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calichris 02-14-2013 11:16 AM

Advice on JUDDD, blood sugar, and prediabetes please
 
Hi BUDDDs,

Since tracking my blood sugar response to food I've noticed that I can't handle large amounts of carbs. :cry: I'm in a bit of mourning over this, since JUDDD has been for me a way to lose weight well while eating whatever I want every other day. When I have, for example, a generous portion of spaghetti or white rice with a meal, even if it includes proteins and fats, especially when the meal as a whole is on the larger side, my blood sugar readings actually go into diabetic range, even the next morning (I'm planning to let my doctor know about this).

So ... I actually feel like I'm on the diabetes fast track. If I have to be careful with carbs, and if I can't even eat larger quantities of food I would enjoy at one time without triggering blood sugar issues, is JUDDD still a good plan, or should I think about "eating sensibly every day" (insert rolling eyes icon here). I know it's possible to do low carb JUDDD, but I don't know if I can motivate to do down days with the reward of .... a larger salad. :dunno:

On the other hand, I seem to be able to tolerate a small amount of carbs in the context of a balanced meal with fats and proteins fairly well. But can I then get in enough up day calories? :stars:

I love JUDDD and have lost over 50 lbs on it, and part of me wants to ignore my blood sugar numbers and just keep losing weight like I have and hope to fix it that way, but I know that's probably not wise.

Any thoughts?

LoCarbGal 02-14-2013 11:19 AM

I'm sorry this is happening Chris! I don't know what to tell you, other than I do many if not most of my DDs with mostly protein and fat, and I'm usually very very satisfied. I have my coffee w/HWC in the morning, maybe a very small amount of bacon or a HB egg for lunch, and then the rest of my calories in bacon, egg, or meat of some kind for dinner. Tea and broth fill me the rest of the day if needed. So you could, conceivably do JUDDD with LC, as I try to do most of the time.

I hope you're not really headed for diabetes! Keep us posted on what the doctor has to say. :hugs:

deborahlh 02-14-2013 11:32 AM

I unfortunately have to do JUDDD/LC as well. I was hoping to just count calories, BUT nope....those dreaded carbs spike my blood sugar and send my cravings into overdrive.

While not nearly as fun or delicious it can be done LC.
I have gotten a lot of yummy LC recipes (even dessert) from Linda's low carb website. You might check it out.
Usually on UD I have some cheese or fattier meats to raise cals.
I hope you find what works!! Congrats on your success so far!!!!

calichris 02-14-2013 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoCarbGal (Post 16259407)
I'm sorry this is happening Chris! I don't know what to tell you, other than I do many if not most of my DDs with mostly protein and fat, and I'm usually very very satisfied. I have my coffee w/HWC in the morning, maybe a very small amount of bacon or a HB egg for lunch, and then the rest of my calories in bacon, egg, or meat of some kind for dinner. Tea and broth fill me the rest of the day if needed. So you could, conceivably do JUDDD with LC, as I try to do most of the time.

I hope you're not really headed for diabetes! Keep us posted on what the doctor has to say. :hugs:

Thanks LCG! I'm probably taking a negative view, but I already do low carb DDs, and if I am also eating low carb on up days ... I'm feeling unexcited about DDs in that context. I probably will think of it more optimistically in time.

sunday 02-14-2013 12:14 PM

Chris,
Would it be possible to just let your body heal for a while and do the 16 hour daily fasting? Then you could eat every day, but just stay within the window. This would prevent you from just having salad days too.

I am from the same situation as Deborah. I couldn't eat high or even mod carbs without losing control on UDs, so I don't know if I could have done JUDDD without LC.

PHD has taught me something that I am just now fully understanding doing the optimal eating and that is that until our body is nutritionally healthy, it isn't going to lose weight nor are we going to be able to fast easily.

LoCarbGal 02-14-2013 12:25 PM

I totally get it Chris. The deprivation feeling doesn't help to stay on any plan.

KeirasMom 02-14-2013 01:02 PM

No advice, just big ole :hugs: s!

piratejenny 02-14-2013 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calichris (Post 16259433)
Thanks LCG! I'm probably taking a negative view, but I already do low carb DDs, and if I am also eating low carb on up days ... I'm feeling unexcited about DDs in that context. I probably will think of it more optimistically in time.

(PS--do you mean you feel unexcited about UDs? Or...maybe both? :laugh:)

I've had this struggle, too, and I've complained about it on other threads. :o
Everybody raving about how fun JUDDD is because of being able to look forward to UDs & telling all the newbies how they're going to be able to eat "anything" really got on my nerves for a while! I had to stay out of the "what are you eating" threads...I even suggested that we start posting separate UD & DD threads so it wouldn't be so frustrating/tempting to read UD menus when I was on a DD!!! :p

There are some BUDDDs with diabetes who have done very well on JUDDD. Carly especially, I believe.

The thing is, "eating sensibly every day" just doesn't seem to work as well as UD/DDs. I think we've proven over & over again here that it's not just calories in/calories out; you take somebody who's been eating 1000 calories a day but not losing weight, and then they start eating 1500/500 (the exact same every 2 days), they do lose weight, and experience many health benefits that they weren't expecting.

I can relate to the dread that you feel. I've been spinning my wheels for months because I just haven't been able to get back into rotations. But maybe you can find someone to inspire you. (Hey, Carly? Caaaarrrrlyyyyyyyyyy? :lol:)

One thing I've discovered, if you do decide to stick with JUDDD or try some other form of IF (like the 8/16 that Sunday suggested), is that skipping breakfast or just having fat for breakfast (like coffee & cream) keeps my blood sugar high & aggravates my insomnia (it has something to do with cortisol and may be stressful on the adrenal glands). I'm of the opinion that this can't be good for my diabetes in the long run (it's certainly not good for my A1c), so I eat a protein-y breakfast ASAP after I wake up--yes, even if I'm not hungry!!! It brings my blood sugar down 30-50 points (to around 80-100), and it stays there for hours. :up:

Maybe you could try higher cal DDs, like 60%, or give yourself a couple hundred more calories on UDs so they don't seem so not-worth-it. Some people can tolerate more calories when they're eating LC (that good ol' "metabolic advantage").

zipp2play 02-14-2013 01:18 PM

I have had hypoglycemia my entire life. Until I figured out what it was and how to deal with it, I was a mess. For me, all meals (DD or UD) have to center around Protein, especially anytime before 4:00 p.m. I am still able to enjoy almost any foods on UD's as long as my protein is more than my carb. From what I understand prediabetic is the same way.

In my experience, it's all in what you get used to. I just know to feel good, I have to go easy on the carbs. NOT low carb, just easy on them.
Does this make any sense???

piratejenny 02-14-2013 01:30 PM

Keeping DDs LC wasn't too hard; I pretty much lived on zucchini, Better than Bouillon, skinless chicken breast, and eggs (or egg whites). But LC UDs didn't always make up for the DDs, in my mind (esp when I couldn't afford anything "special" like steak or shrimp for months on end).

That strategy that so many here seem to have, of going to a party on a DD and saving a piece of cake for tomorrow, well, I just can't do it. And that makes me dislike JUDDD. And then I feel like a big whiner, because there are other BUDDDs with diabetes or food allergies who can't do that either!!!

I'm going to whine a little bit more and say that I feel I would be more successful if my kitchen had an oven!!! If I could make myself some SF cheesecake, for example, I wouldn't feel so deprived!!! :mad: (I know, I know...I'm just full of excuses!!!)

Carly 02-14-2013 06:24 PM

Here I am!!!!!
I think for me the major loss of weight has helped by blood sugar issues more than any other one thing. I tend to eat sensibly or what ever that means most days. I don't low carb or count carbs at all. In fairness I don't eat cookies, ice cream or candy very often, but enjoy now and then. I eat yogurt on most UDs and those are pretty sweet. I eat the mini caramel rice cakes and Special K bars, too. I can't say that these items won't occasionally give me a reading of 150, but a year ago I was usually at 350 and change taking an injection 2x per day. Now I take no diabetic meds and usually see about 112 after a well balanced meal. 90's on DDs. I also limit diet soda to 1 glass a week.
See your MD and see what she says. :hugs:

hot-in-texas 02-14-2013 08:31 PM

My post just disappeared! Grr
I just wanted to give you hugs:console: Sometimes I wonder what the underlying cause is for this, and if there isn't a way to treat that. Or does that even make sense. Like maybe it's hormones, or something? Also, have you tried to take out just gluten only and see if that helps your numbers go down? I think I read that somewhere.
ETA- I am buying my BG monitor this weekend, I know it sounds silly, and I'm sure I can do it, but stabbing my own finger makes me cringe-like when you sit there with your eyes wide open at the eye doctor waiting for that puff of air.

Yennie 02-14-2013 09:13 PM

First, :hugs: but I'd also like to :clap::clap::clap: for you to being proactive and taking positive steps towards improving your health.
Ok, so that sounded really sanctimonious but there are so many people who would just burrow their head in the sand and ignore the warning signs. I think this is a great thing you're doing.
Having said that, one of the greatest things you can do for your health and blood sugar stabilization is weight loss. Easier said than done, right? So you need to make some decisions about HOW you think you can continue to lose weight. There will need to be some balance between getting it off fast & easy vs accommodating your new dietary needs.
My personal feeling is to do whatever you need to do to avoid needing to go on medication. Having worked in Diabetes research in my previous life (mostly Type 1 - the autoimmune one, but there is some crossover), I recognize that the medications have a place and when you need them, you need them but weight loss & dietary management should be your goals.
You already know what foods are trigger for you, and you've got the tools to measure and monitor your reactions to foods. I'd say use them! You've already come so far, and you're learning so much about yourself. Partner with your doctor, for sure, I'm not suggesting you do this on your own but use the tools you've been given to make this about YOU and not about the statistics, the drugs or the numbers.
Having said all of that (which was a lot) I think Sher's suggestion of starting by eliminating gluten is a sound way to go.
:heart::heart::heart::heart::heart:

piratejenny 02-14-2013 09:38 PM

There are some"alternative" things a person can try--

For example, there's a theory that insulin resistance is caused by "tough" cell membranes. To make the membranes more permeable: magnesium, MSM, cinnamon, less omega-6/more omega-3. L-glutamine is supposed to improve insulin sensitivity, but I don't remember the mechanism right now...bedtime, will look tomorrow! :yawn:

There's an enzyme (glucose-6-phosphatase) that signals the liver to release glucose into the bloodstream; in some people, the liver "dumps" too much glucose too often. Some medications & supplements (may) suppress the enzyme--metformin, d-chiro-inositol, chlorogenic acid, pterostilbene.

When pancreatic beta cells die, a diabetic can progressively lose the ability to produce insulin. A true cure for diabetes (not just a way to put it in remission) may lie in finding a way to halt this damage or to get these cells to regenerate. I have come across articles saying that the herb gymnema sylvestre may help regenerate beta cells; I haven't heard of any other food/herb/substance that might do this.

When an article or well-meaning person says that something is "good for blood sugar" but doesn't explain HOW, I am very cautious until I understand the mechanism. Some substances are insulin mimetics; others make the pancreas release more insulin. Personally, I don't think these address the underlying causes, so I avoid them or use sparingly. Large amounts of cinnamon or garlic can make me feel hypoglycemic.

This might sound more wack-a-doo, but there is a school of thought that many diseases are caused by pH imbalance and/or inflammation. So a person could try to address those issues nutritionally. I've definitely found that "alkalizing" (with baking soda, lemon or lime in water) lowers my blood sugar into a normal range.

PS: I stopped eating wheat 2-1/2 weeks ago (just wheat, not gluten), and I've gotten several "normal" fasting blood sugar readings. Like, 85 instead of my usual 130. It hasn't been super-consistent so far, but I don't recall seeing anything below 115-120 in the 2 years since I got a meter! 85 is really exciting!!!

svenskamae 02-14-2013 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calichris (Post 16259433)
Thanks LCG! I'm probably taking a negative view, but I already do low carb DDs, and if I am also eating low carb on up days ... I'm feeling unexcited about DDs in that context. I probably will think of it more optimistically in time.

I don't know what your food preferences or grocery budget options are, Chris, but I don't have trouble meeting my UD calories eating lowcarb and having food that I consider delicious. I pamper myself with things like triple cream cheese, heavy organic cream in coffee and tea, organic sour cream, marcona almonds, full-fat homemade salad dressings, butter on vegetables, relatively fatty meats (e.g., bacon, sausage, skin-on chicken, salmon) and avocados--all low in carbs but high in fat and calorie-dense. I have gotten used to eating no grains or sugars, and so I don't miss including them on my UDs--but it took a period of adjustment for me to feel that way.

svenskamae 02-14-2013 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piratejenny (Post 16260241)
There are some"alternative" things a person can try--

For example, there's a theory that insulin resistance is caused by "tough" cell membranes. To make the membranes more permeable: magnesium, MSM, cinnamon, less omega-6/more omega-3. L-glutamine is supposed to improve insulin sensitivity, but I don't remember the mechanism right now...bedtime, will look tomorrow! :yawn:

There's an enzyme (glucose-6-phosphatase) that signals the liver to release glucose into the bloodstream; in some people, the liver "dumps" too much glucose too often. Some medications & supplements (may) suppress the enzyme--metformin, d-chiro-inositol, chlorogenic acid, pterostilbene.

When pancreatic beta cells die, a diabetic can progressively lose the ability to produce insulin. A true cure for diabetes (not just a way to put it in remission) may lie in finding a way to halt this damage or to get these cells to regenerate. I have come across articles saying that the herb gymnema sylvestre may help regenerate beta cells; I haven't heard of any other food/herb/substance that might do this.

When an article or well-meaning person says that something is "good for blood sugar" but doesn't explain HOW, I am very cautious until I understand the mechanism. Some substances are insulin mimetics; others make the pancreas release more insulin. Personally, I don't think these address the underlying causes, so I avoid them or use sparingly. Large amounts of cinnamon or garlic can make me feel hypoglycemic.

This might sound more wack-a-doo, but there is a school of thought that many diseases are caused by pH imbalance and/or inflammation. So a person could try to address those issues nutritionally. I've definitely found that "alkalizing" (with baking soda, lemon or lime in water) lowers my blood sugar into a normal range.

PS: I stopped eating wheat 2-1/2 weeks ago (just wheat, not gluten), and I've gotten several "normal" fasting blood sugar readings. Like, 85 instead of my usual 130. It hasn't been super-consistent so far, but I don't recall seeing anything below 115-120 in the 2 years since I got a meter! 85 is really exciting!!!

Thanks for the helpful information, Pirate Jenny. I have pre-diabetes/insulin resistence and have been trying to eat fish (for the omega 3s) frequently, and have been drinking water with lemon as a liver function support. I'm also taking magnesium and pterostilbene. I'll look into reading more about some of the other things you mention.

Congratulations on your much improved BG readings without wheat! :shake: I've been wheat-free for about a year now, and feel much better not eating wheat. I really need to get over my needle phobia and start testing my blood glucose so that I have an empirical basis for seeing what tends to raise my own BG (or not).

gotsomeold 02-15-2013 03:18 AM

Oh Chris :console:

You remind me of me back in the bad old days. I knew dang well my bg was out of control, but I did not have the courage to buy a monitor and prove it. And, because my fasting bg was high/normal, my doctor blew me off when I tried to talk about my concerns to him.

So, I started with LC. And soon found I needed more carbs than LC strictly allowed in order to lose weight. So, I moved over to JUDDD and ate more green carbs. Six weeks into JUDDD I started testing starches and sweets...one at a time, in small portions. Added them back into my diet if I had no reaction, postponed them another month if I spiked/crashed, developed cravings, or even just found myself thinking about food obsessively after eating them.

I also concentrated on eating for health. When Sunday posted about PHD, I was amused to realize I was eating very close to the foods and the proportions they recommend.

These days I usually don't spike/crash. I usually have energy all day long. The exception is either wheat or gluten (I have not tested to see which is the culprit). I ran a final test a few evenings ago - pizza and piece of bread. My BG soared, I bloated and got dizzy, and I am still getting over the physical after effects. My new mantra is 'Eaten No Gluten' (stick with rice and potato and, happily most sweets).

I encourage you to (a) talk with your doctor, (b) clear your system by spending some time eating LC, then reintroduce starches/sweets one at a time and determine whether this is food item specific...and whether, over time, your body can adjust/recover, and (c) do some reading on the PHD thread - for me the health benefits (and ease of weight loss) are enormous.

:console: again!!

piratejenny 02-15-2013 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svenskamae (Post 16260265)
I really need to get over my needle phobia and start testing my blood glucose so that I have an empirical basis for seeing what tends to raise my own BG (or not).

Is your phobia triggered by seeing the needle, or just thinking about getting stuck? Because the lancing devices just look like little pens or tubes; you can't see the "needle" at all (it's much shorter and thinner than a hypodermic needle; it just looks like a tiny piece of wire about 1/8" long). It's spring-loaded; you pull the end, hold the cap against your skin, and push a button.

To me it really doesn't feel like a needle...more like a mosquito bite. Or 1/10th of a mosquito bite. :laugh:

I hope knowing this will make you less nervous. :hugs:

calichris 02-15-2013 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piratejenny (Post 16259604)
(PS--do you mean you feel unexcited about UDs? Or...maybe both? :laugh:)

Both, really! But what I meant is that the "I can eat that tomorrow" helps me on DDs.

The thing is, "eating sensibly every day" just doesn't seem to work as well as UD/DDs.

I think so too. I'll just need to rethink how I do my up days.

Maybe you could try higher cal DDs, like 60%, or give yourself a couple hundred more calories on UDs so they don't seem so not-worth-it. Some people can tolerate more calories when they're eating LC (that good ol' "metabolic advantage").

Good point! I probably won't need the cals on up days if I'm doing lower carb, but I've already been thinking about this for DDs. I've always done the 20%, but Dr. Johnson said you can go higher in the weight loss range if that's more doable long term ... this might be one of those times.

Thanks for your help PJ :heart:

calichris 02-15-2013 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gotsomeold (Post 16260343)

I encourage you to (a) talk with your doctor, (b) clear your system by spending some time eating LC, then reintroduce starches/sweets one at a time and determine whether this is food item specific...and whether, over time, your body can adjust/recover, and (c) do some reading on the PHD thread - for me the health benefits (and ease of weight loss) are enormous.

Thanks Nancy! This sounds like a great plan. :hugs: So far I've been doing the testing with the foods I'd normally eat, and fortunately some items I like seem A-OK (I need to focus on that!), others seem to be an issue, but I think reintroducing foods one at a time will be even more informative. It's so interesting to me that according to the bloodsugar 101 site, people's blood sugar rises are triggered by different foods.

ravenrose 02-15-2013 10:51 AM

there's a wide range of carbs between 20 grams a day and "all you can eat." you might be ok with up to 50 grams per meal. check it and see before you assume.

whatever you do, follow up with the dr.

it's been shown that starting Metformin EARLY leads to far better diabetic control with time. even if you are not literally diabetic, it would probably be a good idea. lots take it for insulin resistance even if not diabetic. good luck!

calichris 02-19-2013 06:05 PM

Update: I reported my glucose meter readings to my doctor, and she's going to do an A1C now and a glucose test (I get to drink concentrated sugar water while fasting and check levels every hour for a couple hours :sick:).

I had my first wheat free day, but didn't have the dramatic blood sugar reductions that Jenny had the next morning (is one day enough?). But I'm testing carbs one at a time, and had good results after a meal of 5 oz of potatoes with beef/veggie/butter. :up:

Carly 02-19-2013 06:14 PM

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that as you continue to lose weight that your blood sugar will regulate. It happened for me both times I lost. The first time I kept the weight off for about 5 years this time I hope it is permanent.

svenskamae 02-19-2013 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piratejenny (Post 16260853)
Is your phobia triggered by seeing the needle, or just thinking about getting stuck? Because the lancing devices just look like little pens or tubes; you can't see the "needle" at all (it's much shorter and thinner than a hypodermic needle; it just looks like a tiny piece of wire about 1/8" long). It's spring-loaded; you pull the end, hold the cap against your skin, and push a button.

To me it really doesn't feel like a needle...more like a mosquito bite. Or 1/10th of a mosquito bite. :laugh:

I hope knowing this will make you less nervous. :hugs:

I actually own a couple of blood glucose meters--one just for BG testing, one that also does testing for blood ketosis. I think it's the idea of it that bothers me; I don't especially mind getting shots so long as I can look away from what the doctor or the nurse is doing. When I use the meter myself, I can't just look away ... But I'll try to remember your analogy, saying to myself, "Pirate Jenny says to think of it like a tiney mosquito bite, and I can handle that." I really also just need to make the effort ... but I think I could do that, if I can just establish the habit. I'll try to do it this weekend and see how it goes. Thanks for the supportive post. :hugs:

Carly 02-19-2013 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svenskamae (Post 16268774)
I actually own a couple of blood glucose meters--one just for BG testing, one that also does testing for blood ketosis. I think it's the idea of it that bothers me; I don't especially mind getting shots so long as I can look away from what the doctor or the nurse is doing. When I use the meter myself, I can't just look away ... But I'll try to remember your analogy, saying to myself, "Pirate Jenny says to think of it like a tiney mosquito bite, and I can handle that." I really also just need to make the effort ... but I think I could do that, if I can just establish the habit. I'll try to do it this weekend and see how it goes. Thanks for the supportive post. :hugs:

It really doesn't even qualify for the it hurts category. It is a tiny prick and then it isn't sore unless you use the same finger over and over. My stomach use to be bruised from my byeatta injection, but that didn't hurt. I think I was just too rough maybe. I was really fat and had trouble seeing over the girls:hyst: not a pretty picture!

piratejenny 02-19-2013 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calichris (Post 16268748)
I had my first wheat free day, but didn't have the dramatic blood sugar reductions that Jenny had the next morning (is one day enough?). But I'm testing carbs one at a time, and had good results after a meal of 5 oz of potatoes with beef/veggie/butter. :up:

I didn't actually test for a couple weeks before I stopped eating wheat; I was just going by what my BG usually is. So maybe the drop wasn't all that dramatic.

I've had some high days since then.
And a couple days ago I had some wheat (a̶ ̶f̶e̶w̶ several bites :laugh: of my son's Chinese food--lo mein, breaded eggplant, fried wontons); my BG had been high the morning before I "cheated" (135ish), but the next day it was 98! And back to 130 the next day!!! :stars:

I just don't know what is going on.
But I got my A1c taken right when I started my w̶h̶e̶a̶t̶-̶f̶r̶e̶e̶ less wheat :o thing, and I'll get it done again in April or May, so I'm hopeful that I will see a difference there. That would be a victory even if my fasting BGs aren't always good. They seem to go up & down with my cycle, anyway.

It also seems depends on how much sleep I get. For example, this morning I woke up after only 4 hours of sleep, and my BG was 137. I went back to sleep for 3 hours, and my BG was 107. (This has happened a few times.) :huh:

piratejenny 02-19-2013 09:25 PM

Oh, and some nights I either forget my metformin or I skip it because it still hurts my stomach (the next day) if I take it without food. So I might have slightly higher BGs the next day.

calichris 04-06-2013 10:42 AM

Hi BUDDDs,

I had good news, so ... an update! After losing 9 more pounds on JUDDD since this initial post, exercising more, and reducing carbs a bit (without being traditionally low carb), my fasting blood glucose is 98 (high end of normal) and my A1C is 5.5 (normal). :jumpjoy:

I'm grateful to have discovered that I need to watch this area, but equally grateful to have discovered that I can still do JUDDD, and also, that I don't have to be very low carb unless I want to be. I can't go nuts -- at least not very often! -- but if I combine carbs with protein and keep the portion sizes reasonable, I do fine, especially with exercise. Exercise makes a huge difference in my blood sugar. Hopefully continued weight loss will help even more. Thanks everyone for your support. :heart:

piratejenny 04-06-2013 10:44 AM

Excellent! :up:

hot-in-texas 04-06-2013 11:09 AM

Congratulations Christina! That is so great!


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