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Old 07-17-2013, 11:55 PM   #1
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DD Struggles

I need help! I am struggling very badly with DD's at the moment and finding my return to JUDDD much harder than I had anticipated, I am struggling both on the hungry side and mentally and feel I am only moments away from pressing my "stuff it" button and going off track entirely on a DD, although I haven't done it.......yet!

I was delighted with my week 1 losses and it confirms everything I need to know about IF, it's the best way for me to lose weight and it fits pretty well with my lifestyle, so I am ignoring the voice in my head thats saying "hey this diet isn't for you" because I think it's to do with stress outside of dieting (namely the current living situation in Cairo), actually this is exactly how I felt when I was under super stress before I moved here and sorting out everything involved in moving country and sitting exams at the same time.

Has anyone else experienced difficulties with DD's when in other stressful situations and how did/do you cope with it as it seems to nearly tip me off plan.
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Old 07-18-2013, 02:01 AM   #2
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I have to say I haven't had this problem, but a lot of people do.

Allow yourself to eat some higher DDs. Have a look at the different percentages of weight loss , you don't have to choose 20%. Yes, you will lose a little more slowly but sticking with it is far more important than quick fixes.

Be kind to yourself and be proud of your ability to eat less on alternate days. Many of our successful JUDDERS in the past ate 600, 700 or even more on their DDs, and lost.

Remember, this isn't a race. Time is on your side. The important thing is to find a level that suits YOU. We are not all made the same and there are no medals for the lowest DD.
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Old 07-18-2013, 02:11 AM   #3
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Sorry to hear you're struggling Lanarkwitch. I think you've pinpointed the cause though. You might find that the stress in your environment makes it difficult to JUDDD.


O'Donnell covers it at length in his ebook. Here are some excerpts:
“Try and remember to keep the “I” in “IF” still. Remember the “hormesis” curve from early on? It showed that small stressors provide a positive feedback response from the body, but excessive/chronic will take it in the opposite direction.

….. It is so important I wanted to give it a chapter on it's own just so you pay attention! You will see a recurring theme (and again later), but it is important to remember that IF is a “stress” on your body. One that can be handled only if you are not putting things already out of whack (as there has to be time for recovery too).

….. Since IF increases adrenaline response/sensitivity of your nervous system, one may also experience more anxiety, depression or other emotional responses. If you think you also already have adrenal/thyroid issues (since adrenaline is made by the adrenals and impacts thyroid function), then you will also want to take caution.

*I've seen where the metabolic stress from chronic low carb added in with IF can be an overload (especially when using more glycogen depletion training). This is why many do plateau while using low carb + IF, and it is probably not a good idea without any days off IF/low-carb to signal different metabolic changes (namely with more calories and carbs). Remember, chronic stress is not the goal.”

However, it's clear that any other kind of dieting would be even more difficult and could be a risk to your health because intermittent small stress is good – hence JUDDD – but chronic big stress is dangerous.

It's very important to nourish your body properly when it's in a chronic stressful situation. You need lots of real, healthy food and maybe a good vitamin and mineral supplement to help you ride through this. Chamomile tea could be a godsend too.

I agree with Cindy and can only suggest that you try to relax a bit on the weight loss for now. Frustrating I know – but I didn't say give up on it! I'm sure you could raise your DD allowance till things settle down.
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Old 07-18-2013, 03:08 AM   #4
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Thank you both for the replies, I feel a bit better about it, I felt like this before when things were going mad and I didn't properly listen to my body and suspect this is how I managed to plough all the lbs on in a very short space of time, on an UD I have been trying as best I can to stick with the healthy eating principles of Slimming World, for anyone that doesn't know the plan it's basically " decide what you will have with your vegetables, either carbs or protein", I eat a largely veggie diet 80% of the time and I have zoomed in on my B vitamins as I was suffering from what appears to by a lot of the symptoms of lacking them, got out in the sun a little to get my vitamin D sorted (I can always tell as I get drastic hair fall when it's not right) and although I avoid fruit largely I have been having a little citrus but lately I am stressing over UD's as well, perhaps I need to concentrate more on relaxation rather than focusing on what I am not getting right diet wise, it most certainly leads to "diet fail" mentality for me

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Old 07-18-2013, 03:15 AM   #5
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I agree with the impact of stress and what is happening in your life in the round - and there are some posts that touch on that in: Exercise calorie deficit: can it put you in "starvation mode"?
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Old 07-18-2013, 03:25 AM   #6
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I agree with Kissa that you may want to consider increasing your DD to 30 or 35 percent for a little while. I know everyone says hunger isn't an emergency and you can eat tomorrow, but you know your body better than anyone. Listen to what it's telling you.

I wish you luck and I hope the stressors in your life start to dwindle a bit soon.
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Old 07-18-2013, 03:51 AM   #7
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I have nothing to add to the great advice from those above... but hugs. Your living conditions sound stressful indeed. Just know others are thinking of you and wishing you well.
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Old 07-18-2013, 04:01 AM   #8
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In the beginning if I didn't stay busy and keep my mind occupied I focused too much on what I was/was not eating. It helped so much to stay occupied with anything whether it was work, housecleaning, exercise, chores- whatever. If it is true hunger and nourishment that you need raise your DDs a bit to see if that helps.
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Old 07-18-2013, 04:10 AM   #9
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I'm the same way now Carly. Yesterday being a DD, I hit my limit after dinner, but I still found myself looking through cabinets and the fridge. I actually stopped, shut the door and asked myself, "Are you really hungry, or are you bored? Or is it just habit to snack?" I realized I wasn't hungry, I was just searching to graze and busied myself with some housework and interwebz.
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Old 07-18-2013, 06:08 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanarkwitch View Post
Thank you both for the replies, I feel a bit better about it, I felt like this before when things were going mad and I didn't properly listen to my body and suspect this is how I managed to plough all the lbs on in a very short space of time, on an UD I have been trying as best I can to stick with the healthy eating principles of Slimming World, for anyone that doesn't know the plan it's basically " decide what you will have with your vegetables, either carbs or protein", I eat a largely veggie diet 80% of the time and I have zoomed in on my B vitamins as I was suffering from what appears to by a lot of the symptoms of lacking them, got out in the sun a little to get my vitamin D sorted (I can always tell as I get drastic hair fall when it's not right) and although I avoid fruit largely I have been having a little citrus but lately I am stressing over UD's as well, perhaps I need to concentrate more on relaxation rather than focusing on what I am not getting right diet wise, it most certainly leads to "diet fail" mentality for me
I have struggled quite a bit with DDs throughout my JUDDD journey. I'd say it took a good 3-4 months before I felt like I could do it with no problem. I still eat more than most of the JUDDDers on DDs, and it's rare that I eat under 400 cals. I am so glad I stuck with it though, and I think you will be too. Go ahead and eat 700-800 cals, heck try the plan you mentioned in another thread: 700/1700.

I noticed that you say you eat a vegetable diet, primarily. That could definitely be a problem, in that it would be difficult to get to your UD calories, AND you wouldn't have much on your stomach the following day to help with the very low calorie DD. Maybe you could incorporate more beans, tofu or other high protein vegetables. Good luck, and yes, lots of us have had our struggles!
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Old 07-18-2013, 07:06 AM   #11
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I too have good DD days and bad DD days. I notice an increase in agitation and food thoughts on DDs just before a drop in the scale--my body is urging me to replace lost nutrients. I find this pattern then extends to UDs where I tend to overeat following a "bad" DD.

Noticing this pattern has helped me, as I now know I have to respond to the urge to eat on a DD, but not destructively--e.g., adding extra protein and a few more calories--it also helps because I can then predict that the following UD will be more difficult to rein in. Even though I too am more veggie than not, when I have a bad DD, I push the protein and a wee bit of fat (a tsp of MCT oil in my tea) in order to settle my system down. On the following UD, I try and start the day with some fat with no carbs or protein (MCT oil in my tea), which gives me more control over my UD. Of course distraction and busyness helps as well
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Old 07-18-2013, 09:42 AM   #12
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Emma,

I agree with the others that it is perfectly fine to have a higher percentage of calories in the weight loss range on your DDs. A few of us have even seemed to lose faster this way, which makes the book Flossyliz quoted make a lot of sense to me (I have been that person he's talking about!).

I became more aware on JUDDD of true physical hunger, and also the times when I wanted to eat for other reasons, usually stress. There just aren't enough calories on DDs for stress eating, so it was actually a gift that I had to find other ways to handle stress. (This may be more of a challenge for the kinds of stress you are experiencing, though!)

Have you thought of pterostilbene? It's a supplement that may help ... there's a thread about it if you haven't seen it.
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Old 07-18-2013, 09:53 AM   #13
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I am certainly no expert, Lanark, and pretty new to JUDDD, but I have struggled with DDs, and an uncooperative scale, too. I have so far managed to keep the calories below 400 on DDs by reminding myself that hunger is a natural, healthy state and the hunger I am feeling is a sign that good things are happening in my body, like sore muscles after a good workout. (And other forms of positive self talk like that). And if the talking isn't working, I have my go tos -- unsweetened almond milk latte (15 cals); 1 cup watermelon cubes, 50 cals; diet Jello, 5 cals; cup of shredded cabbage with vinegar, 15 cals; diet yogurt 40 cals, etc. I keep these low cal foods in the house. (I also drink diet pop. Now, I do not think artificial sweeteners are healthy, and ordinarily would prefer actual sugar over that stuff, but I am using them now for weight loss.)

We have all been there, heck, many of us still are, so big hugs to you. I have also felt like throwing in the towel and kind souls in this forum offered great advice -- I think it was Flutter who said everyone has felt their metabolism was messed up and was just too hopeless for this diet, but when you stick with it, things eventually get humming along as they should be. I think if you can give it just a few more weeks, your body will get it sorted and things will be rolling along!
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Old 07-18-2013, 10:03 AM   #14
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Emma, you've gotten lots of good feedback. Raising your DD calories is a great idea. I started losing again when I took a *maintenance break* a few months ago, and it provided a much needed mental break. I've actually been toying with doing that again recently.

Your stresses must be just huge right now, and that's never the best atmosphere for controlling eating.

One of the tricks I use on myself is this. I rarely am hungry early in the day. I usually just have coffee/hwc for breakfast, and then maybe eat a late lunch. By then, I feel like I've already made an investment of restricting myself of xx hours. Like if it's 1:00pm and I'm getting the urge to eat more than I should, I tell myself I've already invested 7 hours in this DD, and I don't want to throw that away. More likely is when I get cravings in the late afternoon or evening. Then it's even easier to say "Carol, you've invested 14 hours into this day and if you give in now, you'll have *suffered* those 14 hours for nothing. You can make it through another few hours, go to sleep, and in the morning be rewarded with food." It works for me more times than not.

Whatever you do, don't just throw it all in. Try to find adjustments that make it livable. And coming here for support and help is always a big boost. We're here, and ready to prop you up!
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Old 07-18-2013, 10:37 AM   #15
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Great responses here, and I love Carol's "internal challenge" about reminding herself how many hours she's invested already. My toughest time tends to be at night, but reminding myself how much I've already put into this DD could be a great help.

Emma, focusing on relaxation sounds very smart, and necessary. Hang in there.
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Old 07-18-2013, 11:44 AM   #16
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All great advice!!! Eat more on your DD and work down if you want. Or that 700/1700 is looking tempting to me :wink: .

Some DDs are just easier than others. I sail through some, then on others I want to gnaw on my desk or nibble the potted ivy!

I forgot who posted this idea, but I put it in the notes on my iPhone and refer to that. Go to the JUDDD calculator and right down all your loss calories (20%, 25%, 30%, and 35%). UD cals stay the same. You'll see that even if you have a higher DD, you're still JUDDD'ing. I try to stick to 500 calories on a DD, but don't fret if I go a little above because it's still JUDDD.

Hang in there!!
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Old 07-18-2013, 03:41 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macci View Post
I am certainly no expert, Lanark, and pretty new to JUDDD, but I have struggled with DDs, and an uncooperative scale, too. I have so far managed to keep the calories below 400 on DDs by reminding myself that hunger is a natural, healthy state and hunger I am feeling is a sign that good things are happening in my body, like sore muscles after a good workout. (And other forms of positive self talk like that). And if the talking isn't working, I have my go tos -- unsweetened almond milk latte (15 cals); 1 cup watermelon cubes, 50 cals; diet Jello, 5 cals; cup of shredded cabbage with vinegar, 15 cals; diet yogurt 40 cals, etc. I keep these low cal foods in the house. (I also drink diet pop. Now, I do not think artificial sweeteners are healthy, and ordinarily would prefer actual sugar over that stuff, but I am using them now for weight loss.)

We have all been there, heck, many of us still are, so big hugs to you. I have also felt like throwing in the towel and kind souls in this forum offered great advice -- I think it was Flutter who said everyone has felt their metabolism was messed up and was just too hopeless for this diet, but when you stick with it, things eventually get humming along as they should be. I think if you can give it just a few more weeks, your body will get it sorted and things will be rolling along!
I love this quote. So very true and so worth remembering. Thanks Macci
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Old 07-18-2013, 05:00 PM   #18
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Lovely responses from the JDs.
If you're stressed, vitamin C is an essential goto. Take as many grams per day as necessary, to "bowel tolerance".
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Old 07-18-2013, 05:21 PM   #19
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Hi Emma! I agree with everyone else. If you're not feeling great it's time to let up a little on yourself until your head is back in the game. It's better to up your DD's for a while than go off the deep end and set yourself back completely. Have you tried mediation, massage and/or deep breathing to help control your stress? If stress is the root cause of your troubles it's best to focus on regulating that and the rest will follow.
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Old 07-18-2013, 08:28 PM   #20
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Try to think, "it's a marathon, not a sprint". I need to take that same advice.
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Old 07-18-2013, 09:08 PM   #21
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Wow great threads on the board right now!!!

So many super-duper responses I wish I could comment on them all. Just know I heart each and every one of you!!!

There are some things that help me on difficult DDs.

1. Deep breathing. (Ouis just taught me this technique is actually called Four-Square Breathing). And it really works on everything from anxiety to cravings! It helps oxygenate your body, get rid of excess CO2, and also helps release endorphins that calm you and help you center and focus. I like to imagine shrugging off a huge weight from my head down through my shoulders, trunk, legs, and feet as I exhale and hold the exhale. It feels so amazingly free-ing. Like you're lighter afterwards.

2. The other thing that helps is knowing that REPAIR is happenin all over the hizzouse with every hunger pang I feel. And wooot, we love's some repair round here!

3. The last thing to know is that hunger, left unfed dies a whimpering fate if left unfed. It peaks in 10-20 minute intervals. And each time you don't feed it, you make bigger and stronger new neural pathways (ways of processing stimuli).

4. The last thing to know is hunger is a vicious cycle if you stoke the fire with the wrong fuel for your body. And breaking the cycle (i.e The early days of JUDDD or coming back from an off-plan vaca, or break, etc...)

5. Try eating lower carb on your UDs in the early days. I'm not talking "strict". I'm talking about eating fewer high glycemic carbs but really pound down the veggie carbs. And up the fat a bit too. Eat a half an avocado with your meal.

6. And finally, know you can eat anything you want tomorrow. It's only a few hours away.

And as Carol said, I too defer eating until late in the day. The trade off for have a long fasting repair window is knowing that when dinner hits, I can eat a reasonably normal sized meal and that from dinner time onward (as long as I don't munch after dinner), I'm in my UD eating window!

XOXO!
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Old 07-19-2013, 07:38 AM   #22
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I wish you luck with your DD's. I am the opposite so cannot help. I have no problem with DD's it is the UD"s that get away from me way too often. BUT even then JUDDD works so hang in there and the losses will come.
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Old 07-21-2013, 03:34 AM   #23
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Thank you all for a very insightful bucket load of advice. The realisation that the stress is a factor rather than "I just can't do this" seems to be half the battle, I was starting to associate tough DD's with the all too familiar feeling of "day 1" dieting ( you know the diets that never get past day 1!" I have read again over the weekend a few of my IF books and watched for the 10th time the MM documentary, I consider myself to be fairly and squarely reminded of all the benefits of IF, not just the weight loss side it's good to refocus on that. I have decided to go up to 600 cals on my DD for the rest of this week, as I am going on vacation for a few weeks on Thursday but for at least week 1 of that I will be in my own home and fully in control of the menu so no need to come off rotation. For DD's I will now be using 3x VLCD packs, it takes the stress out of planning food and also it's nutritionally complete for DD's which I think is hugely important for me right now. I will get there just one DD at a time and cross fingers the gentler approach to things will ease me back into a better head space with it all.
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Old 07-21-2013, 04:03 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanarkwitch View Post
Thank you all for a very insightful bucket load of advice. The realisation that the stress is a factor rather than "I just can't do this" seems to be half the battle, I was starting to associate tough DD's with the all too familiar feeling of "day 1" dieting ( you know the diets that never get past day 1!" I have read again over the weekend a few of my IF books and watched for the 10th time the MM documentary, I consider myself to be fairly and squarely reminded of all the benefits of IF, not just the weight loss side it's good to refocus on that. I have decided to go up to 600 cals on my DD for the rest of this week, as I am going on vacation for a few weeks on Thursday but for at least week 1 of that I will be in my own home and fully in control of the menu so no need to come off rotation. For DD's I will now be using 3x VLCD packs, it takes the stress out of planning food and also it's nutritionally complete for DD's which I think is hugely important for me right now. I will get there just one DD at a time and cross fingers the gentler approach to things will ease me back into a better head space with it all.
This sounds like a great plan! Be sure and keep us updated on how you are doing.



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Old 07-21-2013, 07:13 PM   #25
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I think sometimes we try to hard to get things going to fast . We want the magic pill for an immediate fix to the problem, forgetting that it is not realistic to think it will happen so fast. We didn't put it on fast and it will take longer to lose. I am a work in progress and the Lord isn't done with me so why should I be in a hurry. I need to develop better habits. And this is the way
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Old 07-22-2013, 11:44 AM   #26
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Good plan Emma and I'm sure the vacation will help things to settle down.
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Old 07-22-2013, 12:25 PM   #27
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Great ideas. DDs are difficult for me too. That quote about the stress response toIF & LC is interesting. Will want to think about that.
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Old 07-22-2013, 01:56 PM   #28
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Had a good DD on Sunday, bit of a change in rotations this week as I am travelling on Thursday through the night, another DD tomorrow, fingers crossed I feel as well as I did on Sunday, things seem to be slowly falling into place, I am not weighing until Thursday morning so hoping for the best!
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