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Kaos0100 04-28-2013 07:07 AM

Help..UD Calorie Experiment Not Going Well
 
After experiencing a stall at 500/1800, I decided to try using the calories given by the JUDDD calculator, 500/2286. I started eating up to these calories this past Monday, and as you can see below, it seemed to start off well, but after a few days, not so much. HUGE gains after both a DD and an UD.

4/22/13 - 269.4 - UD
4/23/13 - 269.0 - DD
4/24/13 - 266.4 - UD
4/25/13 - 267.8 - DD
4/26/13 - 266.4 - UD
4/27/13 - 269.2 - DD
4/28/13 - 272.4 - UD

Does it take a while for the body to adjust to new calories or is this UD calorie amount just way too much for my body? Am I retaining water? What to do now? What would cause the losses at first and then these huge gains?

I'm so discouraged right now I don't even know what to think or do. Do I continue on and see if changes and starts working or try something else?

Sorry for the lame thread title.

Yennie 04-28-2013 08:07 AM

Hi Karen,
There are several things that might be going on, but I can tell you for sure, if you're accurately counting calories (which I'm going to assume you are since we're all calorie counting experts! :) ) you are not gaining FAT! 1 pound of fat = 3500 calories so unless you ate 8000+ calories in 1 day, it is physiologically impossible to gain 2+ pounds in fat overnight.
I can't tell from your post how long you've been JUDDDing or how long you've been stalled but there are a few things our successful veterans always say: 1) don't make any tweaks for the first 4 weeks - even if you're not losing and, 2) a stall = 3 weeks of no losses. Both statements have to do with the healing being accomplished by the SIRTs - sometimes your body has other things to do aside from weight loss and there is likely a lot of healing and clearing up of inflammation going on during those periods of non-weight loss.
So since its not fat its likely water/fluid from retention or inflammation. There is a great thread called "Why the scale can lie" or something similar - search it out. One of the things we know is that as fat cells lose their contents (fat) they will fill up with water to retain their mass & shape before totally giving up the ghost and being eliminated completely. So this means your weight is going to fluctuate and this water retention masks fat loss on the scale. Also, depending on your particular physiology, you could be getting too much salt or not enough salt and this can cause water retention. Finally, the body needs water to flush fat so if you're not drinking enough water you're body is going to hold on to any water you do drink and cause a gain on the scale.
There is another thread about drinking lemon water - read that one too.
You could be due for a whoosh soon - stick with it!

Carly 04-28-2013 08:08 AM

What does the calculator give you for DDs at 20% WLM?
Maybe it's time to drop DDs?

Kaos0100 04-28-2013 08:24 AM

Yennie:

I've been JUDDDing since June 25 of last year. I do count calories..every bite that goes into my mouth. I posted about a week ago that I was stalled and needed to change something. I had lowered my UD calories from what the calculator gave me to 1800 to see what happened. I went on to lose a significant amount of weight doing that. Then the stall. So in the name of shaking things up, I decided to go back to what the calculator gave me. The weight increase is a result of that experiment. For the first few days, my weight was going down, so I thought "hey, it's working". Then the massive gain happened.

Carly: The calculator gives me 457 for DD's. Most days I don't even reach the 500 calorie mark. DD's are very hard for me, even at 500. I seem to be starving on those days and it doesn't seem to be getting any better, even after nearly a year on JUDDD.

Thanks for your responses and advice.

Yennie 04-28-2013 09:07 AM

Hi Karen,
I see how your stats and timeline in your details - sorry, apparently I can't read this early in the morning without coffee. (I'm on the west coast.)
First, congrats on the weight you have lost - that's phenomenal! You should be very proud of yourself. Has it all been on JUDDD?
I read over on the Stillman's board that there are people who say that you need 4 days at maintenance for every pound you lose for your body to accept that as your new set point. So you lose 10#, you need to keep that new weight for 40 days before your body starts to accept it, and will stop fighting you to put the weight back on. If I'm doing my math right and continue at my current trend, I will have to diligently maintain for 2-3x longer than it will take me to lose all the weight I want to lose.
I use me as an example because I know my numbers - not trying to make this about me. But I'm wondering if you've reached a point where your body just needs to regroup. I get it - stalls suck. Especially when you are so diligently counting every. single. bite!!
I guess I don't have more to offer than I already have, except to say that you should keep in mind the amazing progress you've already made and give yourself time to regroup and gather for big losses to come.
Oh, also, I guess I did have one more thing - when you upped your calories, did you do it with anything new? Like adding coconut oil/butter, extra fats, something new & different that might cause you to inflame or retain water? I know when I am doing potato days, if I reintroduce fats too quickly or too much, I get bloated like you would not believe and have even seen a 4# bounce in 1 day that took a week to dump. That sucked.

Whitlin' 04-28-2013 09:23 AM

Karen, I stared at the numbers/days for a while and yes, I'm thinking you've hit the nail on the head in your 2nd paragraph with the retaining water idea. Were the last few days high sodium days at all, or did you have white flour at a level you haven't usually had? Such a fast change says water to me.

I have seen some infuriating gains with retained water and been able to look back and see the possibilities with white flour, especially, but also with any sodium-rich foods. Sometimes I just knew it hadn't been that bad, but sure enough the gain "washed away" with changing diet back (and drinking plenty of water).

You really did seem to have a few good days there. It looks like you definitely had a plan and then ... poof! So sorry, but no matter what, it's temporary.

Kaos0100 04-28-2013 09:29 AM

Yennie - thank you so much for your responses. I am very happy about my losses so far. It is actually nothing short of a miracle that I have stuck with it as long as I have considering how many times I've stalled/stopped losing. If I had been doing this on low carb, I would've quit long ago. I actually lost only 20 pounds on low carb and that took me 3 months. I then switched to JUDDD.

When I upped my calories, I naturally added in some different foods I couldn't have on 1800 per day. I added some nuts...a few days I had some chips with my lunch sandwich (weighed/measured and counted, of course). I added in some extra fruit.

Kaos0100 04-28-2013 09:34 AM

Thank you Whitlin'. I always look so forward to your posts. Maybe it is water retention. I have noticed that I have been more thirsty (thirstier?) than usual these last few days.

It is hard to pinpoint whether it's extra salt or some other thing that I added in that could have caused the water retention.

I will drink, drink, drink today. And I'm sure the scale will go up again tomorrow. Not looking forward to that.

calichris 04-28-2013 10:34 AM

I think your daily weight numbers look good except for today's, which makes me agree with everyone that it's got to be water retention, and I think the salty foods (chips, nuts) could easily be the culprit. You might not have had as many of those bounces on 1800 calories as you can when you raise them, but sometimes when you raise your UD calories, it can become easier to lower your DD calories. Have you tried the pterostilbene? That seems to help some people too (I take 2 50 mg on DDs). I think give it a few days before you worry about this one wacky weight. :hugs:

Kaos0100 04-28-2013 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calichris (Post 16398198)
I think your daily weight numbers look good except for today's, which makes me agree with everyone that it's got to be water retention, and I think the salty foods (chips, nuts) could easily be the culprit. You might not have had as many of those bounces on 1800 calories as you can when you raise them, but sometimes when you raise your UD calories, it can become easier to lower your DD calories. Have you tried the pterostilbene? That seems to help some people too (I take 2 50 mg on DDs). I think give it a few days before you worry about this one wacky weight. :hugs:

I have not tried the pterostilbene but I will look into it.

Carly 04-28-2013 01:05 PM

I don't eat nuts frequently, but I had 5 or 6 cashews two days ago and I've been bloated and my digestive tract has not been good either. I think nuts really have a bad effect on me. I was just posting that to someone else yesterday who was concerned with bloating and had eaten nuts.

tofucheez 04-28-2013 04:37 PM

Karen-

I have no advice to offer...but HOLY COW you should be proud of yourself!

And Yennie's point that maybe your body just needs a bit of time to regroup after such a huge change makes a lot of sense to me. Just be nice to yourself (body AND mind) and the losses will come again. It could be that your bod just needs a little break.

SlowSure 04-28-2013 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaos0100 (Post 16398115)
When I upped my calories, I naturally added in some different foods I couldn't have on 1800 per day. I added some nuts...a few days I had some chips with my lunch sandwich (weighed/measured and counted, of course). I added in some extra fruit.

As per other commenters, I take my hat off to you for your perseverance and achievements.

As for possible sources of water gain, I don't know if it's possible that the extra dose of fructans, galactans etc in the nuts and fruit that you ate may well have disrupted your post-small intestine GI tract enough to be grabbing on to this water?

Eg, pistachios, cashews, almonds and hazelnuts are known to cause some problems for people who are FODMAPS sensitive (this is a fairly recent research release so older sources of information about FODMAPs don't have this updated information about nuts).

Similarly, depending on the fruit, there may be polyols or other saccharides that are problematic if you've been limiting them for a while.

Sorry for the length of this and it might not be relevant to you.

LoCarbGal 04-28-2013 05:50 PM

Karen, you've got some good answers here, and I would have to agree that it could be the nuts/salt. It may be worth staying at these new numbers for another week or so to see if you stabilize and begin losing again.

You are so impressive. Your losses are inspiring and your perseverance amazing. Keep it up, and don't let one wonky week throw you!:hugs:

Yennie 04-28-2013 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoCarbGal (Post 16398737)
You are so impressive. Your losses are inspiring and your perseverance amazing. Keep it up, and don't let one wonky week throw you!:hugs:

:goodpost: Yes! THIS!!!!!


I was so guilty of this in the past - one bad day and throw away weeks of progress. You hang in there girlfriend!!! Give it time for your body to sort it out, and drop the water (because I'm sure that's what it is!) and don't lose hope!

Strawberry 04-28-2013 10:47 PM

Sooo... your weight ranged between 266 to 272?

Is my body the only crazy one... because when I'm maintaining I pretty much fluctuate around a 5 lb range like that each day. Its just water weight, whether I had a BM or not, actual volume of food eaten, how hydrated I am, time of month, etc.

I mean, I understand you aren't clearly losing ... but I wouldnt call that "huge gains" either...

Kaos0100 04-29-2013 04:39 AM

Thank you all so much for your responses and encouragement.

My weight this morning was 274.4, up from 272.4 yesterday. Yesterday was an UD and I also had much, much more water than I'm used to.

Strawberry: My weight NEVER fluctuates that much from a DD to an UD. So 6 pounds is huge for me.

I'm going to continue on with this calorie amount on UDs, start getting in much more water and see what happens.

Sirtain 04-29-2013 08:38 AM

Karen, I don't see your age mentioned, so I don't know if this is relevant, but as I lost weight, and got healthier, my cycle changed to the point that I started having monthly symptoms that I had either never had before, or hadn't noticed because of my underlying overweight and health issues. Now I can see that I get bloated and get tender breasts every month, whereas previously, it wasn't apparent. Perhaps your weight loss has put you into a range that your body considers great for fertility, and is ramping up hormonal changes.

Otherwise/in addition, I also agree that it seems like water retention, and that one week is not long enough to see how it is affecting you. If you can bear the weight fluctuations for a little bit, I would continue on with your new levels to see how they work long-term (or at least medium-term).

Hang in there! You've obviously go the chops for a long-term commitment. Congratulations on all you have done so far.

Kaos0100 04-29-2013 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirtain (Post 16399474)
Karen, I don't see your age mentioned, so I don't know if this is relevant, but as I lost weight, and got healthier, my cycle changed to the point that I started having monthly symptoms that I had either never had before, or hadn't noticed because of my underlying overweight and health issues. Now I can see that I get bloated and get tender breasts every month, whereas previously, it wasn't apparent. Perhaps your weight loss has put you into a range that your body considers great for fertility, and is ramping up hormonal changes.

Otherwise/in addition, I also agree that it seems like water retention, and that one week is not long enough to see how it is affecting you. If you can bear the weight fluctuations for a little bit, I would continue on with your new levels to see how they work long-term (or at least medium-term).

Hang in there! You've obviously go the chops for a long-term commitment. Congratulations on all you have done so far.

Sirtain, I am 45, but I don't have issues with monthly water retention or anything of that nature.

Kaos0100 05-02-2013 06:18 AM

So, today's weight is 269. Sunday I started really pushing the water and have been doing so since. Monday's weight jumped up to 274. That wasn't unexpected with the extra water but still a shock and disappointment.

So I'm back to the perpetual 269. I've bounced around that weight for so long, I'm no longer surprised to see it on the scale. It looks like the huge jump in weight was water retention since it started coming off after increasing my water intake. The only question now is: Can I lose on 2300 calories a day?

Yennie 05-02-2013 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaos0100 (Post 16404946)
The only question now is: Can I lose on 2300 calories a day?

Well but it isn't 2300 per day, right? Your numbers average to 1400 per day. That's assuming a 500 cal DD, your average would be lower if your DDs are lower. For your current point, 1400 is a very reasonable place to be for weight loss, IMO.
I think its going to take a bit of time for your body to adjust to the new levels so I'd say continue to chug the water (add lemon!) and give yourself permission to not weigh for a few days to a week (or weigh but don't let the number fuss your progress).
You will continue to rock this! :sing:

Kaos0100 05-02-2013 07:36 AM

Thank you Yennie. Yes, I meant 2300 every other day.

I am adding lemon to my water. I don't much like it, but I'm doing it. Never been a lemon water fan, but hey, if it works, I'll work it.

I will try not to weigh for a few days but it's really hard not to.

Librarygirl 05-02-2013 04:14 PM

Kaos, I am losing uber slowly too. I feel your pain. However, all my clothes are loose and I've gone down two pants sizes, and about 3 shirt sizes. Everyone is noticing, so even though I'm a bit discouraged when I see people having lost two to three times what I have in less time (than I have been JUDDDing), I continue to carry the torch. ;) After all, the ultimate goal is getting to THE goal, and the time's gonna pass anyway, right? :) Hang in there!!!:console: (you have full permission to remind me of this post when I start complaining again)


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