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Old 07-25-2013, 05:03 PM   #91
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I guess I should admit that my bone scan (feet) several years ago indicated that I am peri-osteoperosis. My mother has it and has broken her hips more than once. However, she is in good health and 90 yo. Can't argue with that!
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Old 01-28-2014, 11:53 PM   #92
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I'm importing some data from Christina and Carol's body fat assessment thread. I didn't want to hijack theirs with an extensive comment but I'm intrigued by the range of LBM that we're reporting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by calichris View Post
I found out that at 201 lbs and 5 foot 3 inches, my lean body mass is 62.75% and weighs 126.6 pounds. My body fat percentage is 37.2% and weighs 75 pounds..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ntombi View Post
My LBM is 153 pounds

Quote:
Originally Posted by Planelman View Post
...when I started lifting weights at 258 lbs my LBM was 171.2 but my muscle mass by itself was 78.3. Now at 193.4 my LBM is 161.6 and my muscle mass is 76.5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yennie View Post
This test is the coolest thing ever.

My post on my body fat testing experience

[Yennie's LBM is 112.5lbs]
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoCarbGal View Post
I found out that at 179 lbs (on his scale - mine said 176.5 post UD this morning in the same clothes) and 5 foot 4 inches, my lean body mass is 60.2% and weighs 107.9 pounds. My body fat percentage is 39.8% and weighs 71.1 pounds.
I'm intrigued by the diversity in LBM that we're reporting.
SlowSure LBM <<77lbs
LCG LBM 107.9lbs
Yennie LBM 112.6lbs
Calichris LBM 126.6lbs
Ntombi LBM 153lbs
Planelman LBM 161.6lbs with a Muscle Mass about the same as my LBM 76.5lbs

The women have LBM of 30-76lbs more than mine. Mike's LBM is interesting and not a decent comparison point for me.

Most of the women are upwardly revising goal weights, based on their LBM. However, my notional target goals (to reduce the BF% to acceptable or even 'obese' levels) are so unrealistically low that I couldn't begin to contemplate them.

I feel that I should at least attempt to move out of the 'morbid obesity' range and into as low in the 'obese' range as I can manage (for women, the American Society of Bariatric Physicians criteria (DXA percent body fat: ≥30% = obesity).

Reducing body fat to an 'acceptable' range would leave me underweight for my present height and considerably underweight by my previous height (before femur fracture). To get to 30% BF (still obese), I'd need to weigh <107lbs (BMI 18).

Quote:
Originally Posted by calichris View Post
If anyone's interested, this web site - if you know your body fat percentage - will estimate your goal for a desired body fat percentage with both "lossy" (assuming you will lose 5-10% LBM) and lossless (your goal if you did not lose lean body mass) figures (mine are 156 and 164, respectively).
Ideal Weight and Calorie Calculator.
Using the calculator that Christina links, to be 20% BF, I'd have to weigh 84-87lbs (BMI <14), assuming, again, negligible loss of LBM.

I currently weigh 122lbs. I'd be surprised if I could move much below 120lbs (however long that would take). And, I'd have to be very careful not to lose more LBM as I can't spare it (easier said than done).

I'm fine with my current shape and weight range. The thing that keeps nagging at me, and will until I get a DXA scan to check my LBM and body fat (to confirm or be at odds with the Bod Pod), is the morbid obesity (by body fat level, assessment of 42%). If I genuinely do have that much visceral body fat (tho' I can't see where it is, given my waist measurement is consistently <26 inches) then I need to reduce it. Yet, I have such scant muscle mass (allegedly) that if I lost any more, I'd be in danger of triggering the metabolic problems that I currently don't have.
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Sept 2014 A recent DXA scan reported very low muscle mass (sarcopenia) so I'm still thinking about how to cope with that. I have some joint surgery to schedule. I may miss questions that people ask me or personals. Apologies if I do, it's not intentional.

Last edited by SlowSure; 01-28-2014 at 11:56 PM..
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Old 01-29-2014, 05:45 AM   #93
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SS, this is really interesting and distressing at the same time. I really hope you can get the DXA at some point and it indicates some major issue with the other test. You appear slim and beautiful, you're active, you pay close attention to nutrition, etc. I can't imagine that you're really that low in LBM.

I have not had any testing done, but last time I did my measurements and tried to figure out BF% and LBM from that (I know it's not accurate, but it's the closest I could come up with here), I was at about 24% BF, 21.6 BMI, and 106 lbs LBM (IIRC). At 5'9", my LBM should be higher than that given what others are reporting. That causes me to worry that I am in the same category with you, low body weight, but high body fat.

I know I have hardly any fat left on my arms and legs, and a little on my waist (maybe--may just be skin). If I'm being objective, I can't see where I could lose any more either without being grossly underweight.

When I was a teen, I WAS quite underweight (106 lbs at 5'10" at the time). I wonder, were you ever underweight? Could that be playing into how things are working out now? Just my own ramblings, and feel free to ignore if that's intrusive.

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Old 10-02-2014, 12:33 AM   #94
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I'm surprised that I didn't update this thread with the results of my March 2014 Dxa scan so I'll do that at some point.

I decided to work towards this range after the Dxa scan in March (when I was 117lbs) reported that I'm sarcopenic (low muscle mass). The Dxa reported slightly more LBM than the BodPod which was helpful but it also directly measured the amount of muscle in my arms and legs and it would be low for someone in her 80s, never mind someone of my age and activity level.

Sarcopenia is usually accompanied by metabolic dysregulation and diseases associated both the level of body fat and the lack of skeletal muscle to act as glycogen stores and participate in the blood sugar management (so to speak).

Looking at my results, I decided that the best way to reduce the metabolic risks was to reduce my body fat level as much as feasible. I selected the 105-110lbs range as the most plausible target that I might achieve and maintain.

I thought it might take a couple of years to get here but, with the support of the JBs, it turns out it was a bit more straightforward as I moved into the 110lb range some months ago, and, today, saw 105lbs for the first time.

As ever, maintaining is its own challenge, and I have some additional challenges in the upcoming surgery on my knees and shoulders (yet to be booked).

However, despite the reservations about my LBM and that I can't confirm that I've mostly lost body fat until my next scan (2015), I'm in the range where my body fat is (theoretically) 23-25% from my baseline of 42% in June 2012.

It would not have been possible without the support of my JBs.

Thank you.
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Old 10-02-2014, 12:34 AM   #95
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I'm surprised that I didn't update this thread with the results of my March 2014 Dxa scan so I'll do that at some point.

I decided to reduce my body fat level in earnest after the Dxa scan in March (when I was 117lbs) reported that I'm sarcopenic (low muscle mass). The Dxa reported slightly more LBM than the BodPod which was helpful but it also directly measured the amount of muscle in my arms and legs and it would be low for someone in her 80s, never mind someone of my age and activity level.

Sarcopenia is usually accompanied by metabolic dysregulation and diseases associated both the level of body fat and the lack of skeletal muscle to act as glycogen stores and participate in the blood sugar management (so to speak).

Looking at my results, I decided that the best way to reduce the metabolic risks was to reduce my body fat level as much as feasible. I selected the 105-110lbs range as the most plausible target that I might achieve and maintain.

I thought it might take a couple of years to get here but, with the support of the JBs, it turns out it was a bit more straightforward as I moved into the 110lb range some months ago, and, today, saw 105lbs for the first time.

As ever, maintaining is its own challenge, and I have some additional challenges in the upcoming surgery on my knees and shoulders (yet to be booked).

However, despite the reservations about my LBM and that I can't confirm that I've mostly lost body fat until my next scan (2015), I'm in the range where my body fat is (theoretically) 23-25% from my baseline of 42% in June 2012.

It would not have been possible without the support of my JBs.

Thank you.
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Old 10-02-2014, 05:51 AM   #96
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You are tiny, tiny, tiny! All the best thoughts coming your way for your upcoming surgeries and for confirmation through your next Dxa that your BF% is in the range you worked so hard to get it.
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Old 10-02-2014, 06:27 AM   #97
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However, despite the reservations about my LBM and that I can't confirm that I've mostly lost body fat until my next scan (2015), I'm in the range where my body fat is (theoretically) 23-25% from my baseline of 42% in June 2012.


WOW. When you set your mind to something, slow, you DO IT! Body fat at 23-25% & 105#. WOWOWOW. Beyond impressive. It's incredible the way you've taken uncomfortable and scary information and completely turned it around in your favor. Go you!!! XO

Thank you for being so positive, informative, and supportive here. Lots of love to you girl! CONGRATS!!!!
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Old 10-02-2014, 06:48 AM   #98
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Thank you both - I'm now, of course, seeing all of the bad edits and errors in the above

My BodPod analysis was June 2013 and assessed my body fat level at 42%.

It's amazing what you can plan when you're using more appropriate data that is dialled into your reality rather than general guidelines that approximate to your demographic and make a mass of assumptions. Related to which: JUDDD and Your Life Have Their Own Schedule
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Old 10-02-2014, 07:12 AM   #99
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Wow Slow, that's an amazing accomplishment. In just a year you cut your body fat in half. Amazing! Question you may not be able to answer but from having lost weight where you were losing muscle mass rather than fat, and now having lost fat rather than (much) muscle mass, did you feel a difference?
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Old 10-02-2014, 07:13 AM   #100
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SlowSure, you're a shining star, an inspiration.

You're so generous with your support of the JBs too.

You deserve every success.
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Old 10-02-2014, 08:39 AM   #101
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I've been in awe of you, watching your weight inch downward. You are amazing! I will be so interested to hear what your new DXA numbers will be. It's a shame you can't have that redone before your upcoming surgeries to see where you stand right now, before all the body trauma involved there. You're an inspiration Slow, and thank you for being here and sharing your experiences and supporting all of us!
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Old 10-03-2014, 04:47 AM   #102
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! Question you may not be able to answer but from having lost weight where you were losing muscle mass rather than fat, and now having lost fat rather than (much) muscle mass, did you feel a difference?
I can't answer that question because I don't think it's accurate. I've no idea when I started to lose the muscle mass - it might have been while I was sedentary and gaining weight and then continued when I started weight loss.
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Old 10-03-2014, 10:41 AM   #103
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Impressive! Do you feel healthier/better at the current weight or does it feel hard to maintain or too slim or anything?
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Old 10-03-2014, 12:48 PM   #104
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Well done Slow, you have done so amazingly while having to cope with so much. Proud of you my friend.
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Old 10-04-2014, 01:37 AM   #105
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I will be so interested to hear what your new DXA numbers will be. It's a shame you can't have that redone before your upcoming surgeries to see where you stand right now, before all the body trauma involved there
Bless you! I can't pretend that I'm not tempted to have another Dxa before the next schedule one but I play the risk percentages on these things and I've got a lot of necessary imaging in my future and I need to be mindful of my cumulative radiation exposure even tho' the amount involved in a Dxa is tiny.

Besides which, what would I do with the results, either way? If I look like I'm managing to maintain my LBM/skeletal muscle, well - realistically, it's only 6 months after my last scan and I'm about to have surgeries. If I'm not - I'm already doing what I can and, in a way, would rather not give myself conniptions about what's likely to happen during rehab. I'm already designing a good rehab programme, it won't be lack of desire to rehab well that will hold me back if I do have reverses.
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Old 10-04-2014, 01:42 AM   #106
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Do you feel healthier/better at the current weight or does it feel hard to maintain or too slim or anything?
Before I answer that - is that a random question or is it something that would influence an attitude/behaviour for you?

No, I don't feel different (possibly because I still have a non-weight related need for some surgical repairs to my joints so I still have the debilitating pain from that plus the weakness/tiredness that's related to the sarcopenia). No, to the rest - but bear in mind that I've only been in this 105-110lbs range for 12 weeks or so.
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Old 10-04-2014, 04:01 AM   #107
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Last year I ached for you when the sarcopenia was DXd. It is fascinating watching the careful, logical way you approached dealing with, and hopefully subduing, the condition.

Fingers, arms, toes, legs, and eyes all crossed in hopes the surgeries go very well and, subsequently, the muscle loss stabilizes or improves.
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Old 10-04-2014, 07:14 AM   #108
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Before I answer that - is that a random question or is it something that would influence an attitude/behaviour for you?

No, I don't feel different (possibly because I still have a non-weight related need for some surgical repairs to my joints so I still have the debilitating pain from that plus the weakness/tiredness that's related to the sarcopenia). No, to the rest - but bear in mind that I've only been in this 105-110lbs range for 12 weeks or so.
Does your doctor have any concern with the lower weight. I'm 5'2"- 5'1" and in the past my doctor would get nervous when I dropped below 103lb, but if I recall you are taller than me, so I would think a doctor might have concerns at 105lb. However if your MD has the info from the DXA maybe not
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Old 10-04-2014, 08:52 AM   #109
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Before I answer that - is that a random question or is it something that would influence an attitude/behaviour for you?

No, I don't feel different (possibly because I still have a non-weight related need for some surgical repairs to my joints so I still have the debilitating pain from that plus the weakness/tiredness that's related to the sarcopenia). No, to the rest - but bear in mind that I've only been in this 105-110lbs range for 12 weeks or so.
I asked because I'm within 10 lbs. of "normal BMI" (144lbs), which is usually my goal weight when I diet down, or 10 lbs. below that. But my body fat % is still 35-40% at that weight. I wonder if I should be aiming for a healthy body fat percent instead. But I too would have to be very low BMI. I guess I can worry about it later.

Thanks!
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Old 10-04-2014, 11:24 AM   #110
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Does your doctor have any concern with the lower weight...However if your MD has the info from the DXA maybe not
My GP is a SE Asian male who holds no brief for BMI as a useful indicator of anything. He underwent a sea change on BMI after developing type II diabetes despite his within bounds BMI - after which he then learned that there are now different BMI standards for different demographics, particularly SE Asians. BMI is used because it's easily assessed and is a cheap metric for Public Health that is increasingly not particularly helpful for individuals.

It took a while for my GP to understand the Dxa report but after some discussion, he agrees with my approach to reducing the body fat level to the level that minimises my enhanced risk of metabolic diseases.

I'm at the weight where <1 lb is the difference between a BMI of 18.55 and 'underweight' (if you're in a country where 18.5 is the dividing line).

Overall, as I think I've said elsewhere, I'd happily weigh 126lbs if that extra 20lbs were LBM. As things stand tho', when I was approximately that weight at the time of my first body composition assessment, I was 42% body fat.

I don't believe that any individual body metric is a reliable, context-free proxy for our health, but, from what is known about the endocrine disruptions of fat tissue, I can only think that I'm better off reducing it than coping with it. However, the additional context for my action is that I have less skeletal muscle to participate in metabolic/plasma regulation so even my current body fat level is probably/theoretically a little too high for optimal risk management.

Last edited by SlowSure; 10-04-2014 at 11:28 AM..
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Old 10-04-2014, 05:27 PM   #111
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Thanks for sharing your journey and thought process. It is very interesting and I hope to see the results of the next scan. In the mean time, wishing you the best possible outcome from your upcoming surgeries and quick recovery.
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Old 10-04-2014, 10:34 PM   #112
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Are you following a lower carb diet because of the migraines. I know you check your macros, but not sure what they are now.
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Old 10-05-2014, 12:59 AM   #113
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Are you following a lower carb diet because of the migraines. I know you check your macros, but not sure what they are now.
My macros vary with my activity level for a day. The theory for both of the following is an account of a day when I eat for energy balance (TDEE - Total Daily Energy Expenditure).

On a sedentary day, I'm in the ballpark of <30g carbs, 75g protein, remainder as fat (approx. 65g, because my sedentary TDEE is approx. 1000kcals). Roughly, 10%, 30%, 60% of my kcals levels: I chose the protein level of 1.5g of protein per kg of body weight for muscle preservation.

On an active day (1275kcals), I allow myself up to 50g-60g of carbs, protein remains the same at 75g, the remainder is fat (approx. 85g): the macros of that are roughly the same with a slight relative dip in protein while increasing the others.

What happens IRL is that I follow a 4:3 DD pattern. On DDs, my food intake is somewhere 350-600kcals: I keep the protein and I don't fret about the intake of the others because I'm eating a sufficiently low level of kcals on that day that I won't have any food associated rannygazoo to contribute to a headache.

On UDs the macros are pretty much the same, but altho' that's an accurate description on my intake on sedentary days, on a more active day, I might slip in a little extra cheese or similar to take my kcals to approx. 1450.

If I had the time before the surgery's booked, I would start reverse dieting* again: where you gradually add in small increases to your food intake (keeping the above macros correct) and then keep pushing it up gradually so that your body doesn't shriek, until you find a level where you've both increased your intake and you don't increase your body fat/weight when you do it.

*NB: reverse dieting is what I did following goal weight the first time. I stabilised for 6 months, gradually increasing my food intake. I think this probably helped me to drop the remaining body fat this year, as I was starting from a higher baseline.

I'd like to reverse diet my way up to a more typical TDEE food intake as I'm aware that at my current levels, it's a conscious effort to ensure the spread of nutrients in which I'm interested.
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Old 10-05-2014, 04:31 PM   #114
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Thank you for the detailed reply SS. I hope your surgeries do not set you back too badly, but do know they will be a major challenge for you.
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