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Old 12-12-2013, 12:10 AM   #1
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Eating UD calories between 18-20 hours?

If you fast for, let's say, 30 hours, from 17:00 to 23:00 the next day and then eat at 23:00 and then again at 17:00, will you still reap the benefits of fasting? And will this harm metabolism?

I got SUPER hungry at 23:00 and decided to break a 0 calorie fast. But I won't get the chance to eat again until 17:00.
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Old 12-12-2013, 04:43 AM   #2
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When you ate at 23:00, did you stick close to your DD calories? Or did you empty the fridge?

If you ate close to your DD calories, then I think the net result is you had a very long DD. If you ate around your UD calories, then you ate more like the CAD/CALP pattern.

One of the great things about JUDDD is it has a lot of flex, and it gives us great opportunities to learn what is best for each of our personal, wonderful bodies.

During weight loss, I fell into exceptionally looooong fasts without noticing. I did stall my weight loss and lost most of my NSVs because my body could not handle the stress. It took about six weeks of stall and gradual loss of NSVs for me to realize what I was doing wrong.

Once in awhile a completely weird eating pattern is totally NBD. Most of our bodies are designed to handle unusual patterns. Extended patterns - you watch yourself and figure out it is good or bad for you.
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- Nancy
GOAL 10/3/12
Still at goal 2/6/13
STILL below goal 2/15/14

I did not "lose" weight. I evicted it. It is gone and it ain't coming back!

JUDDD cares about calories. JUDDD does not care what you eat. Your body probably does.
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Old 12-12-2013, 03:24 PM   #3
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What do you call extremely long fasts, Nancy? I sometimes eat breakfast on UDs and sometimes don't eat until 1:00, but usually don't fast longer than that. Plus, I always have coffee in the mornings, with cream.
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Old 12-14-2013, 05:57 AM   #4
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In the 2007 book Dr J said something on the lines of the magic stops on average when DDs are around 40 hours long. From personal experience, I know, unless something is unbalanced in your system the occasional 48 hour DD is NBD. I believe it would take a lot of looong DDs strung very close together to change JUDDD into a true stress on the body.

The reason I think that is (a) my own didn't-eat-enough mess up, and (b) 2012-2013 studies on autography I found. Lemme explain.

Autography is the cellular clean up that SIRT1 does when activated. The body starts the activation when it recognizes 'famine' (either because calories are below a certain level, as in DD, or because carbs are below a certain level, as in LC). SIRT1 starts waking up and gets down to business. It sends dead/nonfunctional organelles in the cell to be burned for fuel. The famine continues and more SIRT1 wakes up and gets busy. If the cell it is in is dead, SIRT1 sends the whole cell to be burned. But, if the cell is alive the SIRT1 keeps autographying until it burns itself out.

SIRT1 does not stop it's work just because the cell it lives in is all clean and fresh and shiny. It does not stop until it burns itself out.

Which is cool. If one gob of SIRT1 burns out, another gob activates. In theory the cell stays healthy and refreshed. In actuality, if SIRT1 is activated for too long, it starts cleaning up things that are not dirty. It even sends healthy cells to be burned. As time passes, burning healthy cells is not particularly good for the body.

This is why UD calories do need to be eaten. Stop SIRT1 from getting carried away. (And, once a gob of SIRT1 is activated, eating UD cals does not turn it off - it keeps doing it's thing until it uses itself up. Eating UD cals stops more SIRT1 from being activated.)

For me, I figure I ate too few cals for about 4 weeks - and stalled for about 3 weeks - before my NSVs started going away.

In the 2007 book, Dr J said SIRT1 takes - again on average - 14 days to burn itself out. This is the reason, I think, that I can take a two week cruise, watch what I eat to some degree, and come back without gaining weight...or, if I am not so careful, gaining only a few pounds. This is also the reason I tend to fast (and activate more SIRT1) from time to time on vaycay...I like coming back to a friendly scale.

So, it is not an immediate thing. But extending too many DDs too long has potential to unleash the monster.

Did that make sense?

I am so looking forward to the new book.
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Old 12-14-2013, 06:01 AM   #5
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Oh,

I said this before...and no doubt will say it again...but that 2012/2013 research also said ketosis and SIRT1 activation are closely linked.

I think that is beautiful!

I think it means our bodies truly expect times of low-cal and/or low-carb. Our internal janitorial system really is designed to function during those times.

I also suspect - but want to get more info - that over-extending SIRT1 activation plays a role in the infamous LC stalls that some people (raises hand) experience.
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Old 12-14-2013, 08:14 AM   #6
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It does explain things well, Nancy, and thank you for taking the time. I don't think I've had many "very long" fasts since I started JUDDD, and certainly not before. It's really nice to think of all the great things that are potentially happening as we fast eod.
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Old 12-16-2013, 09:13 AM   #7
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autography? or autophagy--
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Old 12-16-2013, 10:25 AM   #8
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nancy, i think i love you.

you have the best way of explaining things. i have learned a lot from you!

add me to the LC stall out. ugh. that was so frustrating.
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Old 12-16-2013, 12:15 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ouizoid View Post
autography? or autophagy--


Spelling - and proof-reading - never was my greatest skill
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Old 12-16-2013, 12:47 PM   #10
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Nancy, I like your use of autography for autophagy.
Juddd allows you to sort of rewrite things in your own way, ie in your own hand, if you know what I mean. And your summaries of science and experience are helping us all do that.
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Old 12-17-2013, 05:57 AM   #11
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Does anybody know whether low dd calories support SIRT activity fully whether or not they come in the form of protein, carb, or fat?
I ask because when I was at goal last time, I started losing muscle and didn't like what was happening to my hair and skin. I guessed that this had to do with reduced protein intake.
This time I'm doing protein on DDs but I often don't get DD coldness, hunger, etc., now. Thoughts?
Thanks.
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Old 12-17-2013, 08:52 AM   #12
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I'm not sure that it matters, really, in terms of Sirts, but I've been focusing on getting more protein on both UDs and DDs, and even though I'm taking in more calories, I'm still slowly losing. With the increased protein, I have NOT decreased carb consumption, so I know it's not reduced glycogen.
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Old 12-17-2013, 10:11 AM   #13
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I don't know about SIRTs but autophagy and reduced IGF-1 comes from protein restriction.

It appears to be a fine line between restricting protein enough to get the benefits but not low enough to lose lean mass. That's why I don't do low carb while doing this - carbs are protein sparing.
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Old 12-17-2013, 12:00 PM   #14
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Hmmm. Thanks. Guess it boils down to experimenting and observing.
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