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Old 12-14-2012, 08:51 AM   #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lynne2u View Post
From what I'm reading around Paul Jaminet's blog, what the boys are saying is that autophagy goes with protein fasting or going without protein for a period of time.

It's sort of mixed up with the idea of intermittent fasting (on his blog), or abstaining from all food for a period of time; but if you think about autophagy and what's going on there, it makes sense that without dietary protein, your body goes scavenging for what it scraps it can find laying around. What's being "phaged" is protein. Entirely.

So...I wonder if we JUDDDers can use this to carve out a 16 hour window of protein deprivation, and no more, on DD? Sort of having our cake and eating it too.

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Interesting. I am trying to study the website and stumbled on to the info about IF and circadium rhythm. I am anxious to read this book!
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Old 12-14-2012, 09:01 AM   #182
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I am currently blissfully happy with my WOE, however I find this discussion on IF fascinating. Since the discussion is on an IF thread it seems okay to leave it here, to me anyway.

And yes, I too think JUDDD can be used with any WOE: vegan, low carb, primal, even SAD.
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Old 12-15-2012, 04:28 AM   #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lynne2u View Post
From what I'm reading around Paul Jaminet's blog, what the boys are saying is that autophagy goes with protein fasting or going without protein for a period of time.

<snip>

So...I wonder if we JUDDDers can use this to carve out a 16 hour window of protein deprivation, and no more, on DD? Sort of having our cake and eating it too.

Lynne
I like your thinking Lynne. I too have been following this thread with interest. And I've found the easiest way for me to do my 'down days' is with one 500 calorie meal in the late afternoon. So in order for this to be a 16 hour window for autophagy, I may need to eat a small 'supper' an hour or two before bed. Hmmm. I had been thinking that the longer fast would be better, but if I have my meal earlier in the afternoon then I could get another 16 hour fast in before my next Up Day meal!

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Old 12-17-2012, 06:01 AM   #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lynne2u View Post
From what I'm reading around Paul Jaminet's blog, what the boys are saying is that autophagy goes with protein fasting or going without protein for a period of time.

It's sort of mixed up with the idea of intermittent fasting (on his blog), or abstaining from all food for a period of time; but if you think about autophagy and what's going on there, it makes sense that without dietary protein, your body goes scavenging for what it scraps it can find laying around. What's being "phaged" is protein. Entirely.

So...I wonder if we JUDDDers can use this to carve out a 16 hour window of protein deprivation, and no more, on DD? Sort of having our cake and eating it too.

Lynne
Lynne, I'm way behind with this thread, but this is a GREAT thought. Thanks.
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Old 12-17-2012, 09:40 AM   #185
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Is autophagy a good thing?

I've looked up autophagy, but I still don't understand.
I (on most days) eat only during my 5-10 pm window. Is the latest research still saying this is a good thing?
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Old 12-17-2012, 01:24 PM   #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sueparl View Post
I've looked up autophagy, but I still don't understand.
I (on most days) eat only during my 5-10 pm window. Is the latest research still saying this is a good thing?
Sue, are you in the beginning stages of JUDDD? You are fine with the window. I am looking into this because we would like to know the reasoning behind the different recommendations? Also, if you can watch the Horizon video, it will help you to understand the different ways to fast.
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Old 12-18-2012, 04:38 AM   #187
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Like chocolate and lasagna, autophagy is a good thing that can be taken too far. It begins by cleaning up the dead bits of living cells, dead cells, and other internal debris. Which is good. This refreshes the body at the cellular level, which is very healthy. Of course, like all house cleaning, autophagy needs to be initiated frequently - to clean up new clutter.

BUT, once it gets started, it can just keep going. When the clutter is gone, it begins to burn up healthy living stuff. Not good. We are exploring the question of 'how clean is too clean?'

The answer, I suspect, is going to depend on how much clutter needs to be cleaned up and how fast autophagy functions within each individual's body. Meaning it is metabolically based.

Anyone else notice a JUDDD-like pattern here? 16 hours for autophagy to clean up? 40 hours for DD fast? I am betting it is all going to be based on individual metabolism and change over time/health.

Dang, I wish there were SIRT-stix or cellular-dust-bunny-stix we could piss on to see how well we are doing keeping it all in balance!!!
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:00 AM   #188
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I think Nancy needs to write a book. I love your explanations!
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:15 AM   #189
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Sunday, I agree. Nancy, you have a way of wording things that makes a lot of sense, as well as amuses. I was too lazy to look up autophagy since it popped up in the posts, but I know feel like I get it, at least on a basic level.
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Old 12-18-2012, 12:21 PM   #190
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Cellular dust bunny stix.....

Perfect!!!
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Old 01-08-2013, 07:01 AM   #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lynne2u View Post
From what I'm reading around Paul Jaminet's blog, what the boys are saying is that autophagy goes with protein fasting or going without protein for a period of time.

It's sort of mixed up with the idea of intermittent fasting (on his blog), or abstaining from all food for a period of time; but if you think about autophagy and what's going on there, it makes sense that without dietary protein, your body goes scavenging for what it scraps it can find laying around. What's being "phaged" is protein. Entirely.

So...I wonder if we JUDDDers can use this to carve out a 16 hour window of protein deprivation, and no more, on DD? Sort of having our cake and eating it too.

Lynne
Well, I finally pieced this together by reading more on Jaminet's own website and his chapter on fasting in PHD! Perfect Health Diet

Plus this link from E.W. on protein fasting.
Slowing Down Aging with Intermittent Protein Restriction

My budds, I have always suspected that I was eating too much protein initially and between these two findings I believe that eating protein on DD could be where my prob is? This is why the DD Potato day is working so well!!!
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Old 01-08-2013, 07:06 AM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vilanteira View Post
I've never heard of the Perfect Health diet, but it's interesting to me because it looks remarkably like the way I ate naturally when I was in JUDDD wlm (since those in that "safe starches" list are really the only carbs I ever feel like eating). I've now had to decrease the carb level because of BG and other health issues, so my protein % is now higher than the carb %, so the ratio is a bit off now, but basically still the same principle.

NK didn't work for me (at least not in the extreme high fat %), but I do feel I am one who needs to watch protein intake. I'll definitely be looking into this more. Very interested in whether this also works well for others. Thanks for sharing the info, Sunday.
Vila, I just wanted to say that lowering the protein (see post above) & bumping up the carbs a bit with 65% fat has made a huge difference for me. Loving PHD!
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Old 01-08-2013, 08:10 AM   #193
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Sunday, please keep posting your experiences with PHD, I'm very interested in your progress.
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Old 01-08-2013, 08:25 AM   #194
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Sunday, please keep posting your experiences with PHD, I'm very interested in your progress.
Will do! It is feeling right and basically the only difference from my prior plan, is that I had my carbs much lower and protein higher. 65/20/15 are the PHD ratios and it is really easy once you get the idea out of your head that protein is more important than veggies.

And to think that the potato hack is where I had the lightbulb moment.
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Old 01-09-2013, 12:37 PM   #195
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Vila, I just wanted to say that lowering the protein (see post above) & bumping up the carbs a bit with 65% fat has made a huge difference for me. Loving PHD!
Sunday, I was having good results and feeling great by doing my version of PHD last month after you brought it up (a bit less carbs and a bit more protein to balance out my BG). I'm usually somewhere between 60% fat/25% protein/15% carbs and 65% fat/20% protein/15% carbs. PHD seems to be a much better fit for me than NK. No negatives GI issues either, which is usually my number one sign that something is off. I'm sort of off the wagon with any plan right at the moment but will get back to this soon, as it was working really well for me.
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Old 01-09-2013, 12:39 PM   #196
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Very happy to know. I have been thinking about you and believing in a good 2013.
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Old 01-14-2013, 01:53 PM   #197
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I want to thank you all for your posts, and especially to Sunday for all of your research...it explains something to me that I was kind of worried about...I have trouble doing the potato days...so...I started having gluten free pasta with just a tiny bit of sauce and parsley flakes..and I'm having great results... so I started thinking that for me, maybe it's the fact that I'm having little or no protein?...I am going to read as much of your research as I can today, but I believe that there is something going on with me that allows me to lose based on having very little protein on the dd....yaaaay...it's a miracle..
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Old 01-14-2013, 02:47 PM   #198
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I want to thank you all for your posts, and especially to Sunday for all of your research...it explains something to me that I was kind of worried about...I have trouble doing the potato days...so...I started having gluten free pasta with just a tiny bit of sauce and parsley flakes..and I'm having great results... so I started thinking that for me, maybe it's the fact that I'm having little or no protein?...I am going to read as much of your research as I can today, but I believe that there is something going on with me that allows me to lose based on having very little protein on the dd....yaaaay...it's a miracle..
Hello Jaymar,
Yes, I was eating way too much protein and never knew?!?!
I stayed within my cal numbers, but the fact that I never truly absolute protein fasted until I did the tater hack, may have been stalling me. Thanks to Ouiz and her Tater Hack, I started looking more into the PHD. I hope you will go to their site too, because it will help you understand how the science works. Right now, I am JUDDD, plus the 16 hour protein fast daily. I feel good.
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Old 01-14-2013, 04:07 PM   #199
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I sure will, and thank you again..
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Old 01-15-2013, 04:04 AM   #200
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Over the years, I have frequently come across articles that say, in complex sciencese, if you restrict eating to one food group (protein, fat, or carb) you will lose weight. But, even though the liver is very good at breaking food down to it's molecular bits and rebuilding it in other forms, over time your health will suffer (possible exception here is potato which really does combine carb/protein/fat and a heck of a lot of macro-nutrients). Anyway, to me this 'you will lose weight and ultimately lose health' bit implies either those molecular rebuilds are flawed or the volume of rebuilds the liver makes does not totally relate to the needs of the body at the bigger, total metabolic level.

Probably the second? she postulated. We know some people who eat LC or meat/fat or veggies only thrive for years and years ... and others very definitely do not thrive.

Always, we come back to experimenting with how our personal bodies respond to foods. What we eat, what time we eat it, how many calories we ingest at a sitting, all of that (and more) play into both what we weigh and how we feel. (And, over time, as we lose weight those answers may change as our metabolism changes. "We shall not cease from exploration" if we are smart.)

Whenever I see an ad or an article that says "Do this - eat this - and you absolutely will lose weight and feel great!" I roll my eyes and scoff. I know it may work for some people, but it will be a waste of time (and probably money) for others. Where health and weight are involved one size does not and cannot fit all.

So, CONGRATULATIONS on finding you need to reduce protein!!! Happy Dance for happy losers!!

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Old 01-15-2013, 07:36 AM   #201
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Good post Nancy!

There is the proverbial "sweet spot" for dieters, it's the thing that makes/helps each successful dieter lose weight. Once upon a time it was JUDDD for me. Then JUDDD stopped working (or I stopped working it). I think it was more like the latter.

Sunday, how do I find this potato hack site?
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Old 01-15-2013, 08:56 AM   #202
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Here is the link to Adventures In Potatoes

Also, if you search the JUDDD threads for the word 'potato' you will find a few more discussions.
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Old 01-15-2013, 09:28 AM   #203
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Thanks Nancy!!
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Old 01-15-2013, 10:17 AM   #204
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Nancy, I don't think I was too far off base initially, but the one thing I noticed is that during the academic year, especially Aug-Dec & Feb -May, I was downing protein as my way to get all of my cals for UD without a period of say even 10 hours non-protein. I have always been low carb until I realized, I can have what Jaminet believes as safe starches, potatoes, sweet potatoes & starchy veggies. The difference in lowering the protein for me who was previously high, has been remarkable. So, I am absolute fasting 16 hours to see where this takes me. I am pretty excited about this.
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Old 01-15-2013, 10:20 AM   #205
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Blonde, I still JUDDD, but do not eat anything after 5pm and wait until 9 am or later for my 1st meal. Right now, it is about 7 hour eating window. I did 6 hour window on Sat/Sun just to see if I notice a difference.
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Old 01-15-2013, 10:26 AM   #206
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Last week I had been reading about some of the eating windows,,and I've been sticking pretty close , for the last few days, of having my first meal around 11 am...and the last one just before 7pm...I'm interested in how well it works for you, Sunday...I don't weigh again til thursday..so Im hoping it will help me also.There is a book called 8 hour diet..but..I'm not interested in changing from what I've been doing with the Juddd, unless this experiment shows me some good numbers...I have also been reading about the PHD, and most of the foods are what I already eat..with the exception of organ meats...so..I will be awaiting your progress, and good luck to you.
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Old 01-15-2013, 10:36 AM   #207
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I believe the organ meats are healthy, but not for me either.

Jaminet's suggest liver weekly, but also mention if you don't eat some liver weekly, to supplement with zinc/copper, which I began.
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Old 01-15-2013, 10:41 AM   #208
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I'm doing liver. Mixed feelings.
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Old 01-15-2013, 10:45 AM   #209
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Sunday et al, I have my fingers, toes, eyes, etc crossed for you. I am firm believer in shaking things up and I think what you are doing is a great and very reasonable shake!

Chuckle, in maintenance I find myself eating more and more of my favorite foods: veggies, fruit, and fat/cheese sauce. Entire weeks have gone by during which I never touched meat. So, I am kinda doing your opposite: adding some meat/protein back. Hmmmm, I have not read PHD yet. But, I used to really enjoy curried liver. Hmmmmmmmm
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Old 01-15-2013, 04:49 PM   #210
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Oh no, I can't do liver. My mom made it once a week when I was a kid and it was required eating. I would cut mine up in the tiniest of pieces then swallow each one without chewing, like vitamins....

I'm doing a potato DD today to see if I can do it. If each medium potato has 100 calories then two for breakfast, one after work today and two for dinner should put me around 500 calories. I've been doing WW but the first week I lost 4 ounces. I weigh again on Friday and maybe if I throw in a couple of DD's I might lose a pound or two. I like what WW has to teach as far as portion control and behavior modification but seriously if I can't lose any weight doing it, I won't be able to hang with it. I don't need fast but 4 ounces a week is torture.
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