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Old 12-08-2012, 06:29 AM   #691
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Kettleboy and many of the MDA folks say that it is both water & fat. A combo. Pat, you should read the "60 day Potato Diet". He ate nothing but taters for 60 days and did not gain weight back.
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Old 12-08-2012, 06:34 AM   #692
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Wow Pooti! I do believe you may be the winner!


Here is the Benefits thread! Longevity genes

Hmmm, don't know what happened? Wrong link....

Benefits of Alternate Day Fasting/CRON

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Old 12-08-2012, 06:38 AM   #693
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Pooti,

All of that could NOT be water weight. You lost some bonafide fat.
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Old 12-08-2012, 07:00 AM   #694
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Originally Posted by Su11 View Post
My experiment has been the potatos only, and I have't been JUDDing with it, just eating what I was hungry for. I've done both sweet and regular potatos, but I keep it mixed with yukon, russet and so forth.

I'm down at least 8 lbs for the week. I didn't lose yesterday, which is first,but I am still quite happy

I've had great energy (I dont exercise) and I'm calm in the face of some very serious personal issues, I don't even feel a lot of pull to eat for comfort...

I'm not sure how long I'll do this portion. I do think the perfect health diet is a good option for jazzing up the up and down days.

What got me started was really thinking about how many people had done so well for centuries using potatos as a main source of food. It may not be perfect, but I have felt a sense of gratitude that I can eat this way and keep in mind all those who have had done so before me.
Congrats Su11! so sorry to hear about that you are going through a rough time
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Old 12-08-2012, 07:07 AM   #695
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Originally Posted by Su11 View Post
My experiment has been the potatos only, and I have't been JUDDing with it, just eating what I was hungry for. I've done both sweet and regular potatos, but I keep it mixed with yukon, russet and so forth.

I'm down at least 8 lbs for the week. I didn't lose yesterday, which is first,but I am still quite happy

I've had great energy (I dont exercise) and I'm calm in the face of some very serious personal issues, I don't even feel a lot of pull to eat for comfort...

I'm not sure how long I'll do this portion. I do think the perfect health diet is a good option for jazzing up the up and down days.

What got me started was really thinking about how many people had done so well for centuries using potatos as a main source of food. It may not be perfect, but I have felt a sense of gratitude that I can eat this way and keep in mind all those who have had done so before me.
Congrats Su11! so sorry to hear about that you are going through a rough time
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Old 12-08-2012, 07:07 AM   #696
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If it were water loss, why on earth would those of us going from LC to potatoes lose weight??
And if it's water loss, why would we not gain it back as soon as we return to our regular diet?
I have no idea what's going on.
Great questions, Pat. Gotta say that I have always been skeptical about what "they" tell us.
Sunday, I'll miss peanut butter on the PHD. That's it. I am absolutely loving the rest of it.
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Old 12-08-2012, 07:28 AM   #697
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Sunday, I saw the nice food diagram from the perfect health diet and was upset the legumes were kept out. "the starch solution diet: actually allows beans and people still lose weight.... boy so many theories out there.....the author argues that beans were eaten thousands of years ago so they are considered safe foods... here is some inform... I haven't read PHD. what's the reasoning why we can't eat beans?


Great questions too Pat!! We need to hire a research team to do a study on all these crazy diets and come up with a conclusion for us! If I told a dietician that someone lost 8 lbs eating potatoes they would think I am nuts!

Starches Consumed Throughout History: Starch solution diet

Barley – Middle East for 11,000 years
Corn (maize) – North, Central, and South America for 7,000 years
Legumes – Americas, Asia, and Europe for 6,000 years
Millet – Africa for 6,000 years
Oats – Middle East for 11,000 years
Potatoes – South America (Andes) for 13,000 years
Sorghum – East Africa for 6,000 years
Sweet Potatoes – South America and Caribbean for 5,000 years
Rice – Asia for more than 10,000 years
Rye – Asia for 5000 years
Wheat – Near East for 10,000 years



Pro-bean
Tim Ferriss (4-Hour Body)
Dan Buettner (Blue Zone)
Andrew Weil (drweil.com)


ANTI- bean
Pythagoras (Ionian philosopher)
Loren Cordain (The Paleo Diet)
Robb Wolf (The Paleo Solution)


More random inform from To bean or not to bean:

The Evidence Against Beans

Contrary to conventional dietary wisdom, paleo diet advocates say you should NOT eat beans. Why not?

1. Beans are hard to digest (the musical fruit).
Beans that are not properly soaked, drained, boiled, drained-again, and slow-cooked can result in severe digestive stress. Even under the best of circumstances, beans can you make fart more.

2. Beans can aggravate auto-immune diseases.
All legumes (beans, but also tofu, soy-milk, peas, lentils, and peanuts) contain lectins. Some of these lectins are implicated in IBS, Crohn’s disease, arthritis, multiple sclerosis, peptic ulcers, allergies, and Type 2 diabetes.

3. Beans are high in starch and carbohydrates.
Beans are a starchy food, high in carbohydrates. Eating significant amounts of beans may interfere with weight loss.

4. Beans contain estrogen mimics, which can be harmful to health.
Beans, especially soybeans but also fava beans and other beans, contain phytoestrogens — weak estrogen mimics that can interfere with hormone function. Phytoestrogens evolved in plants as a defense mechanism, a way to disrupt the reproductive success of predators. Red clover (a legume) has been shown to disrupt reproduction in animals.
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Old 12-08-2012, 07:33 AM   #698
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Originally Posted by Joyjoy View Post
If it were water loss, why on earth would those of us going from LC to potatoes lose weight??
And if it's water loss, why would we not gain it back as soon as we return to our regular diet?
I have no idea what's going on.
Great questions, Pat. Gotta say that I have always been skeptical about what "they" tell us.
Sunday, I'll miss peanut butter on the PHD. That's it. I am absolutely loving the rest of it.
JoyJoy, I'm not saying everyone's loss here is water loss! I'm saying MY loss is mostly water loss for these reasons...I have the context to back it up:

Surgery Sept 25 (pre-surgery wt loss low was 218lbs about 2 weeks or so prior to going off lc for surgery prep) Day of surgery weight was 226lbs.

November 21 - Oncology 1 year Visit - Weight was 236lbs.

November 26 - Start Atkins Induction NK 2week Challenge - Weight was 240.8 lbs)

December 6 - Start Potato Hack - Weight was 247.8lbs

Up 29.8lbs in less than 2 1/2 months. Much of that (not all) but some of it HAS to be water gain. If not, I'm in serious metabolic doodoo. You know? Also, this week at my Lymphedema intake session, the therapist estimates I have at least 8lbs of fluid in my arm, breasts and back region.

So that's why I think in 2 days on the Potato Hack (2 days) - I probably only have .5lbs of fat lost or maybe 1lb of fat loss if I'm being generous. I can also attest, to peeing like a racehorse the last two days and my fingers feeling very skinny. Thank God something feels skinny right?

But whatever it is, the loss is appreciated cuz I actually feel quite a bit better today without that extra 8.4lbs of something! I'm also greatful my fasting blood sugar isn't off the charts.


Sunday - MUAH! Thanks!
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:02 AM   #699
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Originally Posted by cuttie99 View Post
Sunday, I saw the nice food diagram from the perfect health diet and was upset the legumes were kept out. "the starch solution diet: actually allows beans and people still lose weight.... boy so many theories out there.....the author argues that beans were eaten thousands of years ago so they are considered safe foods... here is some inform... I haven't read PHD. what's the reasoning why we can't eat beans?


2. Beans can aggravate auto-immune diseases.
All legumes (beans, but also tofu, soy-milk, peas, lentils, and peanuts) contain lectins. Some of these lectins are implicated in IBS, Crohn’s disease, arthritis, multiple sclerosis, peptic ulcers, allergies, and Type 2 diabetes.


4. Beans contain estrogen mimics, which can be harmful to health.
Beans, especially soybeans but also fava beans and other beans, contain phytoestrogens — weak estrogen mimics that can interfere with hormone function. Phytoestrogens evolved in plants as a defense mechanism, a way to disrupt the reproductive success of predators. Red clover (a legume) has been shown to disrupt reproduction in animals
.

Cuttie, I haven't had an opportunity to read his book yet, but I will over the break. I believe though, from what I have read and listened to on podcast that it may have to do with #2. Inflammation (Crohn's & IBS) and #4 Soy and phytoestrogens. His wife had major thyroid issues that were connected to the overuse of soy. She is Asian and of course, soy is very prevalent in their culture.

Also, I have heard many reviews from the Crohns & IBS folks, that beans may have been harmful to their controlling the issues that they had, but once they implemented the PH diet, these aggravations left.
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:05 AM   #700
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so funny--I'm finding I am eating potatoes even on my off days (friday and saturday) and having a regular paleo dinner (except for last night--big party and lots of cake and the scale is unfriendly this morning

free the animal has a fun potato recipe I am trying today: potato fans-- heads up--he always uses a tsp of fat/potato

Pooti--I think you are correct about tater impact on hormones and I suspect THAT is why after a few days of doing this, we feel well being, lack of hunger, a sense of being "normal" around food. I think something is getting regulated. What is wonderful for me is the feeling that this is true even on non-potato days--which is why you are correct that there is something more long-term than just insulin going on here.

Something is being "toggled" in the homeostatic system and after an initial dysregulation, it is adapted at a different homeostatic level. At some intuitive level, I know you must be right about leptin and gherelin, because I swear I never felt this calm and satisfied on regular lowfat or regular lowcarb.

By the way=--whoever said that thing about feet shrinking, WTH? I tried six pairs of shoes last night before I could find a pair that I wasn't going to walk out of!! This might get expensive!!!!!
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:05 AM   #701
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I am anxious to know more about tapioca, rice and taro. As well, as fermented veggies. He has a bit to say bout his research in these foods as well.
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:08 AM   #702
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Sunday--I also saw that he uses buckwheat--which scares me! Do you know much about buckwheat?
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:11 AM   #703
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Sunday,


I beleive its you unless I am wrong that indroduced us to the PHD. Thank you. Very interesting and I just viewed the below links (not sure if they are the same you shared) and I learned alot. Also learned why legumes are bad.

I am bummed about few things. no legumes, sugar and milk! I can buy gluten free foods to compensate for the wheat etc... I think it's a great diet. As long as we can have a little sugar... As far as the milk I really enjoy 2% milk, I guess I can switch to whole.. but the issue is its still pasturize and the extra water milk has. Not sure if I am willing to try raw. My conclusion is to try to apply most of the principles of the diet and do the best I can. It's much more reasonable then other diets I have heard of. Thanks again for sharing!




Perfect health diet part 1

Perfect health diet part 2

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Old 12-08-2012, 08:15 AM   #704
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Sunday--I also saw that he uses buckwheat--which scares me! Do you know much about buckwheat?
It scares me as well. Don't think I would include wheat, but he does promote coconut flour and olive oil. The thing that drew me to his plan, was the fact that he is helping so many others with digestive issues and the only problem that I have ever had with digestion is JUDDD. Sometimes the fasting days can wreak havoc on my tummy.
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:25 AM   #705
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Sunday--I also saw that he uses buckwheat--which scares me! Do you know much about buckwheat?
Well, not Sunday here, but I know buckwheat isn't 'wheat' and isn't even a grass/grain. It just has the name.
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:26 AM   #706
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Plus tater DDs would be a cinch for me with sweet taters. I really don't know many who are doing his plan except for the folks over at MDA and on his FB site. It seems to be more of an Optimal Nutrition plan than what I have been doing.

Last edited by sunday; 12-08-2012 at 08:30 AM..
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:31 AM   #707
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Well, not Sunday here, but I know buckwheat isn't 'wheat' and isn't even a grass/grain. It just has the name.
Thanks Pat! Whodathunk buckwheat isn't wheat?

Looked it up on Wholefoods...

Energizing and nutritious, buckwheat is available throughout the year and can be served as an alternative to rice or made into porridge.

While many people think that buckwheat is a cereal grain, it is actually a fruit seed that is related to rhubarb and sorrel making it a suitable substitute for grains for people who are sensitive to wheat or other grains that contain protein glutens. Buckwheat flowers are very fragrant and are attractive to bees that use them to produce a special, strongly flavored, dark honey.
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:33 AM   #708
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Very interesting benefits from buckwheat, that I never knew or explored...

Buckwheat ~ A Grain That's Good for Your Cardiovascular System

Diets that contain buckwheat have been linked to lowered risk of developing high cholesterol and high blood pressure. The Yi people of China consume a diet high in buckwheat (100 grams per day, about 3.5 ounces). When researchers tested blood lipids of 805 Yi Chinese, they found that buckwheat intake was associated with lower total serum cholesterol, lower low-density lipoprotein cholesterol (LDL, the form linked to cardiovascular disease), and a high ratio of HDL (health-promoting cholesterol) to total cholesterol.

Buckwheat's beneficial effects are due in part to its rich supply of flavonoids, particularly rutin. Flavonoids are phytonutrients that protect against disease by extending the action of vitamin C and acting as antioxidants. Buckwheat's lipid-lowering activity is largely due to rutin and other flavonoid compounds. These compounds help maintain blood flow, keep platelets from clotting excessively (platelets are compounds in blood that, when triggered, clump together, thus preventing excessive blood loss, and protect LDL from free radical oxidation into potentially harmful cholesterol oxides. All these actions help to protect against heart disease.

Buckwheat also contains almost 86 milligrams of magnesium in a one-cup serving. Magnesium relaxes blood vessels, improving blood flow and nutrient delivery while lowering blood pressure—the perfect combination for a healthy cardiovascular system.

Better Blood Sugar Control and A Lowered Risk of Diabetes

The nutrients in buckwheat may contribute to blood sugar control. In a test that compared the effect on blood sugar of whole buckwheat groats to bread made from refined wheat flour, buckwheat groats significantly lowered blood glucose and insulin responses. Whole buckwheats also scored highest on their ability to satisfy hunger.
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:34 AM   #709
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Su11, sympathies for the personal stress.

Agree with you. Humans and potatoes go back a loooong way.
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I am simply amazed! 8 lbs is incredible! I think the fact that you are calm is something that all need to take notice, the seeming calmness in your stressful situation is truly remarkable. I am sorry that you are having to deal with stress.
Thank you both for your kind words. It has been a hard few months, but I am so joyful that I am EASILY able to avoid stress eating that I am nearly dancing every morning at weigh in.

I agree... 8 lbs is amazing. I'm almost stunned, because as a 50 something with hypothyroid, I usually lose very very slowly.

I'm grateful to all for discussing this here. It is an easy and comfortable way to improve my health.
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:37 AM   #710
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That is a great youtube Cuttie. I am listening right now!
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Old 12-08-2012, 09:12 AM   #711
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Sunday- great article on buckwheat!!
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Old 12-08-2012, 09:27 AM   #712
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Hey Poot, I wasn't commenting on your loss, just on Pat's questions. I'm sure water loss is very possible, I just don't know how much more desiccated I could have been when I started on potatoes.
Hey Cuttie, could you summarize the anti-pasteurized dairy argument from PHD? Or point me toward a link? I haven't read that part yet.
And Ouiz, I totally agee with the homeostatic shift. Even back on regular foods today, I don't recognize myself, my hunger patterns are so different. There is a definite calm. I'm going to do three days of taters again next week.
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Old 12-08-2012, 10:20 AM   #713
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Hey Poot, I wasn't commenting on your loss, just on Pat's questions. I'm sure water loss is very possible..........I just don't know how much more desiccated I could have been when I started on potatoes..........
This was sort of what I was getting at. LOL!!!!! We have people doing JUDDD at a low carb level, so supposedly about all their excess water weight due to stored carb fuel should be all but shed long ago. And yet.. the Potato Hack is producing lots more pounds of immediate weight loss on the scale??? What's being lost? MORE water weight? Like you said, how much more *water weight* would there be to shed out of a low carber?

And yet, we've all been assured, told outright really, that we can't make fat melt away that fast, so here we sit.. thinking in our heart that it can't be all fat loss.

Well, fun.. regardless of what is lost.

And I will say, other than when I was *low carbing*, potatoes have been a fairly regular item in my diet, as have many other starches. I went back to eating like my family, slim family, did back when I was a child. Back when a starch was a portion of every dinner. Back when you had your meat serving, your starch serving, your vegetable serving (one green one, and often a yellow one too) and then.. bread and butter with your meal, often enough with a glass of milk. Everyone was slim. My whole town was slim. Most of the folks in the nation were slim. Look at pictures around the time of WW II... Some grandpas and grandmas had begun to pack on some pounds and begun to look a little like Mr. and Mrs. Santa Claus, but most younger folks, certainly, were slender. On starches!!
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Old 12-08-2012, 10:56 AM   #714
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And I will say, other than when I was *low carbing*, potatoes have been a fairly regular item in my diet, as have many other starches. I went back to eating like my family, slim family, did back when I was a child. Back when a starch was a portion of every dinner. Back when you had your meat serving, your starch serving, your vegetable serving (one green one, and often a yellow one too) and then.. bread and butter with your meal, often enough with a glass of milk. Everyone was slim. My whole town was slim. Most of the folks in the nation were slim. Look at pictures around the time of WW II... Some grandpas and grandmas had begun to pack on some pounds and begun to look a little like Mr. and Mrs. Santa Claus, but most younger folks, certainly, were slender. On starches!!
Yes--on starches, but without the nasty 06 seed oils, and sugar in everything, and eating out constantly at restaurants and snacking between meals, and without all the weird a$$ hormone disrupters in the water and without all the "factory food."
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Old 12-08-2012, 10:58 AM   #715
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... Nancy I like the idea of having a potato meal in it's own window, Shangri-la style. I'd been wondering about trying that for DDs instead of doing a Fast-5 equivalent. Have to compare that with my usual bullet-proof cocoa fix.

Definitely wasn't willing to sabotage my sirtuin pool this week but I think a straight three-day potato fast would be a great way to clean up after seasonal indulgences.
For breakfast yesterday I had my usual cuppa joe with 1 teaspoon hwc. For lunch I had my usual bone broth + gluc but I dumped in about four oz of chopped, pre-boiled spuds. Dinner was DD usual - green veggies and a snitch of DH's rice-a-roni. A few hours after dinner, I got hungry (very unusual for me) so I nuked a small spud and ate it with salt & pepper.

So, my usual almost Fast-5 breakfast and lunch with addition, and a very unusual bedtime snack. In effect, DD maintenance calories plus potatoes. And this morning I hit a new low.

Some of what I am evicting is definitely water - post-operation bloating. And I am glad to see it go.

But, today is no-potato UD. I think 'zoid is right that potatoes only meals are making internal changes. I had a cookie and a chocolate after lunch. And found myself thinking, "this is too sweet." THAT has never happened before.
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GOAL 10/3/12
Still at goal 2/6/13
STILL below goal 2/15/14

I did not "lose" weight. I evicted it. It is gone and it ain't coming back!

JUDDD cares about calories. JUDDD does not care what you eat. Your body probably does.

Last edited by gotsomeold; 12-08-2012 at 10:59 AM..
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Old 12-08-2012, 11:06 AM   #716
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Nancy--I have so noticed that sweets are losing their "physical" appeal for me while eating potatoes. There is still some kind of mental appeal--last night at the party I had part of a cupcake. Yuck! tasted gross! And I know I would have loved it a month ago! So weird--but a salty, crispy potato? YUM!
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Old 12-08-2012, 11:33 AM   #717
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ouizoid View Post
Yes--on starches, but without the nasty 06 seed oils, and sugar in everything, and eating out constantly at restaurants and snacking between meals, and without all the weird a$$ hormone disrupters in the water and without all the "factory food."
That's true also. But they had invented transfats by then. Grandma said you couldn't bake a really good, really flaky pie crust without using lard, but many women were already turning to... Crisco! Solid vegetable shortening! Pure transfats.

We did eat plenty of sugar. It was table sugar. It was in the cookies mamas baked and the pies and the cakes. And in the soda pop. We kids mixed packets of Kool-ade with the one cup of sugar and two quarts of water in a big pitcher in the summer time. Woo Hoo! But mostly we didn't eat between meals. The dessert was eaten after the supper meal was over. Sometimes there wasn't any really good dessert at all.. mama served a bowl of fruit.

I don't think water was bad back then, other than any that had bacteria/bad buggies in it. It was only chlorinated. Not treated with chloramine. And no floride added.

I do remember daddy was very particular about the beef we got.. half of one raised by one of the farmers locally, and well fattened on corn!!! for the best marbling of the meat. The farmer picked out what he thought would be the best for his family, and for us. I still remember those steaks. Daddy liked them to be one inch thick.. no thinner and no thicker. But daddy had been a farm boy and was raised on Iowa beef and produce from his mother's garden. With plenty of potatoes.

I sure did like it back then. This country is very, very different now, and in so many, many more ways than just the food.

But I have done the best and been the most happy once I started trying to eat a whole lot more like I did as a child. Seems to work really well for me, regardless of what all is in my water or meat.
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Old 12-08-2012, 11:40 AM   #718
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Ouiz, what does your eating plan look like now? Are you JUDDDing? Do you do potato only days now each week and how many do you do? What has your weight loss been?

How did you transition from potatoes only to JUDDD?
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Old 12-08-2012, 11:48 AM   #719
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Pootie--I am not juddding at the moment. I am doing mostly potato days S-Th with the odd meal or so off when at business functions, and then regular paleoish eating on F & S with lots of social events and naughty foods.

My weight is down almost 1.5 from the end of my first post-thanksgiving potato fast, which is a miracle because I have had a ridiculous number of dinner meetings and conferences since then

my weight? Let's just say that my profile weight is wildly innacurate lol. I was a good 20 pounds over that September 1st after my trip to Europe. Moving back down is very important to me! If this plan doesn't keep me losing, I will go back to JUDDD but with potatoes.

I will be happy if I maintain over the holidays--the most amazing thing to me is how I am feeling. Free of food obsessions, satisfied and happy.
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Old 12-08-2012, 11:57 AM   #720
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Buckwheat is delicious. Its other name is Kasha and it was a staple in parts of Russia. It cooks much quicker than brown rice and is very nutritious. I love it! However, I don't like the pre-roasted version, it has a very strong taste. Buy unroasted buckwheat and dry-roast your own in the pan before boiling it. You can get buckwheat noodles and buckwheat flour makes great pancakes!!

I was also put off GHD by the condemnation of legumes. I'm a vegetarian and beans are a staple. Joel Fuhrman swears by beans and he's helped a lot of people with serious health issues. I guess it's yet another area where people have to find what works best for them.
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