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Old 10-06-2012, 01:05 PM   #1
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do DDs ever get easier?

I am about 5-6 weeks in... and so far, I am finding DDs pretty dang difficult, even at 600 cals, and I read about ppl totally fasting or going all day on a bullet proof coffee and I am a bit astounded

I have less trepidation about them, so psychologically I guess they are easier, in knowing I live through them.

But like right now it is 4 pm, I have had 400 cals and saving 200 for dinner (scallops and veg), and my stomach is trying to eat itself ... I have had half a cucumber and sugarless gum and next will try a big drink of crystal light or something... but man oh man.

It doesn't help that my daughter is unexpectedly home (injured in a rugby game ) and I have been baking her muffins, making her quesadillas, etc. (I must say, great fortitude in me not partaking... but maybe those smells etc are just ramping up my hunger... and it is Thanksgiving here in Canada this weekend, so while getting produce this morning, saw all the pies etc.) (we are celebrating next weekend when my kids and parents can come).

anyhoo, whinging , but just curious if any of you all who sail through DDs came to that capacity after 6 weeks... or if anyone else out there still finds DDs very very hungry.
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Old 10-06-2012, 01:42 PM   #2
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Toora, I muscled DDs for the first while and then experimented till I found what worked. At first it was masses of cabbage and shirataki. Then it was egg whites and tuna. Now it's fat with a bit of protein.
So yes, it gets easier for most people, but it takes some experimenting. I read everything I could here to help figure it out.
I also had heaps of psychological stuff making my DDs harder - stuff about scarcity, boredom, impatience, etc. That stuff took a while, too.
The thing that saved me was realizing I had/have as much to learn about myself during DDs as during UDs, and I suspect that becoming "free" of eating/weight issues means taking on the whole shebang.
My guess is you'll do fine, and you'll have lots to teach the rest of us as your way gets easier.
All the best with it. Let us know how it goes.
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Old 10-06-2012, 02:05 PM   #3
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Broth can be a huge help. If you cook, I encourage you to run some internet searches on bone broth recipes. A cup of broth kills a lot of hunger for many of us (anyone who has not tried it, should).

Also, add veggies and pre-cooked meat to the broth (along with a little water) and you have a very filling, low sodium, low cal soup. Most DDs this is my dinner (sometimes it is also lunch if I am hungry).

Really do experiment with your eating. These days I find high carbs foods trigger hunger for me (they did not used to ).

Think in terms of teaspoons. A hint, a tender caress of butter or cheese or cream not only adds flavor, you might find it lasts longer (at 20 or 30 calories).

And, if you have not tried the cabbage/low cal cheese recipes, check them out. It is nothing short of amazing how filling and satisfying those meals can be.

Yes, you may have to tune what you are eating. But many of us eventually find we prefer DDs to UDs
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I did not "lose" weight. I evicted it. It is gone and it ain't coming back!

JUDDD cares about calories. JUDDD does not care what you eat. Your body probably does.

Last edited by gotsomeold; 10-06-2012 at 02:19 PM..
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Old 10-06-2012, 02:11 PM   #4
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Nancy, where do you get these bones?
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Old 10-06-2012, 02:21 PM   #5
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Oh! she added. If you like the idea of broth, I sometimes open a couple of glucomannan capsules into it and stir like crazy. For me, broth + gluc = full a long time. (never used pressed gluc pills!)


Also. I have not tried bullet proof coffee yet....but I am looking forward to it.
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Old 10-06-2012, 02:23 PM   #6
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Hi Toora, I haven't any JUDDD specific advice to offer except to say that I can already attest to some of what Joy mentioned. You'll have to experiment. Yesterday was only my first DD so I'm no expert but have learned things about myself through other WOEs that I have tried.

I guess this isn't the case for everyone but I'm one of those people whose hunger is only satiated for any extended period of time by fat. Protein late in the day for me spells disaster. It doesn't send me into the same binging frenzy that carbs do but, I don't lose if I consume much protein late in the evening or into the night.

I shudder at the thought of making it all day on just BP coffee like some of the others have mentioned...but to be honest, I may try it. What have I got to lose? I think it's mostly fear.....in my mind, I know how my body responds to fat. I just need to be confident that I can do it and try it. Worst case scenario: I can't make it all day and I cave and eat something that puts me over my DD cals.

Sorry to hear about your daughters injury! And Happy Thanksgiving! I'm sure there are many more who will chime in with more poignant advice and guidance that what I can offer at this point. Please don't get discouraged though. One thing that helped me realize what made me tick was not only journaling what I was eating but also, about an hour later I would check back in to my journal or just make a note about my energy level, my level of hunger, and sometimes even my mood. Sometimes the journaling only happened when I felt bad, sometimes when I felt exceptionally good. I wasn't perfect at it but at least then I could go back and say "ok, how did that meal work out for me the last time I had it?"

I hope some of this helps.
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Old 10-06-2012, 03:17 PM   #7
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thanks guys

I will try making broth... that sounds yummy. and yes, soups in general can be nice and filling.

I have been trying higher fat... but then that is lower volume... although I still have my cabbage with vinegar, and cukes... and just had 1.5 cups steamed veg. I need to keep experimenting with what will be filling and satisfying. Need to get some egg whites again... they can be good with an egg and some lowfat cheese and shrooms.

when I look over my ****** from today, my carbs are up though... mostly from a large honeycrisp apple (which was delectable)... I tend to remember that grains are carby, but got a little absentminded re the carbs in fruit.

I think you are right too Joy re the psychology of this... deprivation, patience... jeepers I want to be at goal after, say, a week ... AND I am taking stock of NSV including droopy drawers and my waist coming back (BF is about that). Hanging in.

I think the big worry of my daughter hurting her neck combined with her being home now and, frankly, a very very grumpy and pretty rude young lady (she is 20... would have hoped for more grace by now), so I know my stress level is up. She goes to her dad's in about an hour, with my lovely but demanding dog, and I will exhale. Life!

thanks for support and tips. you JUDDD BUDDDs are the best

Last edited by tooraloora; 10-06-2012 at 03:20 PM..
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Old 10-06-2012, 03:17 PM   #8
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Oh, I soooo know what you mean. I hear the BPC thing and think, you're joking right? But then again, I am yet to try it so no opinion.

I am entering week 6 on JUDDD and still find DD's hard, especially at night. My DD's are Tues, Thurs and Sun every week. I find Sunday is my most successful DD of the week because I am home and well rested and can plan. My work days are REALLY hard, I had 2 X 700-800 DD this week which I will be working on this week. I should only be eating 400ish on a DD!

I try to put off eating as long as possible on DD's, as not to wake the beast. Soup is great on work days. I make it myself and freeze in 100 cal portions. I also have a lower cal MIM (muffin in a minute) for about 150 cal that is super-dooper filling and yummy
What I am not doing anymore is eating certain carbs. On an UD, an apple can be a very nice, filling snack. On a DD, for me it seems, its suicide. I just can't be satisfied. I agree with the fat idea and like you, am still finding what works. I am thinking eggs is a great one, high fat, low cal and very good for you. I try to eat as little packaged products as possible, but at night a bowl of sugar free jelly for 10 cal is a good one. Maybe with a little cream......


Anyways, I feel your struggle, I honestly do. I am still learning what works for me. Try new foods on DD's (broth is a good one) to find what keeps your hunger at bay. Look at your food diary if you have one (or make one) and learn what foods trigger hunger pangs. I know a cup of tea or coffee settles me down (but I just gota have milk). Keep up with ity and know you are not alone. I know it gets hard to hear others talking about how they ate 300 cal easy-peesy no probs. We will get there too one day

Last edited by SICCHI; 10-06-2012 at 03:19 PM..
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Old 10-06-2012, 04:56 PM   #9
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I'm not one who found DDs to be easier with higher fat, but I really do believe different bodies react different ways. Here's what I know that makes DDs easier for me:

1. I *always* have an easier day if I don't have food for breakfast and put off breaking my fast until afternoon or evening. If I have anything more than coffee with cream, I will be hungry again in a couple of hours.

2. My days get much easier when I stay well hydrated with water rather than my beloved Diet Pepsi. The more water, the better.

3. I tend to play mind games about putting off meals. I try to delay food until 2pm and give myself total permission to eat a meal at 2 if I really feel like it. When I'm doing good rotations, I rarely feel like eating at 2pm anymore. And I'm much more excited about eating a 400 calorie meal at 7pm than two smaller meals starting earlier in the day.

4. I always have something sweet on UDs, but the less sugar/breads/alcohol I have on UDs, the easier my DDs seem to be.

I'm at a little over eight weeks, and this is all I know right now.
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Old 10-06-2012, 05:23 PM   #10
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[QUOTE=SICCHI;15996744]I also have a lower cal MIM (muffin in a minute) for about 150 cal that is super-dooper filling and yummy


Would you share your recipe for the 150 cal mim? I'd love to know how you do it.
Thanks.
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Old 10-06-2012, 05:23 PM   #11
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And for me - I eat breakfast and lunch and then dinner only if I am really hungry and can do that on 350 calories. I find that the lower I keep the calories on DD the less of a problem I have. When I tried to raise my DD calories for maintenance I started wanting more of everything so I am back to lower calorie DD's.
I have 2 eggs for breakfast every day of the week whether it is an UD or a D.
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Old 10-06-2012, 09:17 PM   #12
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My muffin is...

25g flaxmeal
1 tsp cinnamon
1 1/2 tsp baking powder
1 packet splenda

mix the dry ingredients together in a mug then add

1 egg white
5 g of coconut butter (or normal butter) i melt it first.
i also add about 10 g of frozen blueberries chopped

mix it all together until well combined. Place mug in microwave for a minute on high and hey presto! A muffin! It comes out like a tube so I cut it in 3 slices and top with sugarfree jam and a dash of splenda. Works out to 153 cal (inc jam). It also has 10 grams of fibre so it really does keep you full. You can add more butter if you have the cal to spare, and the berries aren't nessesary. I even have them on UD's just because they are obviously good for the bowels and so much better for you than bread. Eat them straight away, or they become dry. Its my take on the original MIM that is 300 cal. I love it
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Old 10-06-2012, 09:43 PM   #13
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Thank you!
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Old 10-08-2012, 09:22 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tooraloora View Post
I am about 5-6 weeks in... and so far, I am finding DDs pretty dang difficult, even at 600 cals, and I read about ppl totally fasting or going all day on a bullet proof coffee and I am a bit astounded
Oh, honey chil', look what I've done to you. Me and my stupid bulletproof coffee.

I need you to listen to me very carefully. Effortlessly fasting all day on nothing but coffee and a little fat is something that evolves. And not even consistently.

If you read my early weekly updates, you'll see I was the POSTER CHILD for bi***ing and complaining about Down Days on JUDDD. I found them horrible. Traumatic even. After I got through the first one I was totally terrified to do the next one. And it took me a very long time before I could work through a normal day on little food. I never truly believed that DDs were going to get easier, and I worried constantly what that might mean for me and JUDDD because I didn't know how long I could keep it up.

I'm happy to report that for me, DDs are easier now. Sometimes a lot easier. And every now and then (like yesterday) they are still tough.

It's just that I'm tougher.

But it took me more than three months to get tougher, okay?
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Old 10-08-2012, 09:26 AM   #15
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Oh, I soooo know what you mean. I hear the BPC thing and think, you're joking right?
I've done it several times and I still think, 'you're joking, right?' Even though I'm doing it :P

Quote:
I try to put off eating as long as possible on DD's, as not to wake the beast.
I had to experiment with a lot of different things. At first I would try to fast through dinner, but then I couldn't work all day. Then I tried to divide up my calories: protein shake & egg white omelette in the morning, broth and shirataki noodles for lunch, low carb chili for dinner on lettuce for a taco salad... and now I've hit the point that I would rather have Bulletproof Coffee in the morning and wait until dinner for the next meal, or skip it altogether because I know the moment solid food passes my lips I'm going to start getting hungrier.

Quote:
What I am not doing anymore is eating certain carbs. On an UD, an apple can be a very nice, filling snack. On a DD, for me it seems, its suicide.
This is exactly my experience.
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Old 10-08-2012, 12:24 PM   #16
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Toora, just popped in to lend my support and glean a few tips from the masters. At least it is good to know they didn't breeze through the first few weeks either. I have also been really struggling with DDs waiting for the tide to turn. Keep up the good work. I see that you lost 9 pounds your first month so you are clearly doing something right.
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Old 10-08-2012, 12:37 PM   #17
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thanks Steph... good to know that it can take months not weeks... will have a few spoonfuls of patience with my next BPC
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Old 10-08-2012, 01:40 PM   #18
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If you read my early weekly updates, you'll see I was the POSTER CHILD for bi***ing and complaining about Down Days on JUDDD. I found them horrible. Traumatic even. After I got through the first one I was totally terrified to do the next one.
She did, she really did. Reading those first weekly posts was tragic: doubling over in pain, nausea, brain fog, unable to write anything but torture scenes...

It was so terrible a group of us was discussing an intervention: break into her house and force-feed her lettuce and cabbage stir-fry with two cheese wedges.

Keep experimenting with your food dear. It takes time for many of us.

Kristin, one of the good things about living out in the country is the grocery stores feel they have to package left overs like bones - and sell the packages for pennies. Not grass fed sadly. But I made the moooost deeelish broth with two turkey backs (75 cents), two onions, celery, some herbs, and a lot of garlic. The trick is, crock pot the bones for 46 hours, add the veggies for the last two hours only.
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Old 10-08-2012, 01:42 PM   #19
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I really do think you get in a groove with DD and they do get easier over time and as you learn what works best for you. For me, I really found that I do best if I eat 2 pieces of bacon and a hardboiled egg for "brunch" not breakfast and then dinner and sometimes a late night low carb snack. I also have done well with fat, lately. I have been eating a peanut butter, cocoa, coconut oil crack recipe on DD (and UD) that also seems to work for me. I have the occasional bad DD, but it is more the exception than the rule now. Usually it is a hormone-cycle thing, too.
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Old 10-08-2012, 03:51 PM   #20
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I find that the less I eat (volume) on DD, the easier they are. When I eat a ton of low-calorie food (cabbage, for example) I'm hungry again in half an hour. When I eat a slice of lunchmeat and a few slices of pickle for lunch, I'm good until dinnertime.
It really does get easier...
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Old 10-08-2012, 08:07 PM   #21
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She did, she really did. Reading those first weekly posts was tragic: doubling over in pain, nausea, brain fog, unable to write anything but torture scenes...

It was so terrible a group of us was discussing an intervention: break into her house and force-feed her lettuce and cabbage stir-fry with two cheese wedges.
*howl*

She might be exaggerating. But only a little. And I approve either way!

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Old 10-08-2012, 08:39 PM   #22
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I wish I could try this BPC, but I just hate butter! Smell, taste, yuk!
Would it work with cream???
I am eating nuts today (just a few) to see if that gets me through till dinner. Definantly not having my afternoon apple today helped so far. Tick the box. No fruit on down days
Tick the box. Fat in small quantities satisfies hunger
Tick the box. Lots and lots of water

I'm slowly getting there and as I said, I'm only 6 weeks in. Knowing that this may take a few months helps, thanks guys
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Old 10-08-2012, 09:44 PM   #23
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SICCHI, do you like coconut oil? I make BP coffee with a tablespoon of coconut oil and a half cup of hot almond milk. I use a milk frother to whip up the oil & milk before adding it to my cup of coffee, and this helps to keep the oil from separating.
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Old 10-09-2012, 03:15 AM   #24
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I wish I could try this BPC, but I just hate butter! Smell, taste, yuk!
Would it work with cream???
It struck me yesterday that, because to me coffee with hwc is the best breakfast in the world, I have probably been doing something close to the BPC thing for years. Even at the height of my carb addiction, all I ever wanted for breakfast was coffee with hwc.

Maybe all you and I need to do is include a wee bit or MCT or coconut oil? I'm gonna try it.
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Old 10-09-2012, 05:40 AM   #25
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The moment you add protein or carba to bulletproof coffee it becomes something else. That something else might work for you but it violates the theory behind BPC that pure fat will have no impact on a fasted state. So I encourage everybody to experiment but just don't want anybody to be confused about what BPC is or why anyone would do it.
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Old 10-09-2012, 07:35 AM   #26
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I agree Steph. Adding CO to any foods has its own health benefits, and will definitely get your fat calories up if that's what you're looking for. But to get the fasting benefits, (and to be able to NOT count those calories in your DD if you so desire), it has to be fat and only fat.
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Old 10-09-2012, 11:17 AM   #27
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Some years ago I remember something about even artificial sweeteners will stimulate the release of insulin so do not sweeten mine. Anybody have any more recent info about that?
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Old 10-11-2012, 03:49 PM   #28
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I've been on JUDDD for two months. Last week, my DDs just started to become easier. I'm not sure why, but I like it.

I canNOT have little meals, without driving myself crazy, so I have my DD calories all at supper time. I drink a lot of water during the day. I've done it this way since my first week.

I think a lot of this might be because I am finally accepting that this is the way things are: I can eat more tomorrow.
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Old 10-11-2012, 08:19 PM   #29
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As Kissa says, "with JUDDD, tomorrow really is another day!" I love that!
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Old 10-11-2012, 08:33 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by jenericstewart View Post
I think a lot of this might be because I am finally accepting that this is the way things are: I can eat more tomorrow.
That mindset helps enormously. I always say now that my favorite time is the couple of hours before bedtime on a DD, when I know it's pretty much over and I can have any food I want the next day. It's kind of like leaving the office on Friday afternoon . . .
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