinnamon rolls, squished in the GF, and they come out great in 2-4 minutes.
Dawn: I had no idea you could do that on a GF grill. Maybe when I have the grand kids over I should try it.

I have a many years old Belgian waffle maker. Everyone including DH loves it when I make waffles. I don't eat them though. I might like one bite, but if I eat more than that I feel yucky. I would rather have eggs benedict!
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Old 02-08-2014, 01:31 PM   #202
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I don't make waffles anymore, but I love almond flour/flax meal pancakes with loads of blueberries. Top off with sf syrup and yummmm.
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Old 02-08-2014, 11:10 PM   #203
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I am feeling like the worst friend ever this week. One of my friends is having Baby Daddy/Custody issues and there are days that I just want to slap her and say what are you doing?...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yam-Yam View Post


I had a close girlfriend whose husband was being very abusive verbally, emotionally and he was 100% completely controlling. I remember having her watch "The First Wives Club" with me because I wanted to get it in her head "you don't own me!!!" which he was acting like he did.
I guess 'Tis the Season! I wrote a bit in my journal of a friend/co-worker with an emotionally and verbally abusive husband, and how she's leaving/left him. The choices she's made since are...questionable. She's moved out into an apartment she can't afford while cutting her hours at work and increasing spending. Another tattoo session ($150), week-end road trip with a girlfriend ($200), bought and started some diet thing ($200 but at least its healthy), turned her phone into a mobile wi-fi ($40/month) while all the while complaining about how much the divorce is costing and how she can't afford a lawyer. Of course the guy she's trying to divorce won't sign the papers, she's had him served which is going to make him hit the roof. Her family is a bunch of unsupportive dinks (in my opinion). She needs $2500 for a lawyer and she has no money, her family won't give her any and so now what?? No idea.

I was out with hubby last night as the monkey was with Gramma (date night!) and we were discussing this friend. I told him I knew I could write her a $2500 check and it would not change my life at all - we've quite a bit socked away for a rainy day - and I felt terribly guilty for not doing it, watching her struggle day in and out but I knew, intellectually that it was a really bad idea to do so. All other things aside, I know myself well enough to know that I would analize, and resent every penny she spent until my loan was paid back. I can't help but look at the expenses I listed above and think "that's 1/5 of the cost of the lawyer and that's only from this month" I get that its hard for people to save, and no one plans to need a lawyer but really?

Its tough to watch, especially when decisions that I feel are BAD are being made. And I want to slap her family too, but that's a different story for another day
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Old 02-09-2014, 02:49 AM   #204
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Dawn, I love crepes and french toast!

Yam-Yam Sometimes friend's gotta do what is best for the family and one's own mental health! I had a friend once, going through separation, who became an emotional drain on my family life. Luckily for me, she got divorced and moved on with her life, and forgot all about me!

Yennie Wise girl, you probably wouldn't see that money back and would have added stress to your life. And I'm with you, where is that gray matter, Tattoos/road trips, UGH!

I've lent people money few times in my life ($1k-$50k) never got it back in the promised time frame. Couple of months they said, my foot! More like a year or two and even that only after I asked them over and over again! So, it's better to stay away from sob stories!

On another front, I'm a little frustrated with my late night snacking sessions, can't seem to control my DD or UDs! And can't get back to PH either, what's going on with my body and brain!
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Old 02-09-2014, 09:53 AM   #205
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Getting ready to go to gym. Then home to shower and then dreaded bra shopping. I've been wearing my 36Ds which are too big.

Hear is hoping for 34C or 32C.
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Old 02-09-2014, 09:54 AM   #206
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Good luck with the bra hunt!
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Old 02-09-2014, 10:07 AM   #207
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Interesting reading about toxic friends, and how to deal with them. I have a friend from childhood that I outgrew in a way and really found her quite annoying in many ways. I feel guilty to this day for not keeping in touch, or avoiding her when she tries to keep in touch with me. She wasn't toxic or demanding in any way really, except that she wanted my time when I didn't really enjoy spending it with her.

Carly, I hope your bra shopping goes well. I know you're in a smaller size than 36! I am in a 36 lol.

I'm having a late morning/early afternoon wake up here, and still drinking coffee at noonish. I woke up during the night and bf was still up, so we watched Netflix together for an hour or so and went back to bed as dawn was approaching. It was kind of nice, but I am sooo tired today. I made myself get up so that I can get some rest tonight.

Hope everyone is doing well.
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Old 02-09-2014, 10:22 AM   #208
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Loaning money to friends is always tricky. I had a similar experience with a good friend several years ago, and didn't get it back in the agreed upon timeframe. In the meantime, her family was spending money on luxuries. I was very resentful, and it took me quite awhile to get over it. I kept it to myself, but I'm sure she sensed it. And honestly, I believe sometimes when you do something like that to help out, they resent you on some level for having that "power" over them. Sigh.

Bra shopping = no fun, but I hope you'll find something you really like, Carly.

JD, I'm very familiar with that struggle recently. I think I'm just now getting a handle back on it. No idea what changed, but I hope I can keep it up. Good luck to you too!

Heading over to Mom's this afternoon for a small sewing session on her machine. I'm continuing to learn new sewing skills by necessity. Today it's replacing an elastic waistband in some sweats I love and can't find any like them.
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Old 02-09-2014, 10:29 AM   #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yennie View Post
I told him I knew I could write her a $2500 check and it would not change my life at all...and I felt terribly guilty for not doing it, watching her struggle day in and out but I knew, intellectually that it was a really bad idea to do so. All other things aside, I know myself well enough to know that I would analize, and resent every penny she spent until my loan was paid back...

Its tough to watch, especially when decisions that I feel are BAD are being made...
You know that she'd fritter the money. Only lend it if it's worth it to you to lose her as a friend and never see her again (because she won't pay it back and will either start asking for more or dodging you).

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdforshort View Post
Yennie Wise girl, you probably wouldn't see that money back and would have added stress to your life. ..
I've lent people money few times in my life ($1k-$50k) never got it back in the promised time frame. ...So, it's better to stay away from sob stories!
I couldn't agree more. You never, ever, get the money back. People rationalise to themselves that you can't need it or you wouldn't have had it to lend. And then there's always something more important to them to spend the money on, rather than repay you. (And, they never seem to notice that while they've had their 4th 'little holiday' that year, that's 4 more than you've had in the previous 10 years.)

One of my sisters once did a remarkably wise thing that I've tried to emulate since then. She was asked for quite a substantial sum to bail out an in-law who'd been an ostrich over some debt and was facing legal action of various sorts. She refused to lend the money but gave excellent advice and support on dealing with various banks/agencies and setting up repayment schedules.

The legal actions were stopped - that person finally discovered he couldn't be bailed out, on demand, every time he asked, and he did pick up some useful skills.

There are several organisations that I hugely admire that work with people with chronic debt or a complete absence of budgeting skills. They don't lend money to people, but they do lend support and advice for renegotiating debt and helping people to understand their finances - which seems of far more long-term use.
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Dec 2014 A DXA scan reported very low muscle mass (sarcopenia) so I'm still thinking about how to cope with that. I have some joint surgery to schedule. I may miss questions that people ask me or personals. Apologies if I do, it's not intentional.
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Old 02-09-2014, 10:37 AM   #210
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I'm so cold today! brrrrrrrrr!

Anyone see the Lego movie yet? A friend and I are going to see it on Thursday.
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