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-   -   To account for exercise or not on the JUDDD calculator (http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/juddd/796355-account-exercise-not-juddd-calculator.html)

hot-in-texas 02-05-2013 10:34 AM

To account for exercise or not on the JUDDD calculator
 
I think this is an important question for weight loss success. Do you account for exercise when figuring your daily calorie allotment? It seems though, if you have been exercising before JUDDD, and continue to do so during JUDDD, maybe it is best not to account for exercise? Because your weight is your weight with exercise. Does this make sense at all?

Carly 02-05-2013 10:40 AM

I think it is very individual. Certainly if you are training for an Iron Man/Woman you would probably need to increase calories somewhat, but my understanding is most of us who are average exercisers really overestimate what we burn from our exercise and yes, I agree. If your weight is stable with the exercise you currently do and you want to lose weight with the help of exercise it does not make sense to add the calories back in. This is one of those YMMV kind of things. My first thought is to use the calories at the 20% WLM with no exercise and the re-evaluate in 2-3 weeks if you are not seeing the results you want. Just my opinion.

adillenal 02-05-2013 10:51 AM

I use the 20% figure with no exercise since I do not do formal exercise. I am active but I do not like to exercise. Every once in awhile I will start doing walking tapes and will do that for a week or so and then slack off but I do not change my calories based on walking everyday.

hot-in-texas 02-05-2013 10:56 AM

this is what I am thinking too Carly and Adi. Although I personally do not exercise, besides walking-and not much of that really, I would think it might be frustrating for JUDDDers who are basing their calories on exercising, and not having success. The JUDDD theory makes sense, but I don't know if any studies have been done on increasing calories due to exercise.

KeirasMom 02-05-2013 11:05 AM

I don't increase my calories due to exercise either. I do track calories burned and net calories, just for my own information.

melanie09 02-05-2013 11:25 AM

I've asked this question before and am still up in the air on what I think about it.... sometimes I worry about how big my calorie deficit is on up days when I've worked out.

zipp2play 02-05-2013 12:21 PM

I use the step just above NO exercise in the % for figuring calories to eat on JUDDD. I do not track calories burned or add on any exercise days.

melanie09 02-05-2013 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zipp2play (Post 16241193)
I use the step just above NO exercise in the % for figuring calories to eat on JUDDD. I do not track calories burned or add on any exercise days.

That's an idea! How much do you workout? I have been consistently doing 3+ 1 hour workouts each week for over a month now. Pretty intense ones, soon as one part of my body stops being sore, something else takes its place... :)

Yennie 02-05-2013 10:37 PM

My 2 cents on exercise - long, sorry.
 
So, obviously, if I were an expert on this, I would not be here, needing JUDDD and trying to lose 60#. With that said, here is my viewpoint on exercise based on some experience, science and opinion formed talking to others and by using myself as a guinea pig.

First, as previously stated, many people *WAY* over-estimate the amount of calories burned by exercise. The little online calculators over-estimate it. How many calories burned at a given exercise and a given intensity are so individual. If we all climbed on a treadmill, set to 5, and ran 1 mile, we'd all burn different amounts of calories. There are systems you can wear on your body that track things like heart rate & sweat that will give you the closest estimate possible so unless you have one of those, its really tough to accurately gauge the number of calories burned.

Of course, for traditional LC diets, there is no need to replace calories because calories aren't counted. The high(er) protein levels will help support & rebuild muscle.

I've done a restricted calorie, product-shake based weight loss before and this program advocated adding back in calories. The baseline was 1200 per day and they wanted you to add back if you exercised because, the thought being, you're putting yourself into starvation mode if your net is below 1200. I did it, it seemed to work (course, I was also going to 60-90 minutes of hot yoga 4-6 times per week, so who knows, it could have been all yoga, no shakes accounting for the pounds lost during this period). However, I do not think this "starvation mode" theory applied to JUDDD because of the swings & the SIRTs.

Having trained for and successfully completed many endurance events in my pre-baby life, I can tell you that most people are not told, by sports nutritionists, to "add back" calories. In fact, may top endurance coaches and trainers actively caution amateur athletes from doing exactly this as people tend to sabotage themselves. They think "Hey, I ran 3 miles today, so I can eat some pizza!" and they then proceed to eat twice as much pizza as they would have normally, whilst only having burnt off enough to account for 1/2 what they would have eaten normally. Maybe experienced JUDDDers would not do this, because we're used to counting calories, but you're still having the question of what did you burn to replace?

Since we all know that 1-200 cal differences in our UDs can make or break your success on the scale, this is the decision that *I* have made regarding exercise:

I will attempt to eat high quality protein and provide some complex carbs to refuel my muscles after I run. I will eat high quality protein after strength training to provide the fuel my muscles need to repair and grow stronger. During long runs (more than an hour), I will use my carb Goo things to refuel to sustain my run (they're basically like carbs in a pouch, 100 cals each, gives your muscles fuel & energy during the run which, in theory, you're burning as you run).

I will not add back in calories to account for exercise, since I never did this before when I was running & training. However, I am also not going to count the goo packets towards my UD goals (Im only doing long runs on UDs - which I will always have 1 of per weekend which is when I have time for my long runs.) So, in a way, that's kinda like adding back in the cals, but I'm only doing it on my long runs, so only once a week. And I only use 1-2 goos per long run, so its 100-200 cals, and since I'm going 6-10 miles, I'm sure I'm burning those 100-200 cals.

Sorry - long post.

hot-in-texas 02-05-2013 11:26 PM

:hugs:
Quote:

Originally Posted by Yennie (Post 16242449)
So, obviously, if I were an expert on this, I would not be here, needing JUDDD and trying to lose 60#. With that said, here is my viewpoint on exercise based on some experience, science and opinion formed talking to others and by using myself as a guinea pig.

First, as previously stated, many people *WAY* over-estimate the amount of calories burned by exercise. The little online calculators over-estimate it. How many calories burned at a given exercise and a given intensity are so individual. If we all climbed on a treadmill, set to 5, and ran 1 mile, we'd all burn different amounts of calories. There are systems you can wear on your body that track things like heart rate & sweat that will give you the closest estimate possible so unless you have one of those, its really tough to accurately gauge the number of calories burned.

Of course, for traditional LC diets, there is no need to replace calories because calories aren't counted. The high(er) protein levels will help support & rebuild muscle.



I've done a restricted calorie, product-shake based weight loss before and this program advocated adding back in calories. The baseline was 1200 per day and they wanted you to add back if you exercised because, the thought being, you're putting yourself into starvation mode if your net is below 1200. I did it, it seemed to work (course, I was also going to 60-90 minutes of hot yoga 4-6 times per week, so who knows, it could have been all yoga, no shakes accounting for the pounds lost during this period). However, I do not think this "starvation mode" theory applied to JUDDD because of the swings & the SIRTs.

Having trained for and successfully completed many endurance events in my pre-baby life, I can tell you that most people are not told, by sports nutritionists, to "add back" calories. In fact, may top endurance coaches and trainers actively caution amateur athletes from doing exactly this as people tend to sabotage themselves. They think "Hey, I ran 3 miles today, so I can eat some pizza!" and they then proceed to eat twice as much pizza as they would have normally, whilst only having burnt off enough to account for 1/2 what they would have eaten normally. Maybe experienced JUDDDers would not do this, because we're used to counting calories, but you're still having the question of what did you burn to replace?

Since we all know that 1-200 cal differences in our UDs can make or break your success on the scale, this is the decision that *I* have made regarding exercise:

I will attempt to eat high quality protein and provide some complex carbs to refuel my muscles after I run. I will eat high quality protein after strength training to provide the fuel my muscles need to repair and grow stronger. During long runs (more than an hour), I will use my carb Goo things to refuel to sustain my run (they're basically like carbs in a pouch, 100 cals each, gives your muscles fuel & energy during the run which, in theory, you're burning as you run).

I will not add back in calories to account for exercise, since I never did this before when I was running & training. However, I am also not going to count the goo packets towards my UD goals (Im only doing long runs on UDs - which I will always have 1 of per weekend which is when I have time for my long runs.) So, in a way, that's kinda like adding back in the cals, but I'm only doing it on my long runs, so only once a week. And I only use 1-2 goos per long run, so its 100-200 cals, and since I'm going 6-10 miles, I'm sure I'm burning those 100-200 cals.

Sorry - long post.

So your answer is no? :rofl::rofl::rofl::hyst:

ETA jk yennie I love your long posts!:hugs:

Yennie 02-05-2013 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hot-in-texas (Post 16242484)
:hugs:

So your answer is no? :rofl::rofl::rofl::hyst:

ETA jk yennie I love your long posts!:hugs:

LOL, yeah, its no. But I'm a huge "WHY" person, so I feel the need to explain every little thing...I think I probably drive some of my clients nuts with the why, why, why of everything. But I can't stand the "do this because I said so" approach! :)

thank you. :heart:

melanie09 02-06-2013 04:34 AM

Good post Yennie!

zipp2play 02-06-2013 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by melanie09 (Post 16241944)
That's an idea! How much do you workout? I have been consistently doing 3+ 1 hour workouts each week for over a month now. Pretty intense ones, soon as one part of my body stops being sore, something else takes its place... :)

I get in 5 miles a day 5 days a week (M-F) and do 1 1/2 hours of weight training a week.

zipp2play 02-06-2013 09:29 AM

I will also say, for me 99% of what I lose has to do with what I put in my mouth...NOT the exercise I do. For years I ran and ran, in amounts of up to 45-50 miles in a week. Trained for two 1/2 marathons. All that movement, calorie burning and made no changes to my eating. I lost NOTHING! I didn't go down at all! Finally, in my 42 years of living, I have come to the realization, I cannot OUT EXERCISE what I eat....no matter how much I do. So now, I move because I LOVE it! Dh and I get in 3.2 miles in every morning and over my lunch hour I get in another 2 miles with a friend. Just last month I added back in weight training just to tone up certain areas!

Not sure why it took me so very long to realize all this, I guess I am a slow learner!

sunday 02-06-2013 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zipp2play (Post 16243161)
I will also say, for me 99% of what I lose has to do with what I put in my mouth...NOT the exercise I do. For years I ran and ran, in amounts of up to 45-50 miles in a week. Trained for two 1/2 marathons. All that movement, calorie burning and made no changes to my eating. I lost NOTHING! I didn't go down at all! Finally, in my 42 years of living, I have come to the realization, I cannot OUT EXERCISE what I eat....no matter how much I do. So now, I move because I LOVE it! Dh and I get in 3.2 miles in every morning and over my lunch hour I get in another 2 miles with a friend. Just last month I added back in weight training just to tone up certain areas!

Not sure why it took me so very long to realize all this, I guess I am a slow learner!

I have the exact same experience. Very frustrating to say the least. :mad:

Although, I do love running, if the weather doesn't cooperate, I would rather rebound & KB. :)

LadyKT 02-06-2013 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zipp2play (Post 16243161)
I will also say, for me 99% of what I lose has to do with what I put in my mouth...NOT the exercise I do. For years I ran and ran, in amounts of up to 45-50 miles in a week. Trained for two 1/2 marathons. All that movement, calorie burning and made no changes to my eating. I lost NOTHING! I didn't go down at all! Finally, in my 42 years of living, I have come to the realization, I cannot OUT EXERCISE what I eat....no matter how much I do. So now, I move because I LOVE it! Dh and I get in 3.2 miles in every morning and over my lunch hour I get in another 2 miles with a friend. Just last month I added back in weight training just to tone up certain areas!

Not sure why it took me so very long to realize all this, I guess I am a slow learner!

Same here. Sadly though, i'm learning that I can't eat everything I want if it fits my calorie budget. I grew up a dancer - active at that. Never really over ate or had an ED, but I never was skinny either. I remember eating a lot of cookies and sweets as a kid. But didn't really care for chips much. I'm sure I probably burned off the calories of the cookies/sweets/junk, but I still was overweight from it.

Luna Loca 02-06-2013 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zipp2play (Post 16243161)
I will also say, for me 99% of what I lose has to do with what I put in my mouth...NOT the exercise I do. For years I ran and ran, in amounts of up to 45-50 miles in a week. Trained for two 1/2 marathons. All that movement, calorie burning and made no changes to my eating. I lost NOTHING! I didn't go down at all! Finally, in my 42 years of living, I have come to the realization, I cannot OUT EXERCISE what I eat....no matter how much I do. So now, I move because I LOVE it! Dh and I get in 3.2 miles in every morning and over my lunch hour I get in another 2 miles with a friend. Just last month I added back in weight training just to tone up certain areas!

Not sure why it took me so very long to realize all this, I guess I am a slow learner!

Quoted for truth.

When I was 250+ pounds, I biked ove 1000 miles in one year. Never lost an ounce. That was frustrating.

I exercise now not because of the calorie burn, which I figure for me is much lower than average, but because I like what it does for my shape, for my state of mind and for my biochemistry. I feel better after a good long walk. My body is tighter and more toned because I do Callanetics. I do track exercise minutes, and the tracker gives me a calories burned estimate, but I NEVER calculate it back into my allotted calories.

hot-in-texas 02-06-2013 05:37 PM

I admire all of you who exercise. I remember being in PE class in HS, and it really did make you feel better, and have a harder body. I wish I were motivated like all of you. It is inspiring to near your exercise stories. Biking 1000 miles in a year?? Running miles an miles and marathons? During your lunch break too? I am in awe

Luna Loca 02-06-2013 06:15 PM

Sher, a journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step. I never set out to be a massive exerciser, it has just happened. I always hated PE class too. In fact, I was so stubborn about not participating I failed PE one semester (who FAILS P.E.????? My parents asked me that repeatedly) and had to take it in the summer, which was worse.

Hated to exercise. Now I love it.

grammyw/kitties 02-06-2013 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hot-in-texas (Post 16244363)
I admire all of you who exercise. I remember being in PE class in HS, and it really did make you feel better, and have a harder body. I wish I were motivated like all of you. It is inspiring to near your exercise stories. Biking 1000 miles in a year?? Running miles an miles and marathons? During your lunch break too? I am in awe

It seems to me that I have started more exercise plans than I care to think about and it was only this time...1 time in 57 years that I look forward to going to the gym and I enjoy a fast 4.0 mph walk. I take turns at 3mph and 4 mph going 1mion and 2min ...never have I actually enjoyed the workout usually 45 min to 1 hr..Most people don't like to exercise but it helps to find something you like to do. You don't have to exercise eating this way but the more muscle you have the faster you lose;) do what makes you feel good:cool:

LadyKT 02-06-2013 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hot-in-texas (Post 16244363)
I admire all of you who exercise. I remember being in PE class in HS, and it really did make you feel better, and have a harder body. I wish I were motivated like all of you. It is inspiring to near your exercise stories. Biking 1000 miles in a year?? Running miles an miles and marathons? During your lunch break too? I am in awe

I say, don't do anything you don't like. Like dancing? Do it. Like skating? do it? Hate running? Don't do it! You're more likely to stick to something you enjoy doing rather than something you find torturous and are more likely to do it for longer in a session if you're having fun. KWIM?

Heck even walking around the block a few times listening to your favorite songs is something. Something is better than nothing!

hot-in-texas 02-07-2013 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyKT (Post 16244868)
I say, don't do anything you don't like. Like dancing? Do it. Like skating? do it? Hate running? Don't do it! You're more likely to stick to something you enjoy doing rather than something you find torturous and are more likely to do it for longer in a session if you're having fun. KWIM?

Heck even walking around the block a few times listening to your favorite songs is something. Something is better than nothing!

Thx for the advice:). I just need to not be so lazy! I am going to try to get out and walk every day for now and then when it warms up a little, maybe use my son's bike for exercise.

hot-in-texas 02-07-2013 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grammyw/kitties (Post 16244552)
It seems to me that I have started more exercise plans than I care to think about and it was only this time...1 time in 57 years that I look forward to going to the gym and I enjoy a fast 4.0 mph walk. I take turns at 3mph and 4 mph going 1mion and 2min ...never have I actually enjoyed the workout usually 45 min to 1 hr..Most people don't like to exercise but it helps to find something you like to do. You don't have to exercise eating this way but the more muscle you have the faster you lose;) do what makes you feel good:cool:

That's so great Grammy!:)

hot-in-texas 02-07-2013 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luna Loca (Post 16244430)
Sher, a journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step. I never set out to be a massive exerciser, it has just happened. I always hated PE class too. In fact, I was so stubborn about not participating I failed PE one semester (who FAILS P.E.????? My parents asked me that repeatedly) and had to take it in the summer, which was worse.

Hated to exercise. Now I love it.

That is too funny! Who fails PE? Lol

Carly 02-07-2013 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hot-in-texas (Post 16245072)
That is too funny! Who fails PE? Lol

I almost did! We had a few weeks of rope climbing and then this trust thing were you had to fall off the bleachers backward and let your classmates catch you- well I refused! I'm scared of heights and didn't trust my classmates! I didn't fail, but the PE teacher threatened.

hot-in-texas 02-07-2013 10:20 AM

There's no way inheck I would have done that either Carly!!

Kissa 02-07-2013 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by melanie09 (Post 16241040)
I've asked this question before and am still up in the air on what I think about it.... sometimes I worry about how big my calorie deficit is on up days when I've worked out.

Melanie, your body doesn't know it has a calorie deficit, it can't count.

When your body need energy it uses the energy it has already stored, some of which is hopefully fat. It doesn't matter that you have only taken in fewer calories that day. Your body is a clever machine, it has been saving up for a 'rainy day'.

We lose weight better when we exercise on an empty stomach. Very few of us would keel over after exercise unless we have other health issues or have been undernourished for a looong time.

As has already been said, if you are training for an Iron Man, then naturally things would be different.

I always exercise on an empty stomach and did so long before I started JUDDD. I feel nauseous if I jump around with food inside me, even a little. I am 65 and I never have any issues with exercising empty.

melanie09 02-07-2013 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kissa (Post 16245768)
Melanie, your body doesn't know it has a calorie deficit, it can't count.

When your body need energy it uses the energy it has already stored, some of which is hopefully fat. It doesn't matter that you have only taken in fewer calories that day. Your body is a clever machine, it has been saving up for a 'rainy day'.

We lose weight better when we exercise on an empty stomach. Very few of us would keel over after exercise unless we have other health issues or have been undernourished for a looong time.

As has already been said, if you are training for an Iron Man, then naturally things would be different.

I always exercise on an empty stomach and did so long before I started JUDDD. I feel nauseous if I jump around with food inside me, even a little. I am 65 and I never have any issues with exercising empty.

Thank you,I understand what you mean... My main worry is with JUDDD I don't want to go into starvation mode if I'm not getting "enough" calories on my UD as well as my DD? Like you I don't have any problems working out on an empty stomach. I just don't want my metabolism to come to a screeching halt, this is kinda TMI, but I rarely have to "go" anymore. Though I'm sure taking in less means there's less to come back out too...

Kissa 02-07-2013 01:03 PM

What are you numbers for UDs and DDs? If you are eating as recommended amounts starvation mode shouldn't happen, but it is wise to be aware.

I have been reading Mike Mosley's 5:2 Fast Diet and he talks at length about not eating back exercise calories.

Too much to quote here but worth looking at the book if you can find it. He talks a lot about Alternate Day Fasting too.

melanie09 02-07-2013 06:30 PM

I'm trying 2000 on UD and under 400 DD.


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