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Old 08-27-2013, 09:37 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by allisonm View Post
I haven't read any of his material myself, but have followed a lot of threads about the Optimal Diet with curiosity. Apparently Dr. K. considers potatoes to be the best source of carbohydrates.
I'm still not sure how a person would get to eat any potatoes when they are eating as low carb as he suggests...

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About your blog - by some enormous coincidence I had your recipe for cocoa-almond-butter-coconut oil fat bombs bookmarked from a recipe thread and I just made them last night. I've had a few too many today (I made mine smaller). Wow, they're good! The salt makes them irresistible. I added a few drops of almond extract, too.
I'm glad you like them! I have to be very diligent about eating only the amount I am allowed to.
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Old 08-27-2013, 03:55 PM   #32
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I copied that recipe too, Rebecca. I haven't made it yet, but I can just imagine how good it is!
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Old 08-27-2013, 04:16 PM   #33
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I copied that recipe too, Rebecca. I haven't made it yet, but I can just imagine how good it is!
Whatcha waitin' for?
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Old 01-27-2014, 09:07 PM   #34
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Good question Rebecca, certainly appears it was the answers that I was looking for. What T2 diabetic wouldn't look for an excuse to eat potatoes? lol The Potato Hack interested me but I do believe it's totally a weight loss thing for healthy people. And I have to wonder how healthy is it really?? To someone who isn't diabetic but is on the verge and doesn't know it, the PH just might be the thing to throw their insulin out of whack. Thks for posting your bg#'s. Diabetics have to live by our meters and our A1c results. Our meters let us know what we can eat. Some good meaning people in the PH threads on the net just don't know about diabetes and some of their posts could get an unknowing diabetic in trouble.
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Old 01-28-2014, 06:02 AM   #35
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Well put!
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Old 01-28-2014, 03:50 PM   #36
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The entire mechanism behind using the PH for fat loss relies on an effective insulin response, so it would not be an ideal choice for someone with T2D who, by definition, has a faulty insulin response mechanism.
Like all things read on the net, caveat emptor. I am a huge proponent of the PH, I use it frequently, and I do understand the mechanism behind how it works. (In contrast to a previous post in this thread, there actually IS science behind how this works, which we've posted about in various potato threads on LCF, including my PH journal linked in my signature.) Seeing as I used to work in T1D research, saying people who do PH obviously don't understand Diabetes is as incorrect a generalization as saying that LC works for everyone.
Part of the boards is everyone sharing experiences and allowing an individual to take what works for them and discard what doesn't. Just because something doesn't work for you specifically does not make it garbage or junk. It just makes it not workable for your physiology.
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Old 01-28-2014, 04:39 PM   #37
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additionally, some interesting work is being done right now about the impact resistant starch has on T2D. Richard over at Free the Animal has diabetics and others experimenting with using potato starch to drop fasting glucose. A number of diabetics have been experimenting with adding 4 T daily of potato starch (Bob's Red Mill) and have found their fasting glucose numbers consistently dropping. It's worth a read.
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Old 01-28-2014, 06:10 PM   #38
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ouizoid, out of curiosity, are diabetics experimenting in order to be able to eat carbs?
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Old 01-28-2014, 07:25 PM   #39
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ouizoid, out of curiosity, are diabetics experimenting in order to be able to eat carbs?
I know you didn't ask me, but, as far as I know, no they are not. There are some T2Ds who can not get their fasting BGs to an acceptable level with just diet alone and, therefore, need additional medication. The use of RS for the T2Ds is, I believe, in an attempt to lower BG without medications.

It should be important to point out - again - using RS (resistant starch/potato starch) for BG control is not the same as using the PH for fat loss. While there are some individuals who may be able to do both, the PH is not for everyone.

Interestingly enough, there is a recent poster in my journal, a T2D, who is finding success using the potato to lower her BG levels. So it is do-able. Again, just maybe not for everyone.
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Old 03-03-2014, 11:50 AM   #40
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I was searching for threads on the PH, in case I end up needing it this time around, but I'm happy to have found this one right away since it appears PH's are not good for Type II's. Sad, as I love potatoes and would have loved to lose even more eating them.

But I'm very interested in the unmodified RS experiment. Yennie thanks for mentioning the discussion in your journal! I'm off to read through it all.
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Old 03-03-2014, 01:53 PM   #41
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..... Interestingly enough, there is a recent poster in my journal, a T2D, who is finding success using the potato to lower her BG levels. So it is do-able. Again, just maybe not for everyone.
Yes, interesting. Over on a completely separate forum, I have enjoyed a discussion with a T2D gent who's body gets practically sick when he eats fats (he found out when he tried to go LCHF) but he finds eating vegan, with heavy emphasis on potatoes, keeps his BG below 120 and his weight going down.

The more I read, the more I think T2 should be ... is it a syndrome? multiple causes but the same results? is syndrome what I mean?

Nice guy, very interesting discussions. He does random fasting days. I invited him to join us JUDDDing.
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Old 03-03-2014, 02:18 PM   #42
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Yes, interesting. Over on a completely separate forum, I have enjoyed a discussion with a T2D gent who's body gets practically sick when he eats fats (he found out when he tried to go LCHF) but he finds eating vegan, with heavy emphasis on potatoes, keeps his BG below 120 and his weight going down.
That is incredibly interesting Nancy! A co-worker of mine was on a specially prescribed vegan cleanse for 2 months, prescribed by a holistic doctor, who has assured her she will be able to eat normally once the cleanse was over. It was a very rigid diet for those two months, but since then she has in fact been able to eat normally--fruits, grains, potatoes, everything, and her blood sugar is fine, whereas before she would spike very high with fruits.

I used to think Type II was a one-size-fits-all illness, and everyone had to be low-carb. But my own former experience with JUDDDing makes me wonder if, for me, weight loss was the most important ingredient.

I hope your friend does join us over here, I would love to hear more about his story.
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Old 03-03-2014, 02:44 PM   #43
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These two studies treated T2 diabetics with a high carb, low fat vegan diet and had the patients resume full insulin sensitivity despite eating 300 - 400 g carbs a day.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...012-856342.pdf

http://medicc.org/mediccreview/articles/mr_119.pdf
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Old 03-03-2014, 05:37 PM   #44
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deedee, I encourage you to jump over to Frosty's thread....some really interesting info was exchanged this evening.
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Old 03-04-2014, 06:29 AM   #45
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Very interesting studies Frosty, thanks for posting them. And thanks Nancy for pointing me in the direction of that thread. There's so much good science floating around the JUDDD Board, I wish I were more science minded.
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Old 03-04-2014, 11:19 AM   #46
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I am one who has found that eating a fat free vegan diet has done wonders for my glucose control and general health. I am forever grateful that I found the potato hack, because it cured me of my lowcarb fears. I eat a variety of veggie carbs--not wheat--every once in awhile I eat meat, like if I am out for dinner, but by and large I had to realize that added fat made ME fat.
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Old 03-11-2014, 10:43 AM   #47
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I don't have T2 diabetes but it runs in my family.. and I'm trying my first PH on an UD today... I think I'll have a hard reaching UD calories of 1750. we'll see.
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Old 03-11-2014, 11:54 AM   #48
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Green, do you test your bg? If you have any sort of IR, I'd be very curious to see your results.
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Old 03-11-2014, 12:50 PM   #49
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Green, do you test your bg? If you have any sort of IR, I'd be very curious to see your results.
I wish i had test strips! I ran out... I used to check BG when doing NK. Maybe I'll stop by the pharmacy and get some in a little while. How often and when should I measure?

Also, I think I have symptoms of IR which NK may have exacerbated.. not sure though. I do know that I am majorly addicted to sugar and used to binge on it all day long... based on past behavior and family history, I think it's likely that I do.

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Old 03-11-2014, 01:58 PM   #50
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I wish i had test strips! I ran out... I used to check BG when doing NK. Maybe I'll stop by the pharmacy and get some in a little while. How often and when should I measure?
If you're looking to see how you react to the PH, it'd probably be good to get a baseline for what your bg is like normally. So maybe you could test today after a meal and see what's normal for you? Generally people test between 1-2 hours after eating. But if you don't get the strips, you can also just see how you feel during the PH, I think the diabetics who reacted poorly were able to feel right away that something wasn't right.
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Old 03-11-2014, 11:05 PM   #51
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I don't have T2 diabetes but it runs in my family.. and I'm trying my first PH on an UD today... I think I'll have a hard reaching UD calories of 1750. we'll see.
So I just want to point out that most of the people who hack DO NOT try to reach their JUDDD UD cals. In fact, typically I don't count cals when I'm hacking (rather, I track them, which is different, since I record the final number but do not let that number dictate how and what I eat for the day, if that makes sense). I don't see how it would be possible to eat an UD's worth of cals for potatoes.

If you look through my journal entries of when I'm actually hacking, I'm hitting around 800-1000 calories a day, each day, for the entire duration of the hack.
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Old 03-12-2014, 05:10 AM   #52
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If you're looking to see how you react to the PH, it'd probably be good to get a baseline for what your bg is like normally. So maybe you could test today after a meal and see what's normal for you? Generally people test between 1-2 hours after eating. But if you don't get the strips, you can also just see how you feel during the PH, I think the diabetics who reacted poorly were able to feel right away that something wasn't right.
The strips were far too expensive to buy in the drugstore without a prescription, The ones I used before came with my meter. Oh well for that. I may look for them on ebay or something. I felt fine yesterday. There was one point about 3 hours after my first meal of roasted potatoes that I felt a little queasy for a few minutes but then it was over. I wonder if only eating cooked and then cooled potatoes would do less BG spiking since it has more RS.

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So I just want to point out that most of the people who hack DO NOT try to reach their JUDDD UD cals. In fact, typically I don't count cals when I'm hacking (rather, I track them, which is different, since I record the final number but do not let that number dictate how and what I eat for the day, if that makes sense). I don't see how it would be possible to eat an UD's worth of cals for potatoes.

If you look through my journal entries of when I'm actually hacking, I'm hitting around 800-1000 calories a day, each day, for the entire duration of the hack.
Thanks Yennie. Yes it was insane to think I could eat more than even a 1000 cals of potatoes yesterday... I think I only ate 700 cals or so. I'm not down a single ounce today but I wonder if there's some glycogen/water storage. I also went to a ballet class yesterday and took a walk last night.

Fasting BK were at 0.4 this morning. I wonder if the fat burning generally happens when potatoes are being metabolized.

I'm not sure whether to try it again today. I'll look through your journal.
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Old 03-12-2014, 09:04 AM   #53
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I went ahead and ate reheated mash potatoes late this morning. I think I'll do another day and see what happens.
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Old 03-14-2014, 10:51 PM   #54
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Hi, although I am no longer able to follow JUDDD , maybe some of you will be interested in my experience with both the Potato Hack and the use of Bob's Red Mill Potato Starch. I am a T2 diabetic on 1500 mg of Metformin daily and follow the usual low carb diet a la Dr Atkins. And have gotten quite good control of my BG with that WOE and the Metformin, but DO love potatoes so tried a "modified potato hack." NOT A GOOD IDEA. My blood sugar shot up alarmingly, but then I began to read on Mark's Daily Apple and Free The Animal about "Resistant Starch." So I tried eating cooked, cold potatoes recommended as a dietary source of RS. (Cold cooked potatoes contain some Resistant Starch but they still raised my BG although not as much as the baked or mashed taters.)

After reading hundreds of fascinating comments about the varied health advantages of Resistant Starch, I gradually worked my way up to the recommended dose of 2 Tablespoons (twice a day) of Bob's Red Mill Unmodified Potato Starch as recommended at Mark's Daily Apple and Free The Animal. The results are amazing! I now awaken to a fasting BG of 82 or 84 ( in the past it would never drop below the low 90's) And my PP readings are rarely out of the 130's and drop quickly back to the low 100's or into the high 90's.

I tried JUDDD successfully last year for awhile but it does not seem to agree with my diabetes so regretfully have had to drop it and now just use LC along with Fast Five sometimes. (My weight loss is slow, but the trend is always downward a bit at a time.)

I am not going to try to explain why or how Resistant Starch works or the details of its numerous beneficial health effects here--you can read dozens of posts about this at MDA or FTA which explain, far better than I ever could, this complicated subject accurately, clearly, and scientifically based on research and the personal experience of forum members. All I can say is, if you seek better blood glucose readings you might find it helpful to try adding Potato Starch to your program as I did, but we are like snowflakes, each of us is unique--so YMMV.

PS--I DO NOT regard my good BG readings using Potato Starch as an excuse to cheat!
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Old 03-15-2014, 09:15 AM   #55
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Thank you, DABG, for sharing your story. I think its a valuable high light that the potato hack and using RSdor BG control are not necessarily the same thing.
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Old 03-15-2014, 09:36 AM   #56
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Yes thank you for sharing! I had bought a bag of RS but I wasn't using that much. This morning I made a protein shake with two tablespoons and even though I threw some strawberries in there, and had eaten a GLCB bagel for breakfast, an hour later my bg was 89. When I woke up this morning it was 102 (dawn phenomenon since yesterday was a DD). I'm going to keep experimenting with it but that was exciting to see!
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Old 03-15-2014, 08:09 PM   #57
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Yennie, I was really hoping I could do the Potato Hack, but my darned body chemistry would not cooperate. And yes, using RS is completely different from the PH. But it took me hours of online digging and reading before I decided the people advising T2 diabetics like me to try Resistant Starch were not total wackos. (And by the way, I hope no one will confuse Resistant Starch with "safe starch, " they are not the same.)

DeeDee, there are other sources of RS besides Potato Starch as you probably know, but I found The Bob's Red MIll Potato Starch the easiest to use and the cheapest and also the safest (non-GMO, etc.) I mix mine with a fruit juice glass of plain water and chug it. It is not bad, a little chalky, but I just gulp it down. So delighted to hear you are already getting better BG readings. I will be going to have a new A1c blood draw in a few weeks and it will be very interesting to see what shows up.
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Old 03-17-2014, 06:20 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by gotsomeold View Post
Yes, interesting. Over on a completely separate forum, I have enjoyed a discussion with a T2D gent who's body gets practically sick when he eats fats (he found out when he tried to go LCHF) but he finds eating vegan, with heavy emphasis on potatoes, keeps his BG below 120 and his weight going down.

The more I read, the more I think T2 should be ... is it a syndrome? multiple causes but the same results? is syndrome what I mean?

Nice guy, very interesting discussions. He does random fasting days. I invited him to join us JUDDDing.
As a mom of a type 1 diabetic (she is 13 and was diagnosed 3 years ago) I believe that ALL diabetes should be classified differently. Type 1 is so completely different from type 2. My daughter has no hope of getting off her insulin injections. At least type 2s do IF they even need them. Don't even get me started on them considering adding a 3rd diabetes to the mix. Type 1s are sooooo different! Definitely agreed that we need a new way to classify them all.
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