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Old 03-15-2013, 08:31 PM   #1
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Struggling

I'm taking a break from JUDDD - I'm not sure if I can live this rollercoaster ride as happily ever after maintenance. I eat too much on UD's and it's not burning hunger - it's the mind - squirreling food on UD's because I won't be eating much the next day. I think this protocol works incredibly well for many people and is the perfect WOE for them, but my relationship with food is just too screwed up. I can handle the DD's it's just the UD's I continually struggle with. Every evening of an UD I feel guilt, depression, painful bloated stomach, a vow to do better next time and so on, and yet I still manage to shovel a bit more in before the DD. I keep thinking of ways to tweak it, maybe just eat meat on UD's but I just can't get a grip on it. Feast and famine should be working for me from a biological point of view, our bodies are adapted to it, but sadly my reptile mind seems to be the sticking point. Anyway this weekend, I plan on eating normally, whatever that is as I don't know anymore
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Old 03-15-2013, 08:37 PM   #2
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I'm SO SORRY to hear that! I JUDDD but I am well aware that every WOE doesn't work for everyone. I've read some of the other WOE boards on here and I shudder with horror reading what is absolutely wonderful for these other LCF members. In other words, one gal's trash is another gal's treasure.
I'm distressed for your distress. I wish I had an answer for you - especially since I'm finding success with JUDDD - a bit of my mother's genes in me - I WANT to find an answer for you!
I hope you'll stay around on the boards, maybe explore some of the other WOEs to find your nirvana, and pop in to give us updates.
I wish you the absolute best.
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Old 03-15-2013, 08:50 PM   #3
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Old 03-15-2013, 08:55 PM   #4
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Thank you Yennie - oh you bet I'm staying around - I will still be lurking. Maybe I just need a maintenance break. Maybe I need this to realise that I need to come back to JUDDD. Maybe I can hack and tweak and come back with something that works better on an UD. I'm not giving up. I still believe this could be the perfect WOE for me if I can manage the UD's. I'm going to lurk the leangain forums again - because fasting is the answer I believe, but I'm not sure if leangains works well for women, the issue of women and fasting is blurred somewhat. But you know just giving myself the all clear this weekend to eat "normally" has lifted a huge burden off my shoulders and somehow am not craving nuts and greek yoghurt anymore
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Old 03-15-2013, 09:09 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by mojocat View Post
Thank you Yennie - oh you bet I'm staying around - I will still be lurking. Maybe I just need a maintenance break. Maybe I need this to realise that I need to come back to JUDDD. Maybe I can hack and tweak and come back with something that works better on an UD. I'm not giving up. I still believe this could be the perfect WOE for me if I can manage the UD's. I'm going to lurk the leangain forums again - because fasting is the answer I believe, but I'm not sure if leangains works well for women, the issue of women and fasting is blurred somewhat. But you know just giving myself the all clear this weekend to eat "normally" has lifted a huge burden off my shoulders and somehow am not craving nuts and greek yoghurt anymore
Oh that is great to hear you will still be lurking. As was said above, its not for everyone, but honestly maybe a break is all you need!!! Trust me I have taken my fair share of breaks.......but I always come right back to JUDDD!

I have learned a few tricks over the months that I have found help me. You just need to find your "tweek"!!! Mine is a bottle of water before anything hits my lips. If I am full of water I dont eat as much! I also learned if your really really thinking your hungry (but know your not and so close to going over calories) I eat a hard boiled egg....then if I am still hungry have at it....you would be suprized at what you just cant eat after the taste of a hard boiled egg is in your mouth!! lol!!! <--totally found that out by accident but it was a nice accident!!! I always try to keep yogurt on hand too. Sometimes its just enough for my sweet tooth to be happy! I am so not a veggie person either....But I love cereal! I just make sure I get a box of my favorite and sometimes that bowl is what hits the spot and isnt a huge calorie killer! But either way thats what works for me!

Make sure you say hi from time to time!! And we will be here when/if you decided your ready again!!!
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Old 03-15-2013, 09:16 PM   #6
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Mojo!!! I could have written you post! If you search my name you will see all the struggles I have had with the same eating issues you are having on UDs.

I had to stop doing any kind of IF WOE because of what it was doing to me!

Taking a break may be just what you need and I hope you find that you can come back to JUDDD. I miss it terribly but know I can never do this WOE again.
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Old 03-15-2013, 09:34 PM   #7
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I'm sorry you're struggling mojocat. I hope you have a nice relaxing weekend, and don't stress about ways of eating and enjoy a nice break.
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Old 03-15-2013, 09:37 PM   #8
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Old 03-15-2013, 09:44 PM   #9
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I just started doing the Shangri-La Diet. It's more of a bio-hack, really.
Haven't been doing it long enough to share any results, but I think it might be good for anyone who has trouble with IF plans.

I've been reading the SLD forum, not just 1-paragraph testimonials, and it seems to suppress appetite, change attitudes toward food, and lower weight set-point without a lot of willpower struggles or calorie-counting. Your brain chemistry changes and does much of the work for you.

I'm using chia seeds as my "flavorless calories"--previous options were oil (grossed me out after a while) or sugar water (diabetic--can't use). I feel a lot better about chia; I actually had 2lbs just sitting around because I've *wanted* to incorporate it into my diet for a while!
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Old 03-15-2013, 10:15 PM   #10
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I'm so sorry that you are struggling so much. You will find your answer. Your only really beaten when you give up. I smoked for 20 years and every pack of cigarettes was my last one. I never bought them by the carton. Finally one day I found the inner strength and I really did it. I also had the help of the nicotine patch. You will find what works for you!
And trust me, you are not the only one who over eats on up days. It is 10:00 p.m. and I just sat down to the computer for a minute. My plan was to go have one more treat before my up day was over, I'm not at all hungry, I just want to stuff my face! I just read your post and it brought tears to my eyes! I wish there was something I could say to help you. Don't give up on yourself.
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Old 03-16-2013, 01:01 AM   #11
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Mojo, I'm so sorry you're feeling this way! I do think it's normal to hit a point where we're just tired of the routine, and start wanting to eat for our old, unhealthy reasons (whatever they are for each of us). A maintenance break may be just exactly what you need. You definitely need to relax and not have to think about it for awhile. I'm so glad you'll stick around and let us know what you decide to do.
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Old 03-16-2013, 02:54 AM   #12
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Sorry to hear you're having a hard time. I was having a similar experience until I realized that I always 'overate' the same amount of calories every UD, and so I concluded that my body has a good survival instinct and decided it wanted double the food on an UD to make up for a DD (that is to say, it wasn't truly 'overeating' even though, psychologically, I felt like I was overeating by having all that food at once).

I have been trying the 2-day-a-week DD plan and I find it is a lot easier in that I don't feel compelled to eat so much on UD's. Maybe it would be better for you too?
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Old 03-16-2013, 04:16 AM   #13
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I don't have anything useful to add, I just wanted to express my support for the difficult time you're going through.
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Old 03-16-2013, 04:32 AM   #14
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Mojo!

Enjoy eating normally this weekend! You will find the WOE that is best for you - keep looking, it is out there!
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Old 03-16-2013, 04:54 AM   #15
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I fell into this too. Trying to over fill myself on UDs to make up for the hunger on DDs. I've taken breaks. Now I've just returned to try it again.
We'll find what works! The important thing is to keep trying.
Don't lurk too long. Let us know how it's going. We are not alone in this.
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Old 03-16-2013, 05:05 AM   #16
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Oh Wow, so many sweet responses, I'm dumbfounded. I could never leave this forum - what is it about judddbudds that make them the nicest, warmest, kindest, sweetest and most encouraging people around? No-one is sarcastic, know all or condascending here - must be the juddd magic.

Avicennayou are right - it seems to be the same amount of calories, same food I overeat on UD's all the time, but they still make me feel bad. I just want to eat less. Maybe it's working by making me feel disgusted and bloated. Maybe I could just transfer to MWF DD's and MD/UD on weekends and see how that goes.

Anyway, I'm just chilling out this weekend, eating, had some highly coveted chocolate covered licorice which strangely tasted like poo and passed it off to DH aka Hoover, have been reading Ron Rosedale and leptin/insulin/grehlin etc. I think this is the key to my dilemma - I believe some powerful chemical/hormonal substances are afloat on the UD's and I'm wondering if fat could be the issue. Ron is high fat/medium protein/no fruit. I've avoided fats because of the high calories - being that JUDDD is purely about calories. Even the greek yoghurt I eat now is 1% when I never used to touch the low fat stuff. And I eat too much fruit, which I didn't do before JUDDD - so my diet has changed since JUDDDing, where I was almost zero carb. I still believe in the one day fasting, but it's the UD that is my adversary.
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Old 03-16-2013, 07:30 AM   #17
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Ack, mojo, I'm so sorry to hear this. I wish there was some magic pill we could all take and just make the food issues we all struggle with disappear. It should be so simple, shouldn't it? If only we could just eat what our body needs and not want any more! I'm glad you'll still be popping in. Please keep us updated and know you are loved over here girl!!!
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Old 03-16-2013, 08:24 AM   #18
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Mojo, I've had to take several maintenance breaks since November. If it was just not having a DD for a week, or the last time, 5:2 for two weeks. I think dieting fatigue can derail any kind of diet and especially IF for some people. The most important thing is to not give up on getting healthier, and IF is not the only way to diet. I wish you the best of luck and hope you find your "magic".
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Old 03-16-2013, 08:40 AM   #19
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Old 03-16-2013, 08:48 AM   #20
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Mojo, I've had to take several maintenance breaks since November. If it was just not having a DD for a week, or the last time, 5:2 for two weeks. I think dieting fatigue can derail any kind of diet and especially IF for some people. The most important thing is to not give up on getting healthier, and IF is not the only way to diet. I wish you the best of luck and hope you find your "magic".
Wish you the best mojo!
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Old 03-16-2013, 09:11 AM   #21
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Maybe I could just transfer to MWF DD's and MD/UD on weekends and see how that goes.
Thats what I do!!!!!! Its a slow go for loss but I do much better mentally with it!! I always take saturdays as a MD, I skip breakfast and lunch and have dinner with my family. But if I didnt do it this way I wouldnt do it at all!!!
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Old 03-16-2013, 01:26 PM   #22
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I hope you find your answers!! While JUDDD is an easy road for some, for most we have to struggle and tweak our way to success, no matter - we'll get there eventually!
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Old 03-16-2013, 03:00 PM   #23
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Quote:
Quote Mojocat: I just want to eat less. Maybe it's working by making me feel disgusted and bloated. Maybe I could just transfer to MWF DD's and MD/UD on weekends and see how that goes.
I think that's a good plan Mojo. Or, if you keep your other rotations clean, you could probably get away with 2 UDs per weekend.

Quote:
Quote Mojocat: I've avoided fats because of the high calories - being that JUDDD is purely about calories.
This confuses me. It's generally recommended to include good fats like CO and butter on your UDs. Avocados are also great UD fare.

You say you eat a lot of fruit, which is pretty low cal - and noticeably sweet. You're not a veggie lover? So, what else do you usually eat on your UDs before you start to go overboard?? That could be the key to your problems.

I hope you're enjoying a relaxed weekend!

Last edited by Flossyliz; 03-16-2013 at 03:10 PM..
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Old 03-16-2013, 03:28 PM   #24
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Flossy sometimes it is the very act of eating that sets its off...that why DD's are easier. The longer I don't eat on an UD the better, but then I worry about the starvation mode etc and start to eat and it goes from there. Having a breakfast doesn't help either, if I eat breakfast it's a continual eating orgy all day. Just eating food makes me want food - it's peculiar. I just don't know why I have no control these days and can only think diet fatigue and my body rebelling and wanting to put on weight. Funnily enough I can handle discipline or restriction (such as a DD) it's when I have freedom on UDs that I can't seem to handle it, especially knowing it will be a DD next day. I wish it wasn't called an UD, for me it should be a normal diet day - not a normal no-diet day.

Fruit is a major problem, nuts of course and I think dairy is a problem as well - both are foods that are difficult to stop at one. Fruit being the natural sugars possibly the culprits, and nuts and dairy known allergerns. Stop eating them..yes that's the logical answer... hopefully having a break and freedom from stressing over it may help.
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Old 03-16-2013, 03:32 PM   #25
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Mojo. I hope you find what works for you. I struggle myself so I have advise to give but wish you success with whatever you decide to follow. Take care
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Old 03-16-2013, 04:52 PM   #26
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mojo, I know you were probably just posting to vent and not asking for advice, but have you tried l-glutamine?

I have a certain water bottle that I put my l-glut into, and when I leave it in the car or "lose" it in my house somewhere , I get out of the habit of taking it and my eating patterns change a lot. I start wanting to eat just for flavor/texture, not for hunger, and I will "need" to eat like 4-10 different things to be satisfied or get the cravings out of my system.

I feel like it really affects my brain or something--in a good way!--because when I take l-glut, I have fewer cravings and can eat simpler foods (like cottage cheese or hb eggs) without feeling deprived. I don't necessarily eat a lot less, but at least I'm not struggling with myself all day.

Of course, it might not work for everybody, but I thought I might as well mention it.
The leptin reset is a good idea too.
You said eating breakfast sets you off eating all day, but have you tried the "leptin" big protein breakfast? When I do that, I can easily go 5-6 hours without putting another bite of food into my mouth, and I sleep better at night. If I have carbs for breakfast, or too small of a breakfast, it doesn't work; it has to be serious protein.
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Old 03-16-2013, 05:55 PM   #27
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Dear Piratejenny, I'm always open to advice. BAB backfired on me; made me sleepy (I almost crashed my car). I know carb has made me sleepy in the past but protein?? I have no idea why. Edit - Ron Rosedale argues that too much protein converts to glucose as well which is why he promotes fat. Also just the very act of filling my gut to capacity triggers the mindset that I have to eat more. I wish the BAB did work; I love the work of Jack Kruse - everything he puts out there is free for everyone; you have to admire the passion he has. Grehlin is the hormone that tells the stomach it's full. I think I have grehlin issues and that's why BAB doesn't work and why I have issues with the full gut feeling. I'm currently trying to research as much as I can about grehlin. I want JUDDD to work for myself and all the juddbudds - the dedication of some people here is unbelievable.

I have only started to take L-glut after reading about it here but it hasn't been a week yet and I believe it takes a week to work? I thought it had to be taken on an empty stomach. So I can fill a water bottle with LGlut and sip throughout the day?? I'm also ordering some ptero - I think it's call tru blu trim or something like that. I don't live in the US so it's not coming anytime soon. Also Piratejenny, I know you like shangri-la, I like Seth Roberts as well - he's kind of like a Jack isn't he - and you know I would really like to do this with pine nut oil - two appetite suppressant methods. I've seen a bottle on ebay that's not overly pricey and it's local so I should get it soon. Perhaps I'm putting too much hope into supplements, but I feel I need some "help" and I never underestimate the power of placebo

Last edited by mojocat; 03-16-2013 at 05:57 PM..
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Old 03-16-2013, 06:36 PM   #28
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Quote:
BAB backfired on me; made me sleepy (I almost crashed my car).
Oh man!!! So glad you didn't!
Just goes to show we are all so different, right?!
I learned from Dr Bernstein's book that any meal that stretches your stomach triggers an insulin response; you wouldn't need as much insulin for a mostly-protein meal as you would for a mixed meal, but if your body produced too much insulin, you could have a blood sugar crash and feel sleepy.
I had to work up to my BAB pretty slowly.
Quote:
I thought it had to be taken on an empty stomach. So I can fill a water bottle with LGlut and sip throughout the day??
That's what I do. I don't remember reading anywhere that it has to be taken on an empty stomach...although I have read that if you take it before a meal, it may help you eat less. I started taking it because I read it was good for insulin sensitivity; I had no idea it could be an appetite suppressant so I don't think it was a placebo effect in my case.
I think it did take a few days to start working, but again, I wasn't looking for that effect so it might have taken me a couple days to realize I felt different.
If it's not working for you yet, you could try taking more. I put 5mg in my water bottle 2-5 times per day. Unlike many supplements that give me stomach problems if I take too much, I haven't noticed any bad side effects. (YMMV)

Quote:
Perhaps I'm putting too much hope into supplements
I don't think there's any thing wrong with trying, especially if you feel that something is "off" with your hunger signals.
Just "eating less" isn't always enough if you're missing a nutrient or if something's not functioning optimally.
I think people sometimes beat themselves up too much over willpower and other perceived "character flaws" when our brain chemistry and hormones affect us so much more than we might realize or like to admit!
--------------
Another angle/tool you might want to consider is cell wall permeability.
I read a couple years ago that when we are leptin resistant, insulin resistant, etc, part of the problem is that we're making plenty of the needed hormones but they're not getting into our cells properly. It could be because the cell walls are too tough (and/or there are insufficient receptors...but I don't really understand that so won't attempt to address it! ). Main culprit: too much omega-6, not enough omega-3s.
So you could try increasing omega-3s and cutting out vegetable oils (if you use them).
Other things that improve cell wall permeability:
MSM
cinnamon
magnesium
--------------------
Good luck, honey!!!

Last edited by piratejenny; 03-16-2013 at 06:39 PM.. Reason: grammar
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Old 03-16-2013, 06:38 PM   #29
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Stats: 5'3" 35yo 199/sig/146 No longer obese!
WOE: A.I. 1/1-1/20; JUDDD 1/21/13, Potatoes as needed
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojocat View Post
I wish the BAB did work;

It doesn't work for me either. All that protein in the morning, with or without fat, and I'm starving a few hours later. However, a cup of coffee (BP or otherwise) and I'm easily set until lunch or beyond.

...why I have issues with the full gut feeling.

I was just talking to my mom about this the other day. We've both acknowledged there are times when we'll be so physically full that it's painful, yet we're still "hungry". Its absolutely bizarre! So I think I may now understand a bit of what you're going through.

I feel I need some "help" and I never underestimate the power of placebo
Whatever it takes, mind games, whatever to help you over the hump. I am trying to think about the times I have felt what I described to you above, and what I did to help me through it. I'll think on it but I don't know if my particular version of mind games will be of any use to you.

Please keep your chin up - I know this sucks. We're all pulling for you!!!
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Old 03-16-2013, 06:47 PM   #30
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Stats: 233/209/180/119 Height 5ft7inch
WOE: LC/Juicing/rxHCG, JUDDD/IF/No S foods
Start Date: 28 Jan 2012
@Piratejenny

Omega 3 - yep too many nuts! Got some new fish oil caps last night as I had run out and I have been slack with taking magn. Thank you for the info.

and Yennie

Please post your mind games - I would be grateful. Amazing how many people relate to this...I'm not alone in my freaky food issues.
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