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-   -   Trying the Potato Hack with JUDDD and Type 2 Diabetes (http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/juddd/810696-trying-potato-hack-juddd-type-2-diabetes.html)

RebeccaLatham 08-25-2013 06:41 AM

Trying the Potato Hack with JUDDD and Type 2 Diabetes
 
I have been reading all the threads about the potato hack, and I decided to try it this morning for the first time.

I had been concerned about my blood sugar zooming up if I ate potatoes, but people were saying that it did not happen to them, and someone else said that on Free the Animal, the guy is treating his mother's Type 2 Diabetes with the PH. So I figured I would do it.

Last night, I peeled and boiled a couple of pounds of Yukon Gold and put them in the fridge.

This morning, I checked my blood glucose when I got up and it was 86, so good. Then I ate 1/2 pound of them, with apple cider vinegar, sea salt and a sprinkle of garlic powder.

One hour later, I checked my BG again and it is now 177. Whoa! This is not good!

It appears that this means I should never do this again.

Any thoughts?

Dottie 08-25-2013 07:52 AM

Interesting.
What did it read at 2 hours or more?

RebeccaLatham 08-25-2013 08:12 AM

7:15 am 86
7:45 am 145
8:15 am 177
8:45 am 183
9:15 am 135
9:45 am 107

So far...

Sirtain 08-25-2013 08:17 AM

I would stay away from the potatoes. You are doing so well, why put your body through that?

RebeccaLatham 08-25-2013 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirtain (Post 16573961)
I would stay away from the potatoes. You are doing so well, why put your body through that?

My thoughts exactly!

I just thought it would be a way to get to eat potatoes again after all these years. But it is not worth damaging my pancreas any further.

Deen73 08-25-2013 08:51 AM

I have blood sugar 'issues' due to pcos and I have tried the potato hack. I WISH I could do it because I happen to adore potatoes and I did lose 1.5 lbs that day (even though I couldn't even make it all the way through and had a regular dinner). I didn't have a testing kit on hand -- but by mid-afternoon I was dizzy, slightly nauseous and sweaty -- what I lovingly refer to as that "blood sugar-y feeling" -- where I basically know it's out of whack. Like I said -- I am totally jealous of those who can do it, because eating potatoes all day would be a gastronomical joy for me. But, sadly, 'tis not to be. :(

RebeccaLatham 08-25-2013 08:54 AM

When I was reading the potato hack stuff, they said it was normal for it to do that the first time, then it gets better.

I don't know whether to stick it out or give up. :(

Deen73 08-25-2013 09:11 AM

Hmmm... interesting, Rebecca -- thanks for mentioning that. Perhaps some day I'll give it another go. They were great baked in chicken broth with a few sliced onions and sprinkled in Old Bay -- goodness, I could eat that all day long! :)

RebeccaLatham 08-25-2013 09:15 AM

All I did this morning was have them slightly warmed with a little vinegar, salt and garlic powder, and it was wonderful!

Deen73 08-25-2013 09:28 AM

Mmmmm... that sounds great. It's a wonder I'm not Irish -- love potatoes SOOOOO... My husband says it's cause he's Irish enough for both of us (although, oddly, he's pretty indifferent to potatoes. Fool! lol)

Dottie 08-25-2013 09:39 AM

Rebecca: If you feel good about trying it for the whole day, it's supposed to lower the glycemic response after the first meal of cold potatoes.

I tried it a few times but I felt "off" by late afternoon. My blood sugar dropped low, and maybe that was why I didn't feel right on the PH.
I tested when I was feeling shaky, about 4 hours after a meal of cold potatoes with malt vinegar, and my blood sugar was 58. My normal range is 72-96.
But I'm not diabetic and my blood sugars rarely go over 120 even after a carby meal.
So I can't attest to the responses of a diabetic on it.

Sirtain 08-25-2013 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RebeccaLatham (Post 16573963)

...I just thought it would be a way to get to eat potatoes again after all these years...

Do you have the same blood sugar issues when a small amount of potatoes is buffered by fat and protein? Because that would totally fit into an Up Day meal. :)

RebeccaLatham 08-25-2013 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirtain (Post 16574085)
Do you have the same blood sugar issues when a small amount of potatoes is buffered by fat and protein? Because that would totally fit into an Up Day meal. :)

Potatoes and even some vegetables raise my blood sugar into unacceptable range. So it was the potato hack or nothing.

Sirtain 08-25-2013 10:02 AM

That's too bad. But what can you do? Your body needs what it needs.

Librarygirl 08-25-2013 04:58 PM

Rebecca, I suggest copying and pasting your original question, and your blood sugar response on Mark's Daily Apple. I think that is where the Potato Hack started. I know lots of well-informed people there could give you some good advice. Google "Eat Moar Taters", and that's the thread on that site.

RebeccaLatham 08-25-2013 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Librarygirl (Post 16574510)
Rebecca, I suggest copying and pasting your original question, and your blood sugar response on Mark's Daily Apple. I think that is where the Potato Hack started. I know lots of well-informed people there could give you some good advice. Google "Eat Moar Taters", and that's the thread on that site.

Thanks! I'll do that. :)

mttemple4 08-26-2013 06:05 AM

I suppose the question is whether your high numbers would persist after continuing a hack OR if they are a short-term result from physiological insulin resistance. I mean, even the average person's numbers will spike (though to what degree, who knows) in this hack; surely someone who has been VLC or ZC will feel this even more at the beginning. It's the same principle behind the idea of carbing up for a good three days before taking a Glucose Tolerance Test at the doctor's a la Jenny Ruhl and others.

Now, whether the high numbers would persist and/or if it's worth the roller coaster waiting to see--that's another question altogether. LOL

RebeccaLatham 08-26-2013 06:25 AM

I got an answer over at MDA. Here is what otzi said:

Quote:

The latest talk at FTA is about resistant starch, and using raw potato starch as a supplement for getting resistant starch, which helps control blood glucose.

The potato diet/hack is about weight loss, it's as described in this thread--eat potatoes, lose weight.

Sorry you got the two ideas confused.

However, your BG response to a huge potato-only meal wasn't so bad, about the same as mine. A really bad result would be well over 200 for over an hour. Are you on any meds for T2D?

If you want to try the RS approach to BG control, you would mix 1-4TBS of raw potato starch in some sour cream, and put that on a potato and check post-prandial BG--I think you would see way less than with potato alone.

I think in this thread, it was discussed that the potato hack/diet for weightloss is not advisable for someone with BG control issues, although with the pp's that you reported, I would say you could do the potato diet for a few days and you'd probably see those pp numbers come down and FBG be stable. However, if you are on meds, I don't know...

A normal, slightly insulin resistant person would see a spike between 150-200 about an hour after consuming a large potato meal, it should be almost back to normal at 2 hours and for sure at 3. Some hypoglycemia is normal for a very short time between 2-3 hours because of the huge glucose load and insulin response.
Here is what I answered:

I'm not sure why it is thought that having BG up to 200 is not a problem. Over 140 causes nerve damage.

By the way, I am not on meds or insulin. My BG is totally controlled by my eating a VLC ketogenic diet. I have no need to use resistant starch to control my BG.

RebeccaLatham 08-26-2013 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mttemple4 (Post 16574988)
I suppose the question is whether your high numbers would persist after continuing a hack OR if they are a short-term result from physiological insulin resistance. I mean, even the average person's numbers will spike (though to what degree, who knows) in this hack; surely someone who has been VLC or ZC will feel this even more at the beginning. It's the same principle behind the idea of carbing up for a good three days before taking a Glucose Tolerance Test at the doctor's a la Jenny Ruhl and others.

I ate the potato 24 hours ago. My blood glucose is still 10 points over my normal fasting BG. So, even after 24 hours, my BG did not get back to where it was before the potato.

Imagine what it would be right now if I had continued to eat potatoes for the rest of the day yesterday. I shudder to think...

Quote:

Now, whether the high numbers would persist and/or if it's worth the roller coaster waiting to see--that's another question altogether. LOL
I guess the answer to that question is NO!

Barbo 08-26-2013 11:43 AM

I just saw this post
 
Rebecca,
I did the PH one day. I had a response in blood sugars like you did.
I have type 2 diabetes. Potatoes are something I love. My sugars did
not return to what I call normal until next day. As much as I want to do
the PH the smart thing for me to do is have a small/med. potato with proteins
on an UP day.

Librarygirl 08-26-2013 01:48 PM

Rebecca, I'm glad you got some answers. It sounds as if the PH is not a good idea for diabetics. I have heard of some who have had success, but I have not studied the science behind the PH, or read through the entire thread (not by a long shot). I'm glad you didn't continue to eat potatoes after testing your BG!!

I wonder if JUDDD could lower your BG response to starches? I could not do the PH in the beginning of starting this WOE because it caused a spike then severe hunger. Now I can eat almost anything on a DD and resist any residual hunger resulting from carbs, etc. Now it isn't as pleasant (as sticking to LC on DDs), but the BG response is way lower than it was at first (not tested, just felt).

allisonm 08-26-2013 05:35 PM

This is not surprising to me. Potatoes Raise Blood Glucose Higher Than Sugar

A few years ago a potato marketing board put one of their marketing gurus, Chris Voight, on a potato diet as a promotional tool. The guy blogged while he ate potatoes for a month. He didn't die and he lost some weight. From that, a few people tried it and it became a "thing". There was never much science behind it. It was never endorsed by a doctor - or even the potato marketing board, for that matter.

Please read Peter @ Hyperlipid on the potato diet.

Look, I understand that people claim "success" from doing this, but by "success" they mean only weight loss. Protecting your brain should be at least as important. Alzheimer's is now understood as a form of diabetes. I'd rather stay fat than develop Alzheimer's or dementia later in life. Research has been strongly pointing at carbohydrates for those conditions, heart disease and more.

I love potatoes too. Mostly with butter, though.

allisonm 08-26-2013 05:46 PM

Another thought, Rebecca: look into The Optimal Diet by Kwasniewski, MD. He's a respected doctor in Poland who advocates a high fat, low protein diet with potatoes.

This makes a little sense because meat actually is more insulinogenic than carbohydrate.

RebeccaLatham 08-26-2013 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barbo (Post 16575549)
Rebecca,
I did the PH one day. I had a response in blood sugars like you did.
I have type 2 diabetes. Potatoes are something I love. My sugars did
not return to what I call normal until next day. As much as I want to do
the PH the smart thing for me to do is have a small/med. potato with proteins
on an UP day.

I just got another response from the person at MDA. He said that he doubts that I am diabetic and that I only had a high BG reading because I usually eat low carb. I doubt that, and so does my doctor.

RebeccaLatham 08-26-2013 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Librarygirl (Post 16575729)
Rebecca, I'm glad you got some answers. It sounds as if the PH is not a good idea for diabetics. I have heard of some who have had success, but I have not studied the science behind the PH, or read through the entire thread (not by a long shot). I'm glad you didn't continue to eat potatoes after testing your BG!!

I wonder if JUDDD could lower your BG response to starches? I could not do the PH in the beginning of starting this WOE because it caused a spike then severe hunger. Now I can eat almost anything on a DD and resist any residual hunger resulting from carbs, etc. Now it isn't as pleasant (as sticking to LC on DDs), but the BG response is way lower than it was at first (not tested, just felt).

Even when my BG is extremely high, I do not "feel" anything. I need the meter to know what is going on.

I have thought about having a small amount of starch like potatoes, such a small amount that it would not affect BG, but I think it is not worth it to go to all that trouble to have two bites of potato. I tried doing that once a few years ago (a la Susan Schwarzbein), but it was just frustrating. I would rather have none than just a bite or two. I can get the nutrition I need without potatoes. :)

RebeccaLatham 08-26-2013 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allisonm (Post 16576057)
This is not surprising to me. Potatoes Raise Blood Glucose Higher Than Sugar

A few years ago a potato marketing board put one of their marketing gurus, Chris Voight, on a potato diet as a promotional tool. The guy blogged while he ate potatoes for a month. He didn't die and he lost some weight. From that, a few people tried it and it became a "thing". There was never much science behind it. It was never endorsed by a doctor - or even the potato marketing board, for that matter.

Please read Peter @ Hyperlipid on the potato diet.

Look, I understand that people claim "success" from doing this, but by "success" they mean only weight loss. Protecting your brain should be at least as important. Alzheimer's is now understood as a form of diabetes. I'd rather stay fat than develop Alzheimer's or dementia later in life. Research has been strongly pointing at carbohydrates for those conditions, heart disease and more.

I love potatoes too. Mostly with butter, though.

I guess you noticed that one of my blogs in my signature is the one about using low carb diets to prevent and treat dementia and other neurological diseases.

My mother and her father died of ALS, my other grandfather died of Parkinson's, and two of my younger sisters have dementia (they are in their 50s).

Obviously, I believe this WOE will save me from these fates. :)

RebeccaLatham 08-26-2013 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allisonm (Post 16576080)
Another thought, Rebecca: look into The Optimal Diet by Kwasniewski, MD. He's a respected doctor in Poland who advocates a high fat, low protein diet with potatoes.

This makes a little sense because meat actually is more insulinogenic than carbohydrate.

Funny you should mention Dr. Jan. I wrote a blog post about the Optimal Diet a few years ago in my blog, under the tag "optimal diet". His plan is basically what I follow, and now with JUDDD thrown in.

However, I do not recall him advocating potatoes. He recommends for a person of my height to only eat 56 grams of protein and 28 grams of carbs. There would hardly be any room in there for potatoes.

:dunno:

allisonm 08-26-2013 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RebeccaLatham (Post 16576337)
I guess you noticed that one of my blogs in my signature is the one about using low carb diets to prevent and treat dementia and other neurological diseases.

My mother and her father died of ALS, my other grandfather died of Parkinson's, and two of my younger sisters have dementia (they are in their 50s).

Obviously, I believe this WOE will save me from these fates. :)

Oh - actually, no, I didn't notice that at all. I generally ignore signature lines. It was on my mind because of something I read recently in the research section of another low carb forum. I haven't visited this forum much but I've been reading the other for over ten years and developed some strong opinions about the hazards of eating a lot of carbohydrates.

I'm very sorry to hear about your family members. I hope I didn't touch a nerve.

allisonm 08-26-2013 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RebeccaLatham (Post 16576340)
Funny you should mention Dr. Jan. I wrote a blog post about the Optimal Diet a few years ago in my blog, under the tag "optimal diet". His plan is basically what I follow, and now with JUDDD thrown in.

However, I do not recall him advocating potatoes. He recommends for a person of my height to only eat 56 grams of protein and 28 grams of carbs. There would hardly be any room in there for potatoes.

I haven't read any of his material myself, but have followed a lot of threads about the Optimal Diet with curiosity. Apparently Dr. K. considers potatoes to be the best source of carbohydrates.

I'd like to try his plan sometime but I'd really like to read it directly rather than reading about it. I believe it's only available in Polish, which I can't read.

About your blog - by some enormous coincidence I had your recipe for cocoa-almond-butter-coconut oil fat bombs bookmarked from a recipe thread and I just made them last night. I've had a few too many today (I made mine smaller). Wow, they're good! The salt makes them irresistible. I added a few drops of almond extract, too.

RebeccaLatham 08-27-2013 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allisonm (Post 16576360)
Oh - actually, no, I didn't notice that at all. I generally ignore signature lines. It was on my mind because of something I read recently in the research section of another low carb forum. I haven't visited this forum much but I've been reading the other for over ten years and developed some strong opinions about the hazards of eating a lot of carbohydrates.

I'm very sorry to hear about your family members. I hope I didn't touch a nerve.

Not at all! I am glad that you are trying to get the word out there! In my case, though, you were preaching to the choir! :heart:


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