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Old 01-17-2014, 10:47 AM   #1
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Calorie Cycling vs. JUDDD

I am wondering if calorie cycling works to drop a little extra holiday weight as well as JUDDD does. I don't feel mentally prepared right now to jump back into JUDDD and do the 500 calorie or less DDs but I do feel that calorie cycling is something I could do rather easily.

I would imagine that the SIRTs would not flow with calorie cycling but other than that are there any other differences between the two as far as weight loss is concerned?
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Old 01-17-2014, 12:48 PM   #2
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LIG, thank you for bringing this to our attention. I didn't know anything about it until I read your post, then googled it! Pretty interesting concept and seems more doable. On the surface, it makes sense not to give the body a set pattern to get used to. Logically, it should work as long as the overall deficit is the same. I already weigh/log everything any way, so this should be a no brainer. I seriously have to think about this one if I continue spinning around the same figures.
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Old 01-17-2014, 01:09 PM   #3
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Hi JD,

I'm happy I could contribute something potentially useful to this wonderful forum

At face value it sure looks like it should work like JUDDD, without activating SIRTs, but a little less restrictive and more day to day flexibility.

I would like to know if anyone here has tried it and has any feedback on how it compares to the weightloss from doing strict EOD rotations.

Last edited by LifeIsGood2013; 01-17-2014 at 01:15 PM..
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Old 01-17-2014, 01:25 PM   #4
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Would be interesting to know! I don't set much store by SIRT anyway, I know this may sounds pretty blasphemous to some of the JUDDDrs I'm going to check to see if there are any forums on this topic!
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Old 01-17-2014, 02:52 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdforshort View Post
Would be interesting to know! I don't set much store by SIRT anyway, I know this may sounds pretty blasphemous to some of the JUDDDrs I'm going to check to see if there are any forums on this topic!
Would you let me know if you find any?
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Old 01-17-2014, 03:01 PM   #6
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Sure!
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Old 01-17-2014, 03:02 PM   #7
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dr. johnson states in his book that you can keep the SIRT1 going even with 75%. "...eating 75% of required calories every day activates the SIRT1-mediated calorie restriction mechanism, and we believe that this level of restriction for a 36-hour period of lower energy, as provided by the Alternate-Day Diet, is sufficient to turn on SIRT1, although not as intensely as lower intakes on the down day." "The Alternate-Day Diet" 2013
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Old 01-17-2014, 03:08 PM   #8
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But you don't want the SIRTs flowing every day, right? You want to turn it off with higher calorie days in between, from what I understand.

I looked at calorie cycling and I'm not sure I could do it, as I'm supposed to start out with 1038 calories for the first 3 wks *every* day. I can handle eod low calories much better, I think. I hope this plan works well for you!
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Old 01-17-2014, 03:19 PM   #9
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You gotta do whatever works for you but this looks unnecessarily complicated to me.
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Old 01-17-2014, 03:27 PM   #10
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I did JUDDD to get to goal, but I've been informally calorie cycling in my 3+ years maintenance. I gather from your posts that there is some type of specific plan involved, but that's not what I do. I simply know my maintenance level and eat more or less on various days.

I do this because with age and medical issues, my maintenance calorie level is very low (about 1,100). That's difficult to do consistently every day, but by giving myself some much lower days, I have calories to go higher on other days.

I actually 'count' every day (by now it's as natural as bruising my teeth), but I don't really try to do a calorie level for each day specifically. Instead, if I find myself going over 1,100 on a Sunday, for example, I may deduct those calories from Monday--or Tuesday. Sometimes I plan a low-calorie day in advance, knowing that I have something special ahead and will want to have a 'calorie cushion.'

This is actually harder than JUDDD because it requires more self-discipline. It would be very easy to let the higher-calorie days become the norm--and gain because I'm the one making all the 'rules.' Also keep in mind that unlike most of you, I don't really have UDs that are above 1700 cal. I try to keep my higher days to 1500 max, because I don't want to have to cut more than 400 cal for a lower day. [I eat very low carb all the time.]

However, I find this very workable in terms of maintaining my weight--and I have such a fear of re-gaining that it's actually easy for me.
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Old 01-17-2014, 03:53 PM   #11
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I wasn't thinking about following an already laid out plan, per se, rather I thought I would figure out what my total calories were for the week during JUDDD that kept me maintaining and/or losing just slightly, and then cycling based on that total. ie. if my total cals for week = 10,000 (just using a round number not my actual totals as I haven't calculated it yet)

10,000

M - 900
T - 1300
W - 1700
TH - 1400
F - 1800
S - 1000
S - 1900

It sounds good in theory, just wondering if it would work to shed a few pounds.
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Old 01-17-2014, 04:04 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo41 View Post
I actually 'count' every day (by now it's as natural as bruising my teeth), but I don't really try to do a calorie level for each day specifically. Instead, if I find myself going over 1,100 on a Sunday, for example, I may deduct those calories from Monday--or Tuesday. Sometimes I plan a low-calorie day in advance, knowing that I have something special ahead and will want to have a 'calorie cushion.'
I'm a counter as well and don't find it cumbersome in the least. I also like being able to give a higher calorie value to days when I know it's near impossible for me to stay on track such as the weekends. I don't have a problem scaling back during the week to allot for going over on Sat and Sun, I pretty much do that naturally now anyway, but I really don't feel mentally prepared to dive in to scaling back to 500 or under EOD. If one day I don't feel like I need much to eat then that day would essentially turn into a DD or at least a lower calorie day and I could use the extras as I see fit, if necessary, throughout the course of the week. For me it's the dread of knowing EOD is a DD. With calorie cycling I think it could help me to not focus so much on what type of day I have to have, which is where the dread comes from.
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Old 01-17-2014, 04:20 PM   #13
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It's certainly worth a try, LIG! I will be interested in hearing about your progress.
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Old 01-17-2014, 06:30 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarygirl View Post
But you don't want the SIRTs flowing every day, right? You want to turn it off with higher calorie days in between, from what I understand.

I looked at calorie cycling and I'm not sure I could do it, as I'm supposed to start out with 1038 calories for the first 3 wks *every* day. I can handle eod low calories much better, I think. I hope this plan works well for you!
I couldn't do that either, Cindy! I just read a synopsis of it and they basically explained it as LIG is planning. Which might work to shake things up a bit or for maintenance! I just did my proper potato hack today, so I'm going to give it a couple of days and see how I feel first then think of embarking on any other plan. There is Cal cycling, carb cycling and what not! But JUDDD does seem the simplest except when some days become big bears. Cindy, You have at least your DD under control, I seem to be having problems with both!
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Old 01-18-2014, 05:47 AM   #15
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Okay, I'm the biggest "tester of plans" around here lately (but only since I started maintaining). I did the Spike Diet, which is a form of calorie cycling, and maintained well, with even a small initial loss. I've done TDEE (well, TDEE - 15% for me because I know I can't maintain with TDEE) and tried to just average it over the week, which ended up naturally falling into a calorie cycling pattern. It also worked well.

I personally think it can't hurt to try it out and see what happens. Just make sure you don't have very many lower days together, as that's when you have to worry about metabolism being influenced, if that hasn't been disproven by now, I can never keep it straight.
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Old 01-18-2014, 05:59 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LifeIsGood2013 View Post
I wasn't thinking about following an already laid out plan, per se, rather I thought I would figure out what my total calories were for the week during JUDDD that kept me maintaining and/or losing just slightly, and then cycling based on that total. ie. if my total cals for week = 10,000 (just using a round number not my actual totals as I haven't calculated it yet)

10,000

M - 900
T - 1300
W - 1700
TH - 1400
F - 1800
S - 1000
S - 1900

It sounds good in theory, just wondering if it would work to shed a few pounds.
what you are doing is about like what i've done. i have found that taking the average for JUDDD, and eating that on a daily basis, does not end up with a loss. there is something scientific about the ups/downs. if it isn't SIRT1's then it's something else. whatever it is, i love it. is it the combination of upswing and the downswing, too, perhaps?

this is what i've been doing, as leo41, maintaining. i feel almost like i'm treading water/weight, but at least i'm not gaining. and if you could actually lose weight and you're happy with the varied calories, that'd be great. let us know how that goes.

with me, with still such a long row to hoe, i'm no longer in a rush to get the rest of my weight off (well, most of the time!). so i'm playing it by ear, while maintaining. i do like your idea, LIG, because life isn't always the same. i no longer feel such a strong need to decline fun get togethers because "this is a down day!" if i am at least at the 75% marker, so be it. and in the end, i do believe that as long as we have a calorie deficit, we're doing good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeirasMom View Post
Just make sure you don't have very many lower days together, as that's when you have to worry about metabolism being influenced, if that hasn't been disproven by now, I can never keep it straight.
dr. varady states over and over that putting your lower days together is not the true problem. the problem is if we lose muscle. so the greater issue is to keep exercising.
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Old 01-18-2014, 06:06 AM   #17
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When I kept a food journal for a while a few years ago, I was eating about 60g carb, which I kept pretty consistent from day to day, but, without making any particular effort to control them, my calories varied between 800 and 2000ish. I am pretty sure that my up day calories now vary a lot too, but I’m not going back to counting if there’s any way to avoid it.
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Old 01-18-2014, 06:44 AM   #18
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I do calorie cycling, specifically for recomposition (lose fat, build muscle) and there is absolutely nothing complicated about what I do. I guess there are complicated protocols out there, but my cycles are tied directly to exercise. Rest days I eat at a deficit and workout days I eat either at maintenance or at a surplus. All based on my TDEE and activity level.

This way I have the fuel for workouts and muscle building and on rest days I'm taping into my fat stores to make up the difference in my caloric needs based on my TDEE. The overall swing between days is usually about 1,000 calories.

You can do both days at a deficit but it would be more about burning fat than building muscle at that point.

If you are not combining exercise with calorie cycling I think just sticking to JUDDD just at a higher percent for the DD's to start would be much more manageable and sustainable.
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