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Old 01-09-2013, 10:58 AM   #1
Way too much time on my hands!
 
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To Maintain or Not To Maintain

. . . That is the question.

I was already kicking around some ideas, but Kimberly's thread got me really seriously thinking about this. I'd like the JUDDD BUDDD's input here.

I haven't been losing for a couple of weeks. Here's what's going on with me: Christmas, I allowed 3 UDs in a row and gained. I lost that within a week, but have been holding steady since.

I've started to exercise. I'm getting pretty good burns per my HRM, often over 500 calories. I've been exercising on UDs or DDs, depending on how I feel, so some days I end up with negative net calories. I've also seen an increase in hunger, but TOM has also decided to visit, so I don't know if it's because of the exercise, or because of TOM. I've been going over on my calories, though, and that's just not like me.

My crazy fingers have been acting up again. The chilblains are awful. My initial finger which I was nearly referred to a surgeon for has improved dramatically, but now I have 3 fingers on my right hand which will barely bend due to swelling and pain. One has split itself open to relieve the pressure (sorry if TMI).

I'm within 10 pounds of my goal weight of 160. I'm pretty sure I've decided to go into maintenance for a while, even though I really wanted to see that 160 before Valentine's day. I'm thinking my body's fighting me for a reason, either because of my increased exercise, or because of this crazy illness, or whatever the reason. I don't see the Rheumatologist again for another couple of weeks, and will find out then if there are other treatment options, or if he still wants me to see a surgeon.

So . . . I ran my numbers through the calculator. For grins, I used my goal weight since I'm so close, and came up with these ranges:

With little or no exercise:
UD 1786, DD 357 - 893 (20% to 50%)

With light exercise (1 - 3 days per week)
UD 2046, DD 409 - 1023 (20% to 50%)

We generally recommend using the little or no exercise option for WLM, and I've never eaten back my exercise calories, but I'm wondering since I've been so hungry if I might need them. Or perhaps I'm just rebelling and trying to convince myself I need them when I really don't.

Does anybody have a recommendation? Should I continue as I am and just hope for the best, or go into maintenance. If I go into maintenance, should I shoot for the no exercise option or the light exercise option?

Any input and/or personal experience would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:05 AM   #2
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Ha, I'm right with you trying to figure out what to do next-we can be confused together As of this morning I'm also 10lbs from goal and feeling major stress about what to do for maintenance. I love JUDDD but keep hitting a mental wall when I think about doing it for maintenance. I think I may just need a break from my rotations. I've looked at a ridiculous number of plans over the past few days to see if something different grabs my attention, but keep coming back to JUDDD. I'm just a big dieting mess right now lol.
So no advice but lots of as you figure out what will work best for you!

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Old 01-09-2013, 11:08 AM   #3
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I think you should definitely make a modification, Dawn, since you are having problems with both hunger and chilblain pain.

How about trying for maintenance level calories with the no exercise option, and seeing if you feel better that way, and have less problem with hunger then? You can always up to the light exercise option the following week, if the no exercise option isn't working well enough. Also, there's a lot of overlap in the ranges for the two maintenance options--maybe try somewhere in the middle, like 500-750 calories on your down days?
You know your body best, so you would probably make a good educated guess of where to start.

I hope you find something that will help with your chilblains. Are you able to wear gloves on your poor fingers while working? Are you able to stay consistently warm at home, work, and at the gym? According to wikipedia (which is not necessarily a great source, I know), exercise to improve circulation and healthy diet are supposed to help, so maybe continuing exercise and upping calories is what you need.
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:11 AM   #4
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If maintenance is the goal, I say, increase the numbers and see what happens. If you aren't wanting to stress about trying to lose the last 10, why not?

Honestly, I have exercised the entire time on JUDDD and have always just used the 1-3 day level for exercise. I never ever count excise calories burned to figure if I should add something in or to determine if I am "negative" for the day. I just like to move. Back when I was just counting calories I did figure the calories I burned. I can tell you, I used to run 40+ miles a week (some weeks) during training. My long runs were right at 15 miles on a Saturday. I couldn't LOSE 1 stinking POUND! I started JUDDD dropped my exercise down to walking 5 miles a day and 20 pounds flew off of me.

I am a firm believer in the fact that FOR ME, 99% of weight loss is what I put in my mouth, it simply FOR ME has nothing to do with how little or how much I move.

Did I get off subject??? Probably, sorry!
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:17 AM   #5
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Congrats Dawn! I would love to be facing this dillema!

I think you should give each a try. IOW, just try the "with exercise", but on UD only eat to satisfaction. I know this sounds weird but you have JUDDD for a year, so that internal leptin indicator is usually spot on. I believe you will find that you do not eat much more than the 1786 and will feel great there. If you keep losing, then you may need to up it. On DD, I would shoot for 800 and if you are working out on DD, most definitely.

When I leave it to my internal "hunger scale", I am amazed at how my numbers still remain true.
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:18 AM   #6
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Dawn, I think you're just struggling because you are so close to goal and you want it so bad. My thoughts (for what they're worth)

1. It occurs to me that your body may not be releasing weight because it now thinks it's in starvation mode. Maybe with the added exercise, it needs the additional calories. No way to know for sure until you try it.

2. You've been especially diligent in the exercising, going to the gym almost every day. Maybe you need a day in between to allow your body to rest and regenerate.

3. Holiday eating, TOM and exercise combined definitely would cause a bit of a "stall", so that's not all that unexpected, although tough to deal with, I know. I was just there too and finally think I flushed all the extra fluid yesterday.

I sure hope your chilblains start healing. The extra DD calories may help with that too, who knows. If you're getting icy fingers on DDs (I know I am!) would that contribute to it?

Whatever you decide, don't stress yourself out over the goal you had in your mind. You are soooooooooo close, and you'll get there. Easily before warm weather for sure. For right now, maybe your body just needs a little TLC.
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:19 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zipp2play View Post
I am a firm believer in the fact that FOR ME, 99% of weight loss is what I put in my mouth, it simply FOR ME has nothing to do with how little or how much I move.
Did I get off subject??? Probably, sorry!
I agree!
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:20 AM   #8
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Dawn, exercise is a real game-changer when it comes to losing weight. It's so much more complicated than calories in, calories burned. There's muscle mass gain, shifts in how you retain fluids, and all kinds of other fluctuations. I have never found it to be a simple matter of burning x number of calories leads to x amount of weight loss. So the exercise could be complicating things, the various physical issues, like thyroid, and the thing with your fingers could be complicating things, who knows.

I do firmly believe that exercise is a good thing. I'm much smaller than my weight would indicate (no one believes me when I tell them what I weigh--they all think I weigh less) and that's 100% due to exercise. Other than my tummy, which I suspect I will never be 100% happy with, I'm pretty pleased with my physique. So I'm glad to hear you're exercising, I think it will pay off for you in the long run, despite the short run havoc with the scale that it tends to play.

I can't advise you on what you should do because only you know whether you'd be happy taking a maintenance break--or calling goal and going into maintenance full time--or not.

I also can't advise you on the eating your exercise calories or not. Adding in exercise does make you hungrier, studies have shown that. You may have to balance out your need to eat and your weight on the scale...if you eat to hunger and the weight begins to creep on, you can reduce the food, change the exercise (different types of exercise make me more or less hungry. Swimming makes me ravenous, Callanetics seems to have little to no effect on my appetite), or both. Welcome to the experimental world of maintenance. Like WLM, you'll just have to try it out and see what works for your body.
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:33 AM   #9
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Thanks BUDDDs. It's as I suspected; I just need to experiment. I think I'll try the little or no exercise option with 40 - 50% DDs and see what happens. Of course I may have a whoosh tomorrow and change my mind.

Holy moly, I make things so difficult sometimes. I overthink when I should just play with the numbers and see what happens. LCG, you're absolutely right that I'm second guessing because I'm close to goal and want it so badly. I've taken maintenance breaks before and not agonized over the decision.

Re: chilblains - I'm taking medication to increase circulation and it seemed to work well for a couple of weeks, but I'm back where I was before I started taking it. I'm hoping the exercise will help too. I have my heater going under my desk all day at work. I'm currently wearing a down jacket at my desk with my heater going. I have gloves I wear most of the time when I'm outside, though they're a pain to type with, so I usually don't have them on at work. What a crazy issue to have. It certainly could be worse though, so I'm counting my blessings. Each of you are among them.
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:40 AM   #10
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I'm interested to hear what the JBs say too.

I agree with Luna-- exercise changes things a lot. I think it's great to do for your heart and muscles, but then you do have more hunger and body-composition changes.

I think if you're going to exercise, up your calories a bit, but 2000 seems like a LOT, given that I'm over 240+lbs and my calories are around that number. I'm thinking like, a snack's worth of extra calories (200?).

I'd also say, ease into it. With the circulation/chilblains situation, I'd want that under control before changing too much else about your daily life, ya know?

Lastly-- seems a lot of people go into maintenance, and wind up losing a bit anyway, but over time-- not x pounds per day or week, but maybe 1lb per month or something? So, you might still lose or even out, even in maintenance mode.

I guess what I'm saying is, don't change too many things at once, b/c you won't know what's causing any results you see. Exercise and keep your food the same, or go into maintenance but don't exercise much just yet... kwim?

I'm just so tickled for you, you look great, you sound like things are good (fingers aside), and having you as a role model is just so helpful for me!!!


S.
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:54 AM   #11
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Dawn, I'm sorry to hear about your hands. I don't have the experience with maintenance to be able to offer you any suggestions on that, but I was wondering, have you taken your measurements since you started exercising? I ask because when I started a weight training program for women a year or so ago I stopped losing weight on the scale for six weeks, but in that six weeks I had lost 14 inches and dropped a size and a half in clothes even though my weight was the same. After that the scale started showing losses again. Even if you do maintenence, with the exercise you could still be getting smaller. The measurements might be a nice extra way to encourage yourself when the scale isn't budging. I hope your hands feel better soon.
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Old 01-09-2013, 12:05 PM   #12
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Dawn, I'm sorry to hear about your hands. I don't have the experience with maintenance to be able to offer you any suggestions on that, but I was wondering, have you taken your measurements since you started exercising? I ask because when I started a weight training program for women a year or so ago I stopped losing weight on the scale for six weeks, but in that six weeks I had lost 14 inches and dropped a size and a half in clothes even though my weight was the same. After that the scale started showing losses again. Even if you do maintenence, with the exercise you could still be getting smaller. The measurements might be a nice extra way to encourage yourself when the scale isn't budging. I hope your hands feel better soon.
Yes!
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Old 01-09-2013, 12:27 PM   #13
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Exercise always made me eat more and when I didn't eat the exercise calories back I was starving!

I'm thinking your body is just in adjustment mode because you have added exercise so giving it a bit more time just may do the trick. If not then I suggest is you give it another week, regular rotation, and see what happens. If still standing still then I would up the calories on the days you exercise and give it another week and see what happens.

Could be you just need a rest?

And sending you healing light for those finger!
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Old 01-09-2013, 01:34 PM   #14
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Exercise always made me eat more and when I didn't eat the exercise calories back I was starving!
Exactly my experience. I have no good advice for you Dawn but I am sending lots of love and healing vibes your way!
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:42 PM   #15
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Just to echo some of the others - I play tennis semi-regularly and I will give myself an extra snack size meal on those days IF I am hungry, 100-300 cals. Exercise used to be an excuse to eat the fridge from top to bottom...

Also, often the hungries don't hit until the next day...don't be afraid to up your DD every once in a while if warranted by activity/hunger.
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:12 PM   #16
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I say go for the maintenance break for sure. Try both ways for 2 weeks to see what feels best. I'm so glad I took the maintenance break in December if for nothing more than piece of mind and knowing that it's totally possible and enjoyable to maintain on JUDDD. And, if you don't like the break after a week or 2... end the break! Lots of and my dear JB!
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Old 01-10-2013, 05:04 AM   #17
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"If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

In your case, sadly, your fingers are shouting "It's broke!" I vote for experimenting at the higher levels. You look like a fashion model. Don't sweat the last ten pounds - when your health is ready, they will go.
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Old 01-10-2013, 09:58 AM   #18
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Dawn we all have no doubt u will reach ur goal size, and stay there also!
Caz u r one tough, determined JUDDD BUD!
THat we all look up to.
Most people on this planet, with starting and keeping exercise will need an increase in food. Yikes i no, it bites. It does make since though.
Play with it, try different foods, it doesn't have to be a lot of calories.
But I do recommend eating something before u work out. Say 15-30 mins before. Ur body will thank u and ur just have a better w/o. So u don't get yukie while exercising - hate that to happen.
So sorry ur fingers are still a problem, I've wondering.
Sounds like ur doing everything u can.
My hubby keeps the heater at work under his desk as u.
Year around! Hot summer all the same. He does have circulation problem as well in his feet.
He has lonnng legs.
Myself I'm happy with my being in my size goal 8 pants, close to 133-135#.
I want to focus on not letting my number 139 wt. go up!
Could u feel comfortable seeing how maintaining/ fingers crossed ( no we do it for u not ur f crossed, ouch!
try maintaining til ur goal valentine day. It still will be ur goal.
We no u will figure out what's best for u. BE happy! We're proud of u.
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:56 PM   #19
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Dawn.. I know all to well how confused you are as to "what" to do.. I think if i did give you adivse.. which i dont normally do so.. i would say.. "listen to you body" If its hungry .. feed it.. dont worry about the numbers.. I often find that when i just eat cuz my body asked for it.. IE kind of light headed or cant consintrate.. I know its better to feed then to deprive it based on what my head has set forth for a goal.. I think if you relax a bit..that can take that edge off too... sooo.. Go for it.. Eat a lil more when you need it.. and dont when you dont feel you need it.. thats my adivse .. its all i got and this.. and lots and lots of love
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Old 01-10-2013, 01:03 PM   #20
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Dawn: Just sending and and hoping your fingers heal up soon.

Remember that any kind of internal inflamation or medical issue and even meds can stall weight loss. Focus on getting better and the weight will take care of itself when the time is right.
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Old 01-10-2013, 04:37 PM   #21
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I say eat back your calories if you intend to continue the exercise. You may not lose on the scale but I can bet you will lose inches. Your body will change shape, in a good way, and the scale won't matter.
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Old 01-11-2013, 03:09 AM   #22
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With everything being as tough as it is for you just now, I agree that you should listen to your body.

Try eating back those calories and see how it goes.

Take the time to value yourself and your family just now.
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Old 01-11-2013, 07:11 AM   #23
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Quote:
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Dawn: Just sending and and hoping your fingers heal up soon.

Remember that any kind of internal inflamation or medical issue and even meds can stall weight loss. Focus on getting better and the weight will take care of itself when the time is right.
Sending you more hugs.
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Old 01-11-2013, 07:34 AM   #24
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Hi Dawn. Just offering my 2 cents. If you are exercising 1-3 days per week, why not follow the calorie numbers that Dr. J recommends? That way you get 400-1000 calories on your DDs depending on weight loss or maintenance mode. It's there in black and white what he recommends, why complicate it? I would think your body needs the extra calories because of adding in exercise. Even if you just add protein it will help your muscles repair. You have come so far with only a few pounds left - you got this!!!
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Old 01-11-2013, 08:21 AM   #25
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I am trying mini-maintenance. MUMWLM (mixed-up-maintenance-weight-loss-mode). I'm shooting for 1800-800 or anything under 800 on DDs, letting hunger be my guide. I am on a DD today and just had 4 oz. 2% cottage cheese and a banana. It feels almost sinful to eat breakfast on a DD!
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Old 01-11-2013, 08:27 AM   #26
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I have noticed that when I start exercising weight loss stops for several weeks, but I feel so much better. Your body needs to move , so if you enjoy exercise do it.

You have a great calorie range. UD 1800 - 2000, DD 350 - 1000. My suggestion would be to stay in that range. Don't worry so much about keeping your DD super low every day. When you take the stress factor out of the equation you will find the level you are comfortable with. Since you are close to goal, does it really matter if it takes months to get the last 10 pounds off. You will be learning where your maintainence levels are while you ease your stress.
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Old 01-11-2013, 08:45 AM   #27
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Great advice, halos.
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Old 01-11-2013, 10:28 AM   #28
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One more person with 2 cents to add...

I agree with the maintenance mindset at this time. I would use the 1-3 days light exercise range. Do 2000 on UD and 1000 on DD and call it good. If you go less on DD, fine. If you find you need to eat breakfast to have a better workout, the cals are available. That's what I found when I started exercising more. Total cals? That's still 1500 average, for your height will still most likely produce weight loss toward your ultimate goal, albeit slowly. But this gives us a chance to adapt to new muscle being built, appetite fluctuations as we settle into our new exercise routines, etc.

Looking forward to hearing what you learn as you go!
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Old 01-11-2013, 11:18 AM   #29
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Without even reading most of the posts, I know you've gotten alot of good advice!!

I opt for the Maintenance Mode for a bit. With the added exercise and your fingers giving you trouble, your body may be rebelling. Plus, as I've mentioned, going into maintenace seemed to work so well for you last year. May just be the break your body needs right now while it gets used to the exercise AND being so close to goal.
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Old 01-11-2013, 12:35 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeirasMom View Post
I am trying mini-maintenance. MUMWLM (mixed-up-maintenance-weight-loss-mode). I'm shooting for 1800-800 or anything under 800 on DDs, letting hunger be my guide. I am on a DD today and just had 4 oz. 2% cottage cheese and a banana. It feels almost sinful to eat breakfast on a DD!
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