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Old 04-25-2013, 09:29 PM   #1
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Calorie averages

Ok so I had my first DD. I made it! Question, my DD number is 450, my UD number is 2230. I averaged the two and got 1350 or so. I think that number is relatively high for weight loss. I want to average 1100 calories..Ok I want to lower either day to make this average lower to speed up weight loss. Am I totally missing the boat on this? Meaning, is my rationalization wrong about calories? Is that as good move? Thanx in advance!

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Old 04-25-2013, 09:34 PM   #2
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You're not wrong to average your calories but I don't think 1350 is too high for weight loss. The average recommendation for women to lose weight is 11-1400 calories per day. So you're between that, the calculator is accounting for your current starting place and the swing will give you the health benefits.
As we always tell people, give JUDDD a good 4 weeks as is before you start tweaking. If you want to lower your DDs then that's fine but I would not lower your UDs - you need the swing. And the calculator is taking that swing into account.
Congratulations on making it through your first down day.
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Old 04-25-2013, 09:38 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yennie View Post
You're not wrong to average your calories but I think 1350 isn't too high for weight loss. The average recommendation for women to lose weight is 11-1400 calories per day. So you're between that, the calculator is accounting for your current starting place and the swing will give you the health benefits.
As we always tell people, give JUDDD a good 4 weeks as is before you start tweaking. If you want to lower your DDs then that's fine but I would not lower your UDs - you need the swing. And the calculator is taking that swing into account.
Congratulations on making it through your first down day.
Thank you! Throughout the day I kept talking myself out of it, saying, just do low carb. It's easier. But I got through it.
I've seen some with crazy low dd numbers. Does that mean that they need lower calories to maintain?
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Old 04-25-2013, 09:58 PM   #4
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If your first down day was hard, just know that they get easier ... a lot easier! That's why you see very low down day calories ... because it can sometimes be easy to do and won't hurt you to eat 0 calories every other day if you want to. I agree with Yennie. You don't want to decrease your up day calories too low early in your weight loss journey ... it can mess with your metabolism. I know many a person has seen their losses slow/stall when they drop their up day calories too low.

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Old 04-25-2013, 09:59 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by SchoolPsych1979 View Post
Thank you! Throughout the day I kept talking myself out of it, saying, just do low carb. It's easier. But I got through it.
I've seen some with crazy low dd numbers. Does that mean that they need lower calories to maintain?
No, if anything you can (in theory) raise your calories in maintenance. The reason for the lower DDs is that some of us find that eating on DDs unleashes the crazy binge monster. So there is a lot of fasting or liquid fasting until dinner or a bed time snack because its easier to hold out until you start eating. Then its harder to resist. Kinda like putting off that first bathroom trip in the bar back in college... What? I never went to the bar in college...

Also, Dr Johnson really would have preferred that people fast completely on the DDs, so its ok to go under the 500 or even under what the calculator says. He just didn't think people could handle a complete fast, or even some of the lower calculated DD numbers so he picked 500 as a starting point with the goal to work down to lower and lower numbers.

Also, one way to help get through is to find the most nutrient dense, calorically "light" foods out there. For example, you can eat a LOT of broccoli for only 50 calories. Add a bit of lean protein and you've got a great dinner. One of my fave DD meals when I'm not doing the potato thing is to take a skillet of the Costco frozen stir fry veggies, weigh them out and use about 150 calories worth (that's a lot of volume), throw in a bag of the tofu shiratake noodles and a sliced up chicken breast. The whole skillet is actually under 450 calories and it feeds my entire family of 3. I might cook up some egg rolls for the boys to supplement but we don't always need them.
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Old 04-25-2013, 10:22 PM   #6
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Quote:
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If your first down day was hard, just know that they get easier ... a lot easier! That's why you see very low down day calories ... because it can sometimes be easy to do and won't hurt you to eat 0 calories every other day if you want to. I agree with Yennie. You don't want to decrease your up day calories too low early in your weight loss journey ... it can mess with your metabolism. I know many a person has seen their losses slow/stall when they drop their up day calories too low.
Oh man. My irrational brain kept talking myself out of this WOE all day. And I had to keep telling myself: no, give it a chance! Thanks for the input!
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Old 04-25-2013, 10:25 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yennie View Post
No, if anything you can (in theory) raise your calories in maintenance. The reason for the lower DDs is that some of us find that eating on DDs unleashes the crazy binge monster. So there is a lot of fasting or liquid fasting until dinner or a bed time snack because its easier to hold out until you start eating. Then its harder to resist. Kinda like putting off that first bathroom trip in the bar back in college... What? I never went to the bar in college...

Also, Dr Johnson really would have preferred that peoples fast completely on the DDs, so its ok to go under the 500 or even under what the calculator says. He just didn't think people could handle a complete fast, or even some of the lower calculated DD numbers so he picked 500 as a starting point with the goal to work down to lower and lower numbers.

Also, one way to help get through is to find the most nutrient dense, calorically "light" foods out there. For example, you can eat a LOT of broccoli for only 50 calories. Add a bit of lean protein and you've got a great dinner. One of my fave DD meals when I'm not doing the potato thing is to take a skillet of the Costco frozen stir fry veggies, weigh them out and use about 150 calories worth (that's a lot of volume), throw in a bag of the tofu shiratake noodles and a sliced up chicken breast. The whole skillet is actually under 450 calories and it feeds my entire family of 3. I might cook up some egg rolls for the boys to supplement but we don't always need them.
Thank you for that. I had a Coffee Bean blended drink this am only 90 calories but I think I'll make a conscious decision to "eat light and dense". Once I started drinking water however, my hunger would go away. Comes and goes in waves. I'm such an over eater, I forgot what hunger felt like.
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Old 04-25-2013, 10:28 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by SchoolPsych1979 View Post
I'm such an over eater, I forgot what hunger felt like.
You'll find a lot of us are in this boat, or were. I really feel like JUDDD helps us redefine our relationship with food.
And when you are hungry, remember the JUDDD mantra - Hunger is not an emergency!
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Old 04-25-2013, 10:33 PM   #9
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Quote:
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You'll find a lot of us are in this boat, or were. I really feel like JUDDD helps us redefine our relationship with food.
And when you are hungry, remember the JUDDD mantra - Hunger is not an emergency!
Yes! Even out with friends. If we are out on a social thing all day and we haven't eaten all day I have to stop our activity so that I can get something to eat while my friends are ok being hungry. I always think that I need TO EAT NOW. I haven't encountered a social situation on a DD. I'm nervous being with friends/family while on a DD and I don't want to keep switching DD a UD just bc there is a social situation..we'll see how it goes.

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Old 04-26-2013, 01:10 AM   #10
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I thought I'd share my experience with JUDDD, as I lost my final 100 lbs in 2 years on JUDDD--and still do some DDs in maintenance.

I came to JUDDD because due to age and medical conditions, I need to keep calories to <1000 to lose--I already knew that, and it was tough to eat at 900 cal on a daily basis. I also need to eat low carb because I am very carb sensitive, so I did JUDDD very low carb.

I used the calculator DD that was 430 when I started and then went down to 370 after I lost a bit. I set my UD calories to give me the average I needed and lost steadily at 400/1400. By the end of my loss, my UDs were closer to 1200, but this was due entirely to satisfaction at that calorie level because UDs should be close to a person's 'maintenance,' and mine is about 1100 cal. (I've been maintaining for 2 years.)

Because I'm hypothyroid, I have labs every 4 months, and my endo monitored my blood values (always did a complete panel) to see how I was faring. He loved this plan and wrote a detailed description of it in my chart.

At the time, I had an e-mail exchange with Dr. Johnson, who admitted that the UD calculator numbers were irrelevant and just a 'guess' for most people. He told me that if I already knew what my calorie level had to be to lose, it was fine to adjust my UD calories. It's the DD number that's significant.
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Old 04-26-2013, 07:47 AM   #11
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Thanks for sharing that Leo. How cool to have had an exchange with Dr Johnson. And very illuminating about the UD calories vs DD calories' importance.
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Old 04-26-2013, 08:49 AM   #12
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Wow, some sobering info here about down day numbers. Perhaps I should make a concerted effort to keep my calories to the recomended 433. It seems to be a mental thing with me, more than physical.

In the month I've been on JUDDD, I think there were only 2 days where I felt truly physically hungry on my DD -- and it was very fleeting. I just waited it out, and it passed within 10 minutes each time. Drinking a warm broth, decaf or green tea seemed to fill me.

I am not sure why eating below 500 "scares me" mentally. It has to do with the idea of scarcity, I suppose. It's funny, but I don't feel that way on up days. On up days sometimes I eat my total calories, and other days I eat way below because I'm not hungry, or not thinking of food like I do on downdays. The idea of scarcity is not an issue to me on UDs.

How weird is that?

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Old 04-26-2013, 10:25 AM   #13
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Wow, some sobering info here about down day numbers. Perhaps I should make a concerted effort to keep my calories to the recomended 433. It seems to be a mental thing with me, more than physical.

In the month I've been on JUDDD, I think there were only 2 days where I felt truly physically hungry on my DD -- and it was very fleeting. I just waited it out, and it passed within 10 minutes each time. Drinking a warm broth, decaf or green tea seemed to fill me.

I am not sure why eating below 500 "scares me" mentally. It has to do with the idea of scarcity, I suppose. It's funny, but I don't feel that way on up days. On up days sometimes I eat my total calories, and other days I eat way below because I'm not hungry, or not thinking of food like I do on downdays. The idea of scarcity is not an issue to me on UDs.

How weird is that?

Cyn

Not at all! If we only ate what we needed, when we were hungry, we wouldn't be here. In the past, all I needed to do was think about going on a diet to make me over-eat unhealthy things.

Today is an up day...i had a piece of cold chicken...I totally don't feel like eating, or cooking...just because I can...what contrarian creatures we "sentient" beings are.
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Old 04-26-2013, 11:04 AM   #14
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what contrarian creatures we "sentient" beings are.
Very good, grannysmith. You got to the very heart of how we feel about food.

L/Cyn
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Old 04-26-2013, 11:50 AM   #15
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I agree totally that the DD's get so much easier! I usually eat or drink around 150 cals on my DD's although on the calculator I am 'allowed' 341 cals. I find that I actually look forward to DD's now because I don't have to even think about food and when my stomach really starts rumbling I might have a hard boiled egg or I drink lemon water or hot tea. When the craving to eat does happen, which is really more mental than actual hunger I just tell myself you can have it tomorrow.

Good luck on this journey!
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Old 04-26-2013, 07:57 PM   #16
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I thought I'd share my experience with JUDDD, as I lost my final 100 lbs in 2 years on JUDDD--and still do some DDs in maintenance.

I came to JUDDD because due to age and medical conditions, I need to keep calories to <1000 to lose--I already knew that, and it was tough to eat at 900 cal on a daily basis. I also need to eat low carb because I am very carb sensitive, so I did JUDDD very low carb.

I used the calculator DD that was 430 when I started and then went down to 370 after I lost a bit. I set my UD calories to give me the average I needed and lost steadily at 400/1400. By the end of my loss, my UDs were closer to 1200, but this was due entirely to satisfaction at that calorie level because UDs should be close to a person's 'maintenance,' and mine is about 1100 cal. (I've been maintaining for 2 years.)

Because I'm hypothyroid, I have labs every 4 months, and my endo monitored my blood values (always did a complete panel) to see how I was faring. He loved this plan and wrote a detailed description of it in my chart.

At the time, I had an e-mail exchange with Dr. Johnson, who admitted that the UD calculator numbers were irrelevant and just a 'guess' for most people. He told me that if I already knew what my calorie level had to be to lose, it was fine to adjust my UD calories. It's the DD number that's significant.
1100 seems really low for maintenance. Is that based on the calculator or your particular situation? Congratulations on your successful weight loss and continued maintenance!
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Old 04-26-2013, 08:15 PM   #17
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1100 seems really low for maintenance. Is that based on the calculator or your particular situation? Congratulations on your successful weight loss and continued maintenance!
I agree that 1100 seems too low for maintenance. I guess I'd also have to respectfully disagree with the good doctor that UD numbers are irrelevant. Bearing in mind that I speak not at all from a place of personal experience but from reading about other's experiences, there have been too many stories of gals with perfect DDs and either consistently too low or too high UDs for me to believe that number doesn't matter. When these individuals get their UDs closer to their calculated value (either by raising or counting calories to be more under control) their stalls end.

I think that one of the lovely bits about JUDDD is that it can be tailored for each individuals desired food choices (low carb, vegetarian, PHD, etc) AND each individual's unique metabolism.

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Old 04-27-2013, 03:13 AM   #18
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Old 04-27-2013, 04:47 AM   #19
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My cals are also ridiculously low. When I read of others UD of around 2000 I am absolutely green with jelly!!! I would soooo love to be able to eat that much and not balloon up.
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Old 04-27-2013, 04:55 AM   #20
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My maintenance calorie level isn't related to any calculator--it's what I need to eat to neither lose nor gain--therefore "maintenance."

As to 'disagreeing' with Dr. J, I was referring solely to my own situation. I realized that the calculator UD numbers would never work for me--much too high. Keep in mind that I had already lost 140 lbs at that point, and I knew my body and it's issues quite well.

He told me that the DD was what's important, and that it was fine to adjust my UD calories to the average that I knew I needed to lose.

It was obviously good advice because I lost my last 100 lbs steadily doing JUDDD that way.

I think it's important for people to understand that the UD numbers are 'estimates,' based on very large populations and may not apply to everyone. If it works for you--that's fine. But no one should hesitate to 'tweak' their UD calorie level if the individual isn't losing.
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Old 04-27-2013, 07:17 AM   #21
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Old 04-27-2013, 04:49 PM   #22
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LCG... 110 pounds gone! Awesome!!!
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Old 04-27-2013, 05:10 PM   #23
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LCG... 110 pounds gone! Awesome!!!
I was just noticing that today as well!! So incredibly close to one-derland!!!

It must have been awesome to keep refreshing that dang ticker!!! About time, darn scale!
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Old 04-28-2013, 06:25 PM   #24
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LCG... 110 pounds gone! Awesome!!!
Quote:
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I was just noticing that today as well!! So incredibly close to one-derland!!!

It must have been awesome to keep refreshing that dang ticker!!! About time, darn scale!
Thanks sweet friends! Yes, I was getting pretty darn annoyed with that scale, but we're best buds this week!
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