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Old 01-08-2014, 02:22 PM   #271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sazzie View Post
So agree!

Bottom line, if I had all good days, I wouldn't be back here.

It took some time for me to get back to rotations, but I was determined; I was maintaining so nicely with 5:2 for the longest time, and then........boom.....

Our cruise in October started the downfall, and I just kept going until I got on the scale one day and said......can't be, just can't be.......oh, it was!

I even abandoned the 5:2 routine, and that was the kicker. Stopped my supplements too!

Well, it has been said that everyone needs a break from dieting, but I took it to the enth degree. It was as if I were challenging myself........oh, the mental games we play with ourselves, eh?

JUDDD to the rescue!
I agree about the mental games!
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Old 01-08-2014, 03:19 PM   #272
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More later but briefly to report that we were out this evening, picking up the keys for the London short-term flat-rental. We'll be moving in some items this weekend. I'm very excited and already planning which exhibitions I'll be able to catch before they close within the next 3 weeks.
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Old 01-08-2014, 03:24 PM   #273
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It’s strange, and not what I expected, but I look forward to down days at least as much as up days. I don’t go as low as many of you, but I really enjoy the contrast.
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Old 01-08-2014, 06:59 PM   #274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kissa View Post
How nicely you sum it up Lemontini! Thank you or putting a kind turn on it. Yes I did have a lovely and that is the thought I must hold while suffering a mild hangover and facing my faults.
I see this as such a strength! That you have fun, and then you don't let it get too far away from you and come right back to what you know works.

I am taking a three day, all day class right now, and today was the down day. It's a very tempting environment, with food all over. (I think Soren can relate!) I'm glad that I passed on the cookies, the candy, the chips, but not having lunch would have been awkward, so I did have the main item, a wrap (tortilla with turkey and cheese wrapped inside) for lunch. That will be my only food item of the day, but I don't know how many calories it was. They seem to average about 350-580 calories, so hopefully ok for a DD.

I love the way the JBs support each other no matter where we are at and are willing to share the good, the bad, and the ugly.
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Old 01-08-2014, 07:08 PM   #275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mafiamom View Post
here has been my experience. i know this is so personal for everyone, but i figured i would throw it out there since i was consciously tweeking.

1. DD's at 500 with strict counting of UD's - weight loss
2. DD's at 300 with strict counting of UD's - weight loss
3. DD's below 220 or liquid only and paid no heed to UD's - LOSS
4. DD's creeping up to 500 and paid no heed to UD's - maintained and gained.
Very helpful and interesting info, Colleen! Did one of these stand out as being the most effective for you?

Here's some of my trends that I noticed:
1. 500 cal DDs and uncounted UDs: great losses (at the beginning, when I was 70+ pounds heavier)
2. 500 cal DDs and counted UDs: good losses
3. Recalculated (lowered) UDs and low DDs (300ish) with increased exercise: month-long stall
4. 2000 calorie UDs and 700 calorie DDs: great losses
5. Mostly uncounted UDs and variable down days (500-1000), with some double UDs here and there and UUADs: mostly maintain, until UUADs got more frequent (holidays) then gain.

Last edited by calichris; 01-08-2014 at 07:10 PM..
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Old 01-08-2014, 08:54 PM   #276
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Been a lot of great activity and discussion here! So awesome! I took the time to read through it, you guys are pretty amazing!
Today was a DD for me as well, and I spent most of it at the barn. Easiest place in the world to have a DD. I don't take food, lots of water, very distracted and I don't think about it at all.
Had grilled chicken and a salad for dinner and I want, desperately, to be done. This is my witching hour - hubby at work, monkey in bed and I want popcorn SO BAD! I don't need it, I'm not even hungry, but I want it. So i'm gonna keep drinking tea and maybe turn in early. Must. Fight. Cravings!
On a totally separate and unrelated-to-anything note, I jumped my new youngster today. Just over ground poles but she's pretty amazing!
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Old 01-08-2014, 09:34 PM   #277
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OMG, I you guys. I read everything. I'm on my iPad so typing is not the best, but here we go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by calichris View Post
Cindy - I definitely always listen with interest to what you have to say and value your successful experience and thoughts. And I agree that sometimes we just need to tighten up, period.

SSK-- me too, to both statements!


Krista Varady says in her studies, people were not doing that ... not even close. They were only eating 110% of their UD calories, or for our hypothetical 2000 calorie maintenance person, 2200.

SSK-- I think the bbc special mentioned that number too, the 110%. ...are they the same people
This makes me thing about Cindy's comment about being able to eat more calories on an UD. I wonder if there are other factors at play there, like eating higher caloric foods to make up for mental deprivation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowSure

My final point here is that I think personal experimentation is essential if this is to become part of the fabric of your life. It has to be a WOE that doesn't carry a burdensome cognitive or emotional load such as hypervigilance about every kcal choice.
I heartily agree with this, and not that I preach any weightloss advice to anyone, but if asked, or if preached TO , this is what I say.
To each their own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goner View Post

Now I count nothing - since probably the week before Christmas - I'm worried I have lost my sirts as I am so hungry on DDs. People talk about the magic... is it the nonhunger on DDs? I've never seen a definition of what people mean?
I think, yes. That (not being hungry), and mental alertness where you expect sluggishness, and physical energy when you expect to be zapped. That's in my experience, ymmv. But something to look forward to!
The cold stays though.
Not as bad in the summer!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kissa View Post
Precisely, it is too easy to only reveal the successes. We all need to share the ups and downs.
Ok, so, this is me. If I'm not posting, I'm feeling like I'm failing, not having anything positive to contribute, so I stay away.

Maybe if I hadn't, I wouldn't have regained my whole hard-fought 30lbs...

I will try not to make that mistake in 2014. But if I'm missing from here, someone please come find me!

Quote:
Originally Posted by calichris View Post

I am taking a three day, all day class right now, and today was the down day. It's a very tempting environment, with food all over. (I think Soren can relate!) I'm glad that I passed on the cookies, the candy, the chips, but not having lunch would have been awkward, so I did have the main item, a wrap (tortilla with turkey and cheese wrapped inside) for lunch. That will be my only food item of the day, but I don't know how many calories it was. They seem to average about 350-580 calories, so hopefully ok for a DD.

I love the way the JBs support each other no matter where we are at and are willing to share the good, the bad, and the ugly.
I can totally relate! You're doing better than I do! I'm like, nom nom nom... What? Food? Oh, I've never seen food before! Oh? Chips? Gosh, I have to try this delightful invention! Oooooh... You call this "ravioli"? Why, they don't have this in the rock I live under... Must eat it ALL!!!

What is it about free food that makes us go nutty? And, a work trip is not a "special occasion", especially not when they happen 1x a month or more, for a week!

Did I mention I'm traveling again on the 26th?
Sigh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yennie View Post
.This is my witching hour - hubby at work, monkey in bed and I want popcorn SO BAD! I don't need it, I'm not even hungry, but I want it. So i'm gonna keep drinking tea and maybe turn in early. Must. Fight. Cravings!!
I hear you! I inherited night eating from my dad. I can get in the zone and not do it, but it's a battle every night. Not sleep-eating, just getting out of bed after dh falls asleep and getting a little nosh... Like 200 cals of cheese, and maybe another 200 of pepperettes... That's a whole dd!

I brush and floss, and take nighttime vitamins, and exercise my willpower muscle (was that post from here? I need to share that with you guys if not...).

Woo! That was a marathon for me!

S.
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Old 01-09-2014, 04:59 AM   #278
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Goner- I find that if I have plenty of protein on my Up Day, it helps with the hunger/cravings on the next Down Day. It is worth trying.

SlowSure- very exciting, about your move. And your great attitude. Even if I were moving to my dream home, I don't know if I would be so excited about moving in fewer than 3 WEEKS! I'd be having nightmares about the sorting and packing!

I have said it before, but I will just throw it out there again, that I am one of those annoying/lucky ones who does not count at all on Up Days. But I do know that I eat hearty on them. None of this careful, 1500-Kcal days. I go to town! So for me, I think it has been the low Down Days, AND the swing between Up and Down Days that has done it for me.

Went to the doctor yesterday. He did not say one word about my weight loss. (Granted, he is not my normal doctor[he retired], but still! 35+ pounds down! I did say at the end that I had been losing weight on purpose, and was aiming for 140, and what did he think was a reasonable goal. He whipped out his chart and told me that if I could maintain below 160 that would be good. And even then, when I had brought it up, no mention of what I had done. Grrr. Where's my validation from the medical community, I ask you!)

But the receptionist pounced on me, told me how great I looked, asked how I did it, and said another couple of times what a good job I had done, you look wonderful, etc. SHE knows how to behave!
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Old 01-09-2014, 06:31 AM   #279
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Originally Posted by Sirtain View Post

But the receptionist pounced on me, told me how great I looked, asked how I did it, and said another couple of times what a good job I had done, you look wonderful, etc. SHE knows how to behave!
Sirtain - LOL at your experience with the Doc! Most men are clueless about the etiquette of commenting/supporting weight loss. Eight years ago I was going through airport security and the TSA agent kept looking at my drivers license and then back again at me and then the license and me and back & forth. I got this smug little smile on my face thinking he was going to comment that the picture didn't look like me or something about how different I looked (I was 125 pounds heavier in the license photo). Finally he says "Reedsville. Where exactly in WV is that?" I was crushed!! If the TSA agent had been a woman there definitely would have been some comment about my weight or how great I looked!!!

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Old 01-09-2014, 07:15 AM   #280
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Christina, I also noticed decent losses with 2000/700 EOD. I've been gaining the last week or two, so I think I'm going back to that for now. We'll see, anyway.

So, the bigwigs at work came down from the Bay Area yesterday. We have not been having a good year, and one of our highest paid employees took a new job. Yesterday was her last day. They've opted not to fill her position, but rearrange our office. She was in outside sales. They're moving one of the inside sales guys into her position. I'm a project administrator (which I LOVE), but now I will be doing all my normal job functions, and taking over half of the inside sales guy's stuff, too. The other inside sales guy is taking over the other half of the duties of the newly vacated position. (Did that make sense? It sounds clunky to me.) Anyway, I will be doing a lot more work for the same pay. The other option was that they cut positions, so I guess I'm happy to still have a job. Oh, and BTW, I am NOT a salesperson! Plus, I'm physically moving to the main office, where all my internet activity will be viewable by passersby. I likely won't be on LCF quite as much.
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Old 01-09-2014, 07:18 AM   #281
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I don't like that last bit Dawn, not at all! Otherwise I am sure you will do fine. Shame there is no extra money to go with the extra work, but these days a job is a job.
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Old 01-09-2014, 07:53 AM   #282
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Funny thing to report from last night:

I save my whole snacking budget for late at night so I can stay on plan. Last night I ran out of time so I couldn't get all my walnuts eaten before bed (I buy nuts-in-the-shell and crack them one at a time to slow myself down). But I know that under-eating calories on an UpDay slows down weight loss. So yes, I knew I had to eat MORE calories, and fast. So I ate two additional low-carb (not low-calorie) cookies. It felt so decadent! I love JUDDD. On how many diets are you concerned that you aren't eating enough calories, and as a result have to force down more cookies? lol
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Old 01-09-2014, 08:00 AM   #283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryEllenC View Post
...Finally he says "Reedsville. Where exactly in WV is that?"

Aaauuuggghhhh! Glad it is not just me/my doctor.

Just completed an aggravating piece of paperwork, so I am treating myself with a little forum time before I do the dishes. Some tasks just NEED a reward after them.
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Old 01-09-2014, 08:52 AM   #284
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Boy it must be true dogs have great hearing because the dogs in my salon are all carrying on about something and nobody is outside. QUIET...... fellas! So funny. One starts and then they all chime in.
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Old 01-09-2014, 09:02 AM   #285
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I just wanted to check in. It's been a hectic week and I haven't been able to read and post the way I'd like.

I'm always grateful for this community because I feel that we all hold one another accountable.

I'm going to catch up hopefully at lunchtime. Chat ya later! xoxo.
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Old 01-09-2014, 09:13 AM   #286
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I just love how active this thread has gotten!

back Gracie! It is so easy to just fall back into our old eating habits, darnit! I'm glad you're back to JUDDDing and hanging out with us.

Christina and Colleen, thanks for summarizing your calories and results. I haven't done the analysis, but I have the feeling my results are very similar. I definitely broke through a stall, like Christina, after raising my cals a bit for a maintenance break.

Soren, I know I post a lot less when I'm not doing so well on eating. I've never totally dropped off the board, or JUDDD, but I've had some rough spells, and I seem to not want to own up to it. I'm going to fight that going forward, because you guys have certainly picked me back up and put me back on the horse (that's for you Jen) several times. So I will DEFINITELY come and find you if you go missing again!

Sirtain, that dumb doctor! I'm so glad the receptionist pounced! Why are they so reluctant to encourage us in our weight loss? It's not just men either. I've had female P.A.s and M.D.s give me very bland reactions too, after I brought it up.

Oh Mary Ellen. Makes you want to kick him in the shins! Maybe not such a good idea......

Dawn, I'm so glad your job is safe, but bummer about not being able to be here as much. You are always so much fun and so supportive. Pop in when you can. Sorry about the more work/less pay thing. Seems to be the way the world is going.

Nikki, isn't it a wonderful thing? I LOVE it when I haven't gotten my calories in and I get to have a decadent snack at night! Like you said, what other WOE?

Gosh, Beverly. Make you wonder what they know that you don't. They probably just got each other worked up. Maybe their having their own version of the Jerry Springer show.

Hi Lisa! Glad you'll be hanging with us some today!
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Old 01-09-2014, 09:24 AM   #287
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I tried to quote Soren (twice), but the comment I was wanting to reply to, would not show up? Anyway, in reference to the ability to consume a LOT of calories on UDs...the reason(s)? First of all, I have always had a large appetite (which didn't cause any problems when I was much younger), secondly, it could very well be a mental deprivation thing, in part, but lastly, I always read about seasoned JUDDDers saying that over time, UDs become a lot harder to control and that the urges to eat more are stronger, but satiety takes longer... I really don't know the reasoning behind it, but I see JB's saying the same thing quite a bit (UUUADs), so I know I'm not alone.

In the beginning of JUDDDing, it seemed so phenomenal that I could eat THAT much on a diet, that I rarely went over my UD cals. Now it requires a lot of thought and careful planning to not go over.
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Old 01-09-2014, 09:35 AM   #288
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Ummm yea, I can eat a lot on UDs...it's why I need low DDs or I gain...as is evident RIGHT NOW! I understand completely, LG! XO

I am so behind, so so sorry guys! Been snowed in at my house since Saturday...the kids just went back to school today (and should NOT have, IMO...-15 degrees outside actual temp plus still horribly icy roads, and my teens are out driving in it to school, not happy here!). Anyhoo, have some stuff going on with one of my kids (depression/anxiety stuff) and I'm emotional. I'll spare you all the details. I tried to catch up but I was on page 4 or 5, I DID read it all, though. XOXO

slow, congrats on your upcoming move! How lovely! Maybe that's what I need to do, a quick move! I need to purge my entire basement and yet it never seems to happen. Anyhoo, I know moves can be stressful, but so exciting!!!

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Old 01-09-2014, 09:36 AM   #289
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That’s interesting, Cindy. I remember reading that after a couple of months the appetite suppression was reduced, but I haven’t seen anything about longer term than that. Have you noticed it after any particular time?
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Old 01-09-2014, 09:44 AM   #290
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I think that eating enough on UDs helps to fool the body into thinking that you aren't cutting calories. If you cut calories on both UDs and DDs, it's just a low calorie diet and the body will react by cutting back on the metabolism (I don't like the term "starvation mode" because people use it incorrectly all the time; it's just a metabolic adaptation to chronic low calorie intake.

I have several of Lyle McDonald's books and he talks about how people dieting should take a "diet break" every now and then (anywhere from every four weeks to every 12 weeks depending on how overweight you are) to reset the metabolism. It happens pretty quickly. In a way, we are taking a diet break every other day on JUDDD, so it would make sense that the metabolic adaptation doesn't happen if we keep the calories high enough. Of course, if you do UUADs EOD, then the average calories are close to maintenance and you won't lose.

Just my theory based on what I've read in the past.

Also, I wanted to comment on the talk about people not mentioning weight loss. As a man, I feel like there is a danger zone there to comment on a woman's weight, especially if I don't know her well. If she mentions it first, I will say something but I generally won't if she doesn't say anything.
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Old 01-09-2014, 10:22 AM   #291
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LCG - Yeah, you're right it does make me wonder if they hear something going on that I don't. I don't have to worry about a doorbell because they all let me know if someone comes in.

Melinda - Sorry you've got some kiddo stuff going on. Never easy when you've got one having struggles.
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Old 01-09-2014, 11:28 AM   #292
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Thank you Carol!

It's good to be back in full swing again.

When I was maintaining with 5:2, my appetite was moderate most days and higher on others!
I was amazed at how long I was able to maintain without feeling deprived and enjoying my food. Some days I was eating as few as 1200 calories and as high as 3000 on other days. But, my two DDs were very strict. I honored them without a second thought.

It was when I abandoned all restrictions that my appetite soared to new levels, and for all the wrong things. That's why it was difficult to get back to EOD, but I'm in the swing of rotations now, and I'll assume the same attitude I have when in WLM.......simply do it without fretting and go on with my life.
It's not about will power, it's about want power.
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Old 01-09-2014, 11:45 AM   #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarygirl View Post
I tried to quote Soren (twice), but the comment I was wanting to reply to, would not show up? Anyway, in reference to the ability to consume a LOT of calories on UDs...the reason(s)? First of all, I have always had a large appetite (which didn't cause any problems when I was much younger), secondly, it could very well be a mental deprivation thing, in part, but lastly, I always read about seasoned JUDDDers saying that over time, UDs become a lot harder to control and that the urges to eat more are stronger, but satiety takes longer... I really don't know the reasoning behind it, but I see JB's saying the same thing quite a bit (UUUADs), so I know I'm not alone.

In the beginning of JUDDDing, it seemed so phenomenal that I could eat THAT much on a diet, that I rarely went over my UD cals. Now it requires a lot of thought and careful planning to not go over.
Totally 100% agree.

Melinda!

Lol at the dog thing. They really have supersonic hearing... except when they don't want to pay attention
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Old 01-09-2014, 12:30 PM   #294
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Quote:
I think, yes. That (not being hungry), and mental alertness where you expect sluggishness, and physical energy when you expect to be zapped. That's in my experience, ymmv. But something to look forward to!
The cold stays though.
Thank you Soren for that explanation. I have felt the energy on DDs, when I would think I'd have none from the low calories - so I get that. At 62 yo... LOL... the mental alertness is questionable? Maybe if I can REMEMBER, I'll pay attention to that.
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Old 01-09-2014, 01:01 PM   #295
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i was totally one of those people who couldn't eat on UD's. the first 3 weeks i had to push myself to get in the calories. i even posted about it and everyone was like "not me" LOL!

now i can say i don't struggle at all to eat on UD's. i have to be careful not to over do. i think, like everything else, our bodies eventually adapt and things kind of go back to the way they were before.

bummer. i was loving not feeling the need to eat !
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Old 01-09-2014, 01:12 PM   #296
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Originally Posted by Flutter View Post
Ummm yea, I can eat a lot on UDs...it's why I need low DDs or I gain...as is evident RIGHT NOW! I understand completely, LG! XO

I am so behind, so so sorry guys! Been snowed in at my house since Saturday...the kids just went back to school today (and should NOT have, IMO...-15 degrees outside actual temp plus still horribly icy roads, and my teens are out driving in it to school, not happy here!). Anyhoo, have some stuff going on with one of my kids (depression/anxiety stuff) and I'm emotional. I'll spare you all the details. I tried to catch up but I was on page 4 or 5, I DID read it all, though. XOXO

slow, congrats on your upcoming move! How lovely! Maybe that's what I need to do, a quick move! I need to purge my entire basement and yet it never seems to happen. Anyhoo, I know moves can be stressful, but so exciting!!!

<<<waving to all>>>
sweet Friend! Miss you around here. Hope things get less stressful soon, and don't forget we're here if you need to talk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ailuros View Post
Thatís interesting, Cindy. I remember reading that after a couple of months the appetite suppression was reduced, but I havenít seen anything about longer term than that. Have you noticed it after any particular time?
I can't pinpoint a particular time, no, but it seems to start happening after about a month, and gets worse. I have finally gotten the mindset that I can stick to my UD calories (almost), and I'm not depriving myself (and hopefully I will lose again lol).
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Old 01-09-2014, 01:13 PM   #297
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Originally Posted by Ailuros View Post
I havenít counted at all yet, apart from one DD, just to get a rough idea of what I was doing. (Thatís why I never say Iím doing JUDDD ó because I donít follow any of the rules apart from alternating up and down days.) Iíll start counting if I absolutely have to, but I donít want to live my life weighing and measuring every mouthful. Iíve done it before and burnt out.
This is how I want to do JUDDD. Like Slow Sure beautifully said, this WOE should blend or integrate seamlessly into our lives. I just want to get up and think "oh it's an UD/DD" and go on with my day and not get so stuck in the numbers. In my first JUDDD days (2007), I only counted my DDs and kept them at 500 and lost pretty good until .. vacay! Seems like when I begin losing, some life thing comes up and stops it. Last time was surgery. But, as often as I get frustrated at not losing, like you I'm so burnt out on counting. My problem is not overeating on UDs, but typically undereating. I keep a stricter eye on the DDs and keep half an eye on the UDs just to make sure I'm eating enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yam-Yam View Post
I have not been weighing after UDs. But for some reason stepped on the scale this morning and it had bounced up 2 pounds from yesterday. I cannot believe how bummed and discouraged I was! Even though I know about bounces! I enjoyed myself. But I still let the voices of doubt have their way this morning. They were telling me "maybe this won't work. Maybe nothing will work anymore."

I want to keep it simple. I'm losing quite well overall by keeping my DDs as low as I can, not beating myself up if I have an occasional higher DD than I planned, and enjoying my UDs so I don't feel deprived. As long as I'm losing doing it the simple way, I'm going to keep doing it.

I don't even know if this post made sense! You all know me well enough to just skip through my ramblings if necessary!
I've opted to weigh only on Saturdays since it's after a set DD. But it does drive me nuts what's going on during the week. Just as nuts when I do weigh daily and see that bounce! I hear those voices, too. It's all I can do to keep from wandering over to the other weight loss boards to see what the newest thing is sometimes. Oh, and I quite enjoy most of your ramblings because I can relate to so many of them!

I don't post a lot in here and occasionally lurk since I've chosen not to share a lot of my personal life. I'd love to, but I freely admit to being paranoid about someone coming up to me and saying "you're vanilla latte, aren't you??!!". Because of some of the specifics in my life, it wouldn't be hard for a family member or friend to peg me in half a second! I'd love to share more and I might had I never ever posted a weight on LCF. Maybe if Dottie is reading, she can remove every weight I've ever posted here.

Anyway, when the posts are JUDDD related, so many of them hit home and these two sure did today.
__________________
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Yes, I'm going to track every loss when I get it!
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Old 01-09-2014, 01:14 PM   #298
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Thank you, Cindy. That is probably the same effect that I read about and remembered as a couple of months.
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Old 01-09-2014, 01:23 PM   #299
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Nilla, you made it clear a year or two back that you couldn't share more of you personal life with us, and we all respect that. But we love it when you come in and chat about our chatter. Our try to kill a thread...

i remember when you said something to the effect that 'no one takes any notice of my posts'... well you sure got that wrong lady, .
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Old 01-09-2014, 01:26 PM   #300
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I normally do full fast DDs but just got back from the Dr.s' office with an antibiotic prescription. It's only for five days and you don't have to eat with it but I am debating about having some Greek yogurt on my DD's just to help out the gut bacteria.
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