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Old 09-08-2012, 10:55 AM   #1
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Can I gripe about Dr Johnson's book?

Read it and while I feel it's very useful for a diet novice but some people who know a little about IF might find it redundant.

Where it really went off the rails for me was the vilification of saturated fats. 50+ years the link between diet, cholesterol and heart disease has been disputed and IMO it's been disproven for 30+ years yet he still uses the old cliche term "Artery Clogging Saturated Fats". What's worse is he falls right in line with Ancel Keys and the USDA trying to link SF with higher LDL and states incorrectly that it doesn't change HDL. SF's have been shown to leave the ratio of LDL/HDL cholesterol alone and unsaturated fats, which meats have, improve that ratio. The net result in a diet free from highly insulinogenic foods is a net improvement of your cholesterol profile.

It is a sore point for me because I've had many people, very adamantly at times, state that my choice in doing an atkin's diet would kill me. My former doctor eluded to his (incorrect) belief that it was a suicide diet for someone like me (with high BP). Yet when the blood work came back with improvements all across the board it's "unusual" or "unexpected" and my weight loss was credited with the improvements and the diet was still vilified.

He even attacks the poor little egg. Sure, in one paragraph he says he's all for the little guy but when you look at his eating recommendations he only lists egg whites and stats that the yolk should be avoided by anyone on a cholesterol reducing diet.

Based on all the research that I've seen so far I do believe in an IF type diet and do believe it has many benefits but it bothers me when someone is so forward looking in one area and so hopelessly stuck following a 50yo failed hypothesis. If it wasn't for the independent work I've reviewed and I was just going on his book alone I'm not sure I would have given it a try.

He also pokes at the Atkins diet specifically and IMO unfairly miscategorises it. It's not the first time I've seen the Atkins diet referred to as almost a no carb diet. When you are actively losing weight it does restrict the carbs but as a maintenance diet, if you stick to the lower GI carbs you can eat almost all you want. I never found it restrictive as a maintenance diet. Initially he states the atkins diet is a poor diet due to it's restrictiveness and I agree - it can be tough to stick to 20-30g of carbs a day. However, later he brings out the "artery clogging saturated fats" argument against atkins...

I'll get off my soap box now... I just had to get that out of my system.

Last edited by cobra2411; 09-08-2012 at 10:58 AM..
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Old 09-08-2012, 11:38 AM   #2
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I would venture to guess the majority of us take the good parts and leave the rest. Many here follow LC while JUDDDing. To me, it's more the IF aspect of the WOE. So on my UD yesterday I had eggs cooked in butter! GASP! But I also ate some Lindt truffles! Bigger gasp!
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Old 09-08-2012, 11:47 AM   #3
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I suspect, especially way back in 2007, Dr J did all that IF/low cal research, wrote his book, and was told the book had to include a lot of what we all recognize as being heard-it-a-thousand-times feldergarb. I also suspect at that time he really did not know from weight loss - except where alternate day dieting was concerned...so, he included chapters we all tend to avoid.

For me, it is a durn good thing I found this forum and started JUDDDing before I read the book. Had I read the book first, I would have avoided JUDDD.

I think Dr J has learned a lot about weight loss and nutrition since way back when. Someone here said they exchanged a discussion with Dr J, during which he expressed the opinion that LC and JUDDD are a tremendously healthy and productive combination.

I wish he would write a new, updated book.
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GOAL 10/3/12
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I did not "lose" weight. I evicted it. It is gone and it ain't coming back!

JUDDD cares about calories. JUDDD does not care what you eat. Your body probably does.

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Old 09-08-2012, 11:49 AM   #4
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I don't sweat it.

Here's the thing.. at least for me. Frankly, there isn't very much to write about when it comes to this type of a diet plan. Many have been doing it for years, for decades, for centuries. OK, perhaps not by exact percentages and calorie numbers, but there just isn't anything new about folks eating quite a bit more heavily on one day and quite a bit less on the next to balance it out, or to cut it down. Many people do so just naturally. Slim ladies have been doing it for as long as I can remember. My mother used to go easy on what she was eating today if she was going to be attending a big feasting occasion tomorrow. Or she'd *watch what she was eating today because tomorrow is Thanksgiving*..etc. So he's trying to make a book out of a concept that isn't exactly his alone, and isn't exactly anything new.

Secondly, he absolutely tells us we can eat whatever foods we want to make our daily diets and menus from. There are no lists of Must Eat foods and no lists of Forbidden Foods. And, there are no *plans* for what you need to eat for breakfast, for lunch, for supper. That's all up to us.

Except, after all of the above, there isn't hardly anything to write about to make a book. LOL So he can give a few dietary suggestions and comments, if he wants to, if he needs to, to bulk this thing up enough to make a book out of it. And since low saturated fat is a current prevalent thought and accepted by some/many, it's OK with me if he's one of those folks.

So here's another thing. I'm also one who thinks many folks eat too high and heavily on saturated fats. From this way of thinking: First, I believe Mother Nature wants us to eat saturated fats.... some. But I don't believe it was designed as something for us to gorge ourselves on year round. And the reason I tend to think this way is because when I think of us as being wild humans, hunter/gathers in the earliest time when we became fully modern humans, in almost all of the parts of the continents we inhabited, we wouldn't have been able to feast on eggs every day, every week, year round. We'd be able to get them during nesting season. And then, that's about it until next year.

I've eaten a lot of wild game. (I'm a bit unusual.) I've eaten bison, deer, elk, pronghorn antelope, wild turkeys, pheasant, grouse, quail, pigeons, rabbits, squirrels, raccoon, beaver, frog legs, snapping turtles, freshwater clams, crawfish, and all sorts of caught wild fish. NONE of these meats was fatty. Wild game meat is so lean we have to add fat from our domestic animals to make it real yummy. LOL

Yes, the eskimos eat animals with more blubber. But, humankind didn't develop up there, eating saturated fat in that quantity. The inuit migrated into that area and stayed and adapted to that unusual diet over eons, and most of us haven't decended from that eskimo bloodline.

There really is beginning to be more thought, once again, that a great overage of saturated fats in some diets, really is leading to some problems for some of us.

For myself, I feel I certainly eat plenty of saturated fat. I do like my succulent fatty pork butt roasts. With plenty of potatoes and cabbage roasted in with it! I don't think it is a killer, but I also don't believe it is the god-given manna from heaven that some preach either.

So, like I said. I don't really care what Dr. Johnson said on the subject, or the other doctors said, or what all the current diet gurus are preaching and blogging about. LOL
I just eat some of everything in the world, including the grains and some sugar sometimes. I like it all. I follow my JUDDD Up and Down rotations and just enjoy my life now.

Welcome to JUDDD, but don't sweat any of it. We have folks here eating so many different diets. You'll just add your favorite way of eating to the mix. Hugs, and Welcome! Glad you're here! Woo Hoo!
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Old 09-08-2012, 12:02 PM   #5
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True, he is just one person introducing a flavor of intermittent fasting.
And he's a plastic surgeon not a bariatric doc.
And mainstream medicine tells a lot of lies right in the face of the evidence, so we all have to find the truth that applies to ourselves and ignore the rubbish.
glad you found IF and this lovely group for sharing the journey
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Old 09-08-2012, 12:15 PM   #6
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I'm not sweating it too much, just a gripe because I'm sensitive to it. I would say the difference between the fats of today vs what we would have eaten say 1000 years ago is that we don't eat much organ meat anymore. We get fatty lean meat because we bulk up the animals. The quality of the meat is a very different argument and another pet peeve of mine because when I'm talking about whether or not saturated fat is good for you someone always seems to interject the "hormone injected, antibiotic laden meat" argument and you're really talking apples to oranges.

I'm open to the argument we need to avoid production line foods as they are typically lacking in nutrients. There's even some argument to be made about too much protein because protein causes cells to speed up their reproduction and one of fasting's benefits is that it slows that process down allowing the cells to heal instead of just die off and be replaced.

When I got to the nutrition part of the book I just started skimming pages, so it make the book a fast read; which is nice . I'm looking forward to this diet and believe in the health benefits of it. And no, I didn't suspect that Dr Johnson invented this diet but he has really condensed the research about the benefits and presented them in an easy way to understand. And no, he didn't make a "forbidden foods" list; I just wish he was a little softer on the "artery clogging saturated fats" bit.

Quote:
glad you found IF and this lovely group for sharing the journey
Yes... Thank you all...

As I said, by the book alone I don't know if I would have adopted this diet but between this site and another I've learned a great deal about nutrition and various diets with their benefits and problems.

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Old 09-08-2012, 12:41 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gotsomeold View Post

For me, it is a durn good thing I found this forum and started JUDDDing before I read the book. Had I read the book first, I would have avoided JUDDD.

I think Dr J has learned a lot about weight loss and nutrition since way back when. Someone here said they exchanged a discussion with Dr J, during which he expressed the opinion that LC and JUDDD are a tremendously healthy and productive combination.

I wish he would write a new, updated book.
I !!! If I have said this once, I have said it a hundred times. Please update so that we can see more info on the benefits and nuances added in.
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Old 09-08-2012, 12:59 PM   #8
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I have to admit that the same parts of the book griped me too. Here's some of my "ramblings." I think we can definitely take "some" wisdom from every approach.

*I believe in the Paleo diet and the encouragement to eat during a small 4 - 5 hour window (though I could never handle all of the restrictions.)
*I believe in much of Gary Taubes research
*I have seen first hand what Atkin's 72 does for a person's lipids/trigs/etc. with my husband - so for him, that is a heart healthy diet.
*I feel the same way about South Beach in that there is good science in parts of the book but rubbish when it comes to saturated fats.
*I think overall, weight loss has to do with total caloric intake once you pass a certain age and therefore, you have to resrtict fats to cut your caloric intake but I have also seen Atkin's work for people like magic (under 40 mostly) with no restriction in calories.
* I definitely agree with Dr. Lustig's reseach and his presentation on Youtube "Sugar, The Bitter Truth" as to the causes of obesity (barring throid illness, leptin resistance, hormonal imbalances, etc. or things that have knocked the body out of balance!)
* I definitely disagree that "everyone needs MORE whole grain" .....total B.S.!!!

But, in reality, it may not be so much what a person eats as it is what a person's body DOES with what they eat. My mom, who is 86 and is an insulin dependent diabetic and also has Hashimoto's cannot be convinced the gluten or lectins are bad for her, no matter how much research I show to her (while trying hard to take her "Captain Wafers w/ Cream Cheese" crackers away cause she'll eat two 6 packs daily and they spike the mess out of her blood sugar. This is very problematic because the AMA tells diabetics carbs are OK. In fact, the nurse that comes around the house encourages her to eat bowl of shredded wheat with milk for breakfast with bananas on top!!!!

On the opposite end of the spectrum is my friend that is a vegetarian and she does very well with all those carbs, reduced protein, and reduced fats. I, however, with my metabolism would be sick as heck on that diet. Everyone responds differently and that's why I say all research has some merit but each of us has to listen to our body and see how it responds......like my recent experiment with Chamomile and the allergic reaction I had. It might be good for some people.....but not for me.

Sorry so long but I had the same reaction as the OP.

Last edited by Aeroangie; 09-08-2012 at 01:05 PM..
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Old 09-11-2012, 10:56 AM   #9
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I don't think anything has been 'proven' w/o question one way or the other.
There is always conflicting evidence and you'll always find what suits your beliefs.

Fortunately, we don't need to worry about this since JUDDD relieves us of obsessing (how many times have I said that now? Should I shut up?)
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