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-   -   Maybe I should be more careful with carbs? (blood results) (http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/juddd/794871-maybe-i-should-more-careful-carbs-blood-results.html)

calichris 01-19-2013 11:05 AM

Maybe I should be more careful with carbs? (blood results)
 
Hi BUDDDs,

I had some blood work done last Spring, before JUDDD, and again this week after 6 months of JUDDD. In between I've lost 49 pounds and over 8 BMI points.

The good news: total cholesterol was already fine, but went down 19 points. LDL (bad cholesterol) went down 23 points.

The not-so-good news: trigycerides, although still in the healthy range, went up 34 points, but what I'm most concerned about is that fasting glucose went up from 99 (top of "normal" range) to 103 (impaired fasting glucose or "pre-diabetic" range).

I know it's only 4 points up for the glucose, but I'm disappointed that it went up considering that I've lost a good chunk of weight in the meantime. The thing that really puzzles me is that I was eating high carb and unhealthy diet for the first (lower) test. Now I'm eating low carb on down days and not worrying about carbs on up days, which is still an improvement. :dunno:

(In case anyone's wondering, the day before my recent blood test was a modified down day. I fasted breakfast and lunch and had dinner at a Beni-hana type place ... small salad, broth, fried rice, grilled scallops and veggies, 5 pieces of sushi rolls. Nothing that I would think would have a negative effect on the test.)

I'll talk to my doctor about it when I see her on Friday, but I just thought I'd throw this out there and see what the BUDDDs make of it.

Flutter 01-19-2013 11:11 AM

Ugh, I have no tips or anything but am worried about this myself. I'm due for a physical in March. Last time I had one with my blood work done, I was doing southbeach and ate no white stuff at all. My numbers were great. I'm a bit nervous this time since I'm not restricting on my UDs.

Let us know what your doc says and (((hugs))) to you! It's stressful worrying about what your numbers mean and all that. You've done a great job losing all that weight & reducing cholesterol!!!

Carly 01-19-2013 11:29 AM

I'm sorry to hear that. See what your doc says. In light of the weight loss maybe she will recheck the fasting BG. Could have been a freak thing. How was your A1C? I feel that is more important since it is long range.

Turtle2005 01-19-2013 11:34 AM

Higher morning fasting blood glucose levels do happen to some people who are eating low carb diets. It has happened to me. Here is a possible explanation for the phenomenon over at the Hyperlipid blog.

Hyperlipid: Physiological insulin resistance (3); Clarification of FBG

I don't know if he is correct or not, but it sounds logical. I do know that in my own case, my early morning fasting blood sugars are higher than I'd like, but they are good for the rest of the day if I stay low carb. If my doctor questions my FBG I'll ask him to check my h1Ac levels, which is a measure of the overall average blood sugar level. Based on my own testing I'm confident my h1ac number will be good, and not at all indicative of diabetes.

calichris 01-19-2013 11:35 AM

Carly, I've never had an A1C. Maybe she'll order one for me after this? I was at risk of developing diabetes (with all the research into PCOS and the insulin resistance link), but so far all had been good and I feel like I've gotten healthier, so I don't get it.

penguinpower 01-19-2013 12:46 PM

Fried rice and sushi - I know a type II friend of mine who can't eat rice because it does such a number on her blood sugar. Could be a culprit.

Librarygirl 01-19-2013 12:53 PM

I was thinking the same thing. Fried rice the night before might have brought the blood sugar nos up. Did you also eat california rolls with the rice wrapped around, or just sushi?

calichris 01-19-2013 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by penguinpower (Post 16206522)
Fried rice and sushi - I know a type II friend of mine who can't eat rice because it does such a number on her blood sugar. Could be a culprit.

Maybe, but I didn't have a large amount, and the total carbs for that day were way, way under what they would have been for my earlier test, so it just makes no sense to me!

eta: I could possibly have some sort of rice sensitivity, but given how many unrefined carbs I was eating before for the lower result test it just doesn't seem that likely? I'm not really low carb now, but I definitely wasn't then.

Librarygirl 01-19-2013 01:15 PM

Not sure and not familiar with glucose tests...making me think I should have one, lol.

svenskamae 01-19-2013 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turtle2005 (Post 16206414)
Higher morning fasting blood glucose levels do happen to some people who are eating low carb diets. It has happened to me. Here is a possible explanation for the phenomenon over at the Hyperlipid blog.

Hyperlipid: Physiological insulin resistance (3); Clarification of FBG

I don't know if he is correct or not, but it sounds logical. I do know that in my own case, my early morning fasting blood sugars are higher than I'd like, but they are good for the rest of the day if I stay low carb. If my doctor questions my FBG I'll ask him to check my h1Ac levels, which is a measure of the overall average blood sugar level. Based on my own testing I'm confident my h1ac number will be good, and not at all indicative of diabetes.

:goodpost: Thanks for providing this link. I was going to point to the same source. Eating low carb can lead to physiological, not pathological (i.e., not an indicator of disease) dumping of glucose by the liver, sort of a "dawn phenomenon" in the non-diabetic, and possibly the same thing might be triggered by intermittent fasting or JUDDD down day low calorie consumption. If I were you, I'd ask the doctor for an HbA1C test as a more reliable measure of blood glucose levels.

svenskamae 01-19-2013 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calichris (Post 16206545)
Maybe, but I didn't have a large amount, and the total carbs for that day were way, way under what they would have been for my earlier test, so it just makes no sense to me!

eta: I could possibly have some sort of rice sensitivity, but given how many unrefined carbs I was eating before for the lower result test it just doesn't seem that likely? I'm not really low carb now, but I definitely wasn't then.

The body, including the liver, makes lots of adjustments to maintain homeostasis. It's quite possible that fasting or eating close to fasting-level low calories some days can trigger glucose dumping by the liver, just as low carb can. Those of us following JUDDD aren't the standard population for medical tests; they are premised on people eating a standard American diet of around 2000 calories every day. That our results may differ from the test norm isn't necessarily a bad thing; it means that we may need a different test, such as HbA1C, to get reliable results.

Carly 01-19-2013 03:32 PM

When I started JUDDD last year my A1C was 8.9 and my BG could easily be over 380 when I tested at different times. I was also on a Byeatta injection 2x per day- yuck! No fun and I felt terrible All. The. Time. in a couple months I was off Byeatta and my most recent A1C was 6.5
I know that for some this is not a great number, but for me it is. No diabetes meds I eat whatever I want every other day and I've lost 67+ pounds. I have PCOS so very prone to high sugar. I call it a victory, but I will continue to have my A1C checked every few months.

LoCarbGal 01-19-2013 05:02 PM

Sorry about your concerning results Christina. I don't have any suggestions, but please do let us know what your Dr says.

calichris 01-27-2013 08:40 AM

Thanks for the interesting ideas! The doctor said that blood sugar readings vary from day to day, so my results haven't necessarily gone up, but it's probably just the difference from one day to another. Although she did suggest avoiding sugar and reducing carbs :cry: she said losing weight and exercising more is really the best thing to do at this point. She will also do the A1C test for me in 3 months.

I had a moment of disappointment that my fun diet (JUDDD!) might not be as free as it had been, but then I decided to just make some small changes for now ... changes that should also help with weight loss. My plan is to be more careful/moderate with carbs on up days, add biotin and chromium piccolinate to my supplements to help with insulin resistance, and be consistent with exercise. And keep losing weight with JUDDD!

I'll be interested in the A1C, because my daytime numbers one or two hours after meals have been really great, but my morning fasting numbers are consistently elevated, which could support that "glucose dump" theory for low carbers or IFers?

piratejenny 01-27-2013 01:15 PM

Christina, I wouldn't worry at all about a difference between 99 & 103. :hugs: You can't do anything about it now, but when it was 99, it would have been great if your doctor had put you on metformin or started some sort of treatment for diabetes. My doctor told me I was "fine" when my fbg was 99, even though that is the VERY top of the range (100 is "pre" diabetic) and had been 78 when he first started treating me. I didn't have a copy of the labwork in front of me, or I would have started doing something sooner. He finally became concerned and said something to me when my numbers were around 140. :mad:

So, not to make you more worried, but the parameters for diagnosing diabetes are too high. If people were diagnosed when their fasting readings start getting above 92, maybe they could prevent it from progressing.

I'm just trying to say that 103 is not much of a progression from 99; I doubt your condition has gotten any worse since your lasts tests. You could be having readings of 99 or lower several times a week, and the 103 was a bit of a fluke. As others have already said, the A1c is more like an average of your blood sugar, and gives you a much better idea of how your plan is working than one isolated reading.

I've heard that triglycerides can rise when you're losing weight, because you're burning fat.

Glucose or liver dump supposedly occurs after you go 5 hours without eating.
(I'm sort of paraphrasing the following...it's something I looked into several months ago, so I might not be 100% scientifically correct...lol)
Diabetics over-produce an enzyme called glucose-6-phosphatase, which is involved in signaling the liver to dump glucose. One of the ways in which metformin works is by suppressing this enzyme. Pterostilbene and green bean coffee extract also suppress it.
(I guess that the livers of non-diabetics or people well-adapted to IF don't dump glucose as often, or don't dump as much.)

Great job on losing 49lbs in 6 months!!! :clap:

hot-in-texas 01-27-2013 01:51 PM

I hope this all works out for you Calichris. That does seem strange that the number went up and you have been eating less carbs? Do you exercise(sorry if you have already answered this). Maybe adding exercise could do the trick.
When I happened upon your thread, I pulled out the biometric screening guide that we had done at our work on Dec 12. At that point I hadn't started any dieting whatsoever, and my blood sugar was 101, and the nurse said it was fine. So I took her at her word. In guess it wasn't fine:annoyed:
Let us know what happens on your next visit.

sunday 01-27-2013 02:33 PM

PJ, I wonder if adding Green Coffee Bean for the budds who can't have ptero might be a good thing? :dunno: Some said that ptero made them have headache, would that be BS related?

piratejenny 01-27-2013 03:13 PM

Hmm, that might be a good option. I have a notebook that I make notes in about my supplements, and when I was doing research on ptero, I remembered that thing about glucose-6-phosphatase being mentioned in an article I'd read about GCBE----*before* Dr Oz! I'm a supplement hipster!!! :hyst:

BTW--An online store I like just started carrying bulk GCBE; $20 for 4oz. I've ordered some other herbs & stuff from them, and liked the quality. It's called ZNatural Foods. I ordered 1lb of lo han guo powder from them last week. It's hard to find that stuff undiluted with other sugars or fiber! I'm trying to quit Splenda and I don't like stevia. They have a really nummy coconut milk powder, which I like better than buying cans.

The headaches could be due to low blood sugar. But ptero made me feel hypoglycemic (weak & shaky), and I didn't get a headache. So who knows...so many things can cause headaches! :stars:

calichris 01-27-2013 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piratejenny (Post 16222857)

Great job on losing 49lbs in 6 months!!! :clap:

Thanks! (8 months total; 6 on JUDDD :))

Jenny, thanks!
I'd been researching, but that's the best one I've seen. I'm going to take this quote seriously:
But if you wait for a diabetes diagnosis before taking action, it is often too late. By the time your fasting blood sugar has reached 126 mg/dl (7.0 mmol/L) (the level at which most doctors will diagnose you) at least half of your beta cells may be dead and they may not be able to regenerate.

I'm going to follow their plan of using the post-meal glucose readings to determine which foods I can eat and how much of them. So far my beloved sushi rice is not looking good.:down:

Kissa 01-28-2013 08:05 AM

Christina, yet again I see JUDDD BUDDDs to the rescue. I'll be very interested to see how your next results pan out.

Sorry about the sushi rice! Stick with the Sashimi next time.:yummy:

Librarygirl 01-28-2013 08:12 AM

I have a general doc visit on Wed. morning. It will be my first time with this doctor. What tests do you think would be helpful for me? I don't suffer from anything that I am aware of, besides being overweight.

piratejenny 01-28-2013 09:43 AM

A1c
CRP (C-reactive protein; measures inflammation)

I get my liver enzymes because I'm on medication. I think it's also a good indication of how your body's working, regardless of how your doc interprets cholesterol, triglycerides, etc.

sterlinggirl 01-28-2013 09:57 AM

:hugs: but congrats on the the other numbers! :jumpjoy:

DD80 01-28-2013 10:00 AM

This just happened to me. I did a health assessment at work and my fasting glucose came back at 106. I'm usually in the 90 range...I think once it was 98 or something. I've also cleaned up my diet significantly in the last month or two, so it was surprising. My triglycerides, which are notoriously high (about 200 - genetically predisposed), were at 84, which I think is an all time low for me. So, I was so happy about that! But, then was like, what is up with glucose? I did the hA1C, since there is a history of diabetes in my family, and that was normal (don't remember the number off hand, but it was right in the middle of the range).

My sister, who is a registered dietition, told me that the hA1C is the controlling number here and that fasting blood glucose is not always accurate. It is pre-diabetic only after 3 consecutive fasting tests over 100, I believe. She said that since I take my thyroid and allergy pills in the am, that might have affected it (as some meds do). I also took a proleatic enzymes that morning, so who knows?

I'd like to think that my body is trying to process the extra sugars in the morning since I'm losing weight, but I don't know if that's true. :)

I hope that helps ease your mind.

svenskamae 01-28-2013 10:02 AM

Cindy, consider asking for a Vitamin D level test. If you are out in the sun even in the winter, then you are probably fine, but North Carolina seems a bit on the border of whether that might be a problem. (In Minnesota, it's a problem for most people.)

Kissa 01-28-2013 10:07 AM

I second that. I take Vitamin D3 but have had to guess how much. In the UK we don't get to just request tests like that. I am not complaining though I love our NHS. :)

Librarygirl 01-28-2013 11:39 AM

Cindy, we don't "get" to either. We ask and we pay, for *every* test. :D

Kissa 01-28-2013 12:19 PM

I understand that Cindy, lived in the States for a couple of years, but even if I ask I am unlikely to get it unless the GP sees symptoms that concern him.

Paying is not an option unless the GP refers you to a consultant. Too hard to explain all of the differences here. I could choose to go entirely privately but, as I say am a fan of the NHS.

calichris 01-28-2013 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svenskamae (Post 16224588)
Cindy, consider asking for a Vitamin D level test. If you are out in the sun even in the winter, then you are probably fine, but North Carolina seems a bit on the border of whether that might be a problem. (In Minnesota, it's a problem for most people.)

I second this. Even though I live in sunny California, my vitamin D was VERY low. Low D levels are associated with fatigue, hunger/cravings, weight gain/obesity etc. . . . I've been prescribed a weekly large dose for 10 weeks to get my levels up.

The dr. will probably order a fasting blood glucose. Might be hard to get an A1C right off, but you could ask?

Librarygirl 01-28-2013 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kissa (Post 16224888)
I understand that Cindy, lived in the States for a couple of years, but even if I ask I am unlikely to get it unless the GP sees symptoms that concern him.

Paying is not an option unless the GP refers you to a consultant. Too hard to explain all of the differences here. I could choose to go entirely privately but, as I say am a fan of the NHS.

I see what you mean. However, almost every time I've been to a doctor, any doctor, they seem to always talk me out of tests that they don't think is "necessary", or tell me it will be very expensive so I just forego it.:dunno:


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