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-   -   JUDDD: WOE Switchers and Healers (http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/juddd/806567-juddd-woe-switchers-healers.html)

SlowSure 06-21-2013 06:22 AM

JUDDD: WOE Switchers and Healers
 
The lovely Blonde with a Rose posted about how she prefers to think of her DDs as 'Healing Days': http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/ju...l#post16479086
Quote:

One thing I would like to share with you. I call my DD's "Healing Day" this time around. For me it's just more positive and reminds me of the healing powers of the Sirt-1 gene. When I did this before, my husband would ask "Are you up or are you down"? I didn't like saying I was down. After struggling with WW and crying in my soup, DH said "What about that every other day thing? You did great on that." And he was right.

A great meal is only 1 day away! Today, I'm healing.
This prompted some observations/thoughts about the JUDDD community at LCFs and I'll pop those into a separate post below about WOE Switchers and Healers.

Whitlin' 06-21-2013 06:29 AM

Oh, thanks. I can't always read all the threads and the newbies thread might be one I miss. Appreciate Blonde With A Rose's wisdom being pointed out.

The reason I like that thought, is that it always seems easier, as well as more productive/wholesome to DO something that to RESIST DOING something. It's good to think about "healing" as something we are DOING in addition to restricting our calories, which is sorta something we're not. :)

Also reminds us we're in this for more than the weight/size control.

SlowSure 06-21-2013 06:56 AM

WOE Switchers and Healers
 
It's never going to be entirely tidy but looking at Dawn's fascinating thread and reading the early comments of people who are now established JUDDD maintainers was eye-opening (as well as rather moving): http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/ju...than-year.html

In most WOE plans, you have:

Switchers: people who were substantially overweight, adopt a new WOE (low carb, low fat, Mediterranean) and make significant lifestyle changes. The initial success seems to lie in the transition from the SAD (or standard diet in your locality/stereotypical Western diet) to the new WOE. Long-term success may depend on how straightforward it is to maintain this WOE and how well it fits in with the rest of your life.

WOE Switchers: JUDDD seems to attract WOE Switchers. People who are diet veterans and have lost well on a plan but would prefer the flexibility that a JUDDD framework gives. (Kissa comes to mind here: she successfully maintained on Atkins and switched to JUDDD to shed a few extra pounds and for maintenance.

We also have Dawn and Carly who switched after their early losses on Atkins because JUDDD seemed a better fit to their lives. (If I have that correctly.) Because of what LCF is, we have people who are well disposed to LC or are LC aware.

Healers : People who are mixing and matching or experimenting with a new way of eating for health reasons such as menopausal status, coeliac disease, PCOS, asthma, hypothyroidism etc. etc. They're looking to improve their wellbeing and JUDDD provides a framework that can help them towards weight loss in the stable long-term although it's not their immediate concern.

JUDDD also seems to be throwing hybrids into the mix. Carly is, in so many important ways, no longer diabetic following her weightloss. Leo41 is a long-term maintainer of a very substantial loss that was achieved in concert with several health conditions.

Other categories?

tandc90 06-21-2013 07:48 AM

Hmmm, very interesting. I'm a Healer. Used to be a Switcher, a consistently failing one. I'm now in this for joint pain and high blood pressure. Weight loss will be a pleasant side effect. :)

Carly 06-21-2013 09:54 AM

I came as a "switcher" but stay as a "healer". My diabetes has been put into remission and my general health is greatly improved.

KeirasMom 06-21-2013 09:55 AM

I came as a switcher but remain because I'm lazy and this works so darned easily! Is there a "lazier" category? :D

LoCarbGal 06-21-2013 10:32 AM

Another Switcher checking in here. But I must admit the Healer aspects of this WOE were very attractive to me when first considering starting. And I have had some of the health benefits like less facial redness and skin irritation, which I take to mean lower overall inflammation.

Very interesting SlowSure! And I love Blonde with a Rose's "Healing Day". The term DD has never bothered me, but Healing Day really does tell the story. It does feel wonderful to give your body a break, and you just know good things are happening on those days.

grannysmith 06-21-2013 11:08 AM

I like "healing day", too. I would say most people, and especially those who struggle with weight, have a mind-body disconnect, sort of an adversarial relationship between the two that is counter-productive. "Healing day" feels more like an attempt to re-connect and reconciliate.

Good thread!

Seabreezes 06-21-2013 12:19 PM

Great thread....I also like Healing Day. I think a lot of us have continued with this because of its healing properties as well as the weight loss.

I originally came to LCF as a low carver and did well until I got tired of it and found JUDDD. It seemed wonderful!

I know I have learned so much from this group and its off shoots such as the PHD thread that SlowSure and Sunday post in. They started with JUDDD.

I had some major health issues this past year and have undergone 8 surgeries. My doctors cannot believe my attitude or how quickly I recuperated. I had been doing JUDDD before all of this started. I never gained any weight during all of my healing, but did not have a great appetite a lot of the time. I, until recently have not been in charge of the cooking, but just tried to eat small portions one day and larger the next. We eat out a fair bit and I just wait until dinner on those days.

I also added an 8 hour eating window in a couple of months ago. I really like that.

I am maintaining my weight. A few more pounds off would be nice, but I am happy where I am. I am also the senior member of the group, I think.

No matter where we came from, it is nice to have a WOE that is pleasant!

VioletsGrandMom 06-22-2013 01:57 AM

I came as a switcher but now I am staying because of healing. I have found that if I fast for at least 2 days a week my ra is minimized! I have not had an infusion in over a year and only take methotrexate. It's been a lifesaver for me.

Carly 06-22-2013 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VioletsGrandMom (Post 16481791)
I came as a switcher but now I am staying because of healing. I have found that if I fast for at least 2 days a week my ra is minimized! I have not had an infusion in over a year and only take methotrexate. It's been a lifesaver for me.

That is so awesome! I have not seen any improvement in my psoriatic arthritis or degenerative disc disease, but I wasn't expecting it, so I wasn't disappointed. My diabetes was reversed and that amazes me. I also have so much more energy 90% of the time which has dramatically improved my quality of life. The last blood work I had my hormones were still wacky, but the last 2 months TOM was reasonably pain free and reasonably spaced apart, which is not my normal experience.

Doggygirl 06-22-2013 08:41 AM

I love the "Healing Day" idea and I really appreciate reading about people's experience with healing/improving a variety of issues with JUDDD.

I am not diabetic (yet - but it runs in my family) but have some abnormal blood sugar things that go on. I am hoping to normalize some of that as one healing goal. I also have some arthritis issues and I would love to see improve.

I have struggled to stay 'strict low carb' as a way to address the BG issues. I hope JUDDD will allow me to get where I want to go with a little more flexibility in my food choices.

Carly - I'm curious what your exprience has been. Do you have to stay strict low carb? I'm thinking not IIRC some of your other posts...

Beth

Demonica 06-22-2013 08:53 AM

I came as a "switcher" off of Atkins, but stay because of "healing", plus I like the way IF makes me feel.

"Healing Day" is awesome!:up:

Flossyliz 06-22-2013 08:58 AM

Great thread, thanks SlowSure.
Healing Day is a brilliant label. I imagine it could help many people who feel deprived on DDs.
Lynn, yours is a great point too. I love the idea of reconnection.


I'm mostly a healer, though I'm delighted with my new shape that's thanks to JUDDD - and I'm 10lbs lighter than I even dreamed possible! :)

Last year, my weight began rapidly soaring and nothing seemed to be working - I actually gained doing LC! As the weight was mostly going around my middle, I was very anxious to avoid becoming diabetic.

I was very impressed when I read about the healing aspects of JUDDD. I think it's wonderful that we can use this as a healthy maintainance WOE. I've just turned 60 and should now be able to look forward to a much healthier future, thanks to JUDDD :heart:

Carly 06-22-2013 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doggygirl (Post 16482167)

Carly - I'm curious what your exprience has been. Do you have to stay strict low carb? I'm thinking not IIRC some of your other posts...

Beth

Nope- not low carb in the least. Nibbling chex mix as I type.

VioletsGrandMom 06-22-2013 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carly (Post 16481918)
That is so awesome! I have not seen any improvement in my psoriatic arthritis or degenerative disc disease, but I wasn't expecting it, so I wasn't disappointed. My diabetes was reversed and that amazes me. I also have so much more energy 90% of the time which has dramatically improved my quality of life. The last blood work I had my hormones were still wacky, but the last 2 months TOM was reasonably pain free and reasonably spaced apart, which is not my normal experience.

It's too bad that it did not work for you. My sister-in-law has PA and degenerative disc disease too - she is much older than you. She has recently seen a pain specialist and he has helped her. She gets Remicade too which has cleared her Psorarasis and helped with the arthritis. I used to take Remicade and that helped me very much but stopped working. I had a Rituxan infusion last May and that helped me a little. I was supposed to start Actemra in December but I put it off because my joints felt so much better. If I had not been between treatments when I started JUDDD, I probably would have gone ahead with it. I guess the IF is like biologics - it works for some but not all.

Carly 06-22-2013 01:15 PM

The fact is the pain has not gotten worse and perhaps that in itself is the miracle, because basically it has worsened with every year since it started when I was 21 and I can say it has not gotten any worse in the last 15 mos. The spinal fusion helped, but that was only 5 levels and my c-spine is a mess too so having the lumbar spine fused could not help that. I take meloxicam, robaxin and wear a 50mcg phentynal patch, but I almost never take the pills for break through pain anymore. I haven't even had that rx filled in months. I take Tylenol PM every night, but not needing all that Lortab has to be a good thing that I'm sure my liver is grateful about ;)

Pami 06-22-2013 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlowSure (Post 16480592)
Other categories?

I don't know what my category might be- I've been LC off & on, but mostly ON
since 2001. Then in 2012 I added JUDDD. Then I added carbs, then I stopped
any kind of controlled eating. This time I'm not adding carbs. I'm still striving for
low to moderate carbs, and low GI/GL ones when I do eat them. So basically,
I'm still on Atkins, as a WOE, but my schedule is JUDDD.

Yennie 06-22-2013 02:01 PM

WOE switcher here, having ditched Atkins only 3 weeks into it. Been JUDDDing 6 months, lost 30# and could not be happier with this incredibly sustainable WOE. I could not LC for the rest of my life, no way, which is why I know that if I hadn't found JUDDD, and I'd managed to stick with LC long enough, I would have eventually gained it all back *IF* I managed to lose this much in the first place.
I love how JUDDD makes me feel, so once I hit maintenance, I will stay with some sort of IF to keep the SIRTs flowing!

Librarygirl 06-22-2013 03:19 PM

I am a switcher too. I did LC for 2 months before starting JUDDD. I lost 6 lbs in two months on LC (3 lbs trying to limit calories on my own for 3 months before that), and have lost 20 on JUDDD in 7 months. Although it's been slow, it's been a life style change that I can stick with forever. :)

Doggygirl 06-22-2013 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carly (Post 16482285)
Nope- not low carb in the least. Nibbling chex mix as I type.

Wow. I am so encouraged to hear that. And...will you share that chex mix please??? Oh wait - I have to wait until tomorrow. :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yennie (Post 16482482)
I could not LC for the rest of my life, no way, which is why I know that if I hadn't found JUDDD, and I'd managed to stick with LC long enough, I would have eventually gained it all back *IF* I managed to lose this much in the first place.

That is exactly what happened to me. Twice I lost over 50 pounds doing LC and both times, I maintained for just over a year and then one bite of sugar sent me over the edge. The first time I regained all of it, and the second time I regained over half of it. (where I am now). I am so hopeful that JUDDD will not only help me lose but will be sustainable in a way that LC just wasn't for me. Congratulations on your success thus far! Very inspirational!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Librarygirl (Post 16482573)
I am a switcher too. I did LC for 2 months before starting JUDDD. I lost 6 lbs in two months on LC (3 lbs trying to limit calories on my own for 3 months before that), and have lost 20 on JUDDD in 7 months. Although it's been slow, it's been a life style change that I can stick with forever. :)

YES!!! My fingers are crossed it will be that way for me too. :aprayer:

Beth

grammyw/kitties 06-22-2013 06:07 PM

:dunno: If you have an 8 hr window does the Sirt 1 kick in? I am doing the 8hr window and feel pretty good about it. I gave up on FAST weightloss and am going slower and am under way less stress about it. I seem to obsess about it and I get discouraged when it doesn't happen like I think it should:annoyed: Though I would really like tpo get into the clothes I have..oh well..Slow but steady wins the race:aprayer:

Shelly_S 06-22-2013 06:09 PM

What a great thread! Not sure where I fit, but I'm probably a switcher. I've lost and gained 50-80 lbs over the years doing low fat, low carb, Medifast... heck, you name it, I tried it and some plans worked but I couldn't maintain the loss, others were a total frustration-fest. I also tried hypnosis, NLP and assorted other methods that were supposed to work for weight loss - no results with those either. The last thing I had done was LC and couldn't get beyond a certain point and found myself cheating too often because I felt deprived and frustrated. And like Yennie mentioned "I could not LC for the rest of my life, no way, which is why I know that if I hadn't found JUDDD, and I'd managed to stick with LC long enough, I would have eventually gained it all back *IF* I managed to lose this much in the first place."

I feel exactly the same way.

After 4 years of no dieting or controlled eating whatsoever and doing the best to make peace with my body and resigning to the fact that I would probably be heavy for the rest of my life, out of nowhere I felt inspired this year to try every crazy diet that sounded so crazy that it just might work! I started off with the Shangri-la diet for a month and lost 10 lbs, but didn't get the same benefits that other people did with appetite suppression and energy. Someone else on their forum recommended JUDDD. I started officially on 3/13 and haven't looked back.

Since Feb 1st, I'm down 42 pounds - 10 from Shangri-la and 32 from JUDDD and it is nothing short of a miracle!!! I look forward to DD's (and I love the idea of calling them healing days even though I have no issue of calling them down days because I talk about going "downstream" and letting things flow easily all the time.) I've never lost so much in such a short time in a way that is so easy and requires virtually no effort on my part, other than logging what I'm going to eat onto my phone calorie counting app. And while I don't have the same kind of health issues that other people have, I have this sense that my body is healing anything that might have popped up in the future before it shows up. And for the first time in my ENTIRE life, I feel like I'm going to reach goal and stay there. I have NEVER felt that way before. The idea of maintaining my weight was always a pipe dream at best. I love the idea of continuing this well into old age as a way to stay happy and healthy for the next 50+ years.

Librarygirl 06-22-2013 06:11 PM

I would think so, grammy. Google 8-hour diet and see what you can learn there. That's basically what you're doing. :)

Macci 06-23-2013 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shelly_S (Post 16482736)
What a great thread! Not sure where I fit, but I'm probably a switcher. I've lost and gained 50-80 lbs over the years doing low fat, low carb, Medifast... heck, you name it, I tried it and some plans worked but I couldn't maintain the loss, others were a total frustration-fest. I also tried hypnosis, NLP and assorted other methods that were supposed to work for weight loss - no results with those either. The last thing I had done was LC and couldn't get beyond a certain point and found myself cheating too often because I felt deprived and frustrated. And like Yennie mentioned "I could not LC for the rest of my life, no way, which is why I know that if I hadn't found JUDDD, and I'd managed to stick with LC long enough, I would have eventually gained it all back *IF* I managed to lose this much in the first place."

I feel exactly the same way.

After 4 years of no dieting or controlled eating whatsoever and doing the best to make peace with my body and resigning to the fact that I would probably be heavy for the rest of my life, out of nowhere I felt inspired this year to try every crazy diet that sounded so crazy that it just might work! I started off with the Shangri-la diet for a month and lost 10 lbs, but didn't get the same benefits that other people did with appetite suppression and energy. Someone else on their forum recommended JUDDD. I started officially on 3/13 and haven't looked back.

Since Feb 1st, I'm down 42 pounds - 10 from Shangri-la and 32 from JUDDD and it is nothing short of a miracle!!! I look forward to DD's (and I love the idea of calling them healing days even though I have no issue of calling them down days because I talk about going "downstream" and letting things flow easily all the time.) I've never lost so much in such a short time in a way that is so easy and requires virtually no effort on my part, other than logging what I'm going to eat onto my phone calorie counting app. And while I don't have the same kind of health issues that other people have, I have this sense that my body is healing anything that might have popped up in the future before it shows up. And for the first time in my ENTIRE life, I feel like I'm going to reach goal and stay there. I have NEVER felt that way before. The idea of maintaining my weight was always a pipe dream at best. I love the idea of continuing this well into old age as a way to stay happy and healthy for the next 50+ years.

Shelly! Such a great, inspirational story! Thank you for sharing :hugs:
My stats are similar to yours, and seeing your success, just a few months ahead of me, gives me so much hope, thank you!

grammyw/kitties 06-23-2013 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Librarygirl (Post 16482738)
I would think so, grammy. Google 8-hour diet and see what you can learn there. That's basically what you're doing. :)

I think I am a switcher/healer because I made myself lose the stress of a stressful program and the expectations of a 25 year old body to a lifetime of health and happiness God willing. I have rearranged the exercising to things that I enjoy and look towards health and happiness.I AM SO SLOW!!.Thanks for all the good encouragement that I get on this site..See you slimmer!!:jumpjoy::jumpjoy::jumpjoy::jumpjoy:

Doggygirl 06-23-2013 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shelly_S (Post 16482736)
What a great thread! Not sure where I fit, but I'm probably a switcher. I've lost and gained 50-80 lbs over the years doing low fat, low carb, Medifast... heck, you name it, I tried it and some plans worked but I couldn't maintain the loss, others were a total frustration-fest. I also tried hypnosis, NLP and assorted other methods that were supposed to work for weight loss - no results with those either. The last thing I had done was LC and couldn't get beyond a certain point and found myself cheating too often because I felt deprived and frustrated. And like Yennie mentioned "I could not LC for the rest of my life, no way, which is why I know that if I hadn't found JUDDD, and I'd managed to stick with LC long enough, I would have eventually gained it all back *IF* I managed to lose this much in the first place."

I feel exactly the same way.

After 4 years of no dieting or controlled eating whatsoever and doing the best to make peace with my body and resigning to the fact that I would probably be heavy for the rest of my life, out of nowhere I felt inspired this year to try every crazy diet that sounded so crazy that it just might work! I started off with the Shangri-la diet for a month and lost 10 lbs, but didn't get the same benefits that other people did with appetite suppression and energy. Someone else on their forum recommended JUDDD. I started officially on 3/13 and haven't looked back.

Since Feb 1st, I'm down 42 pounds - 10 from Shangri-la and 32 from JUDDD and it is nothing short of a miracle!!! I look forward to DD's (and I love the idea of calling them healing days even though I have no issue of calling them down days because I talk about going "downstream" and letting things flow easily all the time.) I've never lost so much in such a short time in a way that is so easy and requires virtually no effort on my part, other than logging what I'm going to eat onto my phone calorie counting app. And while I don't have the same kind of health issues that other people have, I have this sense that my body is healing anything that might have popped up in the future before it shows up. And for the first time in my ENTIRE life, I feel like I'm going to reach goal and stay there. I have NEVER felt that way before. The idea of maintaining my weight was always a pipe dream at best. I love the idea of continuing this well into old age as a way to stay happy and healthy for the next 50+ years.

I too take hope from your post! Thank you so much for sharing your story of how you got here and how it's been working for you!

Quote:

Originally Posted by grammyw/kitties (Post 16483497)
I think I am a switcher/healer because I made myself lose the stress of a stressful program and the expectations of a 25 year old body to a lifetime of health and happiness God willing. I have rearranged the exercising to things that I enjoy and look towards health and happiness.I AM SO SLOW!!.Thanks for all the good encouragement that I get on this site..See you slimmer!!:jumpjoy::jumpjoy::jumpjoy::jumpjoy:

Very wise words. I really need to work on my acceptance and take a calmer approach to things. Thank you for putting that out here!

Beth

SlowSure 06-26-2013 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KeirasMom (Post 16480943)
I came as a switcher but remain because I'm lazy and this works so darned easily! Is there a "lazier" category? :D

I'm willing to create a special Pareto category just for you. :)

Pareto principle (aka 80–20 rule, the law of the vital few, and the principle of factor sparsity) states that, for many actions, roughly 80% of the effects come from 20% of the contributors/causes - so, maybe Dawn could have better progress with another WOE but because JUDDD works, she's familiar with it and another WOE would have a learning curve that might involve initial mis-steps, she might be better with JUDDD until such time as the advantages of something else outweigh the predictable results of JUDDD. Or, the initial circumstances change enough to warrant a different approach.

Nah - maybe we should just call it the Dawn Category.

SlowSure 06-26-2013 03:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flossyliz (Post 16482183)
I'm mostly a healer, though I'm delighted with my new shape that's thanks to JUDDD - and I'm 10lbs lighter than I even dreamed possible! :)

Last year, my weight began rapidly soaring and nothing seemed to be working - I actually gained doing LC! As the weight was mostly going around my middle, I was very anxious to avoid becoming diabetic.

I was very impressed when I read about the healing aspects of JUDDD. I think it's wonderful that we can use this as a healthy maintainance WOE.

I think that LC is a superb choice for particular groups (crudely, eg, sedentary, overweight people whose bloodwork indicates pre-diabetes etc.). LC can dramatically alter pre-disease progression in these people and it contributes to a shift in preferred foodstuffs which is away from the types of food that were sabotaging the bloodwork and laying down bodyfat.

I am, however, increasingly disturbed to read reports from women (typically) that indicate (for some of them) that after a year or more of LC success, they're gaining weight, bloodwork is less good, or mood is becoming a problem. Or, like Flossyliz, women of a certain age, seem to have alterations to their hormone profile that enhance central deposition of bodyfat (the tummy area).

One other thing that I've noticed is the number of women who seem to be following a progression of LC -> calorie-counted LC -> nutritional ketosis -> low to moderate protein nutritional ketosis -> calorie-counted low to moderate protein nutritional ketosis. Some of them give it up (understandably), others stall despite being on 800-1100kcals a day and others make their goal. But, I've yet to see someone who made goal and maintained (caveat - there's a good chance that having made goal they no longer post).

Most disturbingly (to me) is that NK women who did make goal, now report a weight gain and are experimenting with yet more restricted WOE to attempt to identify the source of inflammation and food intolerances/allergies they experience/think that they have. I've taken a skip through the literature and although nothing addresses this as such, there are some possible explanations. A high fat diet (and NK is (crudely) 75%-90% calories from fat) is associated with the development of 'leaky gut' in some studies. I have to wonder if this is why some of the women are experiencing GI issues or other systemic allergy-like symptoms. There's also some suggestion that chronically low insulin levels (and that is one of the goals of NK) suppress nitric oxide - that helpful substance that has such a key role in relaxing blood vessel walls, contributing to immunology etc.

Research literature is very mixed in this area and it's too easy to cherry-pick studies to support a particular point of view.

I feel very odd to be flagging up something I've noticed from anecdotes on forum posts and my impression from various blogs but there it is. I also feel obliged to say that people like Rosedale argue that super-efficient metabolisms do depress activity (eg, lower RMR, lower body temperature, lower thyroid readings, less need for food) and this is desirable for longevity.

All of which is a long-winded way of saying that I think a JUDDD framework is excellent for several WOE because the fasting schedule does seem to add something useful to the general mix for a fair number of people.

shirlc 06-26-2013 06:30 AM

:goodpost: and very interesting!!!


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