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Old 05-23-2013, 10:31 AM   #1
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My experience with bioidentical hrt -- so far

Hi, all! I haven't been around the board much lately, but I am still JUDDD'ing and reading every day. Just too lazy to post, apparently.

I finally had my appointment at the Tarpon Springs "Vital Well-Being Center" yesterday for my consult of bioidentical hormone replacement therapy. Do not have a prescription yet, but I thought I'd share my experience thus far, as I know some folks are interested.

Ok, so here goes: The whole appointment took about two hours. I found the center (finally, after getting lost, calling, and getting some pretty interesting "directions" from the front desk staff -- lol) and showed up 10 minutes early for the appointment. I was handed a mountain of paperwork to fill out -- much of it asking for details of my medical history. It was very thorough -- covering things like childhood antibiotic use, family illnesses, current lifestyle habits, etc...) I did mention that I do "alternate day fasting" and the doctor, surprisingly, said she was familiar with it. Wow! And she actually had nothing negative to say...

So, that was one plus for the Doc. On the downside, her bedside manner left something to be desired. I got to witness her scolding an employee for wearing too much perfume (in front of me) and she later asked me to lower my voice because "she had a migraine." Ok, no problem, I complied (although I don't *think* I'm super-loud, usually) and she also told me I needed to speak more slowly and not "multitask.' Ummmmm... ok. Not realy sure what that means in terms of speaking... but I'll try. :P

Anyway, the intake interview was very thorough. She said from the symptoms I was describing, she has a few suspicions as to which hormonal/adrena defficiencies we're going to find. I was disappointed because I'd been told I'd be taking home a 'comprehensive adrenal panel' saliva test -- and they had none. I'm supposed to get one next week when I come back for bloodwork. The doctor also ordered a $375 'comprehensive stool panel' (which had never been discussed with me over the phone) -- I declined this because I don't see how it relates to the symptoms I'm being seen for. Maybe in the future, but I don't feel I need this right now.

Ok, so for anyone considering -- here's my cost breakdown (out of pocket, unless otherwise indicated):

Initial visit -- $299
Saliva test -- $280
Bloodwork -- $0 (insurance covers)
Follow up visits (between 2-6 per year) $175 each.
Bioidentical hormones -- $10-$30 per month

So, all in all, a mixed bag so far. I was impressed with the Doc's seeming level of knowledge and the thoroughness of the exam/interview. However, she herself and the office staff were... kinda unprofessional, if we're going to be blunt. lol But, obviously, I have high hopes and I'll be back next week for the bloodwork and to get the saliva test. Will keep updating this thread as I go.
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Old 05-24-2013, 09:26 AM   #2
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Thanks for the update, Deen. I have seen a hormone doctor who uses blood testing to monitor thyroid and female hormone issues, and who clearly explained the benefits of always using bio-identicals when making changes. I really appreciated the clear explanations. But I have no experience with adrenal fatigue diagnosis, so not knowledgeable there. Haven't had a saliva test myself, but know others who have. Hadn't heard of the stool testing. Best wishes.
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Old 05-24-2013, 11:38 AM   #3
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Very interesting Deen. I'm just sorry the office and the doctor don't have a better vibe (to use that obnoxious word). I'm not sure I'd tolerate the doctor speaking to me that way. By that I mean, I'm not sure I'd go back - I probably wouldn't say anything during the visit. But if she can get your health situation squared away, maybe it's worth putting up with.
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Old 05-24-2013, 02:32 PM   #4
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Thanks, guys -- I will keep this thread updated on how it's going. I'm going back for the bloodwork on Tuesday the 28th, then I have to come back for results on June 18th. LoCarbGirl -- I had a very similar reaction, not wanting to go back and deal with this woman again. BUT, I've decided I will for a couple of reasons. First of all, there are very few doctors in the area who do bioidenticals (she's closest, and she's about a half an hour away), and this clinic has a good reputation. I didn't even tell you the half of it -- she was also clearly annoyed and made a big show of having to push all her other appointments back, because I was only 10 minutes early, as opposed to the 30 minutes early I was supposed to be. She knew I'd gotten lost and called the office twice for directions. Also, no one mentioned anything about 30 minutes early... anyway... so, needless to say, this person has NO bedside manner. However... my thinking is this -- I will put up with her being a B if it gets me what I want. I've got my eye on the prize, here, lol. I've already invested $299 -- I'm getting a prescription. And, for all her personality "issues" she does seem to know what she's doing. So, i'm sticking it out for now. I look forward to regaling all my BUDDD's with more horror stories about her! roflol. Seriously, though, I hear you -- my first reaction was to run a mile. But then I thought... no... this B's not gonna run me off -- I'm gettin' my estrogen, baby!!! :P
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Old 05-24-2013, 02:47 PM   #5
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maybe she did have a headache which would result in her being upset with employee with too much scent, especially IF she had discussed it before with her,, sounds like she had a hangover though lol, regardless an employee should be scolded in private, hopefully your next visit with her will be more pleasant!
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Old 05-24-2013, 10:56 PM   #6
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Yeah, I hear you on your time and money investment. I have to rant a bit about this whole thing doctors are doing now. They set your appointment and then ask you to get there 15 or 30 minutes early or whatever. Huh? Just tell me what time to be there, and I can handle that.
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Old 05-25-2013, 06:54 AM   #7
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I'm interested in how you can pay so little for the hormones themselves. I've been on bio-identicals for about six years and have no insurance. I pay about $100/mth for my progesterone and estrogen together. Compounding pharmacies make a fortune on these "drugs".
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Old 05-25-2013, 08:15 AM   #8
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Thank you for sharing your experience Deen! Would you mind giving a little background on what made you go down this road to begin with? Was it thyroid issues?
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Old 06-04-2013, 03:19 PM   #9
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Hey, everybody -- ok, finally back with an update. DeeDee -- my main issue is pcos (with low estrogen, high testosterone, in my case). I don't have any thyroid issues that I know of YET (TSH tests normal) - but don't know my T3 results yet. I believe that my hormone imbalance was caused by years of being on the pill and my body is having a hard time producing enough estrogen without it. I do notice an improvement in symptoms (acne and night-sweats, primarily) after being off the pill for 8+ months.

Ok, the last visit -- sigh. I'm really about at the end of my rope with this place. They just strike me as so unprofessional. I was explicitly told that all bloodwork was covered ("we'll bill your insurance -- if they reject something, we eat the cost" -- is what I was told specifically) Well guess what -- 2 of the tests were apparently "very unusual" and not covered -- which I was told AFTER they'd been administered. I can't believe they'd do that -- the doc did apologize and offer to "let me" go do another glucose tolerance test at another lab -- yeah, two gluc. tests in two days -- thanks, but no thanks (those things are nasty -- and they also screw up your DD! :P) I am just fed up with them -- also, my saliva panel hasn't even been done yet, as they still don't have the tests restocked in their office (was told they'd "definitely" have them by my second office visit -- they didn't). Then was told that they'd call within 48 hours and let me know they'd shipped one to me. It's been a week and they haven't shipped anything. So anyway... yeah, not a happy camper right now. I've invested $300 so far -- I'm seriously considering getting my lab results over the phone and taking my business elsewhere. What do y'all think?


oh, and @theredhead: I am going by what they've TOLD me my monthly costs would be for the "cocktail" as dispensed by a compounding pharmacy. However, I am rapidly coming to distrust anything they say, and wouldn't be surprised if it ended up being much more. There seem to be a lot of hidden costs with this place.
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Old 06-04-2013, 03:30 PM   #10
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The cost does seem to be very low. What type of hormones are they going to give you? I did the cream for several years and it was $100 per month. The Progesterone I take is $40 per month. I am backing away from the pellets (Testosterone/Estorgen) but they were $400 every 3 months.


They should be able to mail you the Cortosol test? It's just a tiny box with a vile in it that you spit into and Fedex to the testing company.
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Old 06-04-2013, 03:53 PM   #11
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I'm sorry that your experience with this place has been so bad. I would run the other direction!

As I mentioned, I've been on BHRT for about six years and have a very knowledgeable doctor. I went off birth control pills and suddenly discovered I was fully in menopause, complete with terrible night sweats. BHRT really helped a lot, but in recent months I've become more and more uncomfortable with the idea of changing my body's chemistry this way indefinitely. The endless mandatory office visits, blood work, etc, have made me resentful lately, like I've been hijacked by my own body.

After a lot of contemplation and research, I've decided to wean myself off of them to see if my own body will eventually begin supplying enough of its own hormones (for a normal, post-menopausal woman), and not relying on supplemental hormones. I tried going cold turkey a couple of years ago and that was a very bad idea! So far, so good. I've dropped my morning dose about three days a week for the past month and feel fine. I intend to stretch this out at least a year.

I guess the reason I'm telling you this is to let you know that if you can find a good practitioner, BHRT can really get you through what otherwise might be a rough time, but consider it for a relatively short time. I'm beginning to realize that, while BHRT is probably much safer than conventional, there are still no long-term studies on the safety.
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Old 06-04-2013, 04:36 PM   #12
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Erin57 -- yes, I'm thinking the same thing -- the cost just seems unrealistic. The hormones they've mentioned giving so far are estrogen and progesterone, and possible thyroid medication (not really a hormone, I know). Yep, the cortisol test (actually, I think it's a whole adrenal panel) is what has been out of stock in their offices and they keep promising to ship. We'll see. Not holding my breath. lol

Red, (I'm abbreviating you, sorry! :P) -- you give me a lot of food for thought in your post. I fear becoming dependent on these hormones and I'm beginning to wonder if I really need them. My main problem now is extreme difficulty losing weight. The acne and night sweats have stopped, and my mood is really nice and balanced (something that wasn't always the case on the pill, and I worry that the bhrt would make me irritable like the pill did -- what was your experience with this?) I am wondering if I'm better off just not going on them in the first place.

I was driving past my old hcg doctor's office the other day and remember how much I'd liked her and how helpful and knowledgeable she'd been. HCG was one of the few things that absolutely did work for me, so I decided to go that route and see her again. I'm going to ask her opinion about the hormones as well. Thanks for sharing your experiences -- it's really helpful.

-- D

p.s. -- I'm 39 (omg... tomorrow... 40!!!) and am still having a regular cycle -- it was irregular when I first went off the pill (like every 30-40 days) but now you can set a watch by it -- 28 days. Any thoughts there?
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Old 06-04-2013, 04:52 PM   #13
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I was stalled in my weight loss for a very long time. I went off the pill thinking it might help. I started the BHRT to control the night sweats, and it did, but I still couldn't seem to get my weight down any more. Meantime, I was diagnosed hypo and put on Armour. I definitely had less of an afternoon slump in energy, but still no weight loss. That's about the time I started doing hCG on my own. It took five rounds to get off fifty pounds, and I had to do a couple of rounds a year to keep from creeping back up too much.

FInally, I discovered JUDDD and it's made maintaining my loss almost effortless. I stay close to my goal weight and enjoy life.

I'm sure everyone's experience is different. I was disappointed that balancing my hormones and treating my thyroid didn't solve my weight issues, but it doesn't matter to me so much now that I've discovered how right JUDDD is for me (and my DH).

Ten years ago, I weighed 239 and felt pretty hopeless. Fast forward and I'm feeling great, having maintained my size 4-6 for at least three years. There IS hope. You just keep having to plug away at figuring out what works for you. I sincerely hope you'll keep at it and know success in this journey.
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Old 06-04-2013, 05:22 PM   #14
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Omg, I'm so glad to read your post! YES -- I've been stuck at this weight (hovering around 230) for the past year -- before that, it was more like 245. I started eating a more Paleo diet and took off 15 pounds over a few months, but no more would budge. I see your high weight was exactly what mine is now! Must be a sign -- lol. I've tried hcg once before, but I stupidly tried to do a round right before a trip to nyc -- and only for 10 days. Obviously, I did not understand the protocol very well -- that will not be the case this time. I SO feel what you are saying -- I've had it in my head all these years that balancing the hormones (and treating possible thyroid issues) was going to be the key to my weight loss -- but now I'm just not sure. I've also read that hcg can be very helpful in, not so much balancing your hormones, per se, but helping the body self-balance, if that makes any sense? I'm so glad we started talking about this! I really feel like I want to give the hcg a REAL try before becoming dependent on hormone supplementation. Let me ask you -- what type of hcg did you use -- drops, shots, homeopathic? My doc offers drops and shots -- I have no idea which to choose! (also, I know this isn't the board for it -- but any tips are more than welcome -- I'm kind of nervous. I'm good at doing 500 cal. DD's -- but 40 in a row? yikes :/ )
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Old 06-04-2013, 05:42 PM   #15
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I did shots only, on my own. I was pretty strict with the protocol and didn't take liberties very much, as a lot of people do. I never did more than a short round because I didn't want to get too burned out. A couple of times, I'd do 23 days, then an interruption for a week or two, then resume for another couple of weeks. A lot of people can successfully do six weeks at a time, but I couldn't ever talk myself into it, lol.

There's as good forum that was extremely helpful to me. I have a huge journal there, same user name, at Happily Thinner After. Good luck!
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Old 06-04-2013, 08:39 PM   #16
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Thank you all for sharing your experiences here. I've been trying to read up on different hormone treatments for PCOS and there's a mess of information out there that I don't know how to parse through. I'm actually considering (most likely) going back on the pill, since I've started getting my period every other week along with some wicked symptoms with it. I'm going to ask my gyno about other hormone treatment as well, though it seems like you need to go to a special clinic to find someone well versed in it?

I never had negative side effects on the bcp, I only went off it because it didn't seem necessary to me and it was an additional cost. But I'm desperate right now.
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Old 06-05-2013, 09:06 AM   #17
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DeeDee -- believe me, I know it's a tough call (whether or not to go on the pill again), and I've considered it many times. It's been my experience that the "regular" doctors don't know much about bioidenticals and will pretty much tell you that "no studies have concluded" that they're a) effective at all, and b) that they're any more effective than synthetic hormones. Technically, that's true -- they have not been adequately studied.

I wonder if your symptoms would be helped by natural progesterone cream (bioidentical -- but available over the counter)? Only reason I ask is because this is what I'm planning to do myself. It has a reputation for balancing out the cycle, and is a good thing to try first, in my opinion, if you don't want to go on the pill. Many docs say this is actually a better "cure" for pcos than the pill, because it sort of trains the body to start producing on its own. Might be worth a google ("progesterone cream pcos treatment" will get you tons of info) -- usually the protocol is simply 15-20 mg, rubbed into a fatty area, on the last 14 days of your cycle. Emerita is the brand I use and it's supposed to be great. Good luck -- let us know what you end up doing and how it works for you!
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Old 06-05-2013, 09:30 AM   #18
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Thanks Deen! You know, I had actually just been reading about over the counter progesterone cream. They even sell it at Whole Foods so I could easily get it. I had wanted to talk to a doctor first, and maybe get the bcp prescription so I had it in case I needed it. But I'd love to try something more natural that regulates things first.

I guess my worry (and tell me if you share this at all) is that doing this without real supervision, I could somehow screw things up for myself? Or that it wouldn't work. Do you have any idea how long it takes for a progesterone cream to start working?
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Old 06-05-2013, 03:21 PM   #19
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Well, I know what you mean about the worry of screwing things up even more -- believe me, I feel ya! I was not SO much concerned about that with the progesterone cream because it's widely considered to be a very gentle, sort of first-resort approach to the problem. I didn't really think it would be strong enough to do anything, to be honest. I think I was wrong about that -- I really believe it gets into the system right away. I DID experience some irritability on it, even - so I know it was having some effect. Not as bad as I had with bcp, but it was def. doing something.

Forgive me for not remembering -- are you one of my fellow cysters? (have pcos?) I know there are several of us on this board. I do really believe that doing the progesterone cream for a few months REALLY helped my body get back on track. The irritability was def. noticable to me, though -- so I stopped it, but the benefits remained. Your mileage will vary, of course -- but, you know, bring it up with your doc and see what he/she says -- you have nothing to lose!
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Old 06-05-2013, 03:28 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deen73 View Post
Hi, all! I haven't been around the board much lately, but I am still JUDDD'ing and reading every day. Just too lazy to post, apparently.

I finally had my appointment at the Tarpon Springs "Vital Well-Being Center" yesterday for my consult of bioidentical hormone replacement therapy. .
So off topic, but I didn't know you were from Tarpon Springs?! That is where I grew up!!! I haven't lived there in 20 years, but the family is all down that way and so are most of my friends!
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Old 06-05-2013, 06:38 PM   #21
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Oh, how cool, Andy!! I actually live more over in the Lutz area but I drive to Tarpon to go to this clinic (and the beach of course! ) I wish I lived there, though -- I LOVE it. The town is so cool, the beaches and parks are awesome -- and, omg, the FOOD. Wow -- I don't think I've ever had a bad meal there. If you like Greek food (and who doesn't?) -- it is heaven.
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Old 06-05-2013, 07:55 PM   #22
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If ou are thinking of going on hgh you might enjoy reading this thread....
http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/hc...mmas-plan.html
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Old 06-06-2013, 07:50 AM   #23
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Quote:
Forgive me for not remembering -- are you one of my fellow cysters? (have pcos?) I know there are several of us on this board. I do really believe that doing the progesterone cream for a few months REALLY helped my body get back on track. The irritability was def. noticable to me, though -- so I stopped it, but the benefits remained. Your mileage will vary, of course -- but, you know, bring it up with your doc and see what he/she says -- you have nothing to lose!
Thank you for all this info Deen. I am a fellow cyster.

I saw my gyn today (a new one), and she was fairly dismissive of progsterone creams, said they didn't work. Which I expected, as most doctors are dismissive of things that don't come straight from pharmaceutical companies. She looked over the results of my hormone test though and seemed to think my numbers were completely normal and that the reason I've started having periods more often is because I'm ovulating. So she said my options to regulate things are to either go back on bcp or start on progesterone pills. Which I don't think I'd do, because everything I've read indicates it's better to take a cream than a pill.

Since I don't have any desire to get pregnant anytime soon, I think I might just go back on the pill, but a different version this time. She also gave me a vaginal sonogram and I didn't have any cysts, so at least things are okay for right now.

Deen have you tried Vitex? I've heard it's also helpful in regulating hormones, and I was thinking of trying it even if I am on the pill.
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Old 06-06-2013, 01:14 PM   #24
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Seabreezes -- thanks, I checked out that thread. Wow -- quite a bit of info there! Did you do the 500 or 800 calorie hcg plan? Regular (150iu) dosing, or Dr. Emma's increasing doses? Just curious -- I am such a noob at hcg. I believe my doc does the traditional plan, but allows up to 700 cal.

DeeDee -- I'm not too surprised that your gyn dismissed the progesterone cream -- I agree, they do seem to automatically discount anything that's not a scrip. I am pretty surprised to hear her say that you're getting the periods more often because you're ovulating. I mean, most women not on bcp ovulate every month and get one period, right? Weird. But, then, she's the doc, so what do I know? For what it's worth, my obgyn also dismissed bioidenticals -- just saying they're not proven and I'm ovulating, so I don't need them.

I have tried the Vitex! I have some right now -- I can't honestly give or not give my recommendation, though, as i've never actually taken it consistently. I'm pretty bad about getting supplements and then sort of forgetting about them. Trying to work on that -- lol. I think it couldn't hurt, and I've only heard two outcomes with the chasteberry -- either it helps, or it doesn't do anything (no real negative stuff over at soulcysters about it, unless I've missed it). Honestly, for me, I think what helped balance me out was simply getting off the pill for a while. However, my good friend is off and is having period issues similar to yours -- so obviously, I would never say -- just stay off the pill and everything will be great. Unfortunately, it's a different solution for everyone. :/ Good luck!

Pretty disappointed, btw - was supposed to have my first hcg appointment today and they called and cancelled because the doc has the flu! bummer.
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Old 06-06-2013, 01:28 PM   #25
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Pretty disappointed, btw - was supposed to have my first hcg appointment today and they called and cancelled because the doc has the flu! bummer.
That is a bummer, I hope you get to reschedule soon! I've been reading some of the HCG boards (just out of curiosity, and because people on that plan have incredible losses so it's fun to read up on it) and some people do self-injections. Is that something you could do, or do you need to see a doctor to get the hcg itself?

Yeah Deen, I was surprised to hear her say I may be ovulating more. She wasn't at all sure, but she said most women with PCOS tend to not get a period at all, and since my sonogram and hormones all looked normal, she thought my body might be regulating itself after so many years of not ovulating and now is ovulating all the more. She also said that since I'm on Metformin, and Metformin often helps women with PCOS ovulate, that it could be a result of that. Which is a little scary too, all those wasted eggs! I might need one of those someday This week the pain has just been unbearable for me, and so far it's all still PMS as the TOM hasn't actually begun. But I'm definitely going to keep progesterone cream in mind for the future.

Is the Vitex you take drops or is it a pill? Whole Foods has both but I'm not sure which is more effective to take.

Last edited by deedee; 06-06-2013 at 01:36 PM..
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Old 06-06-2013, 01:29 PM   #26
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Hi DEEN, I would fire them and get a new doc!

I'm pretty biased about hormone therapy, even bioidentical. The first thing they wanted to know when I was diagnosed with BC is if I had taken hormones (even BCP or bioidenti). I'm also a former Cycster. Don't take my word for it but if you have PCOS, I think you have a higher risk of a hormone positive breast cancer (from memory which isn't so hot these days).

I would look at doing anything I could to avoid taking hormones with PCOS. Hugs and I hope you get all the tests you need!

The thing to remember with these bio-identi docs is that you buy into their premise and you become one of their cash cows -- an annuity if you will because not only do they now see you 6 times a year but they get to sell you "stuff" and often things like supplements and they get a cut of the labs, etc. Maybe even a referral gift from the compounder, who knows...I believe much of it is a racket. I've been there done that and they only made me sicker. Sorry to rain on your parade but I wish we had more awareness about the potential danger of this stuff especially if you have breast cancer risks in your family in addition to PCOS.
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Old 06-06-2013, 01:33 PM   #27
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Deen I have tried Vitex in the past and can't really tell if it was working or not. I stopped taking it after few months because I started spotting between cycles (brown blood, sorry if TMI). I thought at that time it was vitex but I think it actually it was polyps on uterus that were causing it. I got the polyps removed recently. I think I will try to the vitex again. From what I read it really takes few good months for it to start working. I am also dealing with hormonal issues and I am looking for a doctor who deals with bio available hormones. It is not easy to find a good one. My regular OBGYN can't help me beyond prescribing BCP, which I don't want to take. I know that hormones are very tricky business to treat but you would think that in this day and age there would be more options for us.
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Old 06-06-2013, 02:44 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Deen73 View Post
Omg, I'm so glad to read your post! YES -- I've been stuck at this weight (hovering around 230) for the past year -- before that, it was more like 245. I started eating a more Paleo diet and took off 15 pounds over a few months, but no more would budge. I see your high weight was exactly what mine is now! Must be a sign -- lol. I've tried hcg once before, but I stupidly tried to do a round right before a trip to nyc -- and only for 10 days. Obviously, I did not understand the protocol very well -- that will not be the case this time. I SO feel what you are saying -- I've had it in my head all these years that balancing the hormones (and treating possible thyroid issues) was going to be the key to my weight loss -- but now I'm just not sure. I've also read that hcg can be very helpful in, not so much balancing your hormones, per se, but helping the body self-balance, if that makes any sense? I'm so glad we started talking about this! I really feel like I want to give the hcg a REAL try before becoming dependent on hormone supplementation. Let me ask you -- what type of hcg did you use -- drops, shots, homeopathic? My doc offers drops and shots -- I have no idea which to choose! (also, I know this isn't the board for it -- but any tips are more than welcome -- I'm kind of nervous. I'm good at doing 500 cal. DD's -- but 40 in a row? yikes :/ )
Just fyi, I'm a veteran hCG'er who also has all kinds of thyroid, adrenal and s3x hormone issues. I balanced my hormones about 3 years before hCG but it never helped me get the weight off. HCG helped me drop about 70 pounds. I used both homeopathic and rx, drops, pellets and shots. The shots are the easiest IMHO because it's only a tiny prick once per day. You can't even really feel it. Just as an aside, you can order your own saliva tests over the internet and mail them to the analysis lab, if you suspect adrenal fatigue. And frankly it's MUCH cheaper than the figure you quoted. You might want to check out the STTM facebook page and the STTM Adrenals FB page as well as eaware. They all have great info on where and how to get testing. You can PM me if you have any other questions too. Good luck!
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Old 06-06-2013, 04:58 PM   #29
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Pooticus -- I know, the prospect of adding hormones is scary for that reason. Luckily I do not have a family history of BC, BUT, if I can live without them, I'm going to live without them. Also not crazy about adding that cost, which seems to never end.

DeeDee -- hope you have great luck with your new pills. Let me know if you do the progesterone cream and what if any changes you notice. I'm not doing it right now, but if I start I'll post it here.

tobelowcarber -- thanks for sharing your experiences with the Vitex. I didn't notice any effects myself, but, like I said, I never really took it consistently enough. I think if someone had a mild case of pcos, something like using the vitex, progesterone cream and possibly drinking soy milk every day (for the phytoestrogens) could be effective. I plan to start experimenting with all that once I get more of this weight off.

Shelbyla -- hi, there! I feel like I already know you because I've read so many of your posts over on the hcg forums! I am really excited to start -- I did it once before (only for a week) and lost a pound a day -- I just really feel like I am in the right headspace and this is going to WORK. I am still trying to decide between RX injections or drops (and preference?) and what did you do for your pre-hcg cleanse?
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Old 06-06-2013, 08:35 PM   #30
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I have not done hgh, but was following the progress of one of the posters. JUDDD has been great for me so not looking at anything else at the moment. I thought you might enjoy the posts was why I mentioned it.

Hope you get everything sorted out.
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