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Old 12-29-2013, 05:30 AM   #1
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Dr Barbara Berkley's Refuse to Regain

Like a number of JUDDD maintainers, I'm on the look-out for research-validated ways to support maintenance.

Leo41 mentioned Dr Barbara Berkeley's Refuse to Regain:12 Tough Rules to Maintain the Body You've Earned as something that she has found to be helpful. (I should mention upfront that Berkeley frequently writes something to the effect of, "Take what is useful to you and discard the rest".) (There is a Refuse to Regain website.)

Berkeley was/is a bariatric surgeon and has extensive experience of working with overweight/obese people.

The 12 Tough Rules

Be Tough, Not Moderate - don't opt for the method that works in the moment
Commit Yourself to a 3 Month Opt-out Period - you need to follow her recommend 'primalist' WOE with no off-list food choices/holidays from it for 12 weeks and permit yourself no opt-outs
Weigh Yourself Every Day - record, track and act upon the data (see below)
Reverse Small Regains Immediately - in some spots, she says act on a 1lb rise by mini-diets until it's corrected. In others, she says 5-10lbs but vigilance may vary depending on what's happening
Eat Primarian 90% of the Time - low carb with little dairy, watch the fat
Eat One Major Meal Per Day - everything else is a snack or 'tide-over'
Perform a Daily "Scan & Plan" - go through your commitments for the day and anticipate what might sabotage your food choices and have a back-up plan for avoidance or handling those saboteurs
Stop eating after 8 PM - reduces unwise choices
Eat from a limited menu - reduce sensory specific satiety (more below - not her phrase but it's basically that we crave variety and our appetite for familiar foodstuffs is less than for items that stimulate us with novelty)
Have one acceptable treat per day - we are human and need to recognise that we crave some sort of indulgence if we're not to feel resentful and deprived. Definitions of 'acceptable' may vary.
Have a love affair with exercise - she says that we need to become athletes not in the sense of being superbly competent at an activity but that exercise becomes part of how we, and others, might define ourselves. Eg, she does Tai Chi 3x a week or plays tennis x5 a week.
Maintain with support and support others - courtesy of LCF or your preferred IRL group.

What's particularly interesting is that she strongly argues for the existence of metabolic differences (and therefore, to some extent different strategies) for those whose weight loss is 20lbs or so and who hadn't been overweight/obese for long v. POW (previously overweight or obese people who have been so since childhood).

Based on her experience with her clinical practice (obesity+ people who've opted for WLS to support them) she asserts that in her experience, the frequently repeated mantra of 'moderation' does not work and can trap people in rebound cycles of weight loss and gain.

I don't know what to make of it although I accept the sense of several of those rules. I like her, 'Take what's useful, ignore the rest. And, if your WOE is working for you in maintaining your weight and your health and you have no other metabolic issues, stick with your WOE'.

ETA: Typo on her family name in title - sorry

Last edited by SlowSure; 12-29-2013 at 05:42 AM..
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Old 12-29-2013, 05:34 AM   #2
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Sensory Specific Satiety

I originally posted this in Yennie's Potato Hacking Journal but it seems relevant here.

Published 17 Dec 2013, Guardian.

Title: The science behind stuffing your face at Christmas
Feeling full, psychology and how festive food and drink make a monster of your appetite

Quote:
The thinking behind [sensory specific satiety] [SSS] is that because humans are omnivores, and we must eat a variety of foods to survive, we evolved this mechanism to keep us from sticking doggedly to our favourite food and consequently getting ill, and/or prematurely popping our clogs. Marion Hetheringon, professor of biospychology at the University of Leeds, describes the process nicely: "If I'm eating a food like pasta, it will taste good at the beginning. Then when I'm halfway through it doesn't taste quite as good – I might add some more sauce to make it taste better, or I might say I'm going to switch to salad now – I've had enough of the pasta." This happens subconsciously. In fact even people with amnesia who not only forget what they've just eaten, but have no idea whether they've eaten at all, still express SSS. Served repeated, identical meals, they will continue to eat them, but they find them increasingly unpleasant.
I can't post the link but the original article has some decent references to research studies to support this idea. It made me think of the correspondences of choosing a foodstuff (like potato) and serving it plainly and eating it to satiety but not beyond.

As per Berkeley's suggestion for having a limited menu - I can also see how well Dawn and Adi's relatively fixed menus work for them.

Last edited by SlowSure; 12-29-2013 at 05:42 AM..
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Old 12-29-2013, 06:41 AM   #3
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How wonderful of you to post this!

I will make notes and keep what I can to help me!

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Old 12-29-2013, 08:27 AM   #4
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To clarify, I read the Refuse to Regain blog, but I've never read her book. However. the 'rules' that you helpfully posted that are in her book are also on the website (and one reason I didn't bother with the book itself.)

I was interested in how many of her items are things that I already do, but others I would never do. For example, daily weighing would drive me nuts, and I continue to weigh mainly weekly. But her idea of 'scan and plan' is something I did throughout weight loss--and especially with JUDDD. I am never 'surprised' by events or occasions involving food.

I've also always followed a somewhat limited menu just by temperament, and I've seen that recommended elsewhere as well. I continue to eat very low carb, simply because I'm very carb sensitive, and this WOE seems to agree with me. I also totally agree with her advice to 'take action' after any small gain. Even if I know that my gain is from some carby indulgences (as on a holiday), I immediately return to weight-loss mode. Vigilance, to me, is essential.

But I think one of her blogs that resonated with me most is her idea that those of us who will struggle with weight management throughout our lifetime should realize that we're on an 'island,' and those on the mainland (the majority) accept higher weights and are more food indulgent than we can afford to be. We should not envy that culture but embrace our own 'tough' decisions as our own culture, one that promotes our well being.

Interestingly, by being 'tough,' I've found some appreciation for my "island culture." I spent Christmas at my sister's house, and she had found a recipe for a flatbread made from cauliflower, cheese, and eggs and made it for me "because you don't eat bread." I was very touched by that, considering all the baking and cooking she'd done for the holiday.
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Old 12-29-2013, 08:45 AM   #5
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Interesting, thanks for breaking it down for us.

I'm far from maintenance, but, like Leo41, I use some of these strategies already, and some hold zero appeal (at least for now). I definitely "scan and plan," for instance, and weigh daily, as I find both to be helpful in keeping me on track daily. My menu is varied overall, but I often go days or weeks eating the same thing, even the exact same food for every meal several days in a row. I've always done it, though. I don't get bored with repetitive food.

The ideas that don't speak to me are daily treats and not eating after a certain time. If I'm hungry, I eat. And I eat food I enjoy, but I don't really consider much (or most) of what I eat to be treat-like.

As someone who has been overweight or obese since I was about ten, I do have a vested interest in her (and others') assertion that maintenance needs to be different for us. I'm very interested in reading the experiences of others with a similar background and several years of maintenance under their belts.
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Old 12-29-2013, 08:56 AM   #6
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This is interesting. The main thing I do is to eat the same menu for DDs repeatedly. I've probably eaten the same menu, with very, very little variation, for the last year. It helps me enormously to not try to figure out how much of something I can have, or to even have to plan or think about it. I just do it. I enjoy it. I don't suffer even a tiny bit. Up days are free-for-alls a lot of the time, but my weight has been very steady for two years. I have no complaints.
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Old 12-29-2013, 09:31 AM   #7
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Thanks for posting this. I have never heard of this Dr. before and I find this information interesting.

I have tested out the theory about boring menus and it works for me. Plus I am going to have to face the fact that I need to limit dairy. For some reason yogurt makes me just want more yogurt especially with walnuts in it. LOL No yogurt no walnuts no weight gain.

I have five more pounds to lose that I gained this holiday. Must get it under control NOW or I could easily keep on the upward spiral. I do not do LC per se but for now I am upping the fat tremendously to keep my UD's under control. I also buy into the not eating after 8 but my time is after 7pm. Makes a big difference for me. If I "think" I am hungry I drink something at night. Even a glass of water will do for me.

I am also a daily weigher. It is so easy to pretend when that number isn't written down on my calendar daily.

And I go in phases. Now I am on a sweet potato phase with lots of butter for lunch. That is all as I am full due to the butter. Next week it might be something else on UD's. I have been through the baked potato, cottage cheese and salsa for lunch every UD and will return to that eventually. Boring is best for me personally.

Now all I have to do is start a love affair with exercise. Currently I hate exercise so that will be a hard one for me.
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Old 12-29-2013, 11:31 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowSure View Post
Be Tough, Not Moderate - Life and time have proven I don't "do" moderation
Weigh Yourself Every Day - weigh, measure, try on pants...watch for change
Reverse Small Regains Immediately - know thy bounce range
Perform a Daily "Scan & Plan" - go through your commitments for the day and anticipate what might sabotage your food choices and have a back-up plan for avoidance or handling those saboteurs YES
Maintain with support and support others - I am so glad life finally gave me time to return to this wonderful forum!!!
Works for me

Good rules
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Old 12-29-2013, 12:36 PM   #9
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Thoughtful, helpful responses and very useful reflections.

I'm particularly intrigued that there are times when Dr Berkeley announces that while not ignoring science for a particular aspect, she deliberately chooses to address some issues from a behavioural rather than scientific/research evidence perspective. She explains this by stating that sometimes the science is still emerging, or it's contentious, or feels that it conflicts with common sense. Or, it's just not possible to derive helpful guidance from it as yet.

Her grounding principles for Previously Overweight/Obese people (POWs):
1. POWs have an "obesogenic" body type when exposed to the SAD: in some this is genetic, in others, they became this way through microbiome/metabolic/endocrine changes induced by exposure to SAD. (She says that there may be many other contributory factors.*)
2. Eliminate the SAD and its accompanying culture (sedentary lifestyles for which our abundance of food intake is superfluous or the practice of soothing ourselves with food) and obesity can be mitigated.
3. Eliminating the SAD is implausible for many people in North America because of the ubiquity of food, the marketing of food and its cultural significance.
4. Exercise can reduce the health problems associated with the obeseogenic state: although it can do little to assist weight loss (except for some men) it is key to weight loss maintenance and metabolic well-being.
5. Currently, although it's a leading public health issue, there is little support from culture or medicine to help POWs restrict their exposure to the SAD, or to facilitate appropriate exercise. Despite this, POWs who regain their weight are encouraged to blame themselves.

*I like a comment that she has on her site.
Quote:
Sometimes we don't need to know all the details to know how to respond. For example, when a ball is thrown at us, we don't need to know the physics of its exact rotation and acceleration, or the protein composition of [its] rawhide, or the fact that it is really made up of billions of atoms, in order to avoid being hit in the head with it.
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Old 12-29-2013, 01:09 PM   #10
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I really like that quote, too, SS.
Sometimes we can all get caught up in overthinking things when all we really need to do is duck or step to the right.
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Old 12-29-2013, 01:12 PM   #11
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I LOVE that thrown ball example! My weight loss and maintenance has been an individual 'experiment' to determine what works best for me. Sometimes I get taken in by some enthusiastic ideas on this board (or others), and I need to keep reminding myself why I do what I do. Over time, I've learned how I catch the ball best, and I have to ignore other 'methods.'

Ntombi- Although I'm maintaining, I don't agree with her notion of a 'daily treat.' I agree that it's important to avoid a sense of excessive restriction, but giving myself a weekly 'treat' (at most) is sufficient. For me, a daily treat would too easily become the norm rather than a treat.
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Old 12-29-2013, 04:01 PM   #12
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Thank you very much for posting this and I do love the island/mainland analogy. I have never felt more like an islander as I did this Christmas. Surrounded by unhealthy looking and overweight people boasting about their fantastic eating habits, porridge/cereal for breakfast, fruit for snacks, wholegrain bread for lunch, pasta for dinner, cutting all visible fat from meat, margarine instead of butter, skim milk, cholesterol, low fat etc. As a LC'er it was difficult to sit there and listen. I was a lone voice in the wilderness and I just don't bother anymore. They ask me how I lost my weight but their eyes glaze over; it's just too radical and different for them. Yes I'm an islander and proud of it.
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Old 12-29-2013, 07:19 PM   #13
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Great thread. Thanks.
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Old 12-29-2013, 09:34 PM   #14
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I just read a couple of pages worth of Dr Berkeley's blog. Very interesting. I especially liked the analogy of cleaning and decluttering your house. The period of cleaning is like losing weight. Once you are done cleaning you have to stay focused on NOT bringing in new stuff and staying on top of any messes that get started. Very much like weight loss.
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Old 12-30-2013, 03:59 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adillenal View Post
Now all I have to do is start a love affair with exercise. Currently I hate exercise so that will be a hard one for me.
I suppose that a lot depends on your background level of activity. Looking after livestock strikes me as quite strenuous but it's hard to judge (knowing as little about it as I do).

I mostly enjoy activities that involve beautiful scenery (some forms of cycling as well as paddling/kayaking). I couldn't bear attending an exercise class in an enclosed space but I know a lot of people thoroughly enjoy the companionship, the music and the rhythmic movements.

Martial arts tend to be enjoyable, both for the level of physical workout and mental discipline but I can't wrap my head around identifying a suitable form for my current level of fitness/stamina.
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Old 12-30-2013, 04:01 AM   #16
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Maintenance & why I'm interested

I posted this in the daily weigh-in thread but it's relevant here.

Reflecting on 4 Christmases.

Christmas 2010 168lbs (approx)
Christmas 2011 140lbs (approx)
Christmas 2012 157lbs (approx)
Christmas 2013 124lbs (approx)

So, the lightest I've been since my last significant accident (2009) altho' heavier than I was before. Maintenance is very important to me and I really couldn't have got here without the support of this board (as Berkeley says, with reference to support).
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Old 12-30-2013, 08:04 AM   #17
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Years ago when I lost down to 144 I walked daily as my maintenance. Worked beautifully. When my foot got so bad I could not even wear a shoe and I could not do my daily walking my weight started inching up. Then when I had surgery and was on crutches for 4 months I gained up to 180 which is where I was when I started JUDDD. So I need to force myself to go for an evening walk if nothing else as I have proof that it helps with maintenance.
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Old 01-06-2014, 09:03 AM   #18
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Nancy wrote this in CaliChris' Alternate Day Diet Revised thread but I thought I'd respond here so that I didn't threadjack the discussion of Varady's book. (However, the Masters are from Anne M Fletcher's book Thin for Life rather than Barbara Berkeley's so my logic is somewhat baffling me here.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gotsomeold View Post
SlowSure, I have one I feel strongly about that I bet the Masters mention...

I never, ever, ever cheated on my calories.

I do encounter eating opportunities not in keeping with the calories I planned to eat. I think about it - how it would taste, how I would feel physically after eating it, how eating it would impact the rest of my day. Then I make an adult decision to eat or not to eat, to taste or gobble it all. But I do not 'cheat'.

I suspect the psychology of 'cheating' is very dangerous and can lead to weight loss slowdown or failure.

Where my weight and health are concerned, the only person I can cheat is myself. I chose to be honest with myself...and occasionally chocolate-covered.
This is absolutely correct.

I think the use of the word 'cheat' is wrong in so many ways. If someone is eating within the parameters of a given plan, how is it a 'cheat'? It sets up all sorts of expectations that people can opt for unplanned cheats - and then be baffled when the results aren't as they wish. The nuance of a 'planned/authorised cheat' versus an 'unplanned/unauthorised cheat' is a nonsense, and the sooner diet promoters stop using the term, the better.

In Thin for Life, key #4 is Accept the Food Facts. The Masters;
Quote:
peacefully accept their new way of eating: they know that they can’t eat whatever they want, and know that they can’t go back to their old food habits.
Myth #3 is If you do succeed at weight loss and keeping it off, you'll have to eat like a bird for the rest of your life.
Quote:
[Masters] feel like they eat what they want, but in moderation. In the words of Irene S..."If I want pie or cake, or whatever, I have a controlled amount, and that's it!"
It's very much in line with Nancy's notion that we're autonomous adults who can make conscious choices that we accept. I could quote all of them but some of the Food Facts are particularly relevant.

Food Fact #6: The masters keep track of what they eat. Although it gets easier over time, people report using a food diary to remain aware of their eating trends and avoid portion creep because Master Maintainers continue to exercise portion control and to specifically plan for particular indulgences (see below). Obesity researcher Dr. Kirschenbaum is quoted in this chapter:
Quote:
Self-monitoring is the single most important aspect of effective weight control.
Food Fact #7: The masters indulge themselves but spend their calories wisely. Masters are human, they know that they will occasionally indulge in their favorite foods or seasonal specialities but decide to manage their access to tempting/trigger foods and make conscious budgeting decisions about how to spend their calories and how to remain within their planned WOE.

Food Fact #8: The masters pay attention to their bodies. In a fine balancing act, Master Maintainers establish their 'equipoise'. They aim to eat only when they are hungry but are mindful that, for some people, being too hungry can be a trigger to a lapse. (This is a variation of Food Fact #2 which covers how Masters manage the transition from weight loss to maintenance.) As for Nancy's, 'You're only cheating yourself' point, the chapter refers to the Galloping Gourmet's weight loss journey after a bad scare and health epiphany:
Quote:
Today, as he chooses his daily foods and designs his recipes, Kerr’s guiding question is, “what can I put in my body that will give me the most vitality and P.S. can it taste good, too?”

Last edited by SlowSure; 01-06-2014 at 09:14 AM..
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Old 01-06-2014, 10:50 AM   #19
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Old 01-17-2014, 03:46 AM   #20
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The following is from LG's Tired and Discouraged thread as I wanted to comment on it at some point without thread jacking. (I may have to quote this and comment later as my posts keep disappearing with server glitches.)

I'm quoting a number of people below, all of who are reporting variations on a theme of: "The sequence of holidays and their associated sweet celebrations or traditional foods has triggered a desire for carbs and sugar. Altho' this was manageable at the outset, my increased (?) and more regular intake of processed carbs and sugar is making me feel out of sorts or out of control to such a point that I have to curb my cravings for them if I'm to feel better and to be able to use JUDDD appropriately".

I think it's notable that this has happened after Thanksgiving through to New Year (I don't think it's me forgetting, but I don't recall so many people having this degree of a difficulty this time last year). I haven't tracked back to check, but I wonder if people reporting this are the ones for whom circumstances interfered with keeping regular DDs during that 4-6 week holiday period.

I also think is is precisely why Nancy's tagline is correct and will ultimately stand in stark contrast to the claims that you can 'eat what you want' on your UD:
Quote:
JUDDD cares about calories. JUDDD does not care what you eat. Your body probably does.
This may relate to particular demographics (e.g. age groups) or it may be something that happens to more people as they get nearer to their goals or have been maintaining for some time. (The obvious confounder here is that we are all at least sympathetic to the idea of low carb or we wouldn't be here.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeirasMom View Post
I'm in the "cutting the white stuff" camp right now too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by adillenal View Post
:I am going through this right now as I am back in WLM to take care of the Christmas gain but not making any progress due to my eat anything I want UD's. I would probably do best if I tried Atkins 72 on UD's
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eieio View Post
As our Dawn is in the give up white foods. I'll do that with you!! Im in for two weeks with you both! Where do I sign
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirtain View Post
I know it is not the easiest thing to address when you are feeling in a bad mental place, but I was amazed when I first went low-carb at how my mental situation changed...
Have you thought about doing a meat only, or meat and eggs plan for a short time to jump start you? Or a fat-fast? Those seem like the quickest way to get rid of sugar cravings/stabilize blood sugar/get into ketosis....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flutter View Post
At the risk of you shooting me, I am in that place as well. It's not the same, I know, but at the same time, the MENTAL part completely is...
ANYHOO, I know with my history that cutting white stuff out of my diet works immediately at getting rid of my cravings & crappy eating habits.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joyjoy View Post
Well said, Sirtain. The white junk messes with your head.
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Originally Posted by ouizoid View Post
I really truly had to change my way of eating in order to do this effectively. I certainly cut out white flour and sugar, but also for me, lc foods high in fat and protein. When I switched to a plant based diet without a lot of added fat (except for a few nuts and avocado and flax/hemp/chia), I stopped feeling crazy. ...-I feel SO much saner and better and the weight is slowly but surely coming off. I loosely JUDDD, because I believe the alternating calories increase my metabolism, but I needed to eat in a different way to stop feeling like a failure.
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Originally Posted by Librarygirl View Post
I know I've got to do something differently with my choice of foods...So it's a deal, Ei, Dawn, and whomever else wants to eat more healthy, with less sugar and processed foods.
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I ate rubbish yesterday and I feel rubbish today. Not rocket science is it?
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No flour or added sugar for me
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Originally Posted by LoCarbGal View Post
Oh Cindy! I'm in with you guys on the avoiding the white stuff. I'm at the end of my 2 week Atkins routine, and I'm not going to restrict myself as strictly going forward, but I definitely want to keep those white foods at a minimum. That always helps me to keep things in control.
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Originally Posted by Locarbarella View Post
I just wanted to give this a thumbs up. I know it's unpleasant to think about giving up the sugar and starchy carbs, but for some of us it's the key to keeping the appetite in check. Which means keeping the rotations in check.
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Originally Posted by Jbinme View Post
The first time I started JUDDD I came right from lc and kept it that way pretty much until I reached my goal. Then I let loose. And I struggled from then on ...I'm now ready to accept what sugar really does to me. My mind gets foggy and I feel helpless and our of control...
So count me in for no white stuff.
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My boot camp is doing a cleanse--- might do that to kick start and stop eating those damn sweets, since its so strict and then come back to JUDDD.
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Originally Posted by Librarygirl View Post
I crave sweets mostly...I end up 500-1000 over my calories most UDs because I have indulged in sweets, or extra carby food.

...Also, I was able to eat that junk food and lose at first, and I thought I'd found a gold mine of possibility. Turns out it was Fool's Gold. I can maintain (175-177) lbs eating like that, but I cannot lose anymore.
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Originally Posted by Librarygirl View Post
MSN08, it's strange but I see others saying it too--I can control my appetite on a DD, and I just do...I think it's getting started on junk food or sweets that sends my calories over the edge, because not only do I want that stuff I also want a real meal.
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I need to cut the white stuff also. I think I'm addicted
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Originally Posted by Flutter View Post
I can purge the sugar pronto
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Originally Posted by mafiamom View Post
am really seriously thinking about doing the LC thing for awhile myself. i am binging way too much on the crap food. it's making me feel...crappy - go figure. having a really hard time getting into the swing of everything again after the holiday free for all.
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Originally Posted by calichris View Post
I think more protein and less white stuff is a fantastic plan for helping with UD cravings. Not forever, but just to get the cravings out of the system. I think I triggered some cravings over the holidays with all those cookies and things everywhere
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Originally Posted by Luv2Eat View Post
I think many of us can relate from all the holiday cheer :-)

Last edited by SlowSure; 01-17-2014 at 03:48 AM..
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Old 01-17-2014, 05:26 AM   #21
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Thanks, Slow. I've been wondering how much of the collective discomfort is related to holiday sugar/junk. I have no doubt that it affects my mood as well as my body's performance - my tendency to gain or not, my ability to eat reasonably on UDs, my experience of hunger, my hot flashes, fluid retention, inflammatory events here and there, sleep, general energy.
It's terrific to see these clips together.

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Old 01-17-2014, 06:43 AM   #22
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slow, you are my hero. thanks for taking the time to post this.
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Old 01-17-2014, 08:40 AM   #23
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Slow, I'm 99% certain mine is directly related to all the holiday treats, AND to the fact that I'm in maintenance now and have been for some time. I've never been a sweets eater, but this year I was DRAWN to all the fudge and various goodies in the office, like a siren song. This is TOTALLY new for me, and, being in maintenance, I allowed myself to sample this and that. Well this and that, became this and that and this here and that over there, and it was nearly compulsive. I'm about a year into maintaining my largest losses (with little losses thrown in over the last year), so I think that has something to do with it--the old body trying to convince itself to return to its heavier weight. I just find it interesting that the foods I'm "craving" are things I've never craved before, except during pregnancy.
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JUDDD got me where I want to be!
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Old 01-17-2014, 09:09 AM   #24
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Old 01-19-2014, 04:50 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by KeirasMom View Post
Slow, I'm 99% certain mine is directly related to all the holiday treats, AND to the fact that I'm in maintenance now and have been for some time....This is TOTALLY new for me, and, being in maintenance, I allowed myself to sample this and that....--the old body trying to convince itself to return to its heavier weight. I just find it interesting that the foods I'm "craving" are things I've never craved before...
I find set-point an interesting theory. Whether or not it eventually is validated as a genuine phenomenon for people, it's what a tutor of mine always referred to as a 'narrative truth' or basically a good way of explaining something and acting upon it, even if not all of the details are wholly accurate. (A lot of science education depends on narrative truths as you can't always teach science in all its complexity from the outset - but people are taught one thing, and then, at more advanced levels, discover that that wasn't necessarily so, nor was it the whole story. As ever, I digress.)

Anyhow if set-point is a reasonable way of thinking about this - then it makes a lot of sense for bodies to latch on to culturally-acceptable items (sweet stuff) as a gateway to inducing us to be less vigilant and, paradoxically, feeling worse in such a way that sometimes the only way to feel better, in the moment, is to have more of the sweet stuff. (Our bodies think we're absurd for getting rid of the fat stores they so carefully built up and conserved for us and they want to sneak them back.)
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Old 01-19-2014, 09:00 AM   #26
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SlowSure-
those of us who will struggle with weight management throughout our lifetime should realize that we're on an 'island,' and those on the mainland (the majority) accept higher weights and are more food indulgent than we can afford to be. We should not envy that culture but embrace our own 'tough' decisions as our own culture, one that promotes our well being.
I connect with this. LOVE IT! makes sense now when I say 'why can't I eat like a normal person' when in reality I never will. and what is normal eating? it isn't. the processed junk out there is not normal yet I kinda think it is. huh
good things for me to think about. COOL!

Leo I have seen some great posts from you! keep them coming
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Old 01-19-2014, 12:16 PM   #27
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I connect with this. LOVE IT! makes sense now when I say 'why can't I eat like a normal person' when in reality I never will. and what is normal eating? it isn't. the processed junk out there is not normal yet I kinda think it is. huh
good things for me to think about. COOL!

Leo I have seen some great posts from you! keep them coming
AGREED! ! !
THANK YOU ! ! !
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Old 01-19-2014, 01:12 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by KeirasMom View Post
Slow, I'm 99% certain mine is directly related to all the holiday treats, AND to the fact that I'm in maintenance now and have been for some time. I've never been a sweets eater, but this year I was DRAWN to all the fudge and various goodies in the office, like a siren song. This is TOTALLY new for me, and, being in maintenance, I allowed myself to sample this and that. Well this and that, became this and that and this here and that over there, and it was nearly compulsive. I'm about a year into maintaining my largest losses (with little losses thrown in over the last year), so I think that has something to do with it--the old body trying to convince itself to return to its heavier weight. I just find it interesting that the foods I'm "craving" are things I've never craved before, except during pregnancy.
Well? Is it possible? (Just asking )
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Old 01-19-2014, 05:35 PM   #29
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Well? Is it possible? (Just asking )
Always possible, but not likely. We're careful. Plus, TOM has visited since the worst of the cravings.
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Old 01-19-2014, 08:42 PM   #30
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(Our bodies think we're absurd for getting rid of the fat stores they so carefully built up and conserved for us and they want to sneak them back.)
Wonderful thread, SS, thank you for posting it. I love your observation about the fat stores
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