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Old 06-26-2013, 07:44 AM   #1651
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Hi KT! I already put cinnamon in coffee - I just put it in the filter with the coffee before it brews. Never thought of putting some chocolate in there too! I'm going to try this soon.

Very cool that you and DD are doing PH together!

Green bananas??? So much happens around here when I'm not looking LOL!
Green bananas = resistant starch. Sunday posts in the Perfect Health Diet thread about it. I did find a drop in my blood sugar from using bob's red mill potato starch.

PH seems to be the only method that works for me now.
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Old 06-26-2013, 12:19 PM   #1652
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It seems possible that you've stopped eating something that triggers your immune system. PH = extreme elimination diet.
That's possible but if it is a food intolerance, it has developed just within the last 4 months, because that's when the Lichen Aureus first appeared.

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Old 06-26-2013, 02:06 PM   #1653
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How many potatoes would you eat to lose 30 pounds?

600??? Gulp...

Heh heh heh...

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Old 06-26-2013, 02:10 PM   #1654
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How are you using/incorporating the unmodified potato starch, KT? I have some in the house, but haven't used it at all yet.
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Old 06-26-2013, 02:16 PM   #1655
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Eh, I don't need it when I'm doing the potato hack.

I'll put it in my smoothies when I resume those later. I need to get through some potatoes first!
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Old 06-26-2013, 02:19 PM   #1656
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It seems possible that you've stopped eating something that triggers your immune system. PH = extreme elimination diet.
I agree, we have food intolerances in our family and it sounds possible that you have illuminated something you react to. Maybe watch the foods you introduce back into your diet and see if there is a correlation.
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Old 06-26-2013, 04:41 PM   #1657
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I've always been suspicious of dairy. Although I love it now, I haven't always. I'm 1/8-1/4 Cherokee and Native Americans often have lactose intolerance. I don't to my knowledge, but as an infant, my mother said I drank little formula/milk from a bottle (sometimes spit it up), I never liked butter, milk, cream cheese, yogurt, any cheese or sour cream (not even vanilla ice cream) growing up. Didn't start really appreciating dairy until I was an adult and cooked more on my own. So I'm going to add dairy products back to my diet VERY slowly to see how that goes. If the red skin patches start up with a vengeance, I think I'll have my answer. I'm starting first with cream in coffee.

My derm said not much is really known about lichen aureus', so who knows if it might be related to food? But I do find it interesting that no new patches developed during the 10 days, as they were showing up almost daily the 3 months prior.
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Old 06-27-2013, 12:47 AM   #1658
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Buttoni, I'm doing my usual Buttinski.

I take the unmodified potato starch stirred into cold or room temperature water - it doesn't dissolve, so it has to be drunk before it settles out again. I don't have the 'spare' kcals to put it into a smoothie most days although on another UD, I might try putting it in some glucomannan pudding and assess whether it makes it gritty or is antagonistic to the setting.

I don't have a sense of how low carb you are (IYSWIM): <20carbs (total rather than nett) per day or more, nor how high fat (relative to SAD) your diet is. For some people, not all LCers, but some - and particularly women - I do wonder if there are some unusual corollaries of having comparatively low insulin levels on a usual basis.

I made some general speculations on a different topic in the Switchers and Healers thread. However, I've taken a skip through the literature and although nothing addresses this as such, there are some possible explanations that might relate to macronutrient ratios. A high fat diet (and although NK is (crudely) 75%-90% calories from fat most research studies in human don't go above 50% which might be more like a typical LC diet) is associated with the development of 'leaky gut' in some studies.

I speculate that this is a possible explanation why some of the NK women are experiencing GI issues or other systemic allergy-like symptoms. There's also some suggestion that chronically low insulin levels (and that is one of the goals of NK and, to some extent, LC) suppress nitric oxide - that helpful substance that has such a key role in relaxing blood vessel walls, contributing to immunology etc.

Now, you're not NK but I wonder if lower-than-typical insulin levels might be associated with a nitric oxide/immunology cascade for you that has manifested in lichen aureus at this stage in your life? Or, if the potato diet has reduced the leakage of other foodstuffs that are acting as low-grade irritants for you.

I may be completely off-track and I scampered through the literature to see if there was any support for my speculation - not to check if there's a mass of research that might indicate otherwise. I could well be thinking zebra when the hoofbeats indicate fibre, vitamin C, the joy of carbohydrate or something that is more readily associated with the potato.

Last edited by SlowSure; 06-27-2013 at 12:51 AM.. Reason: clarity
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Old 06-27-2013, 05:02 AM   #1659
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This is excellent thought. Jaminet's basis for PHD (Perfect Health Diet) and the inclusion of safe starches is along this same thought that vlc for a length of time, is not healthy for the gut and insulin levels. Most of the women that I have read from the group have testified to positive health changes and specifically, that their thyroid went back to normal, hair loss reversed, as well as insulin resistance, once they added in safe starches.

I was very low carb paleo prior to moving over and the difference in my health is quite remarkable.

1 to 2 tbsp of potato starch per day will help repair the gut. Also, if you can consume gelatin, bone broth, or kefir along w/ the starch, even better. It must be cold when consumed.
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Old 06-27-2013, 07:57 AM   #1660
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Hello, everyone... I'm still doing the Potato Hack, and finally losing. My PH days have gone like this:

Day 1 174.1 Morning weight, pre-PH
Day 2 173.6 -0.5
Day 3 173.9 +0.3
Day 4 174.8 +0.9
Day 5 173.7 -1.1
Day 6 172.4 -1.3 (back to LDW again)

So down 1.7 lbs overall in 5 full days after a rocky start (due to re-carbing?) and encouraged to continue a while longer, although I think I will have some eggs with my 2nd coffee this morning (sort of feeling the need for some protein).
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Old 06-27-2013, 08:20 AM   #1661
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WTG Jeanyyy! You go girl!

Thanks you so much Slow and Sunday. Your logic and rationale make perfectly good sense. Having read Diane Sanfilippo's Practical Paleo, I have a fair grasp of leaky gut. You have given me much food for thought, Slow. I think I need to reread her science section of the book and not write off Paleo just because I gained 10# doing it for 60 days of Whole30. But clearly I will not be able to eat fruit much at all if it is to work for me without major gains.

Clearly the Potato Hack eliminated something in my situation that resulted in the cessation of the appearance of NEW red skin patches.

Perhaps related, (perhaps not), but I had shingles 2 years ago related to a weakened immune system according to my doc. I thought it was tied to chronic stress after Dad died and dealing with my mother's onset of dementia (my cortisol was off the chart). But in retrospect, the shingles could have been an already faltering immune system from diet, that was merely exacerbated by 4 years of LC'ing and chronic stress. The stress has improved greatly this year. Now I just need to tackle dietary causes for weakening the immune system.

Thanks so much for being a "buttinski". I really appreciate you insightful comments.

BTW, I'm not <20g net carbs. Before all this PH, I ran about 30-40g NC a day on average. Fat averaged 60-70%.

Last edited by buttoni; 06-27-2013 at 08:26 AM..
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Old 06-27-2013, 11:07 AM   #1662
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Good news Jeanyyy!

I weighed this morning...201. Not bad considering I was 208 over the weekend (gasp!). I was not doing low carb; I was failing at McDougall (high starch low fat) with trips to yogurtland and eating sushi and pho and the like. It was a bit of a vacation, since my daughter was out of school for a couple of weeks. We had a good time! So, after debloating, I find I did gain some real fat and it is time to get this off!!!

So, it will be interesting to see from here what happens...I need to make my stats honest soon
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Old 06-27-2013, 11:23 AM   #1663
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May I ask how people are transitioning off the Potato Hack? I was on P4 of Round 3 of HCG when I started mine, if that matters... I'm thinking I will do today and tomorrow (Friday) on PH, then go back to P4. I leave for the Portland Blues Festival on Thursday and want to be back to "normal" by then - especially since I'll be facing fair food and line ups for the porta potties, probably

Just wondering if I should ease into P4, but ease in on what, precisely? Calories? Fat? Protein? It would be great not to rebound.......
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Old 06-27-2013, 12:52 PM   #1664
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May I ask how people are transitioning off the Potato Hack? I was on P4 of Round 3 of HCG when I started mine, if that matters... I'm thinking I will do today and tomorrow (Friday) on PH, then go back to P4...

Just wondering if I should ease into P4, but ease in on what, precisely? Calories? Fat? Protein? It would be great not to rebound.......
Be cautious in reintroducing fat for the first few days. I don't understand HCG but I know that both Yennie and I had to be careful with the fat. Would emphasising protein with moderate carbs and a gradual ramping of the fat work for you?
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Old 06-27-2013, 12:53 PM   #1665
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I also am interested in how people eat off the ph. I was 5:2 and lc when I started. In 4 days I've lost 3 lbs. Great considering I usually happy when I don't gain. When I turned 35 I was at my all time low, a comfortable 4 that could wear some 2's. I didn't change anything but the weight kept creeping up. I do the elliptical 3x wk and a weighted work out 3x and stayed lc yet the weight kept going up. I'm now 43 and a 10. This is the first time I have seen my weight go down in years. I know I can't stay on it forever and I am really missing wine. I think I can do it during the week and maybe lc on weekends with low fat. I have seen on MDA that some keep eating potatoes for two of three meals so I may try that. I have been very happy with my energy when I work out.

Buttoni, it sounds like your body has adapted and I think going to another plan will shake things up again. I hope you report back as to how things are going and what you are doing because I suspect my body will adapt and I will have to change things myself.
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Old 06-27-2013, 01:02 PM   #1666
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Thanks, Slow! Yes, that would work... I find I'm craving steak more than anything...
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Old 06-27-2013, 09:52 PM   #1667
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Holy Cow this is a long thread, and I won't pretend to have read it all....but I've read some.

On another WoE, potatoes were bandied about as a possible addition, but it was stressed that you had to eat them when they were first cooked, and never reheated after they'd cooled, or you would lose the benefit of the resistant starch...it would be NON resistant. Has anyone seen this as a problem?

I'm still pretty new to UdDd on the whole, so I don't want to go totally potatoey, but I'm intrigued enough to try it just for a DD or two a week. Is that working for some of you?

If I decided to do some potato only DDs, I'll probably do some small Yukon Golds prepared as Syracuse Salt Boiled...they turn out really creamy inside, and the salt doesn't really penetrate, just improves the flavor. (skipping the butter of course!)
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Old 06-28-2013, 04:43 AM   #1668
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Adi is very partial to Yukon Gold, iirc. She also has regular potato DD and as she's in maintenance, yes, they work for her. My DH also has potato DD and they're fine for him.

Some people eat the potatoes both hot and cold. tbh, if potato is being eaten on alternate days, I doubt that the amount of resistant starch is substantial enough to make a significant difference. For different reasons, I supplement my resistant starch using BRM unmodified potato starch.
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Old 06-28-2013, 05:26 AM   #1669
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I do potato DD's with cold boiled potatoes BUT I usually have a regular breakfast and start the potatoes at lunch and beyond. Cold boiled Yukon Golds with a little salt. Plain and easy. And I am in maintenance so I am not trying to lose just stay the same and it certainly helps.
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Old 06-28-2013, 07:58 AM   #1670
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I haven't been able to tell much for certain (re: various preparation methods or hot vs. cold) except that both my daughter and I agree that if I make fat free mashed potatoes they just aren't filling. Really, even if you eat a hot potato, it cools quickly as you are eating it. I think this is why it is hard for me to tell the difference anyway regarding satiety.

I use peeled and unpeeled. I go between russets and yukon gold. I like them microwaved whole or peeled sliced, baked until cooked then add pizza sauce on top and put back in the oven to finish.
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Old 06-28-2013, 09:34 AM   #1671
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Down another lb today making it 2.7 lbs in 6 days. That may not seem like much compared to some, but I had a few days at the beginning where I *gained* weight, probably because I was coming from a fairly low carb position... This weight today, 171.4, is a new low!!!
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Old 06-28-2013, 09:38 AM   #1672
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I haven't been able to tell much for certain (re: various preparation methods or hot vs. cold) except that both my daughter and I agree that if I make fat free mashed potatoes they just aren't filling. Really, even if you eat a hot potato, it cools quickly as you are eating it. I think this is why it is hard for me to tell the difference anyway regarding satiety.

I use peeled and unpeeled. I go between russets and yukon gold. I like them microwaved whole or peeled sliced, baked until cooked then add pizza sauce on top and put back in the oven to finish.
I follow the purest regime and that is boiled and then stored in the frig and eaten as needed. Hence the cold boiled potatoes listed on my DD menu. I found that adding condiments just defeated the purpose since if it tastes really good, you want more. I use plain salt or lemon pepper on the cold gold potatoes. Just my way.
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Old 06-28-2013, 01:13 PM   #1673
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Down another lb today making it 2.7 lbs in 6 days. That may not seem like much compared to some, but I had a few days at the beginning where I *gained* weight, probably because I was coming from a fairly low carb position... This weight today, 171.4, is a new low!!!
Great!!!
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Old 06-29-2013, 12:59 PM   #1674
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My Potato Hack Experiment

Day 0 174.1
Day 1 173.6 -0.5 -0.5
Day 2 173.9 +0.3 -0.2
Day 3 174.8 +0.9 +0.7
Day 4 173.7 -1.1 -1.4
Day 5 172.4 -1.3 -2.7
Day 6 171.4 -1.0 -3.7
Day 7 170.9 -0.5 -4.2 Admitedly, this weight is a "got up late" one

So, -4.2 lbs in 7 days of Potato Hacking; more than any non-first-week HCG week *ever*. Very interesting. Now to see what happens when I try to (slowly-ish) ease back to normal.

The plan today is to go out for steak and asparagus at the casino (one of the best steaks around and the asparagus are to die for). We'll go on the early side, 5:30ish... so I might not eat before then, other than a couple of coffees.
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Old 06-30-2013, 10:12 AM   #1675
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SlowSure, I think I've figured it out now. Your input is what got me to thinking. I just posted this over on the Lupin Flour thread, but I'm going to copy/paste that post here. I thank you for getting me to think more deeply about this. I do think I could have leaky gut going on as well, but I think the red skin issues were ALLERGY in nature:

Allergic Reaction?
Long story. Let me state categorically I have absolutely NO PEANUT ALLERGY. Been eating them all my life. But I think I may possibly have a sensitivity to lupin flour, known to cause allergic reactions in people with peanut allergies. It may be sheer coincidence, but the evidence I have is pretty convincing.

I baked my first recipe with lupin flour Feb 20th (I can document that because of my website). No reaction, so I thought I was OK with it. Sometime around the beginning of March, I developed a large brown to red skin patch the size of a quarter on my lower front torso. Then a week later a larger one on my right hip. Then several other smaller ones in just a couple days, and a few on my lower back even. In a few more days I had several more on my upper thighs.

I decided I needed to let a dermatologist to evaluate and I saw him on March 19th, 3-4 weeks from the first lupin flour ingestion. He asked if I was using any new household or personal products or eating any new foods. I mentioned the lupin flour was a recent baking addition, but despite that information, he diagnosed the red patches, with a 90% certainty, as something called Purpura "lichen aureus", a very rare skin disorder with unknown etiology and no cure. In most patients, it responds well to and lightens with the application of steroid cream topically. Over the next couple months, many, many more red patches showed up, and would slowly and only stubbornly lighten up with the cream treatment, always with 4-5 new patches appearing just when the old ones would go away. Mind you, I made 3-4 new lupin flour recipes during this 2 months as well, which in retrospect, I suspect caused the "new appearances". Didn't make any connection with the lupin flour, as the skin disorder typically causes repeat, random occurrences, according to literature.

But I haven't baked any lupin recipes since the end of May May 17th to be exact). The patches began to not only finally become lighter and lighter (something they had been pretty resistant to) but NO NEW ONES SHOWED UP!!! As of today, I only have 1 red patch left, and no new ones in a 2-week period (pretty phenomenal really).

Coincidentally and concurrently, I started a Potato Hack for 10 days on June 17th. SlowSure on the Potato Hack thread thought perhaps that severe an elimination diet might have eliminated some food intolerance I might have been unaware of before. But then I started checking the dates of my lupin baking and realized I had just ceased baking with it May 17th and that was right about the time I did my Potato Hack experiment.

I now think it was the lupin flour all along and that my doc has misdiagnosed this totally. If I continue to see no further eruptions of red patches, I'm going to assume this was most certainly an allergic/immune system reaction to the lupin flour. Needless to say, I will NOT be doing further experimenting with lupin flour. I'm going to have to let you other folks work with this one from here on.

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Old 06-30-2013, 11:39 AM   #1676
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My Potato Hack Experiment

Day 0 174.1
Day 1 173.6 -0.5 -0.5
Day 2 173.9 +0.3 -0.2
Day 3 174.8 +0.9 +0.7
Day 4 173.7 -1.1 -1.4
Day 5 172.4 -1.3 -2.7
Day 6 171.4 -1.0 -3.7
Day 7 170.9 -0.5 -4.2 Admitedly, this weight is a "got up late" one

So, -4.2 lbs in 7 days of Potato Hacking; more than any non-first-week HCG week *ever*. Very interesting. Now to see what happens when I try to (slowly-ish) ease back to normal.

The plan today is to go out for steak and asparagus at the casino (one of the best steaks around and the asparagus are to die for). We'll go on the early side, 5:30ish... so I might not eat before then, other than a couple of coffees.
That is great Jeanyyy! It is interesting to hear your comparison to HCG.

Buttoni- Glad you were able to figure out what was causing the skin reaction!
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Old 06-30-2013, 12:23 PM   #1677
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Down 1.0 lbs today, 169.9... I'm shocked.

We went to the casino restaurant last night for an early dinner and found out on arrival that the prime rib was on special for $9.98. We both ordered it (8 oz) and instead of "silky" mashed, they gave us a small salad with dried cranberries and slivered almonds (very, very good). It came with about 2 baby carrots and 4-5 green beans. We also ordered a side of their excellent grilled asparagus to share. A glass of merlot for me and an ale for him. Thoroughly enjoyed it all.

And then we decided to split one more serving.... not including the side of asparagus. So, 12 oz prime rib for me and 1 1/2 times everything else other than the lovely asparagus. We ate every bite! And honestly, while it was all good, I think that salad with the oh-so-light vinaigrette dressing was the best part!

When I got home, I had another coffee with cream (#4 for the day), and later in the evening, 2 Grissini breadsticks (at different times) and a strawberry sorbet made with 1 cup of frozen local strawberries, 1 Tbsp heavy cream, and water.

I calculated about 1500 calories for the day, 94 grams of protein - that's just guessing at the fat that was used for the veggies and salad dressing, of course. I figured I'd gain for sure! Colour me amazed this morning! I think I'm in love with the Potato Hack!
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Old 06-30-2013, 12:24 PM   #1678
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Buttoni, how fantastic that you were able to figure it out!! I LOVE this Forum... !!!!
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Old 06-30-2013, 02:01 PM   #1679
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeanyyy View Post
Down 1.0 lbs today, 169.9... I'm shocked.

.... I figured I'd gain for sure! Colour me amazed this morning! I think I'm in love with the Potato Hack!
I'm delighted for you and that the Potato Hack (PH) suits you so well.

I should clarify that it's not that we're concerned about the fat re-introduction as far as weight gain, it's more that Yennie had a very rough ride when she ate fat again after being fat-free during her PH. I was very cautious because I'd done the PH for 28 days and there was a good chance that I'd overload my gut flora with unfamiliar substances if I hadn't gradually brought the fat back into my diet.

KUTGW
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Old 06-30-2013, 02:05 PM   #1680
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Originally Posted by buttoni View Post
SlowSure, I think I've figured it out now.
Thank goodness for your record keeping. I'm so pleased that you've sleuthed your way to the most plausible explanation.

Fingers crossed that it proves to be the lupin flour and that you have such a straightforward remedy in eliminating it.
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