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Old 10-17-2012, 11:43 AM   #91
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No, WJS, I believe that the Horizon programme looked at 3 day fasts, alternate day fasts and 2 day (not necessarily consecutive) fasts in 7 days. The Alternate day fast allowed similar amounts to the 300 to 600 cals we typically consume on JUDDD. And the 2/7 fast also includes one 'good' meal a day, or the similar calories spread throughout the day.

I agree that that Dr J does say that a complete fast is ideal, but he also accepts it is too much to ask of most people, himself included.

Although the 3 day fast, which did include some miso soup a couple of times a day, had the greatest health benefits, the others also had very positive health benefits and weight loss.

And the suggestion on this thread is to generally eat under 30 calorie 'Meals" over the day.
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Old 10-17-2012, 11:57 AM   #92
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Quote:
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But doesn't this go against what Dr Johnson and IF recommends? For example the Horizon program advocated complete fasts.
There are now a TON of intermittent fasting diets out there, and, of course, they all vary a bit from each other, but most rely on a fasting period of a certain length before food can be consumed again.

There are also calorie cycling diet plans out there, and while they aren't necessarily intermittent, they don't rely on eating at about the same calorie level every day.

JUDDD combines these two concepts, loosely, and is casual enough that people can make it fit their preferred ways of eating.

One interesting thing about fasting is that its beneficial effects on the body still occur when the fast is held to a very low calorie intake about as well as though the fast were absolute. This is believed to show that.. given just a few calories, like we do on a JUDDD Down Day, is about as good as doing a total fast.

On JUDDD, with the few calories we eat on a Down Day, it doesn't really matter whether we eat them all at one meal, divided up into three meals a day, or into many little 30-calorie mini-meals a day. I don't recall any place in his writings where Dr. Johnson laid out when we had to consume our DD calories, or in what quantity. Or even whether we had to eat them at all. It was thought that since most people would suffer too much trying an absolute fast on DDs, and since the body didn't seem to break it's given benefits from fasting for those few calories, this would be similar to an absolute fast.

Most IF diets have a person fasting for only 12 or 14 or 16 or 20 hours.. and then getting to eat a nice big caloric satisfying meal. You fast, and then you break your fast with a good meal.

JUDDD.. because of the few calories allowed on a Down Day, effectively has the follower fasting for what amounts to about 36 HOURS. This is figured by adding all of the Down Day plus the full nighttime hours before and following it (when you also aren't eating).. so nighttime + DD + nighttime again = about 36 hours on only 500 or fewer calories, that your body doesn't even much recognize as a break-fast. That a wonderful fast.

And then it is followed by that wonderful Up Day of feasting at full maintenance level calories. (Which is actually somewhat above true maintenance level.)

JUDDD isn't a plan that has you eating a full supper every day. It is only intermittent in that it is intermittent by DAYS, rather than just a period of hours.

I'm not familiar with Horizon, so don't know what plan design that one is. I only know and follow JUDDD.
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Old 10-17-2012, 12:05 PM   #93
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Pat the Horizon prog mentioned is a BBC documentary which looked at the great health benefits of fasting. And Alternate Day dieting as we do it here came out of it very well.
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Old 10-17-2012, 12:20 PM   #94
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Pat the Horizon prog mentioned is a BBC documentary which looked at the great health benefits of fasting. And Alternate Day dieting as we do it here came out of it very well.
Thanks for the explanation. Yes, the various diet plans that include some fasting are getting more and more attention and being shown in an increasingly positive light. It's so funny that I've been reading about the calorie restriction/fasting/length-of-life studies for YEARS, and now, seemingly all of a sudden, they are the newest hottest rage in dieting for weight loss and health. What's old is new again. I think Gandhi would just roll his eyes.
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Old 10-17-2012, 12:25 PM   #95
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Exactly!
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Old 10-17-2012, 12:41 PM   #96
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As well as all the Buddhist novitiates & monks in the world. They eat one or two meals per day, must stop eating before noon, and drink butter tea the rest of the day!

ow, I'm getting a headache!!!
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Old 10-17-2012, 02:38 PM   #97
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Um, I think the world is trying their derndest to think of "creative" ways to entice people to eat less food per day per person. We are looking down the barrel at an overpopulated planet and with droughts all over the world right now, serious food shortages...I even think it's not absurd to believe we might one day have food rations again like we did in WWII.

But yeah, as Pat, Jenny and others have said, I've been looking and reading of IF for many, many years now, since the Sir2 gene studies were published!
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Old 10-18-2012, 02:04 AM   #98
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Thanks for the explanation. Yes, the various diet plans that include some fasting are getting more and more attention and being shown in an increasingly positive light. It's so funny that I've been reading about the calorie restriction/fasting/length-of-life studies for YEARS, and now, seemingly all of a sudden, they are the newest hottest rage in dieting for weight loss and health. What's old is new again. I think Gandhi would just roll his eyes.
We're IN!!
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Old 10-18-2012, 04:27 AM   #99
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We're IN!!
Yup! We're leading the way!
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Old 10-20-2012, 12:02 PM   #100
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I'm trying this tomorrow and came up with a few creative 40 calorie servings:


53 g greek yogurt mixed with an equal amount walden farms marshmallow dip and some Mio drops 40

zucchini plus southwest eggbeaters to equal 45 cals

seaweed wrap spread with laughing cow and layered with shredded carrot 45

6 g chia seed plus almond milk plus glucommannan plus Mio flavouring 40

one del monte sf peach cup (25) plus 25 g greek (20) yogurt plus cinnamon 45

1/3 bag shredded TJ's brussel sprouts (35) sauteed in chicken broth with hot sauce 40

1/4 cup fiber one plus almond milk--40

as you can tell, I love brainstorming this stuff! Thank you so much Pat for all the great ideas!
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Old 10-20-2012, 04:50 PM   #101
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This has really helped me get back to DDs under 500.
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Old 10-21-2012, 06:53 AM   #102
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Really think this is one of the best suggestion you ever came up with Pat, and you have had a few!

I see so many being helped by thinking this way.

So pleased it is helping you Cici, I know you were getting frustrated.
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Old 10-21-2012, 07:49 AM   #103
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Ah I do this but different! I got it from a book I read.

On DD, I have a half scoop of protein powder (around 60 cals) every 2 hrs in water. Around 8-9 a day . Im never hungry/starving this way and it balances my insulin levels very well so that I am in control on my UD as well!
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Old 10-31-2012, 03:04 PM   #104
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I think b_lou is doing what Angie1 is ^ and having good DD success with that.

I wanted to bump the thread-- I'm giving this a try today, and I think JoyJoy/Kristin is too

I went with every 2hrs during the day, till about 4pm, then I felt I needed to go every 1hr, so I just re-divided up my day-time meal... that seemed to work out.

I was going to do 1/2 dinner at 6 and 1/2 at 8pm... I just had maybe 1/4? of the stirfry... so I think I'll do it in 1/4's at 6pm (done), 7pm, 8pm, whatever's left... and I'll still have room for my 1c almond milk before bed.

I didn't feel "full" during the day, but I can say after about 10 bites of broccoli slaw stirfry just now, I'm like oooof.

Very interesting, to me anyway!

I'm drinking tons of water, partly b/c yesterday's food was quite salty.

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Old 10-31-2012, 04:02 PM   #105
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Hope eating this way, all day long, works easily for you... to do away with that gnawing hunger that makes DDs hard for so many of us.

You do sort of get used to not eating much on DDs.. like your brain kinda' gets retrained so it doesn't send out hunger signals to your tummy as much, but still... there's no getting around the fact that if you are trying to fast until supper or whatever you do, DDs are still harder than UDs.

And then, there is the admitted fact that I am a spoiled baby. I don't want to be plagued with a growling hungry tummy. I want to eat! I don't want to suffer one pang! LOLOL

This eating little mini-meals every hour was the secret for me. No hunger. None. I most often can't even finish all the tiny feedings that have been planned right up until bedtime. I'm just too full and uninterested. It seems odd to me to put together *Pat* and *uninterested in eating more on a DD* in the same sentence, but that's how this plan works for me.

Just glad it's helping some of the others who are trying it also. Yay! Anything that helps us succeed! ...
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Old 10-31-2012, 04:13 PM   #106
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I thought I was the only one being a spoiled baby!

Anything to not feel hungry. And this is working great!

Thanks Pat
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:44 PM   #107
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... I most often can't even finish all the tiny feedings that have been planned right up until bedtime.
I think next time I do this, I plan for every hour from about 3pm onward, b/c it's 8:38pm right now, I'm done with the stir fry and I'm still hungry.

Not KILLER hungry, but kinda empty. I'll just drink some water or maybe one of my many teas for now

Quote:
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I thought I was the only one being a spoiled baby!
and I make 3 I *hate* feeling empty. It's all psychological, both the feeling of hunger and the hatred of "not having"... but I'm working through it.

*I can tolerate mild discomfort*

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Old 10-31-2012, 05:50 PM   #108
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LOL, You Guys. Glad I'm not alone.

And the thing is, I don't really mind feeling *empty*... because there are times when I can feel that without the feeling of hunger, and it's actually a rather pleasant feeling. Sort of a lean, flat belly sort of feeling. But the key is, it has to occur without accompanying gnawing hunger, 'cause when that kicks in, I get to acting real pizzy.
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Old 10-31-2012, 06:03 PM   #109
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I think I'm going to try this with both UD and DD's. DD's aren't really a problem, except I'll get hungry and not really think about what I'm eating and make a bad choice. UD's I never eat enough.

Good idea!
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Old 10-31-2012, 08:13 PM   #110
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And then, there is the admitted fact that I am a spoiled baby. I don't want to be plagued with a growling hungry tummy. I want to eat! I don't want to suffer one pang! LOLOL
Add me to the list of anti-sufferers. I thought I was such a sissy until trying this. It works great. Honestly, though, I don't watch the clock because I'm not hungry. I did have a little problem keeping my bites under 35 but now have some great options.
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Old 10-31-2012, 08:29 PM   #111
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I apparently have to schedule all the way to midnight, b/c it's 11ish and I just HAD to have a couple triangles of light cheese... I also had 2T of pb2 (made with water) along iwth my almond milk.
So I'm closer to 600 for the day. Still, not bad for an experiment, and I'll know better for next time
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Old 10-31-2012, 09:07 PM   #112
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Soren, I have to schedule til midnight, too! I stay up later than the rest of my family. I don't start until 1 or 2 in the afternoon, except for my coffee with SF Swiss Mocha every morning.

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Old 10-31-2012, 09:25 PM   #113
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I don't know if it would help, but I never start eating til 10 or 11 and I have hot lemon and coconut oil (1 tsp). Really helps with hunger later in the day. My last minimeal is at 7pm
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Old 11-01-2012, 02:26 AM   #114
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It definitely adapts to our sleep/wake times, doesn't it. I usually rise around 6:00 to 6:30 am, so my first feeding is at 7:00. Then I'll eat again at 8:00. Those two mini-meals are just a mug of coffee with 2 tbsp. of half & half cream. Despite how little creamer that really is over the two feedings, it gives me both fat and about 2 grams of protein from the milk half of the *half & half*... so that starts my morning off comfortably for me. Then my third meal at 9:00 is usually a couple of egg whites.

I do my eating from the concept of pain management principles: You have to stay ahead of the pain, so take your pain meds regularly, as scheduled, so the pain doesn't break through. LOL So I take my mini-meals regularly, as scheduled, so the hunger doesn't break through. I'm amazed that it actually works and that it works so well.

My last meal is my 10:00 pm feeding, and I'm usually going to bed about 11:00, so don't bother to eat then. I'm always too full with no hunger by then anyway. Sometimes I can't eat all of the end-of-the-day meals in the latter evening anyway and don't worry about it.

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Old 11-01-2012, 03:01 AM   #115
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....I do my eating from the concept of pain management principles: You have to stay ahead of the pain, so take your pain meds regularly, as scheduled, so the pain doesn't break through....


Pat, you are amazing!!!
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Old 11-01-2012, 03:07 AM   #116
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Pat, you are amazing!!!
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Old 10-05-2013, 02:45 PM   #117
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Pat where are you Happy One?

I found your pain theory quite reasonable and that you applied it to food,
in the mini meals is brilliant. Stay ahead of the pain/hunger...

Are you still doing this practice? It would relieve one on a DD with the hunger.
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Old 10-06-2013, 10:04 AM   #118
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I might try this. I can fast from coffee in the morning until dinnertime, but I usually end up eating around 400-500 calories in total. If I had meals planned throughout the day, it might be easier to stick to 300. Now to find out what those mini-meals would consist of. Going to read through this thread.
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Old 10-07-2013, 05:44 AM   #119
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Let us know how that goes for you!
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Old 10-07-2013, 06:34 AM   #120
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I've already gone 2 hours without eating. I brought a few things with me, but I'm not hungry. Might eat some yogurt in a little.

Ok, you talked me into it. I had one piece of bacon for 35 cals. Let the experiment commence.

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