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hot-in-texas 03-07-2013 09:45 AM

something that has been 'frustrating' me about juddd
 
so let me first say Juddd rocks. But I do have a complaint and I am wondering if anyone else sympathizes with this, and if there are any tips.
here goes
on my DDS, i am always excited, or at least anticipating my UDS, because I will get to eat what I have been thinking about-I just tell myself I can have it tomorrow.(i love food)
when my UD comes around, I rarely eat what I was anticipating, either i am not hungry for it, or it wasn't available to me. If i do get to eat it, it doesn't meet the expectation. And then my UD becomessomewhat of a let down. :?
this may be my own neurosis. Last night I would not allow myself to anticipate anything and I think it helped. I dunno, i think part of me is missing the bingeing i used to do, that is scawwwwy

mom23kids 03-07-2013 09:50 AM

I've had that happen before too- I set something aside to eat on an UD and anticipate it for my whole DD. Then my UD arrives and the darn thing doesn't even sound good anymore :down: :dunno:

LoCarbGal 03-07-2013 09:57 AM

Me too Sher. Not every UD, thank goodness. But I have had sort of anticlimactic UDs where I used up every calorie and felt like I didn't really satisfy......something. Not sure what. It's really such a balancing act, making sure you're eating food you have on hand and need to use, making sure you're getting at least a semblance of good nutrition, and getting to eat the "treat" items you can have if their budgeted in. This continues to be a learning process for me!

KeirasMom 03-07-2013 10:02 AM

I think we've ALL gone through that to some extent. In some ways that's actually a very good thing. You're learning about yourself, what's worth those calories, and what isn't. I keep a variety of treats around so that if the one I wanted on my DD doesn't appeal, there's always something else.

Some people with bingeing tendencies can't keep multiple treats around, so I don't know if that would work for you. I've been known to have a single good quality chocolate bar in the fridge for weeks, just taking a small square here and there. I've gotten to the point where chips are also a take-it-or-leave-it situation. I recently decided a small bag of pistachios is okay to have in the house, but the big bag calls out to me more loudly, so that's the only thing so far I'm limiting.

sterlinggirl 03-07-2013 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KeirasMom (Post 16301655)
I think we've ALL gone through that to some extent. In some ways that's actually a very good thing. You're learning about yourself, what's worth those calories, and what isn't. I keep a variety of treats around so that if the one I wanted on my DD doesn't appeal, there's always something else.

Some people with bingeing tendencies can't keep multiple treats around, so I don't know if that would work for you. I've been known to have a single good quality chocolate bar in the fridge for weeks, just taking a small square here and there. I've gotten to the point where chips are also a take-it-or-leave-it situation. I recently decided a small bag of pistachios is okay to have in the house, but the big bag calls out to me more loudly, so that's the only thing so far I'm limiting.

:goodpost:

hot-in-texas 03-07-2013 10:59 AM

Thx guys. :hugs: The more I contemplate this, I think it's because I miss bingeing. That has been my WOE for years. But on a positive note, I definitely am learning. I am definitely forgoing chips and going thru drive-thrus and stuff.:). But as far as having a huge plate of nachos and then a large piece of chocolate cake, and then....more nachos:o. It will just have to be a thing of the past:)

jaymar 03-07-2013 11:05 AM

You ladies are so right...i saved a small chocolate bar for today...and after lunch I thought sure...it's time...then..after I ate it..I was kinda sorry I did..it wasn't really that good...I'm glad you brought this up, Sher, cause it is something I have thought about and didn't quite know why I felt the way I did..it's like food is just a little more disappointing to me than it has ever been.
I think I can learn something here..I will sure try.:shake:

Yam-Yam 03-07-2013 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hot-in-texas (Post 16301602)
so let me first say Juddd rocks. But I do have a complaint and I am wondering if anyone else sympathizes with this, and if there are any tips.
here goes
on my DDS, i am always excited, or at least anticipating my UDS, because I will get to eat what I have been thinking about-I just tell myself I can have it tomorrow.(i love food)
when my UD comes around, I rarely eat what I was anticipating, either i am not hungry for it, or it wasn't available to me. If i do get to eat it, it doesn't meet the expectation. And then my UD becomessomewhat of a let down. :?
this may be my own neurosis. Last night I would not allow myself to anticipate anything and I think it helped. I dunno, i think part of me is missing the bingeing i used to do, that is scawwwwy

EXACTLY!! I know from reading posts for over a year on the JUDD forum that this is soooooo common!

I remember a number of us laughing because we often forgot it was an UD and thought it was a DD. Then in the evening discovered "OMGOSH! It's an UD and I'm supposed to be eating!" What a problem to have!

Also, as recently as Super Bowl Sunday I experienced the anticipation/let down syndrome. I had a great disciplined low DD on Saturday and all I could think about were the pizza's that were going to be ordered for our Super Bowl Party. :yummy: Sunday came, I ate the pizza because it was there. But I kept thinking "this is not as good as I remember it being or as good as I thought it would be." I ate it anyway! HA! Guess my emotional type eating is still here. I eat for social reasons a lot!

Makes me want to kick myself in the rear because I could have passed on the pizza, filled up on healthier stuff and no one would have noticed or cared. I just told myself I deserved it. :doh:

sorenkkg 03-07-2013 11:15 AM

I'm with you, and I'm also having another issue (not a major one)-- I'm finding that very very little is "worth it"... like, nothing is living up to my expectations. Sometimes, I get so wrapped up in my own head, I almost get paralysed as to what to eat at all... ya know?

As for UD foods, I'm boiling the whole thing down to "eat to live, not live to eat". The only time I'm really super jazzed for an UD is when we go to my favorite restaurant, where the chef cooks off menu for us, and we have both the element of surprise in not knowing what is coming AND the knowledge that it's likely going to be more amazing than anything I could whip up at home.

Another thought-- bingeing wasn't ever really my thing (i.e like high volume of food) but I was always a bit weird that way-- so controlled that anything OP was a "binge" for me (this winds you up in eating disorder therapy for 10+ years, but I'm ok now :) ).
So, my thought is just around how on JUDDD, *less is not more*, which is really great.
I *have* to eat my UD calories. Not eating this is actually being off plan.
Ya know?

So I get to put my slight OCD to good work, where I track my food on UD and DD, and my foodie tendencies with trying to get the most flavor/nutrition/satiety bang for my caloric buck.
And the dark side of OCD gets squashed, b/c less is not more, starving every day isn't doing the plan right, and I am forced to figure out meals each day, be they balanced or unbalanced (b/c tomorrow is always another day in JUDDD).

hmmm.... not my clearest communication... hope it makes some sense :o

S.

brewstate 03-07-2013 11:16 AM

I often feel the same way and its a testament to how much of our eating is mental. I think "its an UD, I should be enjoying this more" but always pragmatic, I usually end up wasting my calories on food that needed to be finished or something that is high in calories, low in taste.

In many ways, it seems that people that have food problems are addicted to the idea of food, rather than the food itself and fixating on your next meal, snack, etc is where the fun is.

hot-in-texas 03-07-2013 11:24 AM

Hello, my name is Sher, and I am a food aholic.:laugh:

I just remembered that I have tried to join overeaters anonymous a few times, but the coordinator never called me back either time. I think juddd and this forum works better:)

hot-in-texas 03-07-2013 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sorenkkg (Post 16301868)
I'm with you, and I'm also having another issue (not a major one)-- I'm finding that very very little is "worth it"... like, nothing is living up to my expectations. Sometimes, I get so wrapped up in my own head, I almost get paralysed as to what to eat at all... ya know?

As for UD foods, I'm boiling the whole thing down to "eat to live, not live to eat". The only time I'm really super jazzed for an UD is when we go to my favorite restaurant, where the chef cooks off menu for us, and we have both the element of surprise in not knowing what is coming AND the knowledge that it's likely going to be more amazing than anything I could whip up at home.

Another thought-- bingeing wasn't ever really my thing (i.e like high volume of food) but I was always a bit weird that way-- so controlled that anything OP was a "binge" for me (this winds you up in eating disorder therapy for 10+ years, but I'm ok now :) ).
So, my thought is just around how on JUDDD, *less is not more*, which is really great.
I *have* to eat my UD calories. Not eating this is actually being off plan.
Ya know?

So I get to put my slight OCD to good work, where I track my food on UD and DD, and my foodie tendencies with trying to get the most flavor/nutrition/satiety bang for my caloric buck.
And the dark side of OCD gets squashed, b/c less is not more, starving every day isn't doing the plan right, and I am forced to figure out meals each day, be they balanced or unbalanced (b/c tomorrow is always another day in JUDDD).

hmmm.... not my clearest communication... hope it makes some sense :o

S.

Made TOTAL sense:hugs:

Shari4 03-07-2013 11:28 AM

Sher..........been there, done that. Own the t-shirt!! :laugh:

vanilla_latte 03-07-2013 11:41 AM

Yes, and I don't think I saw anyone mention it (I just skimmed the previous posts), but I think that's a benefit of the Sirt gene, too. Once it's kicked in, it helps with the appetite.

I also think it's the "want what you can't have" syndrome, because when you CAN have it ... you don't want it!

sorenkkg 03-07-2013 11:49 AM

YES!!! ^^^^ it's never as good as you remember.

Apparently, memories, like salt, enhance flavor.
:D

svenskamae 03-07-2013 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaymar (Post 16301838)
You ladies are so right...i saved a small chocolate bar for today...and after lunch I thought sure...it's time...then..after I ate it..I was kinda sorry I did..it wasn't really that good...I'm glad you brought this up, Sher, cause it is something I have thought about and didn't quite know why I felt the way I did..it's like food is just a little more disappointing to me than it has ever been.
I think I can learn something here..I will sure try.:shake:

I think even the experiences of "it wasn't that good" treats can be a learning experience, even though they are disappointing in the moment when they happen.

It may be that our bodies are naturally drawn to more healthy choices when the SIRTs kick in and our bodies "know" that they aren't getting an endless number of calories and unlimited amount of food, day after day. So our tastes change as our bodies heal--and then we don't have to miss chocolate bars, if we learn they don't taste all that great to us, anymore.

Also, if we eat more consciously and planfully, rather than "it's there, I see it, I eat it," then we may be eating more "in the moment," with greater awareness, so we actually ask ourselves, "Did I really like that?"--something that we might not have even thought about at an earlier point in our lives.

I think both those things are good in the long run, even if they mean that sometimes we feel a bit disappointed with our anticipated treat.

I'm combining JUDDD with lowcarb/moderate protein, so I don't know which element is more important to my experience, but I also find that my tastes have changed over time. After not eating grains and sugar for a year, I don't want to eat grains and sugar; however, I taste the sweetness of fresh fruits and vegetables and cream much more intensely than I used to, and I savor flavors like good olive oil and aged cheese that I just wouldn't have noticed much in an earlier point in my life. So I still get a lot of enjoyment out of many of my food choices--I just enjoy different things than I used to. It may take a while for us to figure out what we really "like" at a given point in our lives.

sorenkkg 03-07-2013 12:42 PM

:goodpost: You know what? the foods I'm NOT disappointed in (dd or ud)-- fruits and veggies!

I'm reading your post Svenska and thinking about the arugula/baby spinach mix I have in the fridge. And how, not only does it "not suck" ;) but I actually like it. This is big for me, b/c I sort of hate salad :p But it's getting better!

b_lou_who 03-07-2013 12:49 PM

totally...which always tells me that NEEDING a certain food is all in my head once the immediacy of the situation passes.

svenskamae 03-07-2013 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sorenkkg (Post 16302098)
:goodpost: You know what? the foods I'm NOT disappointed in (dd or ud)-- fruits and veggies!

I'm reading your post Svenska and thinking about the arugula/baby spinach mix I have in the fridge. And how, not only does it "not suck" ;) but I actually like it. This is big for me, b/c I sort of hate salad :p But it's getting better!

:goodpost: I think coming to like that arugula/baby spinach mix is a major NSV, Soren! :hugs: :D :up:

Librarygirl 03-07-2013 03:54 PM

Definitely get disappointed in foods on UDs. I think this is part of JUDDD. I've seen Steph lament this often in her posts, and I concur. Tonight I am having a T bone steak and potatoes and I think it will live up to my expectations!:yummy:

sorenkkg 03-07-2013 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Librarygirl (Post 16302427)
Definitely get disappointed in foods on UDs. I think this is part of JUDDD. I've seen Steph lament this often in her posts, and I concur. Tonight I am having a T bone steak and potatoes and I think it will live up to my expectations!:yummy:

I might need to do quality assurance on your meal, Cindy, to make sure that you're not going to be disappointed... Nom nom... Just another.. Nom... Bite...
Nope.
Steak's a winner! Safe to enjoy!
;)

Librarygirl 03-08-2013 04:33 AM

It wasn't as good as I'd hoped. :D Haha, we are all going to start budgeting to buy strictly gourmet! :D

gotsomeold 03-08-2013 04:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Librarygirl (Post 16303097)
It wasn't as good as I'd hoped. :D Haha, we are all going to start budgeting to buy strictly gourmet! :D

Actually, that is kind of where I ended up. On UDs I frequently forgot I was supposed to be eating - and stalled my weight loss - until I started planning my UD meals (not just promising myself I would eat such-and-so tomorrow). For me, planning seemed more satisfying than emotional day-later eating.

sunday 03-08-2013 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svenskamae (Post 16301999)
I think even the experiences of "it wasn't that good" treats can be a learning experience, even though they are disappointing in the moment when they happen.

It may be that our bodies are naturally drawn to more healthy choices when the SIRTs kick in and our bodies "know" that they aren't getting an endless number of calories and unlimited amount of food, day after day. So our tastes change as our bodies heal--and then we don't have to miss chocolate bars, if we learn they don't taste all that great to us, anymore.

I can't tell you how instrumental this lesson was for me! I give IF 10 stars simply for ingraining the elementary but important thought that a treat is really not as important to me nutritionally or healthwise, but it is there for PLEASURE! :) I began JUDDD wanting the treats EVERY single day, UD and DD. When I opened my fridge, I would look at the wonderful fresh greens, spinach, avocado, brocolli, butter lettuce and then my eyes would remain fixed on the leftover pizza, DH's cinnamon buns, B&J ice cream, etc. Sadly, it was such a mind game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewstate (Post 16301871)
I often feel the same way and its a testament to how much of our eating is mental. I think "its an UD, I should be enjoying this more" but always pragmatic, I usually end up wasting my calories on food that needed to be finished or something that is high in calories, low in taste.

In many ways, it seems that people that have food problems are addicted to the idea of food, rather than the food itself and fixating on your next meal, snack, etc is where the fun is.

:goodpost:

Someone either on JUDDD or the IF forum made mention of a book, "The Pleasure Trap" which explores why we instinctly think of junk food as pleasurable. We make right choices and suffer, (so we believe) while we make the wrong choices and believe that it is pleasure. :stars: Fasting teaches us to go straight for the gold. Food that sustains us through the next DD. :up:

gotsomeold 03-08-2013 05:49 AM

Sunday's post plays into something I was thinking...

Those sudden "I want ...!" are triggers. They may be learned (walk by a restaurant, take a deep breath, and start drooling for a huge steak; go to the circus and think of cotton candy, etc, etc) or they may be hormonal (blood glucose drops a bit, think of hot fudge sundae).

They are immediate responses to something situational. Of course you don't want them the next day! The situation has changed.

I did find it very helpful, when I had a sudden craving for something, to look around, think, and try to identify the trigger. If it was learned, I started un-learning it. Literally, and to the amusement of people around me, I sometimes said out loud, "Circus, I am not going to eat corn dog now. You cannot make me. The next time I eat a corn dog it will be because I - not you - want one." If I realized I had gone too long without eating and my inner landscape was having an earthquake, I usually found myself a salad (fat + carb + protein - eat 'em all to get things back in balance.)

Those sudden urges are very useful.

hot-in-texas 03-08-2013 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunday (Post 16303180)
I can't tell you how instrumental this lesson was for me! I give IF 10 stars simply for ingraining the elementary but important thought that a treat is really not as important to me nutritionally or healthwise, but it is there for PLEASURE! :) I began JUDDD wanting the treats EVERY single day, UD and DD. When I opened my fridge, I would look at the wonderful fresh greens, spinach, avocado, brocolli, butter lettuce and then my eyes would remain fixed on the leftover pizza, DH's cinnamon buns, B&J ice cream, etc. Sadly, it was such a mind game.



:goodpost:

Someone either on JUDDD or the IF forum made mention of a book, "The Pleasure Trap" which explores why we instinctly think of junk food as pleasurable. We make right choices and suffer, (so we believe) while we make the wrong choices and believe that it is pleasure. :stars: Fasting teaches us to go straight for the gold. Food that sustains us through the next DD. :up:

YES! My body wants spinach, brightly colored peppers, and chicken right now!
Quote:

Originally Posted by gotsomeold (Post 16303212)
Sunday's post plays into something I was thinking...

Those sudden "I want ...!" are triggers. They may be learned (walk by a restaurant, take a deep breath, and start drooling for a huge steak; go to the circus and think of cotton candy, etc, etc) or they may be hormonal (blood glucose drops a bit, think of hot fudge sundae).

They are immediate responses to something situational. Of course you don't want them the next day! The situation has changed..

this is a lightbulb moment!
Quote:

Originally Posted by gotsomeold (Post 16303212)
I did find it very helpful, when I had a sudden craving for something, to look around, think, and try to identify the trigger. If it was learned, I started un-learning it. Literally, and to the amusement of people around me, I sometimes said out loud, "Circus, I am not going to eat corn dog now. You cannot make me. The next time I eat a corn dog it will be because I - not you - want one." If I realized I had gone too long without eating and my inner landscape was having an earthquake, I usually found myself a salad (fat + carb + protein - eat 'em all to get things back in balance.)

Those sudden urges are very useful.

:hyst::hyst: I will have you know, that to prove your point, I now see a dang corndog in my future!

sorenkkg 03-08-2013 10:49 AM

Love it, Yamster! totally spot on! I've not read the book, but I do feel I've learned that via JUDDD, and now, junk food, my example is bubble (or boba) tea-- It's about 400 calories I think-- is just not REWARDING.

For me, food-rewarding is like I said, my amazing gourmet chef friend meals. I go into those prepared for the calorie "spend" AND for any bounce the next day.

But, as I pass the thai restaurant at the end of my street :rolleyes: and think, Oh, Bubble Tea, maybe tomorrow... tomorrow has come and come again and again since April 2012, and I've not gotten a single one.

:eek: 400 cals on a drink? on even an UD? are you nuts (I think to myself)... I could have 4 more oz of roast beef! :D

I just freakin love juddd! :heart:

svenskamae 03-08-2013 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gotsomeold (Post 16303212)
Sunday's post plays into something I was thinking...

Those sudden "I want ...!" are triggers. They may be learned (walk by a restaurant, take a deep breath, and start drooling for a huge steak; go to the circus and think of cotton candy, etc, etc) or they may be hormonal (blood glucose drops a bit, think of hot fudge sundae).

They are immediate responses to something situational. Of course you don't want them the next day! The situation has changed.

I did find it very helpful, when I had a sudden craving for something, to look around, think, and try to identify the trigger. If it was learned, I started un-learning it. Literally, and to the amusement of people around me, I sometimes said out loud, "Circus, I am not going to eat corn dog now. You cannot make me. The next time I eat a corn dog it will be because I - not you - want one." If I realized I had gone too long without eating and my inner landscape was having an earthquake, I usually found myself a salad (fat + carb + protein - eat 'em all to get things back in balance.)

Those sudden urges are very useful.

:goodpost: Another brilliant post from Nancy! What you wrote about situational triggers--and then triggers changing the next day--make so much sense. But I wouldn't have thought of it by myself. I really like your model of self-talk for unlearning trigger cravings, too.

Mostly I rely on the "I don't eat that" immediate thought that I have automatically after more than a year of eating lowcarb, sweetener-free, grain-free, and pretty clean. I had to buy some pre-made food for lunch today (usually I make time to pack lunch, but not this morning), and I found myself prowling a student-oriented convenience store at the university while thinking "Why isn't there any real food here?" (instead of a huge amount of packaged preprocessed food-products). About all I found that fit in my "I eat that" model was some sushi and hard-boiled eggs, so I had some "safe starch" sushi rice for the first time in a year. It was an interesting change, but I'm sure I'd be fine going without sushi for another year, too.

hot-in-texas 03-08-2013 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svenskamae (Post 16303927)
:goodpost: Another brilliant post from Nancy! What you wrote about situational triggers--and then triggers changing the next day--make so much sense. But I wouldn't have thought of it by myself. I really like your model of self-talk for unlearning trigger cravings, too.

Mostly I rely on the "I don't eat that" immediate thought that I have automatically after more than a year of eating lowcarb, sweetener-free, grain-free, and pretty clean. I had to buy some pre-made food for lunch today (usually I make time to pack lunch, but not this morning), and I found myself prowling a student-oriented convenience store at the university while thinking "Why isn't there any real food here?" (instead of a huge amount of packaged preprocessed food-products). About all I found that fit in my "I eat that" model was some sushi and hard-boiled eggs, so I had some "safe starch" sushi rice for the first time in a year. It was an interesting change, but I'm sure I'd be fine going without sushi for another year, too.

Sven,
my son is eating a paleo diet, and since it is easier than fixing two different meals, my other son and I are also eating a lot of paleo foods as well. I do find this food particularly satisfying. No added sugar, no gluten, no grains, or dairy, and just a small amount of potato(rarely) I agree Nancy put it brilliantly too, these triggers are situational. learned. I find that I am rebellious though, and have not yet made the committment to say"I don't eat that":annoyed:

gotsomeold 03-08-2013 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svenskamae (Post 16303927)
.... I had to buy some pre-made food for lunch today (usually I make time to pack lunch, but not this morning), and I found myself prowling a student-oriented convenience store at the university while thinking "Why isn't there any real food here?" ...

I wander around my parent's kitchen, convenience stores, friend's kitchens, restaurants, fast food joints, my own kitchen after DH does the shopping...muttering the same thing.

!!!!!! "Why isn't there any real food here?" !!!!!!

*****

So, Sher, if "I don't eat that" does not work for you, keep saying "I will eat that tomorrow." Then don't worry if tomorrow hold different treats and surprises. It's all good (except the so-called 'food' in my parent's fridge).


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