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Old 01-12-2014, 12:55 AM   #31
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Old 01-12-2014, 02:52 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Planelman View Post
We are issued instruction manuals and a set of rules at birth that we are never supposed to deviate from.
Oh. Wow.

So much to think about here...and so very important to think about (and act on) it.

Christina, thank you for opening this discussion. Everyone's explanations have clarified a whole new WOT (way of thinking) (if we have WOLs and WOEs, surely we can have WOTs) for me.

I had a friend who said, "I don't care if I weigh 500 pounds as long as I fit in a size 8." I like the idea of converting that to "I don't care if I weigh 500 pounds as long as my body fat is under xx%."
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Old 01-12-2014, 02:53 AM   #33
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Very interesting!
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Old 01-12-2014, 05:02 AM   #34
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That is so interesting. I need to check here in OKC to see if there is anything like this.

I would love to find out what my body fat percentage is. Since I lost so much weight back 9yrs ago I have extra skin. I am also very very pear shaped. When I got down to about 136 at one time everyone was telling me I looked anorexic and really sick. I know I had lost a lot of muscle. But I looked so skinny up top but yet I still had extra skin on my thighs, butt and stomach. At this point I know its not going to tighten up. The only way to get rid of it is surgery, which will never happen. So with that, it is so hard for me to know what weight I should be. I have to account for the skin that isn't going anywhere.
I have been lifting weight now for a couple of years too and lots of muscle. You cant see any of it under my legs or butt but it is there. I can get tell when I tighten up. Right now, because I am overweight, the weight I gained is almost all in my legs so some of the skin is filled up. My upper body is very muscular. I like that but I don't like the extra weight on my legs.
It is very frustrating to have the skin and not know what weight I really need to be at. It is very very frustrating. Especially with me having so much trouble losing weight right now. I would love to have that testing done.
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Old 01-12-2014, 09:08 AM   #35
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(She says, confidently, even though she's literally 100lbs away from this)...
You keep that confidence Soren! This is the place to do that ... we have the JBs that prove it.

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Chris, Thank you, the mobile is coming to our town in February, so I'm going to check this out! You should ask for referral free-bees!
I think it is such valuable info ... excited it's coming to you!

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Originally Posted by gotsomeold View Post
So much to think about here...and so very important to think about (and act on) it.

Christina, thank you for opening this discussion. Everyone's explanations have clarified a whole new WOT (way of thinking) (if we have WOLs and WOEs, surely we can have WOTs) for me.

I had a friend who said, "I don't care if I weigh 500 pounds as long as I fit in a size 8." I like the idea of converting that to "I don't care if I weigh 500 pounds as long as my body fat is under xx%."
I love new WOTs! I knew I had questions about the BMI as a large-framed person who has sometimes wished I didn't tend to get such bulky muscles, but I had sort of an epiphany when the guy doing the test told me that if he gained 3 pounds he would be considered obese by the BMI ... but he is a healthy body fat according to the hydrostatic, and he looked fit and a perfect healthy weight ... nowhere near obese or even overweight.

Yennie, I just noticed that we are the same height and our new revised goals are only a pound apart. And you are so very close! I was trying to find the thread about your test, but no luck.

It seems the body fat testing would also help those of you who are in the enviable (to me) position of not being sure if your current weight should be goal or if you should go lower, or if your goal might be to add lean body mass.

Last edited by calichris; 01-12-2014 at 09:09 AM..
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Old 01-13-2014, 06:04 AM   #36
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You've got some very interesting and helpful results to guide your goals, WOE and exercise as you move towards where you want to be, Christina. As per Ntombi, Yennie, and others, there may well be little correlation between BMI and the body fat level at which you feel active and comfortable.

I so wish that I had access to a hydrostatic test My BMI is <21 and yet my BF% is approx. 42% (by BodPod, while every online calculator puts me in the early 20% or so by measurement). It wouldn't gnaw at me quite so much were it not for the metabolic implications (tho' my waist is reliably <26inches) and what it implies about my LBM (which would be abnormally low for someone 30yrs older than I am).

At some point, I will get a DXA but it's not at all local to me which adds to the costs of an already expensive assessment. And, it's a maxim that you should never bother running a test if you don't know what to do with the results. Which is why it's so helpful that Ntombi, Yennie, Christina and others have results that can guide their decisions.
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Old 01-13-2014, 08:43 PM   #37
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Chris, Thank you, the mobile is coming to our town in February, so I'm going to check this out! You should ask for referral free-bees!
If its the same company I did (which I think it is) then there is a referral bonus. I think its $5 off your initial test, and then Christina would get $5 off her next test. But you'd have to know full names, etc.

This test is the coolest thing ever.

My post on my body fat testing experience

It was in How Did (or Do) You Pick Your Goal thread. I had to search for it - I couldn't remember where I wrote it up. But I do remember that &@^% steer I wrote about in the first few sentences...and he's now happily in my freezer, blasted thing!!!!!
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Old 01-13-2014, 10:21 PM   #38
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Thank you so much Yennie, I read the recap of your report. It'll be interesting to see what mine is like. I'll have to do it behind my DH's back because everything I do with diet or exercise, he just says, "you are crazy". He thinks you should be able to cut down your intake, without measuring or logging just like he can. Add 30 mins fast walk/day and you'll be fit for life! Easy for him to say as he has always been a tall skinny mini and eats to survive (not for the enjoyment) so what does he know!

I have to say one thing though he's the one who recommended I should start fasting which got me thinking about the fasts that Hindus do in India and remain pretty lean. I have a friend here who does no-salt, no grain, just small one meal a day fast on Monday or Tuesday, and has maintained her weight for years! The Brahmins (Hindu priests) gave these edicts to woman on religious bases, this day is for this deity for well being of husband, and this day is for the child, home etc etc. That way the woman wouldn't deviate (like we do) and vola you have trim wives/daughters! Then the education and city living materialized and now they are heading in the wrong direction too. But then I digress and seemed to have hi jacked the thread! Sorry!
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Old 01-13-2014, 10:37 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by jdforshort View Post
I have to say one thing though he's the one who recommended I should start fasting which got me thinking about the fasts that Hindus do in India and remain pretty lean. I have a friend here who does no-salt, no grain, just small one meal a day fast on Monday or Tuesday, and has maintained her weight for years! The Brahmins (Hindu priests) gave these edicts to woman on religious bases, this day is for this deity for well being of husband, and this day is for the child, home etc etc. That way the woman wouldn't deviate (like we do) and vola you have trim wives/daughters!
Just curious, Do the Brahmins also give edicts to the men to fast for the family?
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Old 01-13-2014, 11:21 PM   #40
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Just curious, Do the Brahmins also give edicts to the men to fast for the family?
Not that I know of! I guess since they were the bread winners they were exempt! On the other hand, women don't have to do it if they don't want their husbands/children/home to be happy and well Moral blackmail there! This was a sort of cure for all ailments, penance of one kind or another. Brahmin's way of making money, you go to him with your problem and he'd tell you to do a fast and "pooja (worship)" which always involved giving something to the priest.
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Old 01-13-2014, 11:49 PM   #41
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It really impressed me in Michael Moseley's Eat, Fast, and Live Longer episode when there was a really old (90 or 100 years old?) Indian man running a marathon who had been fasting for spiritual reasons as a lifelong practice. (I don't remember how often he fasted or for how long ... but he was incredibly healthy for his age).
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Old 01-14-2014, 04:33 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by jdforshort View Post
Thank you so much Yennie, I read the recap of your report. It'll be interesting to see what mine is like. I'll have to do it behind my DH's back because everything I do with diet or exercise, he just says, "you are crazy". He thinks you should be able to cut down your intake, without measuring or logging just like he can. Add 30 mins fast walk/day and you'll be fit for life! Easy for him to say as he has always been a tall skinny mini and eats to survive (not for the enjoyment) so what does he know!

I have to say one thing though he's the one who recommended I should start fasting which got me thinking about the fasts that Hindus do in India and remain pretty lean. I have a friend here who does no-salt, no grain, just small one meal a day fast on Monday or Tuesday, and has maintained her weight for years! The Brahmins (Hindu priests) gave these edicts to woman on religious bases, this day is for this deity for well being of husband, and this day is for the child, home etc etc. That way the woman wouldn't deviate (like we do) and vola you have trim wives/daughters! Then the education and city living materialized and now they are heading in the wrong direction too. But then I digress and seemed to have hi jacked the thread! Sorry!
I remember this so vividly from when we lived in India, many of my friends should be doing Pooja for their husbands and of course, because it was religious, none of us dreamt of trying to cajole them out of it, with remarks like 'Oh a little bite won't hurt'.

Food for thought.
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Old 01-14-2014, 06:03 AM   #43
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You've got some very interesting and helpful results to guide your goals, WOE and exercise as you move towards where you want to be, Christina. As per Ntombi, Yennie, and others, there may well be little correlation between BMI and the body fat level at which you feel active and comfortable.

I so wish that I had access to a hydrostatic test My BMI is <21 and yet my BF% is approx. 42% (by BodPod, while every online calculator puts me in the early 20% or so by measurement). It wouldn't gnaw at me quite so much were it not for the metabolic implications (tho' my waist is reliably <26inches) and what it implies about my LBM (which would be abnormally low for someone 30yrs older than I am).

At some point, I will get a DXA but it's not at all local to me which adds to the costs of an already expensive assessment. And, it's a maxim that you should never bother running a test if you don't know what to do with the results. Which is why it's so helpful that Ntombi, Yennie, Christina and others have results that can guide their decisions.
You seem to have no trouble maintaining your goal weight, but of course you don't always talk about your struggles (unlike me ). So, to all appearances your metabolic functioning must be quite sound.
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Old 01-14-2014, 10:01 AM   #44
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I am seriously considering doing the BodPod test soon. We don't have the hydrostatic truck here, or at least it's not scheduled any time soon, and the facilities that do it are across town, and I'm not going to drive 30-40 miles to do this.

But, the BodPod is regularly scheduled just a few miles from me. I'm still debating the cost. It's $79 for three tests, so it's not too bad per test, and would probably help me as I lose these last pounds, to know where I am and when I should/can call goal.

I do need to buy a swimsuit or some spandex shorts and sports bra to do the test, so I'll see what I can find at Goodwill. I'm getting kind of excited about ti!
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Old 01-14-2014, 11:23 AM   #45
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I am seriously considering doing the BodPod test soon. We don't have the hydrostatic truck here, or at least it's not scheduled any time soon, and the facilities that do it are across town, and I'm not going to drive 30-40 miles to do this.

But, the BodPod is regularly scheduled just a few miles from me. I'm still debating the cost. It's $79 for three tests, so it's not too bad per test, and would probably help me as I lose these last pounds, to know where I am and when I should/can call goal.

I do need to buy a swimsuit or some spandex shorts and sports bra to do the test, so I'll see what I can find at Goodwill. I'm getting kind of excited about ti!
Just make sure you read up on the accuracy of any test you do. Some of these tests have as wide a margin of error as the scales you can get to show you BF % at home. Read the positive and negative feedback on the tests so any results you do or don't like can be bounced off of other peoples experiences. And once you pick a test stick with it for follow-ups to gauge progress. It is good that this is a price for multiple tests to encourage the follow-up. Also make note of all the conditions you tested under, time of day, time of month, hydration, DD or UD, food intake, and make sure you are retesting under the same conditions.
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Old 01-14-2014, 12:02 PM   #46
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Yeah, the BodPod is rated as more accurate than BIA or calipers, but much less accurate than the DEXA scan or hydrostatic testing. The latter two are within a percentage point of accuracy with each other.

I'm not saying don't do it, I'm just saying be aware. I used to swear by my BIA scale, because it gave me a result very close to caliper testing I got done at the gym. When I finally got the dunk test, I was appalled to find that the BIA AND caliper results were vastly underestimating my LBM, and overstating my BF% by about 15%. That's a huge amount, but because both were giving me the same results (with different trainers at the calipers), I was confident.

Anyway, just a side note. The BodPod is pretty good. Let us know how it turns out!
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Old 01-14-2014, 12:33 PM   #47
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Just make sure you read up on the accuracy of any test you do. Some of these tests have as wide a margin of error as the scales you can get to show you BF % at home. Read the positive and negative feedback on the tests so any results you do or don't like can be bounced off of other peoples experiences. And once you pick a test stick with it for follow-ups to gauge progress. It is good that this is a price for multiple tests to encourage the follow-up. Also make note of all the conditions you tested under, time of day, time of month, hydration, DD or UD, food intake, and make sure you are retesting under the same conditions.
ExcellentMike, a real food for thought!
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Old 01-14-2014, 12:35 PM   #48
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I'd be interested in what the evidence is that the BodPod is "very" much less accurate than hydrostatic. Everything I've read indicates that they are within 1% of each other, and considered to be basically equal in accuracy. Can you tell me where you found this information? I'd be interested in how old it is too, as I read they've improved the accuracy of the BodPod.
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Old 01-14-2014, 12:35 PM   #49
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Thanks for this thread, Chris. Very interesting! Lots of great comments.
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Old 01-14-2014, 12:41 PM   #50
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I reread my post, and I shouldn't have said it was "much" less accurate. It is less accurate, with BIA and calipers being much less accurate. I don't remember the numbers, but IIRC, it was something like DEXA and hydrostatic were about 98 and 97 percent accurate, respectively, and the BodPod was something like 93-95 percent. Not bad at all, and worth doing, just slightly less accurate than the other two.

I did a lot of research over a year ago, and I'm not sure if I still have any links on my laptop, but I'll check when I'm on it later today.
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Old 01-14-2014, 12:44 PM   #51
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Yes, I'd appreciate that. I don't want to spend that much if it would be worth it to drive further and get "much" more accurate results. Thanks!

Thanks, Mike for the suggestions. I definitely would want to document all the details and replicate them as closely as I can for repeat tests. Great advice!
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Old 01-14-2014, 01:04 PM   #52
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My comment wasn't based off of any hard evidence just forum posts over at another site where people ended up with results that didn't fit their expectations, both above and below. Also where people didn't know what they should/should not do before the test and then wondered if they somehow messed up the results. I use my scale knowing it to be inaccurate, but also knowing that since I started with it and have seen the numbers steadily trend downwards that even with it's inaccuracies I'm making progress in the right direction. I'm sure the bod pod is more accurate than my method and once you get a baseline and go retest you will be able to establish a trend. But make sure you test under the same conditions so your results are not questionable on the 2nd and 3rd test.
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Old 01-14-2014, 04:44 PM   #53
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I just read something interesting as I was trying to find BF testing in my area. Apparently there is a breath test that can be done to predict obesity. According to this article, if a person's gut has a large amount of certain bacteria (Methanobrevibacter smithii), it could lead to obesity. Or, might be present is someone is already obese. The article speculated that a probiotic might be one tool useful for weight loss. Interesting.

The study was conducted by giving participants a syrupy liquid and then testing their breath at intervals over a 2-hour period.
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Old 01-15-2014, 03:43 AM   #54
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You seem to have no trouble maintaining your goal weight, but of course you don't always talk about your struggles (unlike me ). So, to all appearances your metabolic functioning must be quite sound.
I'm being mindful about my maintenance and trying to adopt some principles from Berkeley's Refuse to Regain mindset alongside Anne M Fletcher's keys to being Thin for Life. (I have to say that I loathe 'Thin' in that title as it has the wrong connotations for me.)

My metabolic health is excellent: blood pressure, resting heart rate, blood sugar levels etc. etc. I'm not overtly or even covertly demonstrating the pernicious impacts of carrying in excess of 100 blocks of butter about my person in the form of body fat.

I've spoken to several people about these results. The general consensus is that I can't be carrying that much visceral fat as I have a well-defined and relatively small waistline. I haven't had one done for a while (and there's no justification for repeating it) but I had ultrasound scans to check that the bruising round the internal organs etc. had settled down a while back and there was no undo indication of fat deposition around my liver, pancreas or spleen. (In fact, the radiologist commented that everything was an excellent size and very clear.)

Assuming that I am carrying this level of body fat, despite the unhelpful comments of the operator, I can not be carrying it in the most dangerous areas. The one justification for the horrendous expense of a DXA scan would be that it would confirm that I'm storing the fat in non-visceral areas.

However, assuming it's correct, I have a very low LBM - and that is likely to be a substantial problem in several ways as I age.

Last edited by SlowSure; 01-15-2014 at 03:54 AM..
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Old 01-17-2014, 11:49 AM   #55
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Well, I booked my BodPod appointment for the 29th. I'm actually pretty excited to find out where I really am, and see if my current goal of 140 pounds is realistic or not. I really think knowing one way or the other will help me design a program for going forward in terms of my losses, but also my exercise plan. Can't wait!

Thanks, Christina, for inspiring me to do this.
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Old 01-17-2014, 11:59 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarygirl View Post
I just read something interesting as I was trying to find BF testing in my area. Apparently there is a breath test that can be done to predict obesity. According to this article, if a person's gut has a large amount of certain bacteria (Methanobrevibacter smithii), it could lead to obesity. Or, might be present is someone is already obese. The article speculated that a probiotic might be one tool useful for weight loss. Interesting.

The study was conducted by giving participants a syrupy liquid and then testing their breath at intervals over a 2-hour period.
Dr. Mercola's newsletter is on that subject today.
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Old 01-18-2014, 10:49 AM   #57
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I'm so excited for you Carol! I want to do it again already (the scale just seems so unreliable a measure to me right now)!

Last edited by calichris; 01-18-2014 at 10:50 AM..
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Old 01-18-2014, 11:31 AM   #58
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Thanks Christina! Boy, I hear you on the scale feeling unreliable. It certainly helps us know if we're losing, but no help with whether we're losing the right stuff. I need to know at this point. I'm getting more and more excited.

I was going to re-start my HIIT stationary bike workouts and start some SuperSlow resistance band training this week, but I've decided not to start that until after my test. Then I'll start next month and will be able to tell whether that is helping the next time I test. Plus, my head is just not ready to start that intense stuff again yet, so it's a great excuse.
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Old 01-27-2014, 09:30 AM   #59
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I thought my BodPod test was Wednesday, but it's actually scheduled for tomorrow morning. I was hoping to do it after a DD, but I guess it won't really matter. I'm getting nervous! Wish me luck!
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Old 01-27-2014, 09:51 AM   #60
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WOE: Back to JUDDD!
Good luck! How exciting!
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