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Old 10-08-2012, 09:53 AM   #1
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High Fat Experiments on JUDDD

Ok, folks. JUDDD has turned me into a mad scientist.

The adaptability of it to fit my life has been a huge selling point for me, so I enjoy experimenting with things like bulletproof coffee and different kinds of DD menus to achieve satiation.

And I also have started coming up with coping strategies for situations that I can predict--like conventions during which I will not have a great deal of control over my eating choices. There will be no bulletproof coffee or shirataki noodles to tide me over in a hotel, for example.

I have one of those conventions coming up in a few days and I anticipate that I won't be able to get in any really low Down Days. So, that got me thinking about ways to prepare.

I've had such success with fat on a DD that I remembered the Atkins Fat Fast. Now, hear me out. This is the funny part. When I was stalled on Atkins, I wouldn't even consider doing this because I did not think I could survive on 1,000 calories in one day. <<Insert maniacal JUDDD laughter here>>>

Now I'm wondering if there might be some advantage to doing a high fat up day. Not as a regular WOE for me--I think that kind of daily restriction would destroy the joy of JUDDD for me and set me up for a major melt down--but just as a preparatory episode to keep the appetite low and to extend fat-burning a bit.

In short, I believe in JUDDD as written and have no plans to tweak it to death. I just want to see how my body will react to a DD followed by a high fat UD followed by another DD.

Is anyone else experimenting with high fat and do you have any suggestions?

Last edited by stephdray; 10-08-2012 at 10:24 AM..
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Old 10-08-2012, 10:20 AM   #2
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Steph,
I started using huge fat days to reduce cravings after carby holidays. The side effect was rapid, almost inconceivable, weight loss after said holidays.
So now I use it to drop a couple of pounds, say, between being measured for a film gig and showing up for the gig. (Who films the day after Thanksgiving, I ask you?)
I also find it acts as a bit of a holiday from rotations if and when I'm busy or stressed enough that good DDs look impossible. In these cases, I don't gain and I enjoy something different.
I suspect this works for me because
1. I am hugely carb resistant (read addicted) even after six months JUDDDing, and
2. I love, love a huge range of options inside which I can feel happy and satisfied without becoming a hippo.
It's funny. After a couple of high fat days, I miss rotations, so I slide back into them.

I'd love to hear the results of your experiments, as well as your methodology.
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Old 10-08-2012, 10:28 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joyjoy View Post
Steph,
I started using huge fat days to reduce cravings after carby holidays. The side effect was rapid, almost inconceivable, weight loss after said holidays.
So now I use it to drop a couple of pounds, say, between being measured for a film gig and showing up for the gig. (Who films the day after Thanksgiving, I ask you?)
Sadists. That's who.

Quote:
I also find it acts as a bit of a holiday from rotations if and when I'm busy or stressed enough that good DDs look impossible. In these cases, I don't gain and I enjoy something different.
Yes, and I think it's helpful to have an emergency back up plan. I never found it very helpful when, on any diet plan, some enthusiast would tell me that no matter what the situation--even if I were invited as a guest to someone's home--I must simply not eat rather than veer away from the principles of the WOE.

I knew the intentions were good; it's easy to view everything as an excuse to go off plan. However, in practice this always set me up to think "So, if I can't do it right, then I might as well not do it at all."

Clearly, this was not a very good attitude for me to have.

Now I'm coming up with better ones.
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Old 10-08-2012, 10:33 AM   #4
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I tried a few all fat UDs and DDs. The day went fine but, in the evening, I found myself longing for veggies and I caved. (It is so weird - day dreaming of broccoli and lettuce.)

That sounds like a great experiment! Let us know what you eat and how it goes.
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Old 10-08-2012, 10:39 AM   #5
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Interesting idea, Steph. I'll be interested to hear how it goes for you.

I'm doing kind of the opposite. I'm trying to keep my fat up on both DD and UD, but on UD, I don't sweat the ratios at all. If I have a starchy (read beans, squash or even pizza) day, it's fine. I try not to do that very often. I'm afraid if I try the high fat thing on UDs as well as DDs, I'll feel too constricted and lose one of the benefits of JUDDD for me, which is flexibility.

On DDs, the last 3 anyway, I'm trying for high fat, moderate protein, low carb. I've lost 5 pounds now in the last 6 days. I know that won't continue, but I think the fat is really helping me burn fat. I allow myself 500 calories on DDs, and I don't count the 226 calories from my BPC, since I drink it in the morning and typically don't eat until late afternoon or even dinner in the mid evening.

This definitely means a lot less volume on DDs, which for me is more psychologically challenging than it is physically. The fat satiates me so well, and I haven't been struggling through DDs at all. Oh, there are moments of hunger that gets my attention, but if I drink some iced tea and wait, they usually subside.

I think what keeps me going then, is thinking about how I lost 1 or 2 pounds after the last high fat DD, and looking forward to seeing if it happens again tomorrow morning. This experiment, for me, is working for the time being. If I wake up next DD and feel like I have to have more volume, or am craving fruit, then I'm going to listen to my body.

I'll be very interested to hear how others's experiences go. PirateJenny's NK posts is what got me going on this experiment.
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Old 10-08-2012, 10:40 AM   #6
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I keep toying with the idea of doing a high fat DD once in a while, just to try it. Maybe a high fat UD would be good too. I'm just too lazy to do the research. So . . . I'm interested to see how you fare, and also in any menus so I don't have to think at all when it comes time for me to try it for myself.
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Old 10-08-2012, 11:17 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoCarbGal View Post
I'm doing kind of the opposite. I'm trying to keep my fat up on both DD and UD, but on UD, I don't sweat the ratios at all. If I have a starchy (read beans, squash or even pizza) day, it's fine. I try not to do that very often. I'm afraid if I try the high fat thing on UDs as well as DDs, I'll feel too constricted and lose one of the benefits of JUDDD for me, which is flexibility.
Yeah, this is exactly why this is only an experiment. I have zero plans to make both days restrictive unless or until forced to. I'm only doing this to test out something to use as an emergency backup plan if things go awry. Like they're going to this coming weekend :P

Quote:
I think the fat is really helping me burn fat. I allow myself 500 calories on DDs, and I don't count the 226 calories from my BPC, since I drink it in the morning and typically don't eat until late afternoon or even dinner in the mid evening.
I'm still counting everything. I'm scared not to!

Quote:
I think what keeps me going then, is thinking about how I lost 1 or 2 pounds after the last high fat DD, and looking forward to seeing if it happens again tomorrow morning. This experiment, for me, is working for the time being. If I wake up next DD and feel like I have to have more volume, or am craving fruit, then I'm going to listen to my body.
I love that! I don't trust my body yet, but I let it have a say.
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Old 10-08-2012, 11:24 AM   #8
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arose JUDDD maintenance

I hope I did the above right

Rosie started the thread and about page 6 or so mentions having high fat! If i recall right Dawn posted on it and was interested in it too. Me too but I never tried it

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Old 10-08-2012, 11:25 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by stephdray View Post
There will be no bulletproof coffee or shirataki noodles to tide me over in a hotel, for example.
Shirataki noodles in a hotel room might be tough, but if you want to do the bulletproof coffee thing, can't you take a jar of coconut oil with you? And you can probably buy some butter locally or even the hotel might have some. (In fact depending on how far you are going you might even be able to pack it...)
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Old 10-08-2012, 11:27 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leonak View Post
arose JUDDD maintenance

I hope I did the above right

Rosie started the thread and about page 6 or so mentions having high fat! If i recall right Dawn posted on it and was interested in it too. Me too but I never tried it

Leona
Yep, and she even posted a menu with the right percentages. It looked yummy, and I STILL haven't tried it!

This is from that link:

Sure thing. So here's what I ate:

Breakfast - 1tbs coconut oil, coffee, hnh (I got into the habit of having 1 tbs of coconut oil on high fat days during hcg)

snack - 4 tbs peanut butter (straight from the jar in a spoon) (this is 70/16/14 on its own - the perfect high fat day food, and I looooove peanut butter

Lunch - 2 oz albacore tuna (1 can) in oil, with 2 tbs mayo on 1 cup lettuce

snack - 1/4 cup macadamia nuts

Dinner - 3.5 oz chicken breast cooked in 1 tbs coconut oil in salad of 2 cups lettuce and 1 medium peeled cucumber with 4 tbs Newmans Olive oil and vinegar salad dressing

snack - 1/4 cup macadamia nuts

It actually worked out to 1892 cals, 80% fat, 13% protein, 7% carbs.

My menu tomorrow will be more of the same. If I don't have macadamia nuts, I'll substitute almonds or cashews. Just be sure to enter in the quantities into your food tracker to be sure you know the percentages and then don't deviate. If you have to give up something, give up the carb. Not the fat.
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Old 10-08-2012, 11:27 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeirasMom View Post
I keep toying with the idea of doing a high fat DD once in a while, just to try it. Maybe a high fat UD would be good too. I'm just too lazy to do the research. So . . . I'm interested to see how you fare, and also in any menus so I don't have to think at all when it comes time for me to try it for myself.
Hey, with you... if it ain't broke...

My Up Day menu so far today has been:

6 slices of bacon (2 srv)
3 eggs
Bulletproof coffee

It's now 2:30pm and I'm not hungry at all but eventually I'm going to need to get some lunch.

Last edited by stephdray; 10-08-2012 at 11:29 AM..
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Old 10-08-2012, 11:31 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avicenna View Post
Shirataki noodles in a hotel room might be tough, but if you want to do the bulletproof coffee thing, can't you take a jar of coconut oil with you? And you can probably buy some butter locally or even the hotel might have some. (In fact depending on how far you are going you might even be able to pack it...)
I'd need a blender. Shaking it doesn't cut it for me. And bringing all kinds of stuff to a hotel during a business convention tends to add to my stress, so I'm trying to be chill ;P
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Old 10-08-2012, 11:40 AM   #13
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Looking forward to hearing how this goes. I tried Banta a couple times for short periods. It was good for regrouping when whenever what I was doing wasn't working. The original is no longer online. Seems like HWC was the only thing for a few days. There is a page with a different version on line now but only the first 7 days.

Last edited by cici52; 10-08-2012 at 11:42 AM..
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Old 10-08-2012, 06:58 PM   #14
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Funny. One of my many DD experiments was HF....I mean really. I made clouds, CO bark, egg yolk/cream nog, avocado.

All those fats just seemed to melt right through and I was more hungry. That was a big surprise since I always believed fat was so satisfying.

What I discovered is that it is only if it attatched to protein.

Since I no longer need to lose, I have found HF on UD keeps me from continuing to lose...although, I would rather no have to think about it at all on UD.

It'll be interesting to see how this goes for you. I believe that it is really important to have a back up plan.
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Old 10-08-2012, 07:32 PM   #15
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Funny you should write this post...
I am in week 6 and have found I have struggled with the last few DD's. I have found an apple will trigger crazy hunger pangs, so I have swapped it today for a small portion of cashews. My fat total on DD's seems to be around the 4-5 g mark, because I go for low fat, higher volume foods.

And so my experiment today.... when I get these hunger pangs I will have A cashew. I only have about 8 for the day, but really want to see if it gets me through. Last week, both DD's, I ate close to 700 cal. Nibbling nuts before bed. But I slept like a baby compared to other DD's when I wake up 3-4 times, and lose 2-3 hours sleep

Tonight I will have my flaxmeal muffin, which has 5g fat, and a salad with olive oil and some fish, about 10g. I love this way of eating, but as we all know, we need to find what works. It's 2pm here, and I have had miso soup and 4 cashews and I feel not bad at all.
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Old 10-08-2012, 08:39 PM   #16
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High fat is my natural WOE, but didn't realize it until I started JUDDDing and paid close attention to my ******. I have done many UD 80% plus fat, but only occasionaly get the high on DD. Although a fav DD for me is 2 egg/2bacon.

If you don't want to spend the calories on DD, you simply must try this wonderful Chocolate Avocado Mousse! The perfect treat for high fat WOE! 227 cals per serving and 23 gms fat ~ 3 carbs.

I wish I could link her site because she has the best recipes, but she also has ads.

For the pudding:

2 hass avocados
2 Tbl coconut oil
1/2 cup premium cocoa powder
1 tsp stevia sweetener
3 Tbl SF chocolate flavored syrup
4 Tbl heavy cream

Combine all ingredients in a blender or magic bullet and puree until smooth. Taste and adjust sweetness as necessary. If it is too thick, add a splash more heavy cream until you get the consistency you want for the pudding.

For the mousse:

Whip one cup of heavy whipping cream with 1 tsp stevia sweetener until stiff. Using a rubber spatula (if you have one) gently fold 1/3 of the whipped cream into the pudding, then gently fold the pudding mixture into the rest of the whipped cream until it's completely blended and smooth. For those of you who don't know, folding is basically what it sounds like. You want to scoop from underneath and keep slowly flipping or "folding" the mixture together until it's blended. This is to keep it fluffy - if you just whipped it in all willy-nilly, you'd release all the air that you whipped into the cream and end up with a runny mess. So fold. Gently. Now don't you feel all smart and kitchen savvy and stuff??? Great - now go make some killer chocolate mousse!

Makes eight 1/2 cup servings of mousse

Approx nutrition info per serving of mousse:
227cals, 23g fat, 3g net carbs, 3g protein

For the pudding only, entire batch is:
995 cals, 96g fat, 16g net carbs, 16g protein
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Old 10-09-2012, 04:19 AM   #17
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I'm interested to hear your results. I agree that JUDDD is awesome due to it's flexibility.
Try googling 'minimus' it is a website for tiny/ travel sized everything. You may find an item or two that could help while your away.
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Old 10-09-2012, 12:43 PM   #18
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The Theory

So the theory was this: If a fasting state continues in the presence of fat and a high fat up day keeps the body in nutritional ketosis, then a pattern of fat-only Down Day followed by high-fat Up Day followed by fat-only Down Day should yield superlative weight loss results.

I won't know if the theory proves correct on my body until tomorrow morning.

Yesterday's menu was:

B. 3 eggs, 6 slices of bacon, Bulletproof Coffee (1 T butter + 1 T coconut oil instead of my usual slimmed down version)
L. Spring Mix with Blue Cheese Dressing
S. Magic Pop w/ Guacamole
D. Trader Joe's Pork Florentine w/ Tofu Shirataki noodles in a gorgonzola cream sauce with a side of egg and olive salad
S. 1/4 cup Macadamia Nuts

The day started out pleasantly. Eggs and bacon, breakfast of champions. But by lunch time, my body seemed to have caught onto the fact that I was getting way more fat than I'm used to and I actually furled my nose at full fat blue cheese dressing. Which I love! The rest of the day pretty much followed suit and I found almost everything I ate after breakfast to be slightly nauseating.

Maybe I have just become spoiled by JUDDD and rebel against restricting myself in food choices two days in a row, but I found the experiment to be vaguely unpleasant, even though I was never the slightest bit hungry yesterday. It was totally satisfying from a hunger standpoint, so I don't know what my problem was. (Eating shirataki noodles on an up day apparently makes me bitter!)

This morning I woke up and weighed in at 265 which is usually my DD number, not my UD number, so chances are good that I will see a new low tomorrow. Fingers crossed.
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Old 10-09-2012, 07:45 PM   #19
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My little experiment worked yesterday. With 23grams of fat on my DD instead of the usual 4-5, I ....
found I felt fuller after dinner and tired at 9 o'clock. I had the best sleep! And woke up this morning feeling totally rested and ready for a healthy oatmeal breakfast, instead of reaching for the sugar!

I ate just under 700 cal, but burned 200 in exercise. so at 500 net cal I am at 30% weight loss mode. It really was my best DD to date (6 weeks in). Although I ate more than my earlier DD's, sleep is SO important! That being said, my weight loss may be a little slower than I'd like, but if I can get a good night sleep every night, who cares how slow it is! I will be a much happier me
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Old 10-09-2012, 09:36 PM   #20
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I think it's easier--psychologically, anyway--to do a HF day on DDs (but maybe with 200-300 more calories than usual, if one usually does 20-25%). DDs are already restrictive; restricting UDs as well can just be too much.

I considered it about a year ago when I first started JUDDD. I was nervous about adding too much "bulk" (cabbage, shirataki noodles, etc) when I felt my stomach had gotten used to smaller portions on LC. Don't remember my results... but in theory, I thought it would be good for my blood sugar.

Dana Carpender was doing something like this (alternating Fat Fast days & higher calorie/higher protein days) somewhat recently.* IIRC, she liked it, but started writing another cookbook and had to eat a lot more! Oh that poor lady!!!

*Never mind, it was about a year ago. I think I actually suggested it to her on Facebook.
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7/25....276.2
8/01....274.6
8/02....274.2
8/03....273.6
8/04....271.6

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Old 10-10-2012, 10:08 AM   #21
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2 lbs down

I guess that means the experiment was a success but I'm not eager to do it again any time soon.
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Old 10-10-2012, 10:14 AM   #22
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Dana Carpender was doing something like this (alternating Fat Fast days & higher calorie/higher protein days) somewhat recently.* IIRC, she liked it, but started writing another cookbook and had to eat a lot more! Oh that poor lady!!!
Oh yes, my heart goes out to her! But seriously, thank heavens for her and her great recipes!

Quote:
Originally Posted by stephdray View Post
I guess that means the experiment was a success but I'm not eager to do it again any time soon.
The loss is great, Steph. Trying to restrict on consecutive UDs and DDs does sound too hard. I'm happy with my HFDDs lately. I'm restricting anyway on those days, and then on UDs I get to have fun!
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Old 10-10-2012, 10:58 AM   #23
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STEPH! Love the new avatar!!! Great pic!
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Old 10-10-2012, 11:08 AM   #24
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LOVE the new avi!

Definitely see why, even if the operation was a success, the patient could easily lose WOE motivation if she eats that way too frequently.

Hmmm, you have me thinking about once a week? once every other week? After spending a reasonable adjustment time during a stall?
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Old 10-10-2012, 03:23 PM   #25
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WOE: JUDDD
Start Date: Start 2-1-14
I have never counted fat, either grams or %, I do wonder how to do that! What is the best to do?

Leona
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Old 10-10-2012, 04:23 PM   #26
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Sunny Southern California
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WOE: JUDDD and moderate carbs
Start Date: 6/1/2012
I use a food diary...there are lots around. I started with the free ****** on line, then bought and downloaded their program to my laptopl. You enter the food you eat and it figures the nutrition values. I had made a spread sheet last month tracking my carbs, fats, proteins and weight and just recently discovered that ****** has basically the same results on a calendar page...so it's much easier.

Steph, this idea is so fascinating and I will try it soon...I'm about 18 weeks in the program and have been losing so slowly now after a quick start this sounds like it may be the key. I have just recently started adding CO to my morning coffee in hopes that'll help. Thanks for the idea.
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Last edited by Mssarge; 10-10-2012 at 04:26 PM..
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