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Mamatomany 03-22-2013 04:02 AM

Juicing
 
I love juice fasting and was hoping to incorporate this into a few down days. Does anyone have some good information on calories? I have found that yes, a green pepper has x amount of calories if eaten whole, but what about just the juice of said pepper? A whole apple has 80 but certainly with no fiber in it ... you would think it would be less? Having a hard time with information. Thank you for your time.

Librarygirl 03-22-2013 04:31 AM

This is what I read and it seems like it would be accurate. Of course you would first need the calorie content of the vegs whole (from Livestrong):

Multiply the grams of fiber by four because every gram of fiber has four calories in it. Subtract the amount of fiber calories from the total calories of each ingredient when using an extractor because the extractor pulls out the fiber-filled pulp content. Add the fiber calories to the caloriehttp://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/icon1.png count if you are using a citrus juicer because fiber-filled pulp is not removed.

This is what I take from it: For example, if an apple is 80 calories with 3 g of fiber, then you would subtract 12 cals from the total, making it 68 calories juiced. Hope that helps! :)

SlowSure 03-22-2013 04:46 AM

It's not straightforward but if you Google

Nutrition calculations Juice Feasting

then you should find a reasonable guide as to how to calculate the calories (much will depend on how much is extracted by your juicer).

Librarygirl 03-22-2013 06:16 AM

Did I not explain it right? Just wondering. :)

SlowSure 03-22-2013 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Librarygirl (Post 16329867)
Did I not explain it right? Just wondering. :)

If that's to me - you explained it really well but I didn't see it because I was looking elsewhere and already had the reply window open (IYSWIM).

ravenrose 03-22-2013 09:06 AM

fiber is more complicated than that. fiber comes in two types. the more common, insoluble fiber, actually has no calories. often/usually these calories have ALREADY been subtracted from the calorie count of the item.

it's hard to know how much of the fiber might be soluble...

in general, it's pretty true and much safer just to count all the calories and carbs even though you have juiced the thing.

I do wonder WHY though. the fiber is the healthiest part. by juicing you make the carbs much more quickly available and they shoot your blood sugar up faster, getting you to produce more insulin. and not producing insulin is the main point of low carbing.

good luck

piratejenny 03-22-2013 10:01 AM

(ravenrose, a lot of JUDDDers aren't low-carb.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mamatomany (Post 16329681)
A whole apple has 80 but certainly with no fiber in it ... you would think it would be less?

No, because the fiber doesn't have calories anyway.
By juicing, you're removing the cellulose, which humans can't digest.

In other words, all the calories are in the juice of the fruit, whether you eat the whole fruit or remove the fiber and drink the juice.

However, no juicer removes 100% of the moisture from the pulp...so you're taking out some of the calories anyway. But I have no idea how to calculate that. If you Google individual fruit/veggie juice calories (like "celery juice calories" or "kale juice calories") there is scattered info.

(I'm really not pro-juicing unless a person is too ill to chew their food, or needs therapeutic amounts of veggies...but you're not asking about that, right? :p You already like juicing, so go for it...juice may not be as satisfying on a DD as eating those same veggies, unless you are used to fasting.)

Librarygirl 03-23-2013 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ravenrose (Post 16330228)
fiber is more complicated than that. fiber comes in two types. the more common, insoluble fiber, actually has no calories. often/usually these calories have ALREADY been subtracted from the calorie count of the item.

it's hard to know how much of the fiber might be soluble...

in general, it's pretty true and much safer just to count all the calories and carbs even though you have juiced the thing.

I do wonder WHY though. the fiber is the healthiest part. by juicing you make the carbs much more quickly available and they shoot your blood sugar up faster, getting you to produce more insulin. and not producing insulin is the main point of low carbing.

good luck

I think juicing might be beneficial for athletes when needing extra insulin for short periods of intense running/workouts?:dunno: Otherwise, I don't see the point of removing fiber either.:confused:

mojocat 03-23-2013 10:15 AM

Juicing is wonderful. It is how I lost a massive amount of weight in the first place...and kept it off. The weight melted off faster than HCG even. Then a part from my very expensive juicer/masticater was thrown out in trash and as they don't make this machine anymore ( it sat in my cupboard for years beforehand) and rendered the machine useless :cry: It was then I found other ways to continue dieting which is how I ended up here..and so on.

It cured me of a lot of health issues, got me off sugar and salt, and changed my whole attitude to food. I was drinking veg/fruit juice only and absolutely no protein or fat. You would think it would have sent me into a hypo fructose high but no, I felt wonderful. Was quite addictive because after a few days you go into a different kind of headspace. I hope one day to get a new juicer and go back to juicing to get back my food perspective. It was all the calorie restriction that came after that messed me up. Please don't think off juicing as a bad thing. Many people think JUDDD is bad as well; but we know it's not and I know juicing is a-m-a-z-i-n-g.

Anyway, when I can afford a new juicer (because I want a good one that masticates the food and keeps the goodness in) I will be juicing on DD's and I probaby won't count calories - say celery, kale, cucumber, squeeze of lemon, ginger and then 1 or 2 green apples for sweetness. I mean it doesn't even get digested, those enzymes go through your body immediately.

Librarygirl 03-23-2013 10:37 AM

Really, though, isn't it just starving the body? I know we do it eod on JUDDD, but long term every day drinking only juices, which you say aren't even digested...it sounds like you *would* lose massive amounts of weight, but I can't imagine how you could do that long-term, soley juicing. Yes I can see where going back to solid foods, AND counting calories, could throw a wrench in the plan. :)

mojocat 03-23-2013 11:07 AM

No it's not starving the body, whilst it's called a juice fast you can actually drink as much juice as you can. However, if using for a DD only then you would have to have some calorie restriction. I was on the juice "fast" for 3 weeks and I assure you I was not starving. I have never felt better in my life. If I had starved, then my metabolism would have been slower and I would have regained or struggled to lose. As I said I did not regain the weight and continued to lose another 50lbs using other methods. Please don't insinuate that I am some stupid person who doesn't understand nutrition and "starves" herself.

mojocat 03-23-2013 11:09 AM

Yes there is no digestion involved because the enzymes get assimiliated into the body immediately, therefore the digestion gets a rest and the body is free to repair itself. Which is why a lot of people experience healing from it.

LoCarbGal 03-23-2013 11:13 AM

I'm not sure I could ever do a juice fast (I'm a protein gal) but the fact that you felt so great doing it is really tempting! I wish I had a juicing machine. I think my mom would really love doing it - she's much more produce oriented than I am. I'll mention it to her - thanks!

mojocat 03-23-2013 11:23 AM

Lo-carb Girl I was also a protein girl and never a veggie type and I'm still not a veggie type. But I was fat and had health problems relating to being fat and needed a kick in the bottom to do something. I initially only planned a weekend, then it became 5 days, then a week, then a fortnight and so on until I had been on it for 3 weeks. If you can get hold of the DVD "Fat, Sick and Nearly Dead" I'm sure your mum would love it.

LoCarbGal 03-23-2013 11:25 AM

Oh good to know! Maybe I should try it. If Mom wants to go in on a juicer with me, it may be a good option. I love having different things to try to kick start metabolism and gain new health (potato hack, low carb, JUDDD, now juicing).

mojocat 03-23-2013 11:39 AM

You don't need the slow juicing masticator, that is just my OCD, and if you get hold of the DVD you will see they used the normal ones. The guy spruiking it is Joe Cross a wealthy busy stockbroker type who was overweight with a rare auto-immune disease and based the juicing on the "reboot" diet. He lost a heap of weight, came off his meds and then was so passionate about it that he wanted people to try it. In his travels he came across Phil the truck driver,who had the same rare auto-immune disease, who also jumped onboard, lost weight and lost the disease. It's a great DVD. Incidentally Joe Cross when not juicing is reportedly paleo.

Librarygirl 03-23-2013 12:08 PM

I wasn't insinuating that you are a "stupid person who doesn't understand nutrition" mojocat. I'm sorry if it sounded that way.

Mamatomany 03-23-2013 01:11 PM

I love juicing/fasting with mostly vegetables. It is raw nutrition, gives your gutt a break, allows your body to detoxify, but you have to support your liver while doing this. I have donea 30 day fast with drinking 3 juices a day. I think protein is important tho! I also do 10 day fasts and it is amazing how much better you feel. Don Colbert has an excellent book on fasting that I would recomend for anyone interested. there is great recipes in there and it really explains the full benefits of juice fasting vs. water only fasting.

mojocat 03-23-2013 01:40 PM

Thank you Library Girl and I'm sorry as well. How could I get annoyed with a pair of bunny wabbits? I'm just passionate about juicing and how it was the catalyst that changed my health. It has made me nostalgic to get back onto it even for just a few days to detox.

piratejenny 03-23-2013 02:52 PM

Vegetables actually have a surprising amount of protein, if you look them up per lb or per 100 calories. As a side dish, you might not get a significant amount of protein, but of course if you're juicing or eating a raw diet you'll be getting a few pounds of veggies a day. :)

for example--
1lb broccoli = 154 calories,12.8 g protein
2 large eggs = 154 calories, 12.5 g protein
1lb spinach = 100 calories, 13 g protein

When I juice, I use greens (kale, broccoli, spinach, parsley) and celery.
I'd use cucumbers (juicy & delicious), but I'm allergic to them! :(
I don't use beets, carrots, apples...too high in sugar for me.

Yennie 03-23-2013 03:04 PM

This is really interesting!! I have a juicer my dad's wife gave me (she now has that super whirly thing from Costco - the $400++ one that retains the fiber? Anywho...) but I've not used it. She originally gave it to me because my son LOVES fresh pressed apple cider, thought we could make him some with the juicer but I'm wondering if this might be a way for me to go on DDs also.
Just kinda throw in stuff until it sounds/looks good?
I've tried making smoothies & shakes with veggies. I think I could do 1 day juice fasts. I'll have to look into this more...

mom23kids 03-23-2013 03:12 PM

This sounds really interesting! Do you have to use a juicer or could u use a.blender somehow :confused:

mojocat 03-23-2013 03:44 PM

To get the full benefits it is best to juice as the blender concoction will contain fiber and this will cause your digestion system to work on breaking down this fiber for nutrition as opposed to the juice contents which are already broken down. The whole point is to give your digestion system a rest so your energy can be directed to healing and not digestion.

Keep your eye out for garage sales and Ebay. So many people have juicers in their cupboard they don't use (I think I purchased mine for a wheatgrass blitz many years ago). I'm eyeing on off on ebay atm because I would like to do a weekend fast now and then.

My weight loss was so spectacular I had people crawing out of the woodwork asking me how. I had some spare DVDs and gave them out but nobody did it :dunno: I guess you have to be in the right frame of mind and zone; like any program.

Yennie 03-23-2013 04:14 PM

Mojo,
Did you have any particular recipes or combos that you liked? I suppose I could google juicer recipes, and I will, but if there are any tried & true combos you loved (or hated!) I'd love to hear from you.
I'm a little stuck at the moment. I know we're not supposed to call a "stall" until its been about 2 weeks, and I'm not there yet but I hit a new low on the scale, then bounced up 5 pounds and I'm stuck losing & bouncing the same 2 pounds from that 5 pound bounce. And, yes, I'm sure the scale was accurate with the new low. I'm not sure what changed other than I wasn't drinking as much lemon water (situation been rectified!!) but I'm wondering if I need to mix it up a little bit. I think I lost my first 15# a little too fast for my body to catch up with the loss and now its thinking and taking its time to decide if it wants to let go of more. Sounds like a great time to juice as it would be very healing, I believe.
Anyway, I'm exploring options - juicing, potato hacking, Stillman's hacking, not sure but this is awesome info! Thanks!!!

mojocat 03-23-2013 04:26 PM

The main green juice from memory was kale or spinach, celery (leaves and the stalks), cucumber, green apple and a bit of lemon and ginger. It wasn't great tasting but not too horrid at the same time. The main ingredients were the kale/spinach and celery.

As time went on I added whatever fruits were in season to the mixture, especially blueberries, as well as pure fruit juice for breakfast to make the whole experience more palatable. I made different concoctions for the morning fruit juice and it was fun trying the different flavours. You would think the sugar overload would have affected me but strangely it didn't. For the occasional fast though I would just stick to the green juice above - only adding the green apple to make it more palatable or blueberries.

mojocat 03-23-2013 04:37 PM

Hang in there, I'm in the same boat. I bet those 5lbs felt like 10lbs. I think I ate too much on UD's or maybe it's PMS for me, my rings do feel tight so I'm hoping I have a whoosh. Have you got a pressure cooker? Maybe a bone broth?

piratejenny 03-23-2013 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mojocat (Post 16332608)
the blender concoction will contain fiber and this will cause your digestion system to work on breaking down this fiber for nutrition...

I respectfully beg to differ...humans cannot digest fiber (cellulose).
(Some animals, such as gorillas, have the gut bacteria to break down cellulose into fatty acids.)

Fiber is bulky but otherwise inert and non-nutritive.
It passes through the digestive system pretty much unchanged.

You still need to digest the juice. In fact, it is advisable to "chew" your juice (swish it around in your mouth for several seconds, don't just gulp it down like water) so that your saliva mixes with it; saliva contains enzymes that start the digestive process.

The reasons that juice gives your digestive system a "break" is because (1) you don't have to chew it, (2) the enzymes in the raw foods (including fresh juice) have not been destroyed by cooking, and they will aid in digestion, and (3) you're not taking in any fat, animal products, legumes, grains, etc which can be harder to digest.

You would still get these benefits from "blended concoctions".

Your stomach may have to work a little harder to separate the fiber from the liquid, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. It could keep you feeling full longer, and may prevent constipation. Some people who fast for long periods of time will take lots of psyllium fiber and do salt water flushes or enemas. By drinking blended whole foods (smoothies etc) rather than just juice, you could avoid this.

There are times when people *do* need a break from fiber...after surgeries, for example, so that the intestines or other organs don't get stretched out.

I like to recommend searching for "raw soup" recipes--
they can be tastier than trying to sweeten a green smoothie or juice with berries or an apple.
You can also add ginger, garlic, parsley & other fresh herbs as well as salt (or Bragg's Aminos) & spices to make it interesting.

Here's a recipe I came up with for people who were new to juices:
Very refreshing & not overly intense. :)
1 small cucumber
2-3 stalks of celery
1/2 apple
1/4-1/2 lemon (leave on a little bit of the peel)

PS:
As I said before, I'm not a big fan of juicing (whole foods in blenders are preferable in my opinion but I'm not disparaging anyone else's opinion or experience) but I've worked the juice bar in several health food stores as well as helped many friends, boyfriends and roommates through fasting & cleanses. And I did do many, many 3 day fasts when I was younger.

mojocat 03-23-2013 07:11 PM

Yes my apologies you are correct, that was my cut and paste and editing which I didn't proof read property; same as my spelling and grammar. Fibre of course passes through the digestion system; think of corn :) Well everyone has different ways of juicing and each to their own and what feels right, there is no right way you would agree? I followed the reboot system and I didn't swish, I drank and it was a juice, not blending, and bottom line it felt right and it worked for me and it gave my poor old guts a well deserved break. If I did it again, which I hope to, I woud do it exactly the same way.

piratejenny 03-23-2013 08:00 PM

Well, I hope you might consider trying the swishing?
It really helps the juice be even more gentle on your digestion. :)

Especially if one is using refrigerated produce; swishing warms the juice to body temp so it's less of a shock to the stomach.

Yennie 03-23-2013 08:18 PM

Thanks everyone for the info. I'm kinda excited to go get some kale tomorrow (if I can find any that isn't nasty without going to Costco) and try some juice. I'll look for some recipes. I have ginger & celery. I like kale so I bet I will like this.
The neat thing about these boards is we get to learn from lots of different experiences, and mostly that what works for one doesn't always work for all.
Thanks Mojo & PJ for the detailed information!! Kinda excited to get the juicer out!!


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