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Old 08-14-2012, 01:35 AM   #31
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Stephanie!

After eight months of JUDDDing, I long since concluded the most important things to do after a loss of control are try to figure out why it happened, and make the next DD day really good. You handled both of those. Very good.

After much thought, I decided I have two suggestions to add to this most excellent discussion.

1) As a possible trigger, I know I would wake up hungry on an UD I anticipated lunch at a great buffet AND a special occasion dinner. 'Anticipation' being the trigger here. That may have played into the event for you.

2) Most UDs I plan delicious, pleasurable foods in reasonable portions. But, on those infrequent and anticipated feast/special occasion days when I know I am going to be triggered because the food is going to be awesome and I really am going to cherish every bite, I don't lose control - ever. Because I make a conscious and very counter-intuitive decision.

I give myself permission to over-eat. Really, I stand (alone) in the room and say aloud, "Today, and only today, I have a lot of wonderful food choices and I am going to enjoy each and every one of them so to heck with counting calories. No guilt. No stress. Tomorrow is going to be a great DD. The only thing I am doing is slowing myself down a little.".

I realize this is not going to work for everyone.

But for me removing the stress of losing control by changing what control means has a strong impact: Once I have given myself permission to over-eat, to throw food on the floor and roll around in it; to metaphorically fill the bathtub with melted chocolate, sprinkle black salt on my head, then grab a straw and jump in.......well, I tend to savor smaller portions and recognize when I have had enough of each delicious taste. By giving myself permission to be out of control, by abrogating control, I find I usually eat sensibly. And, if I don't, no worries. Tomorrow is always a great DD and the added weight melts away.

Stephanie, keep experimenting, keep rotating. You really are doing great.
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JUDDD cares about calories. JUDDD does not care what you eat. Your body probably does.

Last edited by gotsomeold; 08-14-2012 at 01:42 AM..
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Old 08-14-2012, 05:34 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stephdray View Post
Thanks everybody who pointed out the potency of white bread. Growing up, we never had desserts in the house and I didn't crave them, either. However, we had pasta and bread all the time. These were mainstays of our very Italian household. (Have I mentioned I was obese by the age of five?) I'm hoping that I can still include them on Up Days on JUDDD but from now on I will be more wary.

Beverly, I'm not sure if I'm going to end up falling into your camp on the min-meals or with Pat. They did seem to help me manage a difficult event, but on the other hand, I managed today by just dividing up my calories with a high protein lunch and snack and a good portioned dinner.

Brewstate, I've done that too. The whole 'eating and it doesn't even taste good!' thing. That's one thing that I've never done on JUDDD, though. This WOE has kind of made me militant about eating nothing but the best on Up Days...so that's a start, right?

On the other hand, eating to the point of discomfort--that's not fun. I envy Pat and her easy way of handling cinnamon rolls. She's giving me something to aim for

Yamyam, welcome back!

Babsbabs, that's so encouraging to hear! I'm hanging on, never fear. Maybe some things need to be gotten out of the system, I dunno

Very good perspective, patty. Thank you!

JoyJoy, you're breaking my heart. That post really moved me. I relate to that completely. I can be a perfectionist, and you're absolutely right that things were going wrong the few Down days before. Chink, chink, chink. It was whittling away at my control. Irritating increased hunger. A screwed up recipe. Changing the routine. A morning when I thought I should have dropped another pound and instead, gained. I didn't think they were bothering me, but they were probably building up a head of steam to the point where my dieting brain just checked out. Because honestly, if I'd been able to stop and reason with myself, I'd have stopped eating long before I even started the bread. I wasn't hungry. I was actually full. What rational person keeps eating when they are so full that they are going to be sick? That's something really loony going on and I don't get it. But it's something that I'm going to work on healing.

You are really in the midst of a whirlwind of new experiences with food consumption and weight management and rightly spending some time finding what works most comfortably and effectively for you and the routine of your life.

But I definitely did want to comment on your note above about me being comfortable eating a cinnamon roll. Yes, it was frosted and cinnamon-y and warmed and buttered with the butter all melted... in other words supremely delicious. I really enjoyed it. I saved the second one (2 for DH and 2 for me) for another day, wrapped and frozen. It didn't used to be that way for me.

There is something about JUDDD that finally gets through to your brain. Or maybe it's your stomach. Or that finely tuned and balanced chemical balance within you. Something in you is able to change.

Something about that long 36-hour JUDDD fast on so few calories works a miracle. It takes some time. JUDDD is changing you, inside. But JUDDD is a IF plan that is different from other IF plans. The fasting period is longer. It seems to work a bit differently. And there is something about that length of the fast that ramps up the healing within.. or something. So realize that there is a difference in how plans affect you, physically and mentally. A Fast-5 plan, for example, holds you to the fasting for merely 19 hours before you are into your feasting period again. JUDDD's fasting period (allowing only a few calories..) extends for nearly twice that length, and seems to be responsible for so much more than just weight loss. I think part of what JUDDD does is reprogram our responses to trigger foods!

So if you choose to fast until suppertime on Down Days, it works just fine. But if you need to eat every hour to keep your blood sugars stable, that choice works just fine too. Do it long enough and.. you'll be eating some of the most fabulous bread in the world, quite sensibly, on your Up Days. If you want to. But don't be surprised if you don't always want to. You may choose the bread, or you may choose a slice of cantaloupe instead. It's pretty interesting to witness your responses to former trigger foods change after a few weeks/months. I expect it will happen for you too.

Just keep doing JUDDD, hold to your extended fasting state on DDs, regardless of how you take in those calories during that period, and let JUDDD do it's thing within you!

You finally get to the realization that you don't have to overeat. Anything. Not fine steak protein. Not exquisite cheese fat. Not amazing bread carbohydrate. You get to eat it all, but you don't need to overeat on any of it, delicious as it is, because the world has an unending supply of your favorite yummy, and you can have it forever. You really don't have to eat it all today.
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Last edited by SoHappy; 08-14-2012 at 05:39 AM..
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Old 08-14-2012, 06:08 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gotsomeold View Post
Stephanie!
I give myself permission to over-eat.

Once I have given myself permission to over-eat, to throw food on the floor and roll around in it; to metaphorically fill the bathtub with melted chocolate, sprinkle black salt on my head, then grab a straw and jump in.......
Now this is an excellent suggestion! I will envision this the next time.

Pat, so would you not suggest doing JUDDD the Fast 5 way? I am trying something new and just curious.

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Old 08-14-2012, 06:26 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by sunday View Post
Now this is an excellent suggestion! I will envision this the next time.

Pat, so would you not suggest doing JUDDD the Fast 5 way? I am trying something new and just curious.

.
No, I'm not necessarily saying that. As you know, JUDDD can be done in conjunction with most eating plans, so cycling your daily calories aka JUDDD can be worked into a daily eating window of allotted eating time, aka Fast-5.

In this situation, you are still eating full calories on Up Days, within your window of eating time allotted, and then you are eating at your 500 calories or fewer on your Down Days, still just within your Fast-5 eating window. So you are still holding to your big 36-hour (near) fast on your Down Days, and I strongly feel that's a large key to much of the extra benefit we receive from JUDDD over the months.

With Fast-5, the number of calories are up to you. You can eat at a level of 1300 calories daily if you want. Or 900 calories one day and 1500 the next. Or whatever you choose.. just within the hours of your open window. It's the low calories of JUDDD that will turn your fasting period into a long JUDDD 36-hour fast within the workings of Fast-5. (If you are eating at so few calories, 500 and fewer on Down Days, apparently your body doesn't even really recognize that as anything but fasting. LOL)

So Fast-5 can work or not work for the 36 hour fast of JUDDD, depending on whether you combine it with JUDDD.

A lot of this is why many folks with blood sugar problems can do JUDDD if they spread their JUDDD Down Day calories over the entire day, to keep their BS levels even. And if eating every hour or so can keep the hungries away too, they can successfully follow the long JUDDD fast, to the ultimate benefit of their physical health. But that long JUDDD 36-hour fast period works some pretty amazing miracles in us, so really worth going for in my opinion.
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Old 08-14-2012, 09:56 AM   #35
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very interesting thread. I seriously don't have anything to add, just happy (? hmm, maybe not "happy") to know that I'm not alone. Seeking perfection, but falling short quite often. Doesn't stop me from seeking it though

I do find that on my DD's, a "binge" is like 100-200 extra calories of low calorie things-- pickles, beets, cheese wedges, 2 crackers, etc... I don't usually go right off the deep end...
But on UD, it's much easier to say -- oh, he says in the book we just "eat normally" so I'll go ahead and order all the sushi.

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Old 08-14-2012, 10:50 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoHappy View Post
No, I'm not necessarily saying that. As you know, JUDDD can be done in conjunction with most eating plans, so cycling your daily calories aka JUDDD can be worked into a daily eating window of allotted eating time, aka Fast-5.

In this situation, you are still eating full calories on Up Days, within your window of eating time allotted, and then you are eating at your 500 calories or fewer on your Down Days, still just within your Fast-5 eating window. So you are still holding to your big 36-hour (near) fast on your Down Days, and I strongly feel that's a large key to much of the extra benefit we receive from JUDDD over the months.

With Fast-5, the number of calories are up to you. You can eat at a level of 1300 calories daily if you want. Or 900 calories one day and 1500 the next. Or whatever you choose.. just within the hours of your open window. It's the low calories of JUDDD that will turn your fasting period into a long JUDDD 36-hour fast within the workings of Fast-5. (If you are eating at so few calories, 500 and fewer on Down Days, apparently your body doesn't even really recognize that as anything but fasting. LOL)

So Fast-5 can work or not work for the 36 hour fast of JUDDD, depending on whether you combine it with JUDDD.

A lot of this is why many folks with blood sugar problems can do JUDDD if they spread their JUDDD Down Day calories over the entire day, to keep their BS levels even. And if eating every hour or so can keep the hungries away too, they can successfully follow the long JUDDD fast, to the ultimate benefit of their physical health. But that long JUDDD 36-hour fast period works some pretty amazing miracles in us, so really worth going for in my opinion.
Yes, I think the balance in blood sugar is important part of this plan. I just thought I would do a 7 hour window and then not eat until UD at about 17 hours after my last meal. It may or may not be advantageous, just trying to find out if it makes a difference.
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Old 08-14-2012, 01:15 PM   #37
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I think there is a world of difference btw ADF and Fast 5.
Fast 5 is just delaying eating and many eat ALL their cals for the day in the window.
The very thought makes me green but for some it is comfortable.

ADF actually reduces cals so it is more of a fast and as Pat pointed out, quite a long fast, really....36 compared to 19.
There seem to be plenty of JUDDD ers that save their cals for a large meal. So that would be an example of combining the two.


My plan is, rather than commit myself to one way or the other, I'll just do what feels right for the day. If I'm hungry on a DD, I may find mini meals make it easier.
But if it feel right or I'm super busy, a couple larger feeds may work out.
I am afraid if I commited to one way or the other then I would not be happy if it didn't work out...getting too hungry and going bananas!!

One thing I know for sure is that I won't be able to sleep if I'm hungry so I need to save a little something....
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Old 08-14-2012, 01:50 PM   #38
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Steph: Wanted to weigh in on the "wasted food" thoughts you had. You could freeze that, couldn't you? I bought a "Seal-A-Meal" but never got around to using it so gave it to my daughter. I find most leftovers freeze just fine in Zip Lock freezer bags or Rubbermaid containers.

If I really like something and have leftovers, sometimes I make a small portion that would be really satisfying on a DD and freeze that much of it. Just a thought.

On another topic, one of my sisters discovered a bunch of research about drinking alkaline water and focusing on foods that are more alkaline than acidic and all the control that comes with that.

I looked around on amazon and found a book entitled "The PH Miracle for Weight Loss" by Robert Young. Yesterday morning I read it on my Kindle. Of course, I don't agree with all the ideas but there is some good stuff in there and I'm thinking there might be something to it. I tried a few tricks like pulling out my bottle of Acetyl L-Carnitine that I bought and never opened.

He suggests the amount to take (very soft gel caps, easy to swallow) and how it does all kinds of good things from burning stored fat to controlling cravings and appetite. The suggested dose is 4 at different times of day, but I only took 2 yesterday and seriously noticed a difference. It's supposed to be great brain "food" as well.

He teaches you how to turn regular water into alkaline water. I did that yesterday too with the simplest of his ideas. (It's adding a very small amount of baking soda to purified water. I have a Pure Source filter for my fridge ice and water dispencer. Yesterday along with the ACV and Chloriphyll in my morning 16 ounce glass of iced water, I added a half teaspoon of baking powder. Makes it sort of bubbly but tastes good and really killed my appetite and make me feel perky!)

Just thought that was interesting. Alkaline foods include citrus fruits and lots of green vegetables, especially spinach. He says the weight will drop off your body when you get to a point of being PH balanced in your bloodstream.

Weight sure dropped off me yesterday to the tune of -4.8 pounds! Don't know if it was the drink, the supplement or just the normal calorie restriction of my 400 calorie DD, but, I'll take it! I like reading books like Young's because there are a lot of easy things that can be incorporated into my JUDD Woe.
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Old 08-14-2012, 01:55 PM   #39
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Interesting! I remember reading the author's website a while back and finding it intriguing! Has your sister had success YamYam? One of my fav things to do is make ACV/Lemon water for my first drink each morning. I haven't had a lot of weight loss because of it, but wonder if I drank it more regularly if it would suffice? I don't know how soda would taste in this drink, but I guess I could try it as well.

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Old 08-14-2012, 01:57 PM   #40
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Quote:
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Oh, man, Steph. Sistah. I am the queen of this one. Makes me uncomfortable reading it, but thanks, thanks for posting this.

DDs are hard, but they are nothing compared to the snap UUADs for me.

I agree about flour, chips, and all the triggers.

I read what Dawn says, about write before you eat, which works well for me except on these days, because, as far as I can see, the snap begins wayyyyy before I can start counting.

Here's my neophyte's perspective on my own rendition.

1. I'm a perfectionist, so that every chink in a day adds up (failed recipe on a DD, new method on a DD, bad phone call on a DD, etc., etc.) Even while I'm doing the day successfully, an opposing force is building. I wake up out of control on UD.

2. I am of two minds. One got me fat. The other is getting me slim and happier. With every chink from point #1, my new mind, the slim one, gets a bit rocked. A bit unsteady. And with every chink, my old, screw-this-discipline mind rears up. Some balance begins to tip. I'm okay for a bit. I'm sane for a bit. And then I snap. Food is in my mouth without any thought or capacity for thought. I don't snap out of it till I'm stuffed.

My current approaches:

1. Instant forgiveness. Otherwise I'm feeding the opposing force.

2. Understanding this is a practice, and that this particular part of practice is important or I wouldn't keep experiencing it.

3. My old mind and my new mind began a bizillion miles apart. I'm bringing them together through this JUDDDing. I can feel that. And a miracle this size won't happen without practice and some fierce love for myself.

4 I keep looking at the part of me that wants the snap. Rather than condemn that part outright, I consider that this part loves freedom, spontaneity, and wild excess. Those qualities are lovely. I want them to be a part of my life. My job is to hear this and find new, constructive ways to include these things in my life.

This is working. Slowly.


Anyway, blah, blah. I do suspect a lot of us who carry weight are floating on top of a sea of these kinds of issues. How lucky are we to be exploring them while taking excellent care of ourselves?

So happy to be learning from you.
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Old 08-14-2012, 02:09 PM   #41
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YamYam, YamYam--WTG on those 4.8lbs down!!!

And--would you mind starting a thread on L-carnitine?

I have a bottle of it & I was taking it a few months ago, but I think I read that it should be taken on an empty stomach so I was very sporadic with it (since I couldn't put it in the pillboxes for my vitamins/herbs that I take with meals). Plus I started taking L-Glutamine, which was easier because I just put it in my water bottle and sip from it all day.

I will try to refresh my memory/read some reviews about l-carnitine, but I must have been impressed with it at some point if I bought it!
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Old 08-14-2012, 02:12 PM   #42
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Steph,

JUDDD has a learning curve as does anything new. I'm also a recovering perfectionist. Perfection is essentially unatainable therefore a total set up for disapointment. I hate being disappointed, disappointing others or disappointing myself. Do you see the bind that I put myself in... it was exhausting! Be kind to yourself and forgive yourself!
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Old 08-14-2012, 02:23 PM   #43
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Quote:
He says the weight will drop off your body when you get to a point of being PH balanced in your bloodstream.
Just FYI--our bloodstream always HAS to be pH balanced. It's one of the most crucial parts of our survival; it has a rather narrow range of 7.34–7.45. However--our bodies will do anything to maintain the pH, including pulling calcium from our bones!!!

So my understanding of the alkaline diet is...if we make it easier for our bodies to stay at optimal pH through diet, minerals, etc, our bodies can focus on other jobs...therefore healing & losing weight should be easier.

(PS--I *was* raised by hippies and have worked in health food stores... I know I could be explaining it wrong & I hope any scientists or skeptics who read this will forgive me if anything I've said is inaccurate.)

ETA:
My boss at the health food store was way big on the acid/alkaline thing, and had a whole (expensive) regimen/diet change for people she did nutritional consults for. I always snickered silently as I put 1/8tsp of baking soda ($2.99 for 806 servings) into my water instead of buying disgusting wheatgrass shots ($2.99 for one serving).

Just think about Alka-Seltzer...ALKA...Alkaline...
It used to be advertised/known for so much more than indigestion: hangover, leg cramps, "the blahs".
Alka-Seltzer Gold doesn't even have aspirin in it; it's just baking soda & citric acid, both of which are very alkalizing.

Darn it, I haven't been doing it as much lately, but I used to "alkalize" with baking soda any time I feel yucky...
sore muscles, groggy, headache, etc. I definitely noticed that if I took a good dose before bed, I would sleep better and wake up feeling much more alert and energetic.

Why do I forget these things?!!! I've been having such trouble with insomnia lately!
One supposed symptom for being "acidic": you sigh a lot. If you find yourself doing this, focus on deep breathing...it's alkalizing! And free!!!

Sorry for the threadjack! But I'm so glad to have been reminded about baking soda!!!

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Old 08-14-2012, 03:40 PM   #44
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P.J. Love your post! On so many levels. Since this is all new to me, maybe I understood it wrong. He (Dr. Young) actually analyzes people's blood under a microscope and in the book he shows before and after pictures of their blood. Veeeerrrrrrrrryyyyyy interesting!

OMGosh! When you said something about knowing but not doing. That's me! I know these things but do I always do them? NO! For me, I know lean protein keeps me satisfied and full longer. Do I always go for lean protein when I'm hungry? Uh. no.

When I read about the baking soda thing it blew me away. My father always, always put baking soda in his water. Every day. I never asked him why. I always thought he must have a tummy ache or something. Probably he did it because his father did it.

Funny thing, my father was thin! and he was pretty healthy for a guy who worked in the coal mines when he was young!

I will go back to the book and read again what he points out about L-Carnitine and then I'll start a thread. Maybe we can talk about that and some other stuff, too.

I put the half teaspoon in my 16 ounce glass of ice water again today along with one tablespoon of ACV and about half a tablespoon of the liquid chlorophyll. I'm really loving how I feel! And so far I've had one L-Carnitine capsule. I may do another later, maybe not. I have absolutely no appetite whatsoever and it's an UD.

I have planned filet mignon with veggies, soup and red wine for dinner. I want to actually be hungry for it!

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Old 08-15-2012, 01:41 AM   #45
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Leftovers

I agree leftovers can be a problem. Here is how I handled it. If there is enough for at least one meal, I store or freeze it. Then, every few weeks The Leftovers Club holds a meeting.

The Leftovers Club is a rag-tag bunch of nearby family members and friends and friends of friends. Everyone brings their detritus and something fresh to throw into an enormous salad. The party is very informal with a lot of laughter and food talk. Reheating tons of food is fun. Since leftover portions tend to be small, we get a few bites of each other's favorites. Since most of us love experimenting, we get lots a variation.

The last time we met, I recall having two and five bites each of seven entries ranging from slooooowly smoked pork butt to Thai red curry cod to seared filet mignon, six veggy dishes ranging from casserole to barely steamed, seven 'refined' carbs ranging from crusty bread to four kinds of potato or rice gratin. And, of course, the salad.

Warning. The Leftovers Club never meets on DD.
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Old 08-16-2012, 06:52 AM   #46
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WOE: Enjoying JUDDD's freedom after years of low carb
Start Date: Every day!!! JUDD start 1/13/12
gotsomeold What a GREAT idea is the Leftovers Club! Just the kind of thing I would love to do!
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Old 08-16-2012, 07:11 AM   #47
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 1,170
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Stats: 290/248/250
WOE: Moderate Carb JUDDD (Lost first 4 lbs on WW)
Start Date: 7/4/2012 -- 42 lbs lost total
The Leftover's club is a brilliant solution!

And on a more personal scale, because I often have leftovers that aren't enough to make up a whole meal, perhaps once every month I'll have a "guestimating" up day with lots of different little tastes.
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