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Old 06-19-2013, 01:01 AM   #121
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Have you read any of Dr. Michael Holick's work on Vit D? Very informative
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Old 06-19-2013, 01:53 AM   #122
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he has a you-tube video called "the D-lightful vitamin" that is pretty good, too
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Old 06-19-2013, 08:41 AM   #123
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Have you read any of Dr. Michael Holick's work on Vit D? Very informative
I just looked up his website! I'm going to read some of his articles.

I have chronically low Vitamin D, and for whatever reason, pills don't work for me. I take cod liver oil which seems to do the trick. Luckily it's summer and I'm in the sun a lot, but winter is difficult.
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Old 06-19-2013, 09:34 AM   #124
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I take 10,000 iu's of D3 daily which still is not enough to bring me to the levels that my physician would like to see. ( keeps me in the 60's; doctor would like high 70's ). With 400 iu's I had readings in the low 20's.
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Old 06-19-2013, 09:55 AM   #125
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I am happy to report that this morning after an UD my weight was only .1 higher than yesterday after my HWC DD (where 3 pounds went goodbye!). I know this won't be the case on the regular and will continue to weigh after DDs only for now on out but I was just curious since it was my first HWC DD and was wondering if my weight rebounded after yesterday a ton.
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Old 06-19-2013, 12:15 PM   #126
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How hungry do you all get on the HWC days. I assume you are not eating any food, right, just taking your calories from HWC? Are you more hungry, less hungry or about the same as a regular DD?
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Old 06-19-2013, 01:29 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by Macci View Post
How hungry do you all get on the HWC days. I assume you are not eating any food, right, just taking your calories from HWC? Are you more hungry, less hungry or about the same as a regular DD?
I've only been back at this a couple of days, but I'm not taking all my calories just from HWC. I have to have my YoCheese Pudding or the day just ain't complete. On Monday, I had mainly HWC (coffee, tea), the pudding and a small BLT salad for dinner.

Today, I've had two cups of coffee with cream, and am eating my pudding now. So far, the hungries have been minimal.

I've always done better taking in more fat than protein (I'm trying to keep things lower carb again), so the fat keeps the hungries away. Or, at least they're not as noticeable as when I eat higher carb.

I know for me, once I eat anything, it's harder to stay away from food. But, the higher fat does help me.
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Old 06-19-2013, 01:40 PM   #128
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What the heck is YoCheese pudding? Sounds yummy!
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Old 06-19-2013, 03:54 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grannysmith View Post
Have you read any of Dr. Michael Holick's work on Vit D? Very informative
No, but I definitely will look into that. Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macci View Post
How hungry do you all get on the HWC days. I assume you are not eating any food, right, just taking your calories from HWC? Are you more hungry, less hungry or about the same as a regular DD?
Usually not very, but toward dinnertime if I feel like liquid won't do it for me, I'll have some cream cheese or an avocado or something. It's not a lot of solid food, but it at least feels like something on my stomach. It's amazing how satisfied fat calories keep me.
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Old 06-19-2013, 04:37 PM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macci View Post
How hungry do you all get on the HWC days. I assume you are not eating any food, right, just taking your calories from HWC? Are you more hungry, less hungry or about the same as a regular DD?
Macci, it is only my second HWC DD but I find my hunger to be very low and much more manageable than other types of DD. My first day I did it I did end up eating about a little bit at the end of the night.

Its 6:30pm on my 2nd HWC DD and I am only now beginning to get hungry. I had a 2 tbs of HWC at 10:30am in coffee and have felt great all day!

Haven't decided what I will do for tonight just yet. I have no decaf at home and don't want to go out. I may try some tea with cream, go without anything, or have a small meal with about 200 cal.
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Old 06-19-2013, 04:47 PM   #131
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Figured I'd chime in too since I've been doing cream & coffee since the first dd almost exclusively.

I am not really hungry on DDs, but I am a LOT hungrier if I eat at all. So a little hunger is ok, feeling like I have to eat everything in the kitchen is not, lol

I do bounce a LOT more than LCG does, though, and have since the beginning. I don't know why that is, but I've become very used to the bounce now.

I think for me it's the actual liquids that help. If I eat anything at all over ravenous, even if its high fat.

And to be honest I'm pretty sure I consume waaaaay more than 500 cals on my DDs when I do liquids only and I still have consistently lost.
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Old 06-20-2013, 06:40 AM   #132
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I just completed my first dd yesterday and all day I had 4 T of HWC (200c). Some in coffee and some in dt dr pepper spread throughout the day. I ate around 6:30p - 1/2 bag cabbage, 1 oz sausage, lc cheese wedge, and some banana peppers all "fried" together with a little broth (180c) and I wasn't hungry for the rest of the day.

I was surprised and delighted!
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Old 06-20-2013, 07:02 AM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macci View Post
How hungry do you all get on the HWC days. I assume you are not eating any food, right, just taking your calories from HWC? Are you more hungry, less hungry or about the same as a regular DD?
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoCarbGal View Post
Usually not very, but toward dinnertime if I feel like liquid won't do it for me, I'll have some cream cheese or an avocado or something. It's not a lot of solid food, but it at least feels like something on my stomach. It's amazing how satisfied fat calories keep me.
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Macci, it is only my second HWC DD but I find my hunger to be very low and much more manageable than other types of DD. My first day I did it I did end up eating about a little bit at the end of the night.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumina View Post
I am not really hungry on DDs, but I am a LOT hungrier if I eat at all. So a little hunger is ok, feeling like I have to eat everything in the kitchen is not, lol
...
I think for me it's the actual liquids that help. If I eat anything at all over ravenous, even if its high fat.

And to be honest I'm pretty sure I consume waaaaay more than 500 cals on my DDs when I do liquids only and I still have consistently lost.
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I just completed my first dd yesterday and all day I had 4 T of HWC (200c). ... ate around 6:30pm... I wasn't hungry for the rest of the day.

I was surprised and delighted!
This is a very interesting cross-section of responses that show some commonalities as well as differences.

I'd like to see more data on this from people who can measure their blood glucose, but some people report that because fat doesn't trigger the release of insulin for them, they're less likely to be hungry after consuming it like this. (There's an on-going research controversy about whether caffeine -> a small insulin release in some people but there seems to be something quite complicated going on here as caffeine will also trigger a small amount of breakdown of fat from your own body's stores for fuel. So, definitely a YMMV and possibly things balance eachother out.)

There's also a tiny area of research into the gut flora - it's FIAF (fasting-induced adipose factor). It's very speculative but it seems that after you've been fasting (in this context, it can even mean just that you've been asleep for long enough) then the bacteria in parts of the gut get peckish and they manipulate the body into breaking down some bodyfat stores to give them a little snack to keep them ticking over until you eat something that they can get their teeth into (so to speak). Of course, for some people, this FIAF signal can also happen at the same time as, "Wakey wakey, get up and feed me some proper food" - so who knows if some people benefit from this. Particularly if the act of chewing and swallowing is taken as encouragement to trigger greater emotional need or actual hunger for food. (It's a very speculative area but also a little odd to think that there are times when we might have our behaviour controlled by gut flora.)

I'm trying (not succeeding) not to make this an essay, so I'll break this up into several posts.
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Old 06-20-2013, 07:07 AM   #134
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Quote:
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Macci, it is only my second HWC DD but I find my hunger to be very low and much more manageable than other types of DD. My first day I did it I did end up eating about a little bit at the end of the night.

...I have no decaf at home and don't want to go out. I may try some tea with cream, go without anything, or have a small meal with about 200 cal.
TMI but some people may be better off eating a little something at some point during their DD in order to make sure that they don't have such a reduced volume of food intake that they develop constipation, particularly where this is an EOD pattern. (Everyone's mileage definitely varies with this.)

I like cocoa with MCT oil - I can only think that it would be even nicer with cream. Both MCT and cream are good additions to a number of broths, soups and bouillons and would turn an otherwise low cal bouillon into a sustaining snack, possibly full of useful electrolytes and minerals.
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Old 06-20-2013, 07:41 AM   #135
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Quote:
I think for me it's the actual liquids that help. If I eat anything at all over ravenous, even if its high fat.
This has been my experience too Lumina. I can usually control it pretty easily, but non-liquids tend to make me hungrier.
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Old 06-20-2013, 12:34 PM   #136
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What the heck is YoCheese pudding? Sounds yummy!
Oh, it is. Yes. It is.

I buy copious amounts of full fat plain yogurt in the big tub (Dannons) and strain it so it comes out like Greek yogurt (thick). There's some debates on whether or not you can count half the calories/carbs as the whey strains out (I do). So ..

On a DD, I take about a cup of yogurt, add a little Splenda, some sprinkles of SF Jello mix (love key lime or strawberry) and a few squirts of canned whipped topping, and mix it all up.

On an UD, I double it and use some low-sugar jam instead of the jello.

I freeze it awhile before eating and once you get the freezing time down, it has the texture of thick pudding or even soft ice cream.

Last edited by vanilla_latte; 06-20-2013 at 12:35 PM.. Reason: misspelling
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Old 06-20-2013, 12:38 PM   #137
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I got my order from Vitamin Doctor, which included Pterostilbene (which I haven't been brave enough to start yet) and Iron-free multivitamins. I took all my supps on an empty stomach this morning, including this new multi, and haven't had a bit of that old nausea. You guys were right about the iron! So now I'll take the iron free on DDs and the regular multi on UDs after I've eaten. Problem solved!
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Old 06-20-2013, 01:16 PM   #138
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Well, I tried to jump on the HWC bandwagon yesterday. I had a particularly bad UUAD on Tuesday, so I really wanted nothing more on Wed than some liquids anyways. And after spending Tuesday night pouring over this thread, I thought I it was worth a shot! I am of the camp, hold out as long as possible because once I nosh on ANYTHING, I go into hungry overdrive. So my typical DD lately is liquid all day anyways and then dinner. I figured HWC would be easy for me and would help making it through until dinner even easier than normal and if I was lucky I could hold off solid foods all day. I'm planning on trying this for the next few DD's and I want to log and see what happens.

First Day- Made it until 3:00 and I was starving. Hmmmm, that's not really like me. I also felt my blood sugar drop around noon which doesn't usually happen to me from fasting. I usually have BS issues when I fast and then eat something high in carb/sugar. Since starting JUDDD I haven't had any issues with my BS and not eating for long stretches on DDs. Could have been the after effects of my UUAD the day before including a HIGH carb late evening dinner.
I picked up a package of thin sliced turkey when I was at the store for other things. High protein, no carb, very low in cal. I had about 25 cal worth. Which is just a few pieces. But then I found myself going back for another few pieces and then again.
By 6:00, I was out of my mind starving. I decided to run some errands and got a decalf with HWC but it did nothing for my hungries. I decided to go to a movie just to give myself something to do to keep my mind off food. By 10pm when it got out I was ravenous. And since I'm out of town for work, I had nothing to fall back on. Hit up Wendys for delux hamburger 250 cal and more of the turkey when I got back to the hotel.

Still ended the day at 450 which is lower than my 514 allowed. (If I properly counted how much HWC Starbucks was actually putting into my coffee). But, I was hungrier than normal and experienced BS issues which has not been normal. And I got no where near my goal of liquid fasting only. Will try again on Friday and see how things turn out. I was hungry, but my achilles heel may have been giving in and eating those first few slices of turkey because it did all go downhill after that. Not totally ready to declare it a failure for me yet, too many other variables.
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Old 06-20-2013, 01:27 PM   #139
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Quote:
I got my order from Vitamin Doctor, which included Pterostilbene (which I haven't been brave enough to start yet) and Iron-free multivitamins. I took all my supps on an empty stomach this morning, including this new multi, and haven't had a bit of that old nausea. You guys were right about the iron! So now I'll take the iron free on DDs and the regular multi on UDs after I've eaten. Problem solved!
that is so smart! I don't think I ever made the connection, but I tried taking a multi on an empty stomach (long before JUDDD) once and I promptly threw up on my way to the bus stop. I'm going to look into iron-free multis.

Quote:
Still ended the day at 450 which is lower than my 514 allowed. (If I properly counted how much HWC Starbucks was actually putting into my coffee). But, I was hungrier than normal and experienced BS issues which has not been normal. And I got no where near my goal of liquid fasting only. Will try again on Friday and see how things turn out. I was hungry, but my achilles heel may have been giving in and eating those first few slices of turkey because it did all go downhill after that. Not totally ready to declare it a failure for me yet, too many other variables.
Sorry it wasn't such a success for you Andy. Let us know how it works if you do try it again!
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Old 06-20-2013, 01:45 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by LoCarbGal View Post
Usually not very, but toward dinnertime if I feel like liquid won't do it for me, I'll have some cream cheese or an avocado or something. It's not a lot of solid food, but it at least feels like something on my stomach. It's amazing how satisfied fat calories keep me.

Hmmmmmm. This makes me think. When I wanted food I reached out for high protein VERY LOW FAT and calorie. I choose lean turkey breast. Because that's what I accustomed to do on a DD, right? But, I wonder had I picked up an avocado, for instance, if I wouldn't have tailspined (tailspun?) into I have to eat everything in sight right now. BPC's always kept me full and feeling good in LC days, I was sure this would work for me. But, maybe tomorrow when I try this again, I follow this lead. Heck I think I even have some fat bombs in the freezer still! (anyone want to guesstimate the calories in that for me! )
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Old 06-20-2013, 02:13 PM   #141
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Sorry it wasn't a successful first HWC day for you Andy. I do think you may be right about it being rebound from an UUAD, especially if it was a carby one. But I also wonder if you were having enough HWC. My large mug of coffee usually has 2T aka 1 oz of HWC, which is 100 calories, and enough to make me feel satisfied. Also, being away from home the first time you tried it might have been particularly challenging.

I hope Friday goes much better for you!
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Old 06-20-2013, 02:31 PM   #142
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Well, my HWC/coffee day yesterday ended badly - again. I'm thinking it may not be for me, which is odd because I love to fast.

The only thing I can think is that I'm just not drinking enough to get the appetite suppression that I really need. I made it to 9pm and thought I was going to starve to death (give me a break, right?) so rather than making hot tea with cream, I ate some crackers with cheese. I still came in under my allotted DD calories and was 2 lbs down from the UD on Tuesday (and Monday and Sunday ).

I'm baffled, but willing to continue trying.

Macci, I get very hungry on HWC/coffee days, more so than when I'm eating. I haven't been able to figure out why, because I'm consuming the same amount of calories.
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Old 06-21-2013, 05:47 AM   #143
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2nd HWC & dinner DD planned.

Plan is to have coffee or soda with HWC until about 6pm. Dinner is "fried" cabbage, laughing cow cheese, chicken broth and maybe a tiny bit of hamburger. I really don't have a lot of time to put into dinner, thankfully. I have full night of cooking and clothes shopping for my 4 children! Fun Fun!
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Old 06-21-2013, 05:56 AM   #144
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Just reporting in. I'm drinking MCT oil boosted coffee/chai/cocoa on both UD and DD (as explained earlier) and I'm doing this as part of a dietary strategy to reduce the frequency and intensity/duration of migraines.

For various reasons, I couldn't have the MCT oil last weekend, and on Monday, with difficult barometric pressures in the UK, I had a fairly savage headache. I was able to have some MCT oil on Monday and every day since (2-3Tbsp) and this week, despite the horribly fluctuating weather which is giving headaches to people who don't normally get them - I haven't had another one.

I have the other things that I normally get with the headache, such as slight swelling and bruising to soft tissues on my face, TMI - my nose runs like a tap at times - TMI, I need to wear shades even indoors because of the light sensitivity - but, no headache. I don't care if this indicates that I've switched from a 'normal' migraine to a so-called 'silent' migraine for now (silent=other signs but no pain).

I shall continue my experiment and try to ensure that I don't go without the MCT again.
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Old 06-21-2013, 11:09 AM   #145
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Since starting JUDDD I haven't had any issues with my BS and not eating for long stretches on DDs. Could have been the after effects of my UUAD the day before including a HIGH carb late evening dinner.
This would be my (uneducated) guess. Not so much the UUAD (unless it was carb-laden), but the high carb late dinner. Eating lower carb helps tremendously with my appetite. Eating carbs, love 'em as I do, only has me searching for more. Plus, typically, any hunger I have on a DD is more manageable than when I was eating carbs.

I'm on a DD today, it's just after noon and I'm on my second cup of coffee with HWC. Got my YoCheese Pudding waiting for me in a bit. Hunger has been minimal so far. Tomorrow is my first weigh-in since beginning again. Hope to see a little progress.
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Old 06-22-2013, 04:23 AM   #146
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I'm tempted to try this but am having difficulty deciding what passes here as HWC - nothing in the shop says it. I have whipping cream and breakfast cream in the easily affordable section & single and double cream in the expensive section. I don't mind buying the expensive stuff (still cheaper than food for the day) - but not if the other stuff is acceptable.

Not everything here has calorie values, but most is roughly the same - so what cals/portion does the HWC come out at?

Thanks
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Old 06-22-2013, 06:13 AM   #147
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My Heavy whipping cream reads: 1 Tbsp. 15 mL equals 50 calories. Fat calories: 50; saturated fat 3 g, total fat 5 g

Hope that helps.
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Old 06-22-2013, 08:58 AM   #148
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Mine's the same as Goner's.
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Old 06-22-2013, 09:00 AM   #149
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WOE: HDE/JUDDD/Lowish Carb
I'll be having a HWC or fat-fast day today again. These days really do feel good.
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Old 06-22-2013, 10:26 AM   #150
Very Gabby LCF Member!!!
 
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Salalah, Oman
Posts: 4,416
Gallery: MintQ8
Stats: 267.6/257/140
WOE: JUDDD/Paul McKenna
Start Date: 9 Nov 2014
Thanks!
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