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Old 01-29-2014, 09:47 AM   #91
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I agree, Slow, that the diversity of our results is very interesting. I am now bent on maintaining my muscle mass for the rest of my loss journey, and hopefully even building it.

I also agree with Mike about your getting a second test. I just simply can't believe that you have that much fat, and that little LBM. Where exactly would it be hiding? Your picture shows a very slim, trim woman, so it's not in your limbs. You've had medical confirmation and your waist circumference shows it's not hiding around your organs. It most certainly isn't in your head, as proven by your knowledgeable posts and your ability to digest and summarize complicated medical studies (thanks for that!).
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Old 01-29-2014, 09:58 AM   #92
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I just found out that an imaging center near me does the DXA body composition scan for $95 with $75 follow ups. That isn't pocket change but seems doable. Since I am turning 50 here in a few days, it seems like a good time for a baseline.
Well, the accounting dept didn't have a problem with this, so I think I will get it done. I will probably wait until March, though. I hate driving to Spokane, especially this time of year so will wait until the chance of snow diminishes. Besides, I have to go to Spokane for other reasons each of the next two weeks. That's my quota for the month.
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Old 01-29-2014, 12:52 PM   #93
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looking forward to hearing of your results.
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Old 01-29-2014, 01:28 PM   #94
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looking forward to hearing of your results.
I'm not sure I am looking forward to the results, though.
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Old 01-29-2014, 09:56 PM   #95
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I agree, Slow, that the diversity of our results is very interesting. I am now bent on maintaining my muscle mass for the rest of my loss journey, and hopefully even building it.

I also agree with Mike about your getting a second test. I just simply can't believe that you have that much fat, and that little LBM. Where exactly would it be hiding? Your picture shows a very slim, trim woman, so it's not in your limbs. You've had medical confirmation and your waist circumference shows it's not hiding around your organs. It most certainly isn't in your head, as proven by your knowledgeable posts and your ability to digest and summarize complicated medical studies (thanks for that!).
I third the vote for a second test. I just can not believe these results. Are we sure we're using the right units - kg vs lbs. Just kidding, but, really. Either your test is way off or our tests are way off. I just can't wrap my head around it.

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Well, the accounting dept didn't have a problem with this, so I think I will get it done. I will probably wait until March, though. I hate driving to Spokane, especially this time of year so will wait until the chance of snow diminishes. Besides, I have to go to Spokane for other reasons each of the next two weeks. That's my quota for the month.
Spo'Compton? Do they still call it that? We did when I was in school (WSU). As much as we liked to get off the Palouse and go to the "big city" - I usually would have rather waited until I had to come back to Western WA anyway. I think I went to Spokane maybe 5 times in the 7 years I was at WSU.

Thanks for the tip on Googling. I will look at what I can find.
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Old 01-30-2014, 12:05 AM   #96
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Carol, so glad you had a good experience too. I love that encouraging example of the person who lost 13 pounds of fat and gained 2 pounds of LBM!

I recommend it to everyone! It's really such good information to have, and for me it was also the reminder that the number on the scale really can't tell you what's happening with your lean body mass. There's the great scenario like the woman Carol mentioned who lost two more pounds of fat than she thought she did based on the scale because she gained LBM. The not-as-optimal scenario is when scale losses include more LBM than we want.

SS, I agree that your test results are so inexplicable that we really need a recount! If you get the same thing, no worse off. If the first result was wrong though, it would be amazing news, and such a relief, right?

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Old 01-30-2014, 07:12 AM   #97
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Spo'Compton? Do they still call it that? We did when I was in school (WSU). As much as we liked to get off the Palouse and go to the "big city" - I usually would have rather waited until I had to come back to Western WA anyway. I think I went to Spokane maybe 5 times in the 7 years I was at WSU.
Some people call it that. I like Spokane, though I liked it better when I worked there the summer of '84. It was more of a cowboy town then. It definitely has more of an urban feel now though there is still a dearth of cultural activities.

WSU, huh? I don't know if I can like you anymore. I'm an OSU grad. Go Beavers!

My son is a Freshman at UI, so it seems like I am forever going through Pullman on our way to see him in Moscow.
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Old 01-30-2014, 01:55 PM   #98
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Some people call it that. I like Spokane, though I liked it better when I worked there the summer of '84. It was more of a cowboy town then. It definitely has more of an urban feel now though there is still a dearth of cultural activities.

WSU, huh? I don't know if I can like you anymore. I'm an OSU grad. Go Beavers!

My son is a Freshman at UI, so it seems like I am forever going through Pullman on our way to see him in Moscow.
Huh...OSU? Well...it is another Ag school so I guess I can overlook it. Now if you'd gone to UW - different story.

My hubby went to UI so I can't hate on the Vandals too much. Next time you go visit, if you haven't stopped at Cougar Country, do so. Make sure its an UD though. Best. Burgers. Ever!!
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Old 01-30-2014, 02:31 PM   #99
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Huh...OSU? Well...it is another Ag school so I guess I can overlook it. Now if you'd gone to UW - different story.

My hubby went to UI so I can't hate on the Vandals too much. Next time you go visit, if you haven't stopped at Cougar Country, do so. Make sure its an UD though. Best. Burgers. Ever!!
I always wear a OSU sweatshirt when I go to see my son. How much trouble would I be in if I stopped at Cougar Country?

When we were checking out colleges with my son, we went through Wazzu's college day (it was the day after Vandal Day). I wore an orange Beaver shirt under my jacket and got the stinkeye from a couple of guys that were helping direct people where to go.
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Old 01-31-2014, 09:05 PM   #100
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I always wear a OSU sweatshirt when I go to see my son. How much trouble would I be in if I stopped at Cougar Country?

Oh, quite a bit. Lets just say that it would be an UUAD. Best burgers, best fries, best fry sauce and best ice cream/shakes EVER. But worth it at least one time through.

When we were checking out colleges with my son, we went through Wazzu's college day (it was the day after Vandal Day). I wore an orange Beaver shirt under my jacket and got the stinkeye from a couple of guys that were helping direct people where to go.
Well, I've always been a UW hater. I went through vet school at the time when the OSU students still spent 1.5 years with us, and have several really good friends still from OSU. So, I can't quite bring myself to hate on the Beavers.
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Old 02-22-2014, 06:08 PM   #101
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I got my latest body analysis done today.

I've lost 9 pounds of fat and 3 pounds of LBM since November, and my LBM is down to 150. I'm a bit disappointed, TBH. I'm still basically on track to lose ~10 lbs of LBM by the time I get to goal, but this is the biggest loss of LBM I've had to date.

Hopefully, I'll be able to lose more fat when I retest in June, and won't have had any more surgeries. That should help keep things on track.
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Old 02-22-2014, 07:40 PM   #102
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Ntombi, I don't want to lose any lean body mass either! I totally understand feeling a bit disappointed. They say it's inevitable, but you've done a phenomenal job of maintaining lean body mass all along and even in this interval have lost three times as many pounds of fat as LBM. And you're still on track for your goal! I am sure that surgeries play a large part...the recuperation time is no doubt not friendly to maintaining LBM. I think SlowSure experienced something like this as well?

So do you get tested every three months? Have you ever experienced your body composition improving a lot more than the scale shows?

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Old 02-22-2014, 08:02 PM   #103
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I get tested about every four months.

Absolutely, each time, my BF% gets much better than just shows on the scale, and last time I went down two sizes while only losing ~10 lbs, I think. That's solely due to the changing shape of my body. I mean, I'm barely under 300 lbs now, so to lose two clothing sizes "should" take at least 40 lbs, KWIM?

Overall, I'm extremely happy I started tracking my body composition as early as I did, and I can't complain about my long-term progress. This one result is just a little less successful than I was hoping for.

I have to say that between surgery and illness and just plain inattention, I've been less successful with reaching my daily protein goals in the last few months, and now I'm seeing the results. I would say I let it get down to about 75-80% compliance, rather than the 95ish% I reached before.

This is the kick in the ass I needed, and I'm not going to let it happen again. I KNOW that I have to be vigilant with it, since I can't exercise, so no matter what, I will be.

Must repeat to myself: "Better to keep it than to rebuild it." "Better to keep it than to rebuild it." "Better to keep it than to rebuild it." "Better to keep it than to rebuild it." "Better to keep it than to rebuild it."
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Old 02-23-2014, 11:37 AM   #104
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The correlation with protein is very interesting!
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Old 02-24-2014, 10:19 AM   #105
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Ntombi, I agree that you've been an inspiring example of maintaining LBM while losing fat. And yours is a great reminder to get that protein in. I've been trying hard, but do better some days than others. This will help me be more consistent.

How many grams of protein do you shoot for? Is there a grams per pound of LBM formula you use? I've been shooting for 1 gram per pound of LBM on UDs - can't usually get anywhere near that on DDs, although I get in as much as I can.

Thanks! And BTW, great job on your fat loss and your size loss! Very exciting!
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Old 02-24-2014, 11:36 PM   #106
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Dr. Bernstein recommends 1-1.5gm of protein per kilo of ideal weight.
Drs. Phinney and Volek also say the range is 1 to 1.5, and say it could be higher for some folks.
Kwasnieski says 1 g protein per kg ideal body weight

I use the ranges set by Drs. Phinney and Volek, and I know it works for me. My loose protein goal is about 120g/day, which is about 1.4g/kg of ideal weight. My ideal weight (based on BF%) is about 190 lbs, which is 86kg. 1.4x86=~120.

I've been using these numbers for this entire weight loss journey, and my blood ketones test within range eating at that level of protein and fewer than 20g of carbs.

If I used the 1g/pound of LBM, my goal would be about 150g/day. I sometimes eat even more than that, but I don't aim for that much.
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Old 02-25-2014, 02:40 AM   #107
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Hi guys, I thought I'll log my results here too so that we can all refer back if and when we need to: My Body fat test was done on 2/11/2014

Height 5'4"
Weight 155.4
Lean Lb 102.6
Fat Lb 52.8
Body Fat 34 %

I'm trying to go with 0.8-1.0g of protein/lb of LBM, sometimes I reach that number on UDs sometimes I fall short. DDs end up being mostly carb which I really need to change.

Ntombi, maybe your way of calculation is better because no matter what, when we lose weight some LBM is going to go. They told me I would have to eat a minimum of 1509 calories/day if I wanted to keep the current LBM and I know for a fact that I definitely wouldn't lose any wgt whatsoever if I ate that!
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Old 02-25-2014, 03:11 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ntombi View Post
This one result is just a little less successful than I was hoping for.

I have to say that between surgery and illness and just plain inattention, I've been less successful with reaching my daily protein goals in the last few months, and now I'm seeing the results. I would say I let it get down to about 75-80% compliance, rather than the 95ish% I reached before.
...
Must repeat to myself: "Better to keep it than to rebuild it." "Better to keep it than to rebuild it." "Better to keep it than to rebuild it." "Better to keep it than to rebuild it." "Better to keep it than to rebuild it."
That Fat Free Mass to Fat Mass ratio of loss is an aberration for you and I hope that it remains an outlier in your progress - much as it's understandable with the chronic infections, surgeries etc.

And, yes - "Better to keep it than to rebuild it." "Better to keep it than to rebuild it." "Better to keep it than to rebuild it." "Better to keep it than to rebuild it." "Better to keep it than to rebuild it." should be a banner headline on every popular media item about weight loss and it should be unthinkable to discuss weight loss without this.

Quote:
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My Body fat test was done on 2/11/2014

Height 5'4"
Weight 155.4
Lean Lb 102.6
Fat Lb 52.8
Body Fat 34 %

I'm trying to go with 0.8-1.0g of protein/lb of LBM, sometimes I reach that number on UDs sometimes I fall short. DDs end up being mostly carb which I really need to change.

...They told me I would have to eat a minimum of 1509 calories/day if I wanted to keep the current LBM and I know for a fact that I definitely wouldn't lose any wgt whatsoever if I ate that!
As you've identified, it may well be helpful for you to shift the emphasis of your DD kcals to protein rather than carb sources - it's certainly worth an experiment. I'm not sure what I think about it but there is a protein leverage hypothesis that argues that eating below a level of protein (15% of kcal intake) leads people to overcompensate on fat + carbs (typically, in a standard, mixed diet) in a form of protein-seeking behaviour (you're looking for more protein in low-protein, kcal-dense sources). However, if somebody eats at least 15% of their kcal intake from readily available protein sources, then they tend to decrease the consumption of other macronutrients (fats + carbs) because they're not actively seeking more protein.

Unless you have contraindications, you might be well advised to base your calculations on Ntombi's as there is some reasonable trial evidence to indicate that protein needs are higher during WLM.
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Old 02-25-2014, 09:05 AM   #109
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Thanks for this info, Ntombi. And for your input too JD and Slow.

So if I use your formula, Ntombi, I need to get at least 52 grams per day to maintain my LBM. And I'm actively trying to build muscle, so my goal of 1 gram per pound of LBM (107) may help me to do that.

Great info!
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Old 02-25-2014, 01:52 PM   #110
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And, yes - "Better to keep it than to rebuild it." "Better to keep it than to rebuild it." "Better to keep it than to rebuild it." "Better to keep it than to rebuild it." "Better to keep it than to rebuild it." should be a banner headline on every popular media item about weight loss and it should be unthinkable to discuss weight loss without this.

As you've identified, it may well be helpful for you to shift the emphasis of your DD kcals to protein rather than carb sources - it's certainly worth an experiment. I'm not sure what I think about it but there is a protein leverage hypothesis that argues that eating below a level of protein (15% of kcal intake) leads people to overcompensate on fat + carbs (typically, in a standard, mixed diet) in a form of protein-seeking behaviour (you're looking for more protein in low-protein, kcal-dense sources). However, if somebody eats at least 15% of their kcal intake from readily available protein sources, then they tend to decrease the consumption of other macronutrients (fats + carbs) because they're not actively seeking more protein.

Unless you have contraindications, you might be well advised to base your calculations on Ntombi's as there is some reasonable trial evidence to indicate that protein needs are higher during WLM.
That is so true! Since we have been consciously eating low fat and low salt for the past 25+ years, I end up with mostly carbs which leads to more cravings! Ntombi's calculations, it is then! Thank you for your input, as always.
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Old 12-11-2014, 11:04 AM   #111
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I'm grateful to SlowSure for pointing me to this thread. Back in April I had a Bod Pod body composition test, and got a worrying result--37.9% body fat. And this was back when I weighed 144, not anywhere near my highest weight of around 170. I was very upset to get this result--I'd already lost 26 pounds, and yet my body fat ratio was unhealthy.

Yesterday I had another Bod Pod test--22.1% body fat. If this is correct, since April 25 I've lost 27.6 pounds of fat and gained 5.2 pounds of muscle. I may have lost most of the fat from April 25 through the summer, when my weight went down about twenty pounds, and I may have gained most of the muscle since the end of August, while I've been doing a weight-training class twice a week, more or less. But I'm still surprised that I managed to put on that much muscle. (And reading doubts about the reliability of the Bod Pod here makes me wonder.)
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Old 12-11-2014, 11:06 AM   #112
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Those are some amazing results! Even if they're not 100% accurate, it's pretty obvious that you have lost a good deal of fat and gained some great muscle. All good news!
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Old 12-12-2014, 06:01 PM   #113
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Wow! That's great work and great results on your latest test! I agree with Carol that even if it's not perfectly accurate, there's no doubt you're on the right track.

I wouldn't want to get mine redone right now because it would be bad news for sure! Hoping to fix that in 2015 ....
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Old 12-13-2014, 07:46 AM   #114
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I wouldn't want to get mine redone right now because it would be bad news for sure! Hoping to fix that in 2015 ....
You took the words right outta my mouth!
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