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-   -   Increasing Food on Up Days Instead of Down Days? (http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/juddd/810152-increasing-food-up-days-instead-down-days.html)

RebeccaLatham 08-15-2013 04:15 PM

Increasing Food on Up Days Instead of Down Days?
 
I have a question for the more experienced JUDDDers:

Right now, my DDs are 386 calories and my UDs are 1544 calories.

Here is my problem - 1544 calories is still not a lot of food. I really don't get to eat to satiety on my UDs. Does anyone go over their higher number and still have success? I would like to eat a little bit more, but I don't want to sabotage the good results I am getting doing it by the numbers.

Also, I noticed that as you "climb the ladder" toward maintenance, you always eat the same amount on the UDs, but eat increasingly more on the DDs until you reach 60% of your UDs.

Has anyone ever tried keeping the DDs low and slowly increasing the UDs? I would not mind eating only 386 calories on my DDs if I knew that I got to eat more than 1544 on my UDs.

Any thoughts?

LoCarbGal 08-15-2013 04:18 PM

I have definitely lowered DDs and raised UDs and it has worked great for me. I think I've finally hit a point where I've needed to lower my UDs a smidge, and that's fine. You're right, 1500ish is not a lot. I'd much rather restrict further on DDs and get to eat generously on UDs!

KeirasMom 08-15-2013 04:28 PM

I didn't, but I know one of our long time maintainers (TheRedhead (?)) keeps her DDs fairly low in maintenance and eats quite a bit more than the calculated number for her UDs. She's been doing that for a long time with great results. I don't know about WLM though.

RebeccaLatham 08-15-2013 04:29 PM

Thanks, Carol!

I was hoping that would be the answer! An additional problem that I have is that I am doing zero carb to manage my T2D, and that means no veggies, etc., so the food I am eating on my up days are just meat, eggs and fat, which are pretty calorie dense, meaning that I don't get a lot of food. It's not like I get to fill up on big salads and stuff.

Also, I know that there are people here who are not eating low carb when they are doing JUDDD, but I am and that means that I just have to eat less food overall, to stay at the calorie level I have been assigned.

Judging by your galloping horse, you have been have a lot of success with your weight loss goals! Congratulations! Did you lose all that weight with JUDDD?

lylydvd 08-15-2013 04:51 PM

for maintain you can eat up to 2500 3000 calories on up days if you want to maintain so you don't need to count calories on up days i know people who can eat up to 3000 calories every other day and still losing weight slowly though but they didn't gain any fat may be water sometimes but that going to happen anyway even if you're dieting

RebeccaLatham 08-15-2013 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lylydvd (Post 16560849)
for maintain you can eat up to 2500 3000 calories on up days if you want to maintain so you don't need to count calories on up days i know people who can eat up to 3000 calories every other day and still losing weight slowly though but they didn't gain any fat may be water sometimes but that going to happen anyway even if you're dieting

Thanks for that info! After I hit my goal (which is only 3.4 pounds away now), I am definitely going to try to eat a little bit more and see what I can "get away with" so that I am not always feeling hungry.

Librarygirl 08-15-2013 06:14 PM

Melinda (Flutter) is at 132 now, I think, and she eats about 1800+ on UDs, but 0-150 on DDs.

Carly 08-15-2013 07:31 PM

When I maintained 126 for 4 months I did 5:2. On the 2 DDs I ate under 250 and the UDs I didn't count, but to be fair they fell roughly between 1400-1700 most of the 5 UDs. I'm sure if I did every other day and stayed under 300 on DD's I could push UDs to 1650 and maintain my current weight. I'm trying to lose just a few more and then I will go back to 5:2. I loved that for maintenance.
My current numbers are 1550/312 and I exercise 5-7 days a week, but don't add back exercise calories.

RebeccaLatham 08-15-2013 07:46 PM

Thanks, Carly!

LoCarbGal 08-15-2013 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RebeccaLatham (Post 16560818)
Thanks, Carol!

I was hoping that would be the answer! An additional problem that I have is that I am doing zero carb to manage my T2D, and that means no veggies, etc., so the food I am eating on my up days are just meat, eggs and fat, which are pretty calorie dense, meaning that I don't get a lot of food. It's not like I get to fill up on big salads and stuff.

Also, I know that there are people here who are not eating low carb when they are doing JUDDD, but I am and that means that I just have to eat less food overall, to stay at the calorie level I have been assigned.

Judging by your galloping horse, you have been have a lot of success with your weight loss goals! Congratulations! Did you lose all that weight with JUDDD?

Yes, I can see how zero carb would have its own unique challenges, and good for you for making it work with JUDDD!

Thanks for the congrats! Yes, I'm very happy with my progress overall. I lost almost 55 pounds with Atkins, mostly 20g or less, in about 7 months, and then switched over to JUDDD for the last (almost) year and have lost almost 75 during that time. I will always love LC and Dr Atkins, but JUDDD has been a life changer for me. I just love being able to really eat fun stuff EOD!

RebeccaLatham 08-16-2013 03:46 AM

I feel the same way about Dr. Atkins. Doing Atkins was my "gateway WOE" into a whole world of health!

Carly 08-16-2013 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RebeccaLatham (Post 16561336)
I feel the same way about Dr. Atkins. Doing Atkins was my "gateway WOE" into a whole world of health!

Does the zero carb manage your T2D better than say 20 net carbs? When I was low carb I hated having to minimize things like lettuce, cucumbers, celery, which don't/ didn't impact my blood sugar, but I thought I had to minimize them to stay at 20 net in order to lose. Of course I stopped LC a month into JUDDD and still lost 70+ pounds so I'm not sure I was that carb sensitive and my T2D is gone now :jumpjoy:

RebeccaLatham 08-16-2013 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carly (Post 16561474)
Does the zero carb manage your T2D better than say 20 net carbs? When I was low carb I hated having to minimize things like lettuce, cucumbers, celery, which don't/ didn't impact my blood sugar, but I thought I had to minimize them to stay at 20 net in order to lose. Of course I stopped LC a month into JUDDD and still lost 70+ pounds so I'm not sure I was that carb sensitive and my T2D is gone now :jumpjoy:

It was when eating around 15 net carbs and having my blood sugar go close to diabetic range very quickly, that I talked to my doctor about it. Also, when I eat anything with sugar, my blood glucose will shoot up to almost 180.

I read on Blood Sugar 101 that a non-diabetic will rarely go over 120, no matter what they eat, and will never go over 140. Ever. My doctor told me to go zero carb and see how I do.

I am managing my blood sugar doing this, but when I hit my goal weight (3.4 pounds to go), I am going to start adding back in very small amounts of low glycemic veggies and check my blood sugar and blood ketones and see if I can handle it. If not, it's back to ZC.

allisonm 08-16-2013 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RebeccaLatham (Post 16561523)
It was when eating around 15 net carbs and having my blood sugar go close to diabetic range very quickly, that I talked to my doctor about it. Also, when I eat anything with sugar, my blood glucose will shoot up to almost 180.

Was this before you were doing NK or while on it? Your blood glucose should be significantly lower when you reduce protein.

RebeccaLatham 08-16-2013 09:47 AM

This was while I was in NK. My blood glucose was normal, and then it started going up. That's when I talked to the doctor and he said three little words - Just Eat Meat.

RebeccaLatham 08-16-2013 11:38 AM

I have another question about the original topic:

On my UD, I eat 1544 cals and on my DD, I eat 386 cals. This is a total for 2 days of 1930 cals.

If I wanted to, could I eat 1930 cals on my UD and eat nothing on my DD? Would that work?

Flutter 08-16-2013 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Librarygirl (Post 16560946)
Melinda (Flutter) is at 132 now, I think, and she eats about 1800+ on UDs, but 0-150 on DDs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RebeccaLatham (Post 16561878)
I have another question about the original topic:

On my UD, I eat 1544 cals and on my DD, I eat 386 cals. This is a total for 2 days of 1930 cals.

If I wanted to, could I eat 1930 cals on my UD and eat nothing on my DD? Would that work?

As Cindy stated, what youre inquiring is precisely what works for me. ;)

Carly 08-16-2013 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RebeccaLatham (Post 16561878)
I have another question about the original topic:

On my UD, I eat 1544 cals and on my DD, I eat 386 cals. This is a total for 2 days of 1930 cals.

If I wanted to, could I eat 1930 cals on my UD and eat nothing on my DD? Would that work?

It should work in theory, but your DD number is 25%- correct? If you are going to add the 2 days together I would use the 20% DD number to start. I'm unclear though, is this for maintenance or weight loss? If you are wanting to maintain I would use a higher percent DD added to the UD, but if you are still losing I would not add more than 20% to your UD to start. I'm guessing the bounce will be big, but if you are not bothered by the bounce it should be fine. I have to say its a YMMV kind of thing though.

RebeccaLatham 08-16-2013 02:49 PM

Quote:

I'm guessing the bounce will be big, but if you are not bothered by the bounce it should be fine.
Flutter, do you experience a lot of bouncing around eating this way?

Quote:

It should work in theory, but your DD number is 25%- correct? If you are going to add the 2 days together I would use the 20% DD number to start. I'm unclear though, is this for maintenance or weight loss? If you are wanting to maintain I would use a higher percent DD added to the UD, but if you are still losing I would not add more than 20% to your UD to start.
It is for weight loss. I still have 8 pounds of body fat to lose and 4.6 pounds of muscle to gain.

If I reduce it to 20%, it will only be a reduction of 77 calories. But, at 20%, it would mean I would eat 1853 on my UD and nothing on my DD.

When I think about eating nothing every other day, it sounds hard, but eating only 386 has not been easy either, and it feels almost like eating nothing.

Carly 08-16-2013 02:59 PM

I'm a "by the book" girl. I would encourage you to follow the plan as written for at least 3-4 weeks before making big adjustments. The DDs get much, much easier and the appetite suppression will kick in with the SIRTs so you may feel quite full on your 1500 in no time at all. I have to say that I'm very satisfied on my 1550 almost all the time. If you make a lot of "tweaks" early on you may never find out that the plan worked perfectly without needing adjustments. That being said the plan needs to be livable so do what works for you.

Dottie 08-16-2013 03:03 PM

Rebecca, only you know your diabetes, but wouldn't total fasting every other day cause a problem?
You may be better served to go 500 cals on DD's and see how it goes that way.

RebeccaLatham 08-16-2013 03:08 PM

Thanks, Carly. That makes a lot of sense.

I guess I'm just feeling like I am not getting enough to eat on my UDs. I noticed on another thread that there was a discussion of whether you are supposed to eat no higher than what the calculator says on your UDs or just eat until you are satisfied.

Someone said that the book does not mention limiting what you eat on your UDs, but then the website has the calculator that says how much to eat on your UDs, giving the impression that you are not supposed to go over that.

So, if you are going "by the book", are you going by the actual book, that says to eat what you want to on UDs, or are you going by the website, that says to limit what you eat?

Plus, there seem to be a lot of people here testifying that they eat way over what the calculator says to eat on UDs, and they do just fine and still lose weight.

:dunno:

So, maybe by eating no more than what the calculator tells me to, I am bringing my hunger on myself unnecessarily...

RebeccaLatham 08-16-2013 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dottie (Post 16562149)
Rebecca, only you know your diabetes, but wouldn't total fasting every other day cause a problem?
You may be better served to go 500 cals on DD's and see how it goes that way.

Thanks for the concern, Dottie, but I do not take insulin and do not have any symptoms of low blood sugar, even when I eat nothing. My problems all go in the other direction! :)

RebeccaLatham 08-16-2013 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flutter (Post 16562085)
As Cindy stated, what youre inquiring is precisely what works for me. ;)

Maybe I misunderstood, but I was looking at some of your recent weigh-ins, and it seems like you are eating something on your DDs. Maybe you have recently started eating nothing on your DDs?

Carly 08-16-2013 03:22 PM

I have to make sure I eat all my UD calories. I was never an over eater and gained my weight through the loss of physical ability to run daily and from sleepwalk eating. If you are one who tends to over eat I would encourage you to use the calculator. I don't count UDs anymore, but I am very aware of the calorie counts of the foods I eat. If I don't plan accordingly my UDs will be under so in the beginning when my UDs were over 1900 I had to eat fattening things just to get to that number. Now 1550 is very doable. I'm pretty much at goal so my UDs can be a range like 1400-1700, but usually right about 1550. The book says to "eat normally" on your UD. Most of us don't really know what "normally" is so the calculator is a good tool. I say stick with what the calculator says until you have reason to believe that it is not working. Just my humble suggestion. Others may feel differently. We all only have our own experience to go by.

RebeccaLatham 08-16-2013 03:24 PM

Thanks again, Carly. What you say makes sense!

Librarygirl 08-16-2013 06:12 PM

Flutter (Melinda) is in maintenance, so she may be eating more on her DDs now. :)

As for appetite suppression, I've only just now begun to feel satisfied on my UDs and not over-eating. It's been 10 months! I didn't overeat the entire time, but many days I just couldn't stand the hunger on UDs and snacked too much and went over my calories. Now, I still get hungry between breakfast and lunch sometimes, and between lunch and dinner, but I ride it out. I guess that's what they call normal.:o

ETA: DDs I feel hunger all day, but I'm used to it and it's no big deal. Being hungry on UDs used to seem wrong lol. :D I thought I should eat as much as I wanted, but of course it was too much.

Flutter 08-16-2013 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RebeccaLatham (Post 16562160)
Maybe I misunderstood, but I was looking at some of your recent weigh-ins, and it seems like you are eating something on your DDs. Maybe you have recently started eating nothing on your DDs?

Nope, you are correct. Since hitting maintenance last month, I've allowed myself more calories on DDs to see if I can get this maintenance thing down. During WLM, my normal DDs were coffee w/ splashes of skim milk or SF creamer and if I was miserable later on, I'd have a skinny latte. If you are completely fasting with 0 cals, I still had more than you in WLM and I lost fine. I would have to go back and look at my DD averages, but they are all listed in the daily WI threads from pretty much when I started. My point is, FOR ME, I was able to continue losing still having more UD calories than I'm technically allowed, and that was with very low DD cals. I can maintain nicely eating over my UD cals with DD cals that are higher now as well. Make sense?

I think I might cry if I have to lower my UD numbers to the calculated ones for my weight. (they must be what yours are)

Flutter 08-16-2013 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Librarygirl (Post 16562401)
Flutter (Melinda) is in maintenance, so she may be eating more on her DDs now. :)

As for appetite suppression, I've only just now begun to feel satisfied on my UDs and not over-eating. It's been 10 months! I didn't overeat the entire time, but many days I just couldn't stand the hunger on UDs and snacked too much and went over my calories. Now, I still get hungry between breakfast and lunch sometimes, and between lunch and dinner, but I ride it out. I guess that's what they call normal.:o

ETA: DDs I feel hunger all day, but I'm used to it and it's no big deal. Being hungry on UDs used to seem wrong lol. :D I thought I should eat as much as I wanted, but of course it was too much.

:heart::up:

Flossyliz 08-17-2013 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RebeccaLatham (Post 16562132)

When I think about eating nothing every other day, it sounds hard, but eating only 386 has not been easy either, and it feels almost like eating nothing.

This is exactly why Dr J devised the aternate day diet. Ideally, we would fast completely on DDs but people soon rebel against that regimen!

May I suggest a different approach? Many of us find glucomannan usefully filling and sustaining, either as miracle noodles in soup, or as powder to thicken. You need to drink a lot of water when you use it, but that helps with appetite too.

Cindy's right, DDs usually do get easier once the sirtuin is established. :)


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