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Old 07-04-2013, 01:47 AM   #1
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How Fasting Affects Women With Bulimia

I found this fascinating article. Hope it's an ok link. I seem to find so many that aren't allowed on here for one reason or another. If it doesn't come through, Google "How fasting affects women with bulimia differently from healthy women". That's the name of the article.

Binge eating and Bulimia: The latest psychological research on eating disorders - Home - How fasting affects women with bulimia differently from healthy*women
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Old 07-04-2013, 02:50 AM   #2
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Interesting article...but I'd hardly call skipping dinner a true study on the effects of fasting!
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Old 07-04-2013, 04:01 AM   #3
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I agree! This is the most 'flawed' study in terms of methodology that I've ever seen.

Most of the research I've seen on bulimics don't refer to fasting itself but to dietary 'restriction' of any kind as a stimulus to binge. Most developed the ED from ordinary 'dieting.' Any eating plan that's perceived as restrictive can set off a bulimic.

Moreover, almost all bulimics who have written about their affliction will mention that they never would binge in public! So the fact that both groups of women at similarly at breakfast is irrelevant.
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Old 07-04-2013, 04:46 AM   #4
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I thought it was interesting the effect it had on the mood of the bulimic women compared with the healthy women.
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Old 07-04-2013, 05:12 AM   #5
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Yes, very interesting. And confirms what I already knew... I am definitely NOT bulimic (study says "normal"--go figure!) because I get really CRANKY around that 20 hour mark!
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Old 07-04-2013, 09:48 AM   #6
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I found this interesting, as i suffered from bulimia. My mother also suffered for 17 years, where as i sought help earlier thanks to her encouragement but it was roughly 8 years.

I wont say im "cured" now, as mentally i never will be cured and will always have the same frame of mind. Iv managed to not be bulimic from the time i fell pregnant - my whole mind frame changed, and i started to care for more body for the sake of my baby.

I was usually doing it 5-7 times per day but whilst pregnant I managed to go 9 months with being bulimic just once, which was a huge achievement for me.

Since having bub, who is now 1, i have only been bulimic 4 times through-out the year. It may seem like alot, but considering bulimia is an adicttive cycle that one gets entangled in, having that bit of control to "pull" myself out of its power is the hardest part, but it seems to be the part i have control of. I feel myself slipping at times, where i say, just once more, just once more, but then i realize its the cycle pulling me back in.

Im luckily on medications for my bulimia, as i have obsessive compulsive disorder with food, so my two problems contradicted each other, causing havoc on my life. Its strange, when im not being bulimic, I actually leave the house, i talk to people, i see the sunlight. When im bulimic, the world is dark and grey, i confine myself in a small area, and i cry because im miserable, or maby its because i couldnt throw up that whole pizza i just ate, perhaps i felt guilty as i would steal food, just to be bulimic with it. My throat would swell, id store excess fluid all over my body, and my face looked like a chipmonk.... looking back, i am soo glad i got that control, but sadly, if i didnt have my daughter, i dont think i would have this control
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Old 07-04-2013, 10:08 AM   #7
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What a struggle! I think your record over the last year is great. Four times does not seem like much at all in comparison to how it was for you formerly. Good for you!

I was also bulimic in my early 20s and was able to stay free of it during my pregnancy. After my daughter was born, I started back for about a year, but was able to finally get control of it. I get the mood improvement from fasting that the article mentions.
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Old 07-04-2013, 10:09 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bl0nd3y View Post
I found this interesting, as i suffered from bulimia. My mother also suffered for 17 years, where as i sought help earlier thanks to her encouragement but it was roughly 8 years.

I wont say im "cured" now, as mentally i never will be cured and will always have the same frame of mind. Iv managed to not be bulimic from the time i fell pregnant - my whole mind frame changed, and i started to care for more body for the sake of my baby.

I was usually doing it 5-7 times per day but whilst pregnant I managed to go 9 months with being bulimic just once, which was a huge achievement for me.

Since having bub, who is now 1, i have only been bulimic 4 times through-out the year. It may seem like alot, but considering bulimia is an adicttive cycle that one gets entangled in, having that bit of control to "pull" myself out of its power is the hardest part, but it seems to be the part i have control of. I feel myself slipping at times, where i say, just once more, just once more, but then i realize its the cycle pulling me back in.

Im luckily on medications for my bulimia, as i have obsessive compulsive disorder with food, so my two problems contradicted each other, causing havoc on my life. Its strange, when im not being bulimic, I actually leave the house, i talk to people, i see the sunlight. When im bulimic, the world is dark and grey, i confine myself in a small area, and i cry because im miserable, or maby its because i couldnt throw up that whole pizza i just ate, perhaps i felt guilty as i would steal food, just to be bulimic with it. My throat would swell, id store excess fluid all over my body, and my face looked like a chipmonk.... looking back, i am soo glad i got that control, but sadly, if i didnt have my daughter, i dont think i would have this control
I primarily struggled with anorexia, but at certain points I would also engage in bulimic behavior. I can say that I have truly recovered and it has been a decade since I have engaged in any of those behaviors that plagued me for many years. I hope you continue to choose health for yourself and your baby.
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Old 07-05-2013, 04:55 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarolinaCoast View Post
What a struggle! I think your record over the last year is great. Four times does not seem like much at all in comparison to how it was for you formerly. Good for you!

I was also bulimic in my early 20s and was able to stay free of it during my pregnancy. After my daughter was born, I started back for about a year, but was able to finally get control of it. I get the mood improvement from fasting that the article mentions.
that is excellent that you have managed to tackle it. After having a child is an extremely difficult time if your attempting to overcome an eating disorder as all the mixed hormones, and change in ones body physically is very overwhelming - many new emotions which often lead to binge eating, i often felt myself falling into old ways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carly View Post
I primarily struggled with anorexia, but at certain points I would also engage in bulimic behavior. I can say that I have truly recovered and it has been a decade since I have engaged in any of those behaviors that plagued me for many years. I hope you continue to choose health for yourself and your baby.
Carolina & Carly, Im glad to hear of other people who have managed to make a change and break free of such a horrible, addictive psychological disease and i find it very inspiring.

I also suffered anerexia at one point where i got to 35kg (75 pounds) but as im 150cm tall, it wasnt as bad as it sounds, but i was definatley receiving the Dr's warnings.

I not sure if my habits of bulimia were a part of the bulimic behavior or if my Obsessive compulsive disorder contributed to severity of the cycle, along with my obsession for diet and exercise, its was all a little mixed but i still think that overcoming any eating disorder is damn hard, as you cant go cold turkey like someone might with drugs or alcohol, when it comes to food we need it to survive so its a whole matter of mind training more than physical control.

may i ask you both, do you sometimes feel your thoughts sliding back into old patterns, say if you eat alot of something, are you instantly thinking about the impact on your weight, and what you have just done, or do you get depressed if you eat to much? or do these negative thoughts no longer take place in your mind? i often think - well that kfc looks soo good, one more time wont hurt....then i stop myself, but is this a thought pattern you both still experience?

This is where i think their is some truth behind the article, as when i manage to fast, i feel a sense of satisfaction. when i have a full stomach, even if im not "overfull" just full, i feel so miserable, uncomfortable, and like i have failed something, so i certainly feel good when fasting.
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Old 07-05-2013, 05:54 AM   #10
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I wont say im "cured" now, as mentally i never will be cured and will always have the same frame of mind.
You said it well, and it applies to me, too. I don't think we're ever cured. We can learn how to manage our illness, but it is a part of who we are. Much of the thinking is the same. I still have a tendency to overeat at times, especially sugar (once I get started, it's hard for me to stop), but it isn't the kind of binges I used to have. JUDDD has been very helpful because I don't worry as much about the little bit of weight I'll gain since a DD is just around the corner, so I never consider purging. Another thing that the years have taught me is that I must absolutely limit the treats I bring into the house. If they are here, I WILL eat them, and I will eat until they are all gone, so I don't "plan" for binges anymore the way I used to.

Like you, I love my fasting days. I feel so much energy and a peacefulness that I don't get any other way. It makes me think there is a biological component to bulimia since healthy women don't appear to get this same benefit from fasting.

I've been JUDDDing now for about two months, and the swings in weight from day to day just don't concern me like they used to. Before I started this WOE I was maintaining with Atkins in a 3-pound range like I am now, but anytime I saw 128, I hated myself. I never feel that way now. It has helped me make peace with my body. It's very freeing.
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Old 07-05-2013, 06:13 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by bl0nd3y View Post

may i ask you both, do you sometimes feel your thoughts sliding back into old patterns, say if you eat alot of something, are you instantly thinking about the impact on your weight, and what you have just done, or do you get depressed if you eat to much? or do these negative thoughts no longer take place in your mind?.
I can't say the thought never cross my mind, but it's not frequent and if a thought crosses my mind, my next thought is never to correct it, by unhealthy means. I have never really had the problem of binge eating, but did have the behavior of purging though it was after I feared over eating from carrots or yogurt. Like I said I've really been free from this monster for 10 years and there is nothing appealing or temping that I would risk getting sucked back into it.

Like I have posted before. I would not do 2 DDs in a row because JUDDD is not written that way and for me that could be an indication of unhealthy behaviors... I'll say again, that for me- it would send up warning signals.

I've seen some posts/links over the last several days that were worrisome to me and I just avoid things like that. Everyone has their own path, but I'm extremely protective of my health, mental health and well being, but having been in that bad place in the past I can recognize warning signs in others. It scares me, but I know I don't have to ever go back there.
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Old 07-05-2013, 06:24 AM   #12
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Thank you so much Blond3y, Carolina Coast and Carly! This is important and relevant to so many people. Your willingness to share your issues and your resolutions will help a lot of folks who also struggle with ED's.


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Old 07-05-2013, 07:44 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carly View Post

Like I have posted before. I would not do 2 DDs in a row because JUDDD is not written that way and for me that could be an indication of unhealthy behaviors... I'll say again, that for me- it would send up warning signals.

I've seen some posts/links over the last several days that were worrisome to me and I just avoid things like that. Everyone has their own path, but I'm extremely protective of my health, mental health and well being, but having been in that bad place in the past I can recognize warning signs in others. It scares me, but I know I don't have to ever go back there.
I've also had concerns about some posts I've seen recently, and the affect they could have on newbies or JUDDDers with histories of ED. I don't have personal experience, so I haven't responded, so I'm glad you did Carly. Thank you.
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Old 07-05-2013, 07:05 PM   #14
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I definitely have the improved mood in the first half of fasting, and then crankiness. I guess I am normal, as far as eating lol.

I, too, saw something that seemed worrisome about some posts...I have since tried to be supportive, IF it wasn't as it may have seemed, which I think was the case. I know that I could do double DDs and never be in danger of becoming anorexic, so I hope those that are doing these extended deprivation experiments are not actually "feeding" an eating disorder.
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Old 07-06-2013, 06:11 AM   #15
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Wow another great post today!!! Congrats to all of you fighting the on-going fight with ED.

I too have an ED. I was bulimic for a time and was able to break the cycle, but unfortunately I wasn't able to break the cycle of binge eating. That cycle eventually landed me beyond 314lbs. I say beyond because I was on Atkins about 3 weeks before I dared stepping on the scale and the scale read 314. I have no doubts I was at least 320lb at my highest.

The misery caused by bulimia and b.e. is enormous. What it did to my self-esteem during those years are injuries I still work on recovering from today.

I do think the study has merit. Even though you do not consider "skipping" dinner as a fast, the actual point is that there was a 20 hour window of non-eating each day. And that does constitute intermittent fasting as defined by many IF plans on the internet. So as a mechanism of fasts, it meets the criteria.

The main thing I think could have skewed the results as Dr. Gupta points out, is the influence the group had on each subject's eating habits. A new study just published that talked about the influence one's eating partners have on eating patterns. If you eat with someone who is a big eater, we tend to eat more ourselves...etc.

I do get the fasting benefits from ADF/IF. Last night on my DD, I seriously questioned whether or not to break my fast and eat. (I'm one of the people who fast from the end of the previous night's meal until at least 14-16 hours, post prandial or post meal.) Usually, I will simply fast 24 hours until the next dinner time, then enjoy a normal-sized 350-400 calorie meal. I might have a small 50 cal dessert after that meal.

My energy and mood levels all improve with ADF/IF. On UDs, I still maintain the IF 8 hour eating window and still stay low carb. So my mood remains pretty level and the energy I have is sooooo improved. As most of you know I'm still in the stages of recovery from breast cancer treatment. And part of that recovery encompasses a palling lethargy that's difficult to escape in addition to great amounts of pain in various areas stemming from multiple surgeries and they lymphedema they left behind.

Which brings me to my next point. The TRUE effects of ADF/IF are even more than mood/behavioral. The point to which the diet affects inflammation/inflammatory markers can not be discounted. I've no doubt that it helped me beat breast cancer back. I secretly ate ADF/IF during treatment and my tumor shrank over 60% during chemo. For my tumor-type, the doc told me that was an uncharacteristic response. I believe the difference made by activating the SIRT genes and also down-regulating IGF-1 and mTor (inflammatory markers), as well as reducing cytokine production is enormous and has MANY systemic effects, many of which are neuro-biological in origin!

There are studies showing that a protein sparing (which most of us do), ADF/IF has huge effects on Cancer, Parkinsons and Alzheimers as well as they may re-set diabetes 2because of re-setting liver metabolism. That's huge!

Anyway! Sorry for the long post!

Oh btw, BE and bulimia are something I will never be "cured", I recognize I'm only 1 bite away from recurrence. So it takes being aware all the time of the possibility of recurrence. CBT (cognitive behavior therapy) also worked hugely not only on the ed, but it also helps with my fasting days/hours.
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Last edited by pooticus; 07-06-2013 at 06:13 AM..
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Old 07-06-2013, 10:19 AM   #16
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Which brings me to my next point. The TRUE effects of ADF/IF are even more than mood/behavioral. The point to which the diet affects inflammation/inflammatory markers can not be discounted. I've no doubt that it helped me beat breast cancer back. I secretly ate ADF/IF during treatment and my tumor shrank over 60% during chemo. For my tumor-type, the doc told me that was an uncharacteristic response. I believe the difference made by activating the SIRT genes and also down-regulating IGF-1 and mTor (inflammatory markers), as well as reducing cytokine production is enormous and has MANY systemic effects, many of which are neuro-biological in origin!

There are studies showing that a protein sparing (which most of us do), ADF/IF has huge effects on Cancer, Parkinsons and Alzheimers as well as they may re-set diabetes 2because of re-setting liver metabolism. That's huge!/QUOTE]

Excellent excellent point Pooti. The more I read the biochemistry of fasting, the more persuaded I am that our ADF lifestyle will be saving our lives in the future. Even though my husband is not suffering from much of a weight problem, I have asked him to start skipping breakfast and waiting til lunch to eat. I'd like him to be around for a good long time, and I think IF is the key.
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Old 07-06-2013, 10:58 AM   #17
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Ouz I SOOO agree with you and am so glad your DH is now IF'ing! I think there is advantage to it even in a non-calorically restricted state!
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Old 07-06-2013, 11:00 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by pooticus View Post
Wow another great post today!!! Congrats to all of you fighting the on-going fight with ED.

I too have an ED. I was bulimic for a time and was able to break the cycle, but unfortunately I wasn't able to break the cycle of binge eating. That cycle eventually landed me beyond 314lbs. I say beyond because I was on Atkins about 3 weeks before I dared stepping on the scale and the scale read 314. I have no doubts I was at least 320lb at my highest.

The misery caused by bulimia and b.e. is enormous. What it did to my self-esteem during those years are injuries I still work on recovering from today.

I do think the study has merit. Even though you do not consider "skipping" dinner as a fast, the actual point is that there was a 20 hour window of non-eating each day. And that does constitute intermittent fasting as defined by many IF plans on the internet. So as a mechanism of fasts, it meets the criteria.

The main thing I think could have skewed the results as Dr. Gupta points out, is the influence the group had on each subject's eating habits. A new study just published that talked about the influence one's eating partners have on eating patterns. If you eat with someone who is a big eater, we tend to eat more ourselves...etc.

I do get the fasting benefits from ADF/IF. Last night on my DD, I seriously questioned whether or not to break my fast and eat. (I'm one of the people who fast from the end of the previous night's meal until at least 14-16 hours, post prandial or post meal.) Usually, I will simply fast 24 hours until the next dinner time, then enjoy a normal-sized 350-400 calorie meal. I might have a small 50 cal dessert after that meal.

My energy and mood levels all improve with ADF/IF. On UDs, I still maintain the IF 8 hour eating window and still stay low carb. So my mood remains pretty level and the energy I have is sooooo improved. As most of you know I'm still in the stages of recovery from breast cancer treatment. And part of that recovery encompasses a palling lethargy that's difficult to escape in addition to great amounts of pain in various areas stemming from multiple surgeries and they lymphedema they left behind.

Which brings me to my next point. The TRUE effects of ADF/IF are even more than mood/behavioral. The point to which the diet affects inflammation/inflammatory markers can not be discounted. I've no doubt that it helped me beat breast cancer back. I secretly ate ADF/IF during treatment and my tumor shrank over 60% during chemo. For my tumor-type, the doc told me that was an uncharacteristic response. I believe the difference made by activating the SIRT genes and also down-regulating IGF-1 and mTor (inflammatory markers), as well as reducing cytokine production is enormous and has MANY systemic effects, many of which are neuro-biological in origin!

There are studies showing that a protein sparing (which most of us do), ADF/IF has huge effects on Cancer, Parkinsons and Alzheimers as well as they may re-set diabetes 2because of re-setting liver metabolism. That's huge!

Anyway! Sorry for the long post!

Oh btw, BE and bulimia are something I will never be "cured", I recognize I'm only 1 bite away from recurrence. So it takes being aware all the time of the possibility of recurrence. CBT (cognitive behavior therapy) also worked hugely not only on the ed, but it also helps with my fasting days/hours.
Thank you so much for this!! Your experience is very motivating. My main reason for started ADF was for weight management and mood improvement, but your reminders about the other health benefits are priceless.

Today my husband and I watched "Eat, Fast, And Live Longer", and he's motivated to start 5:2 as soon as we're back from vacation. I read your post to him, and he is even more determined to make it a part of his lifestyle.
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Old 07-08-2013, 08:22 PM   #19
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Well, I will say I must be an exception to the rule or maybe one of the only ones challenging this article. I fast, I binge...period! JUDDD is what started me on my binging, I swear! I NEVER had a binging problem until 8 months into JUDDD and now it never ends! AND I NEVER binge in front of ANYONE!! It's always done alone, at home, in secret!!

And as far as changing my mood....the more I have to wait to eat the more I'm frantic and crazy about what it's going to do to me when I CAN eat! I binge....restrictions make me binge and causes terrible mood issues!

Great article but not in my world. and I'm sure in many others, too who suffer from an ED of any kind!
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Old 07-08-2013, 09:30 PM   #20
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Beeb--I used to binge in response to IF too, but something changed when I added in fast 5 and went more veggie. I don't know how to explain what happened. I can fast now without triggering the binge response. So strange. I'm so sorry it has been so difficult for you. I remember the helpless feeling. I trust you will, like me, find your answer. Hang in there
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Old 07-09-2013, 07:30 AM   #21
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Start Date: July 2011 (JUDDD in February 2012)
Quote:
Originally Posted by pooticus View Post
I do think the study has merit. Even though you do not consider "skipping" dinner as a fast, the actual point is that there was a 20 hour window of non-eating each day. And that does constitute intermittent fasting as defined by many IF plans on the internet. So as a mechanism of fasts, it meets the criteria.
Keeping in mind that the custom in Spain and some other countries is to have a large lunch in the afternoon, rest, and later on have a smaller, late dinner, it just seems like the study isn't too much of a departure from what people there commonly do anyway. Although, as you mention, that sort of lifestyle is more akin to intermittent fasting anyway.

(Of course, I have no idea if the participants actually adhered to that schedule in their daily lives, but I'm just saying that that was my initial reaction.)

I guess I also see 'fasting' as involving some sort of deprivation from food, and given that the participants would have already had their main meal of the day, it doesn't really seem to me to be 'fasting' - although, as you point out, they technically did not eat for a number of hours afterwards (some of which were sleeping hours).

In any case the study could also be seen as a study of mood change in the evening and nighttime with respect to the circadian rhythms of the participants, which may in fact be thrown off with eating disorders - I'm just saying it's not very rigorous of a study.
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Old 07-09-2013, 07:33 AM   #22
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Stats: 215/190's/somewhere in the 170's
WOE: 30 day whole food challenge
Start Date: July 2011 (JUDDD in February 2012)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeb View Post
Well, I will say I must be an exception to the rule or maybe one of the only ones challenging this article. I fast, I binge...period! JUDDD is what started me on my binging, I swear! I NEVER had a binging problem until 8 months into JUDDD and now it never ends! AND I NEVER binge in front of ANYONE!! It's always done alone, at home, in secret!!

And as far as changing my mood....the more I have to wait to eat the more I'm frantic and crazy about what it's going to do to me when I CAN eat! I binge....restrictions make me binge and causes terrible mood issues!
I don't want to sound like a walking advertisement for the book, but have you checked out Julia Ross's The Diet Cure? (The one in my sidebar) I've found the approach in her book to be helpful. She has a section on repairing the damage from low calorie dieting and also sections on binging.
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Old 07-09-2013, 08:39 AM   #23
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Location: Coastal NC
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Start Date: April 8, 2014 HDE, June 6, 2014 HDE/JUDDD
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avicenna View Post
I don't want to sound like a walking advertisement for the book, but have you checked out Julia Ross's The Diet Cure? (The one in my sidebar) I've found the approach in her book to be helpful. She has a section on repairing the damage from low calorie dieting and also sections on binging.
I haven't read that one, but I found "Brain Over Binge" by Kathryn Hansen very helpful.
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