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Old 09-02-2013, 06:31 PM   #1
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Wonder how a UD/MD LC rotation would work?

After reading the anxiety thread, I have anxiety about intermittent fasting.
Aside from that I have been curious how this would work anyway:

Doing 800-1000 calories, 30-40 fat, 40-60 carbs gross (less than 30 net) and 80 ish protein.
Then on UD doing 2800 ish calories, up to 100 fat, less than 20 total carbs, and up to 120 protein.

Is this ludicrous?
I have been wanting to up my good carbs, and need more for running. My muscles were remaining swollen until I upped the carbs a little.

All of this numbers are before exercise deductions.
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Old 09-02-2013, 08:40 PM   #2
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I'm not sure what your UD numbers should be, but that sounds really high. I'm more concerned about that than I am about the higher DDs. I'm trying something out right now to see if I can maintain doing 2000/1000. My numbers are 1750/300 ish at 20% for weight loss and our weights aren't that different. You could try it and see if it works, given that you exercise, so would need more calories than I do anyway, but if it's not working, I'd suggest lowering your UD calories.

I have been averaging closer to 2000/650 and maintaining.
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Old 09-02-2013, 09:03 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeirasMom View Post
I'm not sure what your UD numbers should be, but that sounds really high. I'm more concerned about that than I am about the higher DDs. I'm trying something out right now to see if I can maintain doing 2000/1000. My numbers are 1750/300 ish at 20% for weight loss and our weights aren't that different. You could try it and see if it works, given that you exercise, so would need more calories than I do anyway, but if it's not working, I'd suggest lowering your UD calories.

I have been averaging closer to 2000/650 and maintaining.
Ms. Dawn,
I am too.
Do you stick to low carb as well?
That's what I have been maintaining on daily...
I just don't think I can survive with traditional DDs.

ETA
I dislike diets, all of them.
I run 2-2.5 miles 5-6 days a week so that's about 200-300 calories daily.

Last edited by Haycyn; 09-02-2013 at 09:13 PM..
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Old 09-02-2013, 09:48 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haycyn View Post
After reading the anxiety thread, I have anxiety about intermittent fasting.
Aside from that I have been curious how this would work anyway:

Doing 800-1000 calories, 30-40 fat, 40-60 carbs gross (less than 30 net) and 80 ish protein.
Then on UD doing 2800 ish calories, up to 100 fat, less than 20 total carbs, and up to 120 protein.

Is this ludicrous?
I have been wanting to up my good carbs, and need more for running. My muscles were remaining swollen until I upped the carbs a little.

All of this numbers are before exercise deductions.
Haycyn, hopefully some other people that exercise regularly and do it fairly intensely can chime in because I'm not entirely sure how to go about it either.

When I was doing JUDDD for the last 7 weeks, I did not have any anxiety and no insomnia. But I always ate something in the evening and basically had ~2-3 meals a day (usually 2 b/c I'm not a breakfast eater) and even snacks, only once going under 500 cal for a day. That didn't feel right for me though but it's probably ok for sedentary people. I'm fairly sure I was always somewhere between 600-900 and then did MD's (moderate days) too a couple of times at ~1000-1200. I always, always have kept my protein up.

Unlike Dawn, I wouldn't be maintaining if I weighed 150 at an average of 1325 ((2000+650)/2) cal/day, I'd be losing a pound a week, even without exercising much. IME, my maintenance at 150 is really close to my app calculator which is 1800 cal/day (they use 12 x weight and adjust for exercise) at that weight. I'm fortunate enough to have good thyroid levels etc. though and a dog/children that force me to exercise every day even if not always a lot, so it's probably a YMMV thing.

You're looking at an average of ~1800-1900/day which is just over maintenance for you (if your TDEE is as predictable as mine). Depending upon how much you run/work out, you'd still definitely lose.

FWIW, I don't agree with Johnson's calculator algorithm on exercising intensity, applying the majority of exercise calories to your TDEE on up days and using the 20-60% approach on the result. That doesn't make sense through all the years I've studied exercise physiology. Even if you worked out for 2 hours intensely and burned 1000 calories doing it, you'd only get 200-350 of them to eat on a dd if you were in WLM? Doesn't make sense. You'd be totally starving. I think he was just applying a hammer to a situation that probably requires a screwdriver for fine-tuning. He's appealing to the sedentary masses though, so I'd look to other sources - or your own experience - to figure things out.
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Old 09-02-2013, 10:23 PM   #5
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Are you looking to maintain or lose? I am no expert, but with the level of exercise you're talking about & the caloric average + low carb (if that's how you want to go) - I would imagine you would probably maintain, and perhaps lose slowly - which is a great way to do it!
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Old 09-03-2013, 04:51 AM   #6
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Wow, thank you all for the responses!! So kind for you ladies to take the time.
I am looking to loose, and I would like to stay low carb but incorporate more veggies. I have just found that that works for me.

I think I would just have to try it and decrease each day a little at a time every week. It sounds very individual with how exercise effects the numbers.
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Old 09-03-2013, 06:45 AM   #7
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It does appear to be very individual. I do not follow a low carb WOE either, preferring to not worry too much about my macros. Some days end up being lower carb, and some higher, but it's not my focus.
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Old 09-03-2013, 10:12 AM   #8
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If your goal is to lose, then the UDs do sound high. What is your age & height?

I've just started doing 3 UDs @ 1600 & 3 DDs @ 800 & 1 MD @ 1200. I gave up trying to do low DDs along with a strenuous exercise program, after experiencing a few negative side effects.

To discover what will work best for you is a process of trial & error. Good Luck!

~ Ann
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Old 09-03-2013, 05:41 PM   #9
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I am 31 and 5'5.
I feel like I have had two mid-days yesterday and today. Just trying to eat better foods.
I don't want too extreme of either, tbh, I am just a bit burnt out on VLC and higher fat. I just want to run a little and eat well, but lose weight
Gluten and sugar are not my Rheumatoid friends, I just say NO as often as I can. I do eat strawberries after a run, sometimes.
So, I guess tomorrow I will eat the best quality food I have available and stay as low as I can.
New day, right?
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Old 09-03-2013, 05:43 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimNana View Post


If your goal is to lose, then the UDs do sound high. What is your age & height?

I've just started doing 3 UDs @ 1600 & 3 DDs @ 800 & 1 MD @ 1200. I gave up trying to do low DDs along with a strenuous exercise program, after experiencing a few negative side effects.

To discover what will work best for you is a process of trial & error. Good Luck!

~ Ann
Hey I just saw your Avi- Do you do 1600 4 days in a row then 800 three in a row?
The only time JUDDD worked for me it was more often than not a three day in a row deal (while I was at work).
Just curious...still learning.
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Old 09-03-2013, 05:51 PM   #11
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My fitbit says my daily average calorie burn is 1750 over 7 days. I have some days around 1650 and some days over 1800 (depending on exercise). I always used my calculated numbers from Dr. J's site at 20% WLM regardless of exercise. So on DDs I eat under 300 and burn up to 1800.

I don't count UDs anymore but know they range from 1400- 1900. I have just this week transitioned back to 5:2 and after 4 UDs in a row am at 121.6.

JUDDD is very flexible though and everyone is very different. JUDDD can only work if you can stick to it and DDs definitely get easier with time. If you want to start with DDs around 800 and then try to work your way down some what that is fine. I would think 2000+ without low DDs at your current weight may not lead to weight loss, but it's worth a try.
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Old 09-03-2013, 07:08 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haycyn View Post
Hey I just saw your Avi- Do you do 1600 4 days in a row then 800 three in a row?
The only time JUDDD worked for me it was more often than not a three day in a row deal (while I was at work).
Just curious...still learning.

No, I still alternate my calories daily. MWF @ 800 / TTS @ 1600 / Sun @ 1200

I eat a macro ratio of 35% Protein / 30% Carbs / 35% Fat

I'm exercising 45 min. daily. 3 days cardio MWF & 3 days strength training TTS.

Hope that helps get you started, then based on your results you can always adjust up or down from there. ~ Ann
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Old 09-03-2013, 07:54 PM   #13
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Something I forgot to mention, in case you're interested in activating SIRT1 & haven't read the book or Dr. Johnson's website.

To do JUDDD according to the book, there is a two week induction phase of 500 calories max. on down days alternated with up days every other day, to activate the so called "skinny gene", SIRT1.

What is SIRT1?

SIRT1 is a gene found in humans and other mammals that helps to promote survival by protecting cells during times when food (and therefore energy) is scarce. Scientists have discovered similar genes in almost all species, including Sir2 in yeast, worms, and fruit flies.

SIRT1 acts as a "rescue gene," repairing the damage done by free radicals and preventing cells from dying prematurely. The gene also causes mitochondria, the power plants of cells, to produce energy at higher levels that are typically associated with younger cells. As a result, SIRT1 is believed to be a principal regulator of lifespan.

The Benefits of SIRT1

The SIRT1 gene, or "skinny gene," assists with weight loss by inhibiting fat storage and increasing fat metabolism. By causing the body to store fewer fat cells, SIRT1 can also slow the aging process by reducing the risk of age-related diseases and health threats, including heart attack and stroke, diabetes, arthritis, and osteoporosis. These conditions have all been linked to an excess amount of fat cells in the body.

In addition, SIRT1 can reduce markers of inflammation and oxidative stress, two other primary causes of aging. Studies show that individuals who live to be 100 years old have lower levels of oxidative stress, meaning fewer free radical cells, than those who live to be 70. Oxidative stress is also thought to be a more reliable indicator of heart disease than cholesterol levels or other factors. In his study on asthma patients, Dr. Johnson showed how restricting calories on alternate days can raise SIRT1 levels and reduce symptoms associated with inflammation.
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