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Old 09-30-2012, 02:08 PM   #1
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Supplement caution: nicotinamide inhibits SIRT1 ?

Was just reading the CR way McGLothin & Averill. There is a referrence to nicotinamide, also known as B3 or Niacin, inhibiting SIRT1. Has this already been addressed here? I tried looking at it on line and the studies I saw (in vitro) seemed to bear this out, though I admit to being not quite up to the science of it.

I am not up to my 60 days yet so cannot attach URLs.

It might be worth a look, particularly if you are doing good rotations and not feeling the magic. Take a look at your supplements to see if they contain this. It gets complicated when you consider the necessity of B3 in many bodily functions but we might not want to overdo this nutrient. Maybe this is connected to the suggestion of limiting protein for maximum calorie restriction benefit.

Just thought I would throw it out there.
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Old 09-30-2012, 02:12 PM   #2
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Thanks for the info. I just checked my multivitamin and it contains 10 mg, or 50% of the RDA. I don't feel the magic, but I figure it's probably because of my thyroid. I'm losing well, so hopefully my multi isn't screwing with anything.
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Old 09-30-2012, 11:31 PM   #3
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Good info, Cici. Thanks.

I've been wondering about you folks talking about feeling the magic. What exactly does that mean for each of you? I've been enjoying the weight loss, but also hoping for some reduction in inflamation and allergy symptoms. I've noticed a little less skin redness (I have some acne scars that seem to be fading, and I get facial flushing sometimes - I suspect rosacea, but haven't been diagnosed). Just wondering what this means, and how it manifests in us all differently.
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Old 10-01-2012, 12:11 AM   #4
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Wow, Cici! When I ran an internet search on "nicotinamide sirtuin" I got all kinds of articles on inhibition. I haven't had time to read these yet, but I will...and look over what I eat/take. You may be onto something when you wonder if this is part of what is happening to our non-losers.

Thank you for sharing this.

LowCarbGal, for me JUDDD Magic has two parts.

One part is trust. I have been doing this long enough that I can judge how big the bounce will be after a UD becomes UUAD. And I know that the next DD will remove the bounce. You will see old timers (like me) frequently say "trust JUDDD." I do. I really do.

The other part involves NSVs (and I am so very glad Beverly started that thread!). I know JUDDD Magic is working (meaning I am SIRTed to capacity) because my skin is not inflamed, my arthritic hand does not hurt, the pouches under my eyes are not prominent, and my energy is focused and steady. When any of those come back, I know to review what I have been eating because I have either eaten too many cals on DD or (this one is usually what happens to me) I have eaten too low on a few consecutive UDs.

Me, I felt JUDDD Magic begin on Wednesday (DD) of my fourth week JUDDDing. Suddenly realized my energy was high, my mood was great, and it was 02:00 PM I had not even thought about food all day. The NSVs started building after that point.

Now I want to figure out the nicotinamide/sirtuin equation...I want to have enough Bs, but I also want the Magic!
__________________
- Nancy
GOAL 10/3/12
Still at goal 2/6/13
STILL below goal 2/15/14

I did not "lose" weight. I evicted it. It is gone and it ain't coming back!

JUDDD cares about calories. JUDDD does not care what you eat. Your body probably does.
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Old 10-01-2012, 12:29 AM   #5
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Ya know, I just thought of a third part of the magic (for me).

That is being calm and happy. It is moving through trying to be totally in control the "I have to lose 20 pounds by my birthday"..."I have to lose 40 pounds by graduation" into understanding my body will release weight at a rate that is healthy and works best for it. My level of control is limited. And I have not tried to set absolute goals for a long time. I am calm in knowing I will arrive when I arrive...it is counter productive to stress over something that is, ultimately, out of my control. Instead I am happy that, right now, I look and feel better than I have in decades.

I think all healthy, gradual weight loss WOEs invoke these feelings. I suspect living with JUDDD's bounces reinforce them.

And, yes, some of our newbies are having trouble getting the magic started. I encourage everyone to do an internet search on 'sources of B3' (or niacin or nicotinamide. Then check what you are eating. This really may explain part or all of what is going on. In fact, since LC and JUDDD seem to be related at a deep level, this may explain some of those WTH LC stalls.

Last edited by gotsomeold; 10-01-2012 at 12:41 AM..
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Old 10-01-2012, 01:42 AM   #6
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Really great answers about JUDDD Magic ther Nancy. Thanks for stating it so clearly, I agree on all counts.

Thanks Cici too, this is so timely for me. Just yesterday I found some Niacin that had caused me flushing some time back when I took it on an empty stomach. I thought I'd start taking it this week on my UDs. Well I won't be starting it now.
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Old 10-01-2012, 11:29 AM   #7
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Thanks so much, Nancy, for putting the Magic into words. I've been wondering when I would "know" it's reallly kicked into gear. I feel good most days, physically and mood-wise. Losses are happening. Skin is looking better. I guess I can say I'm seeing the magic. Hopefully it just keeps building.

Thanks!
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Old 10-01-2012, 11:50 AM   #8
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That's quite interesting, I've often felt and heard (anecdotally not scientifically) that taking B vitamins interferes with weight loss.
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Old 10-02-2012, 05:08 AM   #9
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Cici52, thank you for sharing this information just had a google myself it is very interesting.

I just had a look at the multi vitamins I take and they do include niacin. I don't know for sure but I would imagine it would be difficult to find some without. Has anyone had any success?
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Old 10-02-2012, 10:07 AM   #10
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Coincidence? I started taking B3 or Niacin about 3 months ago. For my cholesterol. And... now I am wondering if it has inhibited my SIRT1. Very interesting!! I think I will stop taking it and see what happens.
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Old 10-02-2012, 12:41 PM   #11
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I haven't looked for supplements w/o the niacin but have decided that now that I am allowed all foods, there should be no reason to supplement.
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Old 10-02-2012, 01:19 PM   #12
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I just bought mine but I too will do without now, it is certainly worth a try. I definitely feel the so called magic on a DD and perhaps coincidentally I don't take them because I don't eat until dinner and don't want to take them on an empty stomach. Perhaps I can blame the vitamins for my poor history on UDs.
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Old 10-03-2012, 11:28 AM   #13
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It occurred to me today that my overly enthusiastic consumption of SF Red Bull (mostly to stay alert at work) might be one reason I've never 'felt the magic' - I looked at the ingredients and niacin supplement is one of the ingredients.
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Old 10-03-2012, 12:38 PM   #14
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I think the science is not finished in this area. So, the sirtuin/antiaging thing is being looked at from a number of different angles. The articles I find have little about human studies. Also, it seems there is more to the story than just limiting calories with regard to the benefits of intermittent fasting.

On another board, someone did some research and came up with some studies that suggest limiting protein consumption to .8g/KG body weight because of its effect on increasing IGF1 in the body. Since that is a very small percent of a normal days calories, it leaves one with a lot of veggies and fruit to fill up the day.

Another study says several flavones, similar to luteolin, have been
found to activate sirtuins. Flavones are found in vegetables and fruits.

I have trouble understanding the science and wish a better student would jump in here, but my take on the whole thing is that we are kind of a self controlled experiment. It is clear that intermittent calorie restriction is a good weight loss tool for some of us. It is clear that some of us are experiencing other health benefits since they are doing this. If it's working for you, don't change a thing. If it isn't, these articles and all the other info out there give us a place to start adjusting our program to get better results. Regarding the aging/health issues, like anything else, we aren't likely to be awesome by eating junk then adding vitamins.

I am trying to add a couple URLs. Fingers crossed.


Long-term effects of calorie or protein restriction on serum IGF-1 and IGFBP-3 concentration in humans

http://benthamscience.com/lddd/sample/lddd4-1/009AJ.pdf
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Old 10-04-2012, 03:31 AM   #15
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Cici you are doing a great service by sharing your research. Many thanks and feel free to continue!

Research about SIRTs and anti-aging has exploded recently. This time last year, when I was trying to decide whether I wanted to start JUDDD, internet searches yielded limited results. This year the same searches result in amazing studies. I suspect we have a looooong way to go before all of this is completely understood. I also think we really on the cutting edge of very important information.

I have taken a multi with B vitamins throughout my JUDDD journey. But I have not taken B supplements. I suspect (as with all things) quantity of niacin + level of health + metabolism will all play into the eventual equation.
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