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Old 01-13-2014, 05:55 AM   #31
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My MIL has this problem, but I do not. If I eat breakfast I stay full until late afternoon. Not always a good thing.
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Old 01-13-2014, 11:46 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allisonm View Post
Everyone who responded here is combining IF with JUDDD which is a lot like Krista Varady's plan. She says it's more effective to confine eating to an eating window. That fact then makes me wonder how IF compares with IF/JUDDD.
It depends on the person and/or what their DD is like. Once I eat, it makes me want to just eat more. So, I load up on limited fatty drinks (not lowfat, but reduced amounts) throughout the day, then save any food for the evening so I can eat with DH.
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Old 01-13-2014, 01:43 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allisonm View Post
Everyone who responded here is combining IF with JUDDD which is a lot like Krista Varady's plan. She says it's more effective to confine eating to an eating window. That fact then makes me wonder how IF compares with IF/JUDDD.
I noticed that some of the recent published research mentioned that they'd settled on the 12-2 eating window as a way to standardise the duration of the 'abstinence' periods across the participants.

As you say, there's a recent comment on her FB saying that they're evaluating the protocol of one meal v. 2 (with the calories split) and that they're having greater compliance issues with the latter. It's tricky to comment without seeing the protocol. In some of the earlier published studies, they were providing the participants with the DD food (a slice of vegetable pizza or similar). I've no idea what they're serving for the split calorie meals - I could speculate as to why they'd be less satisfying than something we'd choose and might feel unsatisfactory to some of the participants.

I don't want to go off down a rabbit hole of clinical trial design but in order to make sure that you weren't unwittingly getting interference from different food types, if you were feeding one group a 500 kcal controlled piece of vegetable pizza for their 1 meal, you'd probably need to feed the other group a 250kcal piece for their 2 meals or you'd run the risk of presenting confabulators such as different volumes/insulin effects/amounts of fibre/sensory specific satiety etc.

I'm speculating - I don't know what they're doing - but it's astonishing the big effect that relatively small differences can make. And a major factor here might resemble a contemporaneous thread on this board about whether people feel they can manage better with all-liquid DDs than with eating small amounts; and whether people are hungrier after eating breakfast than they were before eating (as per this thread - I am a little with several similar threads discussing related topics so sorry if bits of this are a little untidy).

And, I will say again, I'm not happy about the reporting of some of the participants in some of the published work. I'm genuinely surprised at the relative paucity of reports that are commonplace around here (physiologic cold, constipation etc.).
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Last edited by SlowSure; 01-13-2014 at 01:47 PM..
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Old 01-13-2014, 02:12 PM   #34
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As always Slow, you say what I am thinking, but cannot possibly put into words.
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Old 01-13-2014, 04:55 PM   #35
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Same here, Cindy, although I would try and confuse everyone.
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Old 01-14-2014, 02:55 AM   #36
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Let me begin by saying, Slow, I consider it a positive honor that I returned to LCF in time to see your mind working. You are brilliant and the opinions/information you offer provides us all so many things to think about, so many options to consider incorporating into our individual journeys.

Keep 'em coming!

In the meantime....

vegetable pizza?

VEGETABLE pizza???

vegetable PIZZA?????

VEGETABLE PIZZA???????????

I think I feel a diatribe coming on ..... got to think about it first.
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Old 01-14-2014, 02:57 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gotsomeold View Post
In the meantime....

vegetable pizza?

VEGETABLE pizza???

vegetable PIZZA?????

VEGETABLE PIZZA???????????

I think I feel a diatribe coming on ..... got to think about it first.
They call it salad pizza here. Complete with Italian dressing on the side.
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Old 01-14-2014, 03:26 AM   #38
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If it is pizza I'll eat it.
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Old 01-14-2014, 06:34 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gotsomeold View Post
Let me begin by saying, Slow, I consider it a positive honor that I returned to LCF in time to see your mind working. You are brilliant and the opinions/information you offer provides us all so many things to think about, so many options to consider incorporating into our individual journeys.

Keep 'em coming!

In the meantime....

vegetable pizza?

VEGETABLE pizza???

vegetable PIZZA?????

VEGETABLE PIZZA???????????

I think I feel a diatribe coming on ..... got to think about it first.
Back when I could eat Papa Murphy's pizza, I loved their gourmet vegetarian pizza. It had a Creamy Garlic white sauce and had zucchini, artichoke hearts, spinach, mushrooms, tomatoes and onions. It was amazing.

However, it sounds more like it was some kind of salad with pizza stuff on it, according to Carly. That would be okay, too, but your comment made me think back to the gourmet pizza. (can you tell it's the morning of an UD and I haven't eaten yet? )
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Old 01-14-2014, 07:01 AM   #40
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I'm really glad you started this thread, allisonm. Yesterday was a DD for me and I had an appointment at 10:30 a.m. and errands to run. I didn't eat anything till 6 p.m. Couldn't believe I could do that! I ate 372 calories last night (usually 500 on a DD), but was down 2 1/2 lbs. this morning!

This came out of a decision to try and not eat until lunch on both UDs and DDs. I hadn't realized so many here did that and I've not tried it before (except on DDs). But it is so true for me, too, that I don't really get hungry until I start eating! So today being an UD, I'm not planning to eat till lunch...but looking forward to getting all my calories in after that. I definitely don't have a problem getting my UD calories in ever!
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Old 01-14-2014, 07:05 AM   #41
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Frosty, that sounds to die for!!!

Oh, I 'get' and thoroughly enjoy veggie pizza. I vegetarian meals.

What I don't get is - given so many overweight people are somewhere on the metabolic syndrome journey - why on earth would a vewwy, vewwy high carb food be used as the only meal(s) available to the participants on fasting day?

If a slice of veggie pizza had been my only DD food when I started JUDDD, I gar-own-tee I would have been a colossal fail.
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Old 01-14-2014, 08:29 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gotsomeold View Post
Frosty, that sounds to die for!!!

Oh, I 'get' and thoroughly enjoy veggie pizza. I vegetarian meals.

What I don't get is - given so many overweight people are somewhere on the metabolic syndrome journey - why on earth would a vewwy, vewwy high carb food be used as the only meal(s) available to the participants on fasting day?

If a slice of veggie pizza had been my only DD food when I started JUDDD, I gar-own-tee I would have been a colossal fail.
Agree with all of this.

You know what else is yummy? Pizza served with a sharp green salad on top. Delicious. But I don't eat that way anymore. Low carb is the only thing that makes me feel healthy and normal.

Researchers of the glycemic index say that pizza creates an outsized blood sugar and insulin response -- much higher than can be attributed to its carbs alone. They don't know why.
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Old 01-14-2014, 08:31 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allisonm View Post
Researchers of the glycemic index say that pizza creates an outsized blood sugar and insulin response -- much higher than can be attributed to its carbs alone. They don't know why.
Very interesting!
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Old 01-14-2014, 08:52 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by allisonm View Post

Researchers of the glycemic index say that pizza creates an outsized blood sugar and insulin response -- much higher than can be attributed to its carbs alone. They don't know why.
sigh. of course it does.
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Old 01-14-2014, 09:24 AM   #45
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On DDs I don't eat until dinner. And no wonder I'm ravenous on UDs - I eat breakfast! I'll take not eating breakfast for a spin and see how it goes.

And Carol - your weight loss journey is awesome! Best of luck to you hitting your goal!

Last edited by MrsAndi; 01-14-2014 at 09:25 AM..
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Old 01-14-2014, 09:32 AM   #46
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Oh gosh, Andi, thanks!
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Old 01-15-2014, 06:07 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gotsomeold View Post
Let me begin by saying, Slow, I consider it a positive honor that I returned to LCF in time to see your mind working. ...

Keep 'em coming!

In the meantime....

...
VEGETABLE PIZZA???????????

I think I feel a diatribe coming on ..... got to think about it first.
I hope that it's useful - I sometimes fret that I'm raising issues or disappearing down rabbit holes that aren't always helpful.

Much as I like the suggestions below, it was a pizza base with vegetables. I know that I read this in one of the earlier papers (in some of the earlier work they were using Stouffer (?) and another brand of frozen meals to give to people to control their calorie-counted UD and DD meals, but other studies refer to food being prepared in their metabolic kitchen at the university). Eg, in the Varady et al: Short-term modified alternate-day fasting: a novel dietary strategy for weight loss and cardioprotection in obese adults you can consult Table 1 for the Nutrient composition of fast day meals during the controlled food intake phase. It's a 3-day rotating menu and the meals are
Chicken fettuccini Carrot sticks Cookie
Vegetarian pizza Apple Peanuts
Chicken enchilada Orange Crackers

Each day's kcal total is 450kcals. The nutrients are balanced in accordance with the AHA recommendations so, iirc (and it's annoying that I can't find it in this paper but I know they mentioned it elsewhere), the breakdown is 55% carb: 15% protein: up to 30% fat. In the studies where they don't give people their UD food, an RD advises them on 'healthy choices' such as low-fat dairy, whole grains etc. Each DD menu delivers 60g carbs of which 10g is fibre. Depending on how carb-sensitive someone is, this may or may not be a problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrostyBeav View Post
However, it sounds more like it was some kind of salad with pizza stuff on it, according to Carly. That would be okay, too, but your comment made me think back to the gourmet pizza. ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by gotsomeold View Post
Frosty, that sounds to die for!!!

Oh, I 'get' and thoroughly enjoy veggie pizza. I vegetarian meals.

What I don't get is - given so many overweight people are somewhere on the metabolic syndrome journey - why on earth would a vewwy, vewwy high carb food be used as the only meal(s) available to the participants on fasting day?

If a slice of veggie pizza had been my only DD food when I started JUDDD, I gar-own-tee I would have been a colossal fail.
Quote:
Originally Posted by allisonm View Post
Agree with all of this.
...
Researchers of the glycemic index say that pizza creates an outsized blood sugar and insulin response -- much higher than can be attributed to its carbs alone. They don't know why.
This is an area that concerns me. Maybe young, very active people (especially chaps) can genuinely eat what they want (within appropriate bounds) on DD and UD. However, our experience on this board seems to be that people who have some dieting history or metabolic derangement (whether it's thyroid, pre-diabetes etc.) could only benefit from choosing appropriate foodstuffs on both DD and UD. As per Nancy's signature - JUDDD doesn't care about where your calories come from but your body and metabolism may care a lot as it affects them and may influence your success with JUDDD.

It would be interesting to know which researchers said that about the pizza - altho' much depends on people sensitivities and how the pizza is made. But, despite the wisdom of fat slowing down transit time, and reducing overall glycaemic load of a mixed dish, it sometimes seems as if high fat and high carbs in the same meal will = metabolic derangement for some people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsAndi View Post
And Carol - your weight loss journey is awesome! Best of luck to you hitting your goal!
Couldn't agree more. It's such an inspiration to watch the progress of this.

Last edited by SlowSure; 01-15-2014 at 06:13 AM.. Reason: reformat menu
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Old 02-21-2014, 12:16 PM   #48
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bumping
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Old 02-21-2014, 03:55 PM   #49
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Wow, what a great read!
I would have missed it but for your bump.
Thank you, Green.
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