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Old 01-10-2014, 07:36 AM   #61
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I just have the feeling that her "research" is taken from other's research, and that she is also implying things that "sound" good in order to sell the book. I think the slight deviations that she's made from Johnson, are not really any more scientific or helpful to the dieters, but just a deviation that keeps it from being plagurism. I could be wrong.
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Old 01-10-2014, 07:37 AM   #62
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gotta love capitalism. too bad they can't band together somehow. it would sure be less confusing for us normal folk.
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Old 01-10-2014, 07:44 AM   #63
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too bad they can't band together somehow. it would sure be less confusing for us normal folk.
You mean us Guinea Pigs!

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Old 01-10-2014, 07:54 AM   #64
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Well, maybe her book will be more appealing to younger people, or to more people in general. I don't need to read it or to be persuaded to try it. I am already doing it lol. The bottom line, I guess, is that ADF is staying in the forefront in the media.
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Old 01-10-2014, 08:24 AM   #65
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I have to agree with Christina. We're being a tad bit rough on her. I know I would come off as a complete idiot if I had to be interviewed like that. I do wish she was better prepared with some hard science though. But maybe that's because we've been living it and want more detailed info. Probably the masses who are encountering this idea for the first time would glaze over if they went into all that. I don't know. I still want to read the book and still have it on hold at my library, along with Dr. Johnson's.
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Old 01-10-2014, 11:31 AM   #66
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I have to agree with Christina. We're being a tad bit rough on her. I know I would come off as a complete idiot if I had to be interviewed like that. I do wish she was better prepared with some hard science though. But maybe that's because we've been living it and want more detailed info. Probably the masses who are encountering this idea for the first time would glaze over if they went into all that. I don't know. I still want to read the book and still have it on hold at my library, along with Dr. Johnson's.
Probably true - in spite of what I've said here.
I'd be a terrible interviewee. I'd probably say something like "eat a little cookie and maybe some fruit" and then kick myself later - wondering where the heck that came from???
(Unless that's how she really eats - which is fine if it works for her.)
Because I tend to say dumb things under pressure.

And about the SIRT1 - isn't it true that the research isn't solid on that? Is there actual research to backup the claims made, or is it in the hypothetical stage still?
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Old 01-10-2014, 12:22 PM   #67
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I guess I was just hoping that the leading researchers on EOD would be more involved in conducting human studies on SIRT1, rather than such variables as meal frequency - like in whether one meal of 500 daily is better than spreading them out over the day for compliance.

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Old 01-10-2014, 01:38 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Slimming-up View Post
Probably true - in spite of what I've said here.
I'd be a terrible interviewee. I'd probably say something like "eat a little cookie and maybe some fruit" and then kick myself later - wondering where the heck that came from???
(Unless that's how she really eats - which is fine if it works for her.)
Because I tend to say dumb things under pressure.

And about the SIRT1 - isn't it true that the research isn't solid on that? Is there actual research to backup the claims made, or is it in the hypothetical stage still?
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Old 01-10-2014, 02:15 PM   #69
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I watched it and all I could keep thinking is that the first I'd ever heard of this WOE was from Dr. J. back several years ago in Woman's Weekly or something like that. I dunno, for me it's like watching a rip off of a blockbuster movie or book. But, like Librarygirl said, maybe young people who've never heard of Dr. J. or JUDDD will take note of it.

I sure wish Dr. J. would have had someone keep up with his website. It's a little sad to go over there and see it's stuck in time. But, at least it's become a more acceptable way to eat. Although, on some of the other sites where people do JUDDD, you still have someone sternly admonishing them from destroying their metabolism, they're going to go into starvation mode, I could never exist on 500 calories, etc."
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Old 01-10-2014, 02:59 PM   #70
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the comments on IF infuriate me. it's so ridiculous to think our bodies are unable to handle a day without food.
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Old 01-10-2014, 06:51 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by mafiamom View Post
the comments on IF infuriate me. it's so ridiculous to think our bodies are unable to handle a day without food.
The eat every day, especially at breakfast thing is pretty ingrained in society. My grandpa gives me crap when we visit and I don't eat breakfast. I always tell him "Grandpa, you worked in the woods six days a week all of your life. I work at a computer. I don't need to eat if I'm not hungry."
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Old 01-10-2014, 07:34 PM   #72
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sorry didn't read the whole thread but does she give menu ideas fr DD
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Old 01-11-2014, 07:27 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by SlimNana View Post
Nothing personal against the woman, just the lack of research from the leading researcher on EOD concerning SIRT1.

For example: From Krista Varady's Facebook page.

"The Every Other Day Diet · 1,482 like this
December 2, 2013 at 1:34pm ·
Lisa asks: “How does fasting turn on your skinny gene?”

Your "skinny gene" is scientifically known as SIRT1. SIRT1 is thought to be turned on during periods of fasting, and acts to repair cells that have been damaged by free radicals. In this way, it helps to prevent cells from dying prematurely, and as such, may regulate lifespan and aging.

I know that Johnson's book focuses on "turning on the skinny gene" by alternate day fasting. Although this may be the case, I just want to point out that no human study has ever been done to show this. In fact, this has only been shown in yeast, worms and rodents so far. Saying that fasting turns on the skinny gene, at this point, just seems like a ploy to sell products such as Resveratrol (which have never been proven scientifically to work in humans).

This is not to say that fasting and calorie restriction aren't good for you…they definitely are! I'm just trying to point out that we really don't know what the underlying mechanisms are just yet. If any human research comes out, I'll be sure to share it. Thanks for the great question!"

I really appreciate her distinction between proven fact and theory. She doesn't interview well (so badly in fact that she hurts her own cause) but she's a precise scientist and that matters more to me.

Quote:
I guess I was just hoping that the leading researchers on EOD would be more involved in conducting human studies on SIRT1, rather than such variables as meal frequency - like in whether one meal of 500 daily is better than spreading them out over the day for compliance.
Finding an underlying mechanism matters more to them because that's the sort of thing that wins a Nobel prize.
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Old 01-11-2014, 08:40 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by FrostyBeav View Post
The eat every day, especially at breakfast thing is pretty ingrained in society. My grandpa gives me crap when we visit and I don't eat breakfast. I always tell him "Grandpa, you worked in the woods six days a week all of your life. I work at a computer. I don't need to eat if I'm not hungry."
Good point!
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Old 01-11-2014, 08:44 AM   #75
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I was more then surprise by the following:

SIRT1 is thought to be turned on during periods of fasting
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Old 01-11-2014, 08:58 AM   #76
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Leonak, she has said that there have never been human studies to prove that SIRT1 is turned on during fasting, and that mice (and worm) trials don't unequivocally prove that the same happens for humans. Dr. Johnson took that leap, but she doesn't.
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Old 01-11-2014, 09:58 AM   #77
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I really appreciate her distinction between proven fact and theory. She doesn't interview well (so badly in fact that she hurts her own cause) but she's a precise scientist and that matters more to me.
That's how I see it, too. I admire and appreciate Dr. Johnson, but I also really appreciate research-based conclusions, and when I compared the sources for both books, I thought that Varady's were more recent and more relevant. There were studies Johnson really should have included that he did not.

In Dr. Johnson's book:
-The most recent study cited was 2007
-Dr. J. has two published studies, one on ADF and effect on health (Med. Hypotheses 2006) and one on ADF and asthma (Free Rad. Biol. Med 2007)
-All of the SIRT studies were on animals, except in one it is not clear (I didn't look it up): Sirt 1 promotes fat mobilization (Nature, 2004)
-Human ADF studies were older and had a specific focus not necessarily weight loss related; for example one on c-reactive protein and intermittent fasting (2007)

Both books cited a 2005 study by Heilbronn (et al) in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition called "Alternate-Day Fasting in Nonobese subjects: Effects on Body Weight, Body Metabolism, and Energy Metabolism."

In Varady's book:
- All studies were recent and several in 2013
- Varady had one study on which she was the first listed researcher (American Journal of Clinical Nutrition "Short-Term Modified Alternate-Day Fasting: A Novel Dietary Strategy for Weight Loss and Cardio Protection in Obese Adults." 2009). Based on her book chapters I assume she was part of the "et al" on other studies where the primary researcher is listed as someone else. I looked it up and she has co-authored 6 studies and two scientific reviews, all on ADF in humans.

I know SlowSure has concerns about some of the studies and some of the journals in which they are published, and I don't have the scientific background to evaluate that. As a non-scientist, it appears to me that her sources are superior to Dr. Johnson's, but I admire both of them and hope that more research will continue to be done now that people are paying attention to the benefits of ADF.
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Old 01-11-2014, 10:13 AM   #78
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Isn't the most important thing is that "we" now know this way of eating works?

That is it works for most of us!

It does indeed work for me, makes really no difference to me who wrote what or who did what - it is a woe I like and I appreciate each and everyone who has helped me be on my way to this woe.

Thank You One and All.
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Old 01-11-2014, 01:21 PM   #79
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Isn't the most important thing is that "we" now know this way of eating works?
In the short run, yes. If it turns out that IF makes your metabolism worse in the long run (as it is reported to do in women) then, no.
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Old 01-11-2014, 01:59 PM   #80
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Well, now that I've been as heavy as I have, I know that I'll never be able to eat "normally" without watching calories/carbs or something, so if I have to do IF the rest of my life, I still see it as a win-win!
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Old 01-11-2014, 02:01 PM   #81
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^^^^ this.
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Old 01-11-2014, 02:50 PM   #82
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Well, now that I've been as heavy as I have, I know that I'll never be able to eat "normally" without watching calories/carbs or something, so if I have to do IF the rest of my life, I still see it as a win-win!
Yes, you've got the ticket!!!
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Old 01-13-2014, 01:52 PM   #83
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I suspect the publisher had a huge say in this book; it's seems to be an easy read to target the new year weight loss resolutions. Who knows how much has been taken out of original manuscript it to appeal as a quick read for the masses who just want to lose weight quickly and easily, before the next book.

There is an excellent book out with the unfortunate title of OMG How to Lose weight and be skinnier than your friends or something dreadful like that. This book has been vilified by the press, nutritionists etc as in promoting ED's. I know the title is awful and the author has hinted that there was some publishing influence to aim the title and the whole writing style for the younger crowd. I personally think he has some really sound ideas, basically IF until noon, black coffee, exercise in morning fasted state, cold showers/baths (aka Dr Kruse and a lot of research about CT), lower carb and not overeating. Unfortunately it suffers from silly title and the resultant backlash.
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Old 01-13-2014, 03:07 PM   #84
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ED is "erectile dysfunction"
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Old 01-13-2014, 03:08 PM   #85
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In the short run, yes. If it turns out that IF makes your metabolism worse in the long run (as it is reported to do in women) then, no.
I haven't looked at the literature for a few months. Do you have a specific review/trial/study in mind, please?
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Old 01-13-2014, 04:12 PM   #86
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Dr. Varady's responded to a FB post where someone brought up a study on Pubmed Titled "Glucose tolerance and skeletal muscle gene expression in response to alternate day fasting") that showed glucose tolerance was adversely affected in non-obese women compared to men, and also an article from the Paleo For Women site where the concern for women and IE was raised.

This was her response:
Thanks so much for sharing this! This is the article I thought you were talking about. A couple of things to point out: 1) This study used true alternate day fasting, i.e. fasting completely on diet day, and 2) had a very small sample size. Although this is a very good study, the results don't really apply to EOD since the intervention is different (with EOD, people consume 500 calories on diet day). Please also note that all of our studies of EOD show decreased insulin resistance in both men and women, and consistent decreases in insulin. So at this stage, I don't think there's any cause for alarm. Thanks again for your post!
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Old 01-13-2014, 04:28 PM   #87
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I haven't looked at the literature for a few months. Do you have a specific review/trial/study in mind, please?
Nothing new, it's just this old blog post that concerns me a bit:

Paleo for Women | Shattering the Myth of Fasting for Women: A Review of Female-Specific Responses to Fasting in the Literature

I've also seen women on the other low carb board claim that IF slowed their metabolism and after a long stint of IF they were not able to eat as much food without large gains.

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Old 01-13-2014, 06:05 PM   #88
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Whatever we do, someone will come along and decide it's bad for us. They are saying now that low carb for too long can affect women's thyroids. YMWV - if one struggles with IF they shouldn't do it, if it makes you feel great keep going. For years I was told to eat breakfast by the "experts" and from all "the studies"; what a load of crock that was for me.
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Old 01-13-2014, 06:19 PM   #89
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Old 01-13-2014, 06:22 PM   #90
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The link says that fasting induces anxiety and wakefulness, but I usually feel a calm and increased feelings of well-being on fasting days. I did lie awake in the beginning of starting this diet with hunger, but that passed after a week or so. Now I am more energetic and may stay up later, just because I feel more energetic. I usually don't have sleepless nights on fasting days (or others), but do experience it occasionally as do people who eat 3+ meals a day. As for women in their child-bearing years, that has been discussed and may possibly be a problem...for me, it isn't as I am almost 50.
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