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Old 08-07-2013, 09:14 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calichris View Post
With appreciation to Slowsure for bringing this to our attention, I wanted to start a thread for sharing research and personal experiences related to improving body composition (preserving/building muscle mass while losing excess fat stores).

I've been reading that some good ideas for preserving lean body mass while losing weight include:

- resistance training
- adequate protein intake
- avoiding tons of cardio, which may be counterproductive, but intervals (particularly high-intensity interval training or HIIT) are recommended.

My plan is to have my body composition evaluated in August or September, then recheck every 4-6 months until goal, increase protein, add more resistance training, and continue HIIT. I'm going to continue light to moderate cardio, but not overdo it. I'm also going to try to use the highest calorie numbers on which I can lose an average of about 1-2 pounds a week.

I'll start us out with a quote from Mark's Daily Apple (paleo site) about protein:



I do not know (and maybe not a lot of research has been done?) about how intermittent fasting affects all of this.


This has been my main concern about IF. There hasn't been enough longterm research on humans yet to be sure, that's the reason for my guinea pig avi mascot

So what I've been doing for the last year, is taking 3 mos. breaks from IFing and doing BFFM - Burn the Fat Feed the Muscle. Tom Vento advises to cycle cals. & carbs. to build muscle and lose fat at the same time (which is impossible to do on a VLC diet, because you need a surplus of Cals. to build muscle), along with doing a resistance strength training program and alternate day HIT cardio. With the BFFM WOE you eat 20 - 30% below TDEE for 3 days in a row & then 1 day after you either eat at your TDEE maintence level or slightly higher (depending on whether your goal is to retain or gain LBM). It works great for me, until I below low 23% BF like I am now, and then I stall out. Which is why I'm back for at least the next six weeks to do 4:3 in hopes of getting to 20% BF. In the past my experience is after 8 Wks. that I start losing LBM again.

A reasonably easy and more reliable than a scale way to track your Body fat % & LBM is using the NAVY Method (google search for calculators). It uses the following measurements for women - height, neck, waist & hips. Once you have the estimated BF%, then multiply your current weight by that to find out your pounds of body fat & the remainder is considered pounds of LBM. For the average woman who doesn't want to be a fitness model with less than 15% BF, It will give you a starting point that is the easiest and most inexpensive way to track. All you need is a tape measure.

HTH! ~ Ann
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Last edited by SlimNana; 08-07-2013 at 09:21 AM..
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Old 08-07-2013, 09:39 AM   #62
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Thanks for the mention of the Navy method, Ann. I'm going to do those calculations and go from there. I'm not quite ready to go for the hydrostatic test yet.
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Old 08-08-2013, 06:53 AM   #63
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Okay, inspired by this thread I started lifting weights. I went to the gym last night and did my first workout. I am planning on going once per week until school starts, just to get used to it, then three times per week.

I also (foolishly) went to the Navy calculator, and discovered that although I have gone down almost 30 pounds, I am still obese. 42% fat! 100 pounds of lean, and 73 pounds of fat. I need to hunt around for my old measurements and see where I started.

So, my initial goal, is just to be doing this! Do my workouts. I'll see where I am at the end of September.

I know I want to be reducing my fat, but I also want to build up my lean body mass. 100 is just too little for a 5'8" woman.
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Old 08-08-2013, 07:47 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Sirtain View Post
Okay, inspired by this thread I started lifting weights. I went to the gym last night and did my first workout. I am planning on going once per week until school starts, just to get used to it, then three times per week.

I also (foolishly) went to the Navy calculator, and discovered that although I have gone down almost 30 pounds, I am still obese. 42% fat! 100 pounds of lean, and 73 pounds of fat. I need to hunt around for my old measurements and see where I started.

So, my initial goal, is just to be doing this! Do my workouts. I'll see where I am at the end of September.

I know I want to be reducing my fat, but I also want to build up my lean body mass. 100 is just too little for a 5'8" woman.
100 pounds would put you at 0% fat. Women need 20-24% fat to be in the healthy range, so don't get hung up on that 100 pound number.
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Old 08-08-2013, 07:57 AM   #65
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I meant 100 pounds of lean body mass is too little for my height.

I think it should be 110-120. Then a healthy serving of fat, maybe 30-40 pounds, bringing me to somewhere between 22-25% fat as an ideal. But heck, at this point, 30% would look pretty good!
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Old 08-08-2013, 07:58 AM   #66
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Mine came out body fat 40% (obese, which is what the BMI chart tells me) with a lean mass of 120 lbs. That would make my goal weight, at 25% body fat, 150??? That is in the BMI overweight range for my height. But if I lose lean body mass ...

(I still want to do the hydrostatic, but now I need to wait until my job situation is stabilized.)

Last edited by calichris; 08-08-2013 at 07:59 AM..
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Old 08-08-2013, 07:59 AM   #67
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Try not to freak out too much over your high BF%. That calculator tends to overestimate a woman's % if you carry most of your extra weight in your hips and lower body, like I do. Those of us who have an hour glass figure or pear shaped. That's why it seems to be more accurate for women who have an apple shape and men, who carry their extra weight in their waist.

BFFM's Tom Venuto (sorry I mis-spelled it in prior posts) prefers using calipers to pinch skin folds in four different places, but that is impossible to do on yourself with any accuracy and even that is just an estimate. The important thing is to have a simple and easy way to measure, to track it and watch the trend, and over time see the change. Most importantly it reinforces how we should not solely rely on or trust the number on the scale.

Good luck! Ann
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Old 08-08-2013, 10:47 AM   #68
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THE NORMAL PERCENTAGE OF BODY FAT FOR WOMEN
By Jared Jones

Many things play a role in a person's body composition, including gender, diet, fitness level, genetics and activity level. When evaluating body fat, it is important to remember that it's not only high levels of fat that can be a risk, but also levels that are too low. The optimal level of body fat isn't always the lowest and varies with each individual.*

LOW
This classification usually encompasses elite female athletes. For women ages 19 to 29, anything under 19 percent is considered low. Women ages 30 to 39 should be under 21 percent, while women in their 40s should be under 24 percent to be classified as low body fat. Woman 50 years old and older who are less than 28 percent body fat are included in the low body fat category.

HEALTHY
Most women who exercise regularly and are in good condition are included in the "healthy" body fat range. Women ages 19 to 29 whose body fat is between 19 to 22 percent are included in the healthy range. Also included are women ages 30 to 39 with body fat between 20 to 24 percent. Women in their 40s with body fat between 23 percent and 27 percent, and women 50 and older with body fat from 27 to 31 percent are well within the healthy range of body fat.

ACCEPTABLE
Women with body fat in the acceptable range are those that could improve their body composition and overall wellness by decreasing it slightly, but also don't have any health-related problems caused by excess body fat. The acceptable ranges for classification are between 22 percent and 25 percent for women agess19 to 29, 23 percent and 28 percent for women in their 30s, 26 percent and 31 percent for women in their 40s, and between 31 percent and 34 percent for women ages 50 and older.

HIGH
The "high" body fat category is transitional in nature between the acceptable and obese categories. Only a small percentage of women are included in this category, as most fall either above or below this category. The ranges for this classification are between 25 percent and 30 percent for women ages 19 to 29, 26 percent and 32 percent for women in their 30s, 29 percent and 34 percent for women in their 40s, and between 34 percent and 38 percent for women ages 50 and older.

OBESE
The obese category is the most important and dangerous classification. Women who are in this category should work with health-care professionals to do whatever is necessary to get their body fat reduced to the acceptable range. Many health-related medical conditions are associated with obesity and they include but are not limited to heart disease, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, diabetes, certain cancers and others. Women ages 19 to 29 who are above 30 percent are in the obese category. For women in their 30s, the number is anything above 31 percent, and the percentage for women in their 40s is anything above 33 percent. As women go through menopause, it effects weight gain and loss which makes it harder to stay under the 37 percent classification line.
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Old 08-08-2013, 11:02 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calichris View Post
Mine came out body fat 40% (obese, which is what the BMI chart tells me) with a lean mass of 120 lbs. That would make my goal weight, at 25% body fat, 150??? That is in the BMI overweight range for my height. But if I lose lean body mass ...

(I still want to do the hydrostatic, but now I need to wait until my job situation is stabilized.)
My goal of 190 would still put me in BMI's obese category, but if/when I make it, I would have ~20% BF, which is no one's idea of obese. I disregard the BMI chart entirely.
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Old 08-08-2013, 01:08 PM   #70
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I also wonder about the whole waist measurement as an indicator, at least for those of us who WERE obese and now aren't. I have a lot of extra skin, and I know this increases my waist measurement, even though not all of it is fat. This just occurred to me, and is making me feel better, so I'm thinking I could take an inch or two off my measurement. That's my rationalization, and I'm sticking to it!
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Old 08-08-2013, 04:38 PM   #71
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That is interesting Ntombi. I don't know how accurate the Navy calculation is (?) but I do know I'm large boned and tend to add muscle easily, so I wouldn't be surprised if the BMI is a bit off for me. I'd like to see what the hydrostatic says though.
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Old 08-08-2013, 05:18 PM   #72
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Wow what a great thread! I think Fred Hahn's Slow Burn book might help a lot of us who may not be able to go to a gym. I think he has some home routines?

Also I've read somewhere (can't remember where exactly), that the body goes for "low hanging fruit" when using protein from muscles. We all assume that it's healthy tissue being consumed in re-cycling protein. But as I understand it, the body uses the remnants and broken tissues first then goes on to catabolize other viable tissues. So I would think it's possible that some of the protein being consumed could even be the empty cell walls of the fat cells we've just evacuated. (I've also read it's a myth that fat cells hang around forever unless we have them sucked out with liposuction...but I can't substantiate that.)

I do realize the need for LBM conditioning as well as cardio. Ntombi so glad you're here and really interesting article!
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Old 08-08-2013, 09:28 PM   #73
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I know it's important to skip a day in between weight workouts, but does anyone know if it's recommended to wait until you are no longer sore from your previous workout to do weight work again, or does it not matter?
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Old 08-09-2013, 06:35 AM   #74
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Pooticus - I've also heard a few people mention Convict Conditioning as an at home program. I'm not familiar with it but it may be worth looking into. I've done Tom Venuto's program and it's good - it's what I think of as a split program (chest/shoulders/tris one day, legs/back/biceps/calves the other).
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Old 01-02-2014, 09:21 PM   #75
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What results are you all getting now a few months out? Research found?? Before and after photos out there for just ADF? Or how best to get muscular and lean legs in addition to ADF?? Need some motivation for the new year and to set goals for working out. Thanks.
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Old 01-05-2014, 06:11 AM   #76
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Chris I too am curious as to how your lifting is going? I picked up running last summer and found I love it! This cold weather has stopped my running and I cant wait till spring to start again and do a 10K.. ive been running the 5ks for a while and found that all my lifting has helped me be a stronger runner.. I am still lifting not as many days in a row like before but with no running my 2014 goal is to go back to 6 days like before. Still to afraid to post photos of progress but I am at peace with my body and now know that the answer to change is to challenge it! Toms book "Burn the fat feed the muscle " is an awesome place to start to understand how to feed the body and how to challenge it with weights. wishing you all success on your journey.. I will be back on the boards again looking for support on my new journey..
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Old 01-05-2014, 07:52 AM   #77
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Thanks Sterlinggirl for the book idea, will check it out. I have seen workout books and the models for the exercises already look good, I need to see PROOF like before and after pix about what is possible. And honestly don't want to workout hours and hours a day, I mean who has the time for that in our busy lives anyway??

Does anyone else have a book or two for reference or website about weights/cardio/etc to improve look of legs (improve muscle definition and less cellulite maybe)? Also curious if there might be info out there especially for us over 50?
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Old 01-05-2014, 03:02 PM   #78
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Barb, have you seen Tracy Anderson's stuff? Inexpensive dvds for easy, fun, killa mat work. I hear great things about arms, bums, and legs. Bit like Callanetics. (Hi Kim!)
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Old 01-05-2014, 03:12 PM   #79
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Kim! I am just getting ready to start back in on the weights work ... didn't do it since last August (new job, felt maxed out). Excited to get started again though!
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Old 01-05-2014, 04:03 PM   #80
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I read through this whole thread and its quite awesome. I started lifting in mid-Sept and I am also interested in getting these last 10-ish pounds of fat off while trying to preserve muscle, lean out, etc.
I found a program that I absolutely love. Its from Team Beachbody, which, normally, I despise. The name of the program is "ChaLEAN Extreme" hosted by Chalene Johnson. Her premise is heavy weights, low reps, slow, slow, SLOW, push to fatigue in just 10-12 reps (for the first month). Hers is a 3 month program where each month you mix it up (which keeps me from getting bored) and within each month there are 3 workouts. So you only do each workout 4 times before you move on - no boredom!
She does it with free weights but they show you how to do it with resistance bands, which is what I use. And I am here to tell you that if you want fast toning results, this is the way to go. Holy cow - I've NEVER had tones arms/shoulders before. I started seeing results after 1 week and after 2 months the results were unbelievable. Some of the changes I need to get more padding off to see, but I've lost, for example, a full inch off my calves. And that was from leaning and toning with her program. Its completely amazing. I can't recommend it highly enough.
There are used ones on eBay if you don't want to buy the program new.
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Old 01-05-2014, 04:38 PM   #81
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Yennie, high weights, low reps, slowly and to failure is what I do when I'm allowed to exercise. I like it and find it effective too.


So here's my update, Barb. I got my latest hydrostatic BF test in November, and the results were okay, but not as good as I'd hoped. I lost about 1.5 lbs of LBM and 8.5 lbs of fat since the last test. All told, I lost over 60 lbs of fat and just about 2 lbs of LBM in 2013. I'm still not cleared to exercise, so I'm doing this all through diet.

My next test will be in February.
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Old 01-06-2014, 11:46 AM   #82
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I remember seeing you post before about this program, Jen, and was fascinated. I've been wanting to look into resistance bands - any recommendations? Do you have the ones with the handles and that can be attached to door frames, etc? I'm going to check out ebay!

Ntombi, I think you're doing great! I know your health issues restrict you somewhat, but to lose that little LBM while losing weight is really wonderful.

I've been saying I'm going to start doing Callanetics again. And I will. I want to do it with my mom. We've been trying to do weightbearing exercises for her, as she's been diagnosed with osteoporosis now. She was osteopenia, and then after her breast cancer and subsequent Femara Rx which causes bone loss, it's progressed and is of concern. I want her to be strong and mobile for as long as possible. We'll start out slow, but she really builds up strength pretty quickly for an 80 year old lady!
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Old 01-06-2014, 01:24 PM   #83
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Thanks for all the updates and recs. Joyjoy, will check out those programs. Ntombi, fantastic progress without exercise. Best to you come February!

I am also checking out weight lifting programs for over fifty year olds. I know I can get good results with that as I have done so in the past. But looking at my legs at this age…I am going to have to step it up a quite a bit!

My new mantra…52 is the new 32.
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Old 01-06-2014, 09:46 PM   #84
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The brand of resistance bands I use is called SPRI. They have a website but I think they're cheapest off the Big A site. I would not get them used on eBay because if they're cracked or old they could break and you could hurt yourself. They have all sorts of styles, including the door strap.
One of the gals in Chalene's video is 60. And she looks fabulous!!
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Old 01-07-2014, 08:42 AM   #85
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Thanks Jen. I actually did order some yesterday off ebay, but their NIB, so should be okay. They have the handles, door attachments, etc. Can't wait! Now I'm keeping a watch on some ChaLEAN Extreme DVDs.
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Old 01-07-2014, 07:11 PM   #86
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I've been reading through this thread and enjoying it! Thanks for all of your comments and suggestions. I really want and need to start a weight-training program. I have all the equipment necessary at work, but just need the motivation. If not that, at-home videos would do it. I also have a weight bench and dumbbells. No excuses I can think of at the moment.
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Old 03-17-2014, 07:47 PM   #87
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I saw a summary of an interesting study that I thought would be good to add to this thread. This is from a website that I probably can't link to, but the title of the article is "How to Maintain Weight Loss and Beat Weight Loss Resistance."

Quote:
A study published in the Journal of the American College of Nutrition in April 1999 showed this effect. This study looked at a group of obese individuals who were put on a very low calorie diet and assigned to one of two exercise regimes. One group did aerobic exercise (walking, biking, or jogging four times per week) while the second group did resistance training three times per week and no aerobic exercise.

At the end of the twelve-week study both groups lost weight, but the difference in the amount of muscle vs. fat loss was telling. The aerobic group lost 37 pounds over the course of the study. Ten of those pounds came from muscle. In contrast, the resistance-training group lost 32 pounds. None of the weight they lost came from muscle. When the resting metabolic rate of each group was calculated, the aerobic group was shown to be burning 210 fewer calories per day. The resistance-training group avoided this metabolic decline and instead was burning 63 more calories per day.
Wow! I wonder what happens if you do weight training AND cardio?

Last edited by calichris; 03-17-2014 at 07:50 PM..
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