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Old 08-07-2012, 09:00 AM   #1
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Eat, Fast and Live Longer. Horizon

BBC Two - Horizon, 2012-2013, Eat, Fast and Live Longer

The link above will let you watch this BBC programme on intermittent fasting, aired yesterday. Not sure if it works outside the UK.

The presenter was wildly enthusiast about the WOE after trying it for a month and losing weight and improving his markers for cancer and heart disease etc.
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Old 08-07-2012, 09:30 AM   #2
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I'm in US and can't, Stargazer, but haven't stopped trying to figure out a way.

In the meantime, here is part of Sam Wallaston's review in The Guardian. This is the only part of the review that touches on Alternate Day (the first parts of the program are on things like 3 days of fasting). Also the rest of it is extremely tough reading because he has such a trendy, edgy style he's hard to understand.
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There is another, easier, way: intermittent fasting, on alternate days. It's not total starvation either – one day you get to eat 500 to 600 calories (400 to 500 for women). And on the other day, the feast day, you get to eat what the hell you like. A proper American diet even: Maccy D's, Taco B, Krispy K, the lot. And it has most of the same benefits as the total three-day fast. Maybe you don't get to live forever, but you live a hell of a long time. And you never look a day over 30. ADF they call it, for alternative day fasting.
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Old 08-07-2012, 10:26 AM   #3
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The 3rd article here (Daily Mail Online - the first 2 are about The Scarsdale Diet) entitled "Fasting Diet Lowered My Blood Pressure and Cholesterol" is by Michael Mosley (the presenter) himself - look for him in the photo holding a mouse. Much better explanation.

Why a starvation diet could actually be good for you - and make you live longer | Mail Online

At first he talks about his experience with full fasting for 3 days. Then he talks about his experience with Alternate Day - very complimentary.

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Old 08-07-2012, 02:49 PM   #4
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Thanks Stargazer & Whitlin! Looking forward to reading this!
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Old 08-08-2012, 12:35 AM   #5
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The Horizon programme can be seen on YouTube - just do a search for Horizon fasting and you'll get it.
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Old 08-08-2012, 01:47 AM   #6
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Thanks, casmira.
And thanks for the thread.
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Old 08-08-2012, 03:11 AM   #7
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I watched this program too - glad to see some mainstream support for alternate day fasting! The scientist on the show though seemed to say you can eat anything on UDs - no calorie restriction. This might work for those who don't have food issues!

I have been trying to convert my friend for a long time to low carb first & now to LC JUDDD. She is still convinced low carb is bad (all that protein ruins your kidneys!) but now wants to try alternate day fasting. My preaching about LC over the years was never convincing since I never managed to loss very much weight before I started JUDDD.

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Old 08-08-2012, 10:41 AM   #8
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My preaching about LC over the years was never convincing since I never managed to loss very much weight before I started JUDDD.

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Wow, so true for me, also!
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Old 08-08-2012, 01:09 PM   #9
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I watched the whole program. It was all very interesting and although he is delighted to be losing some weight, the prime object of his study was how to obtain the health benefits of fasting. He is now losing weight and getting the health benefits doing just 2 days of fasting on around 600 cals.

I am more and more interested in the health benefit of JUDDD.

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Old 08-08-2012, 07:24 PM   #10
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Knowing that Alternate Day was near the end and having little time, I was just able to watch Part 4 of the program on YouTube today. I realize I even missed some of Dr. Mattson and the mice, so I will go back because of course I want to hear all Dr. Mattson would have to say. I will definitely share this with others. I found it FANTASTIC. My favorite quote I scribbled down:

Quote:
"Fasting stresses your gray matter the way that exercise stresses your muscles."
Seeing the baby brain cells coming into being and trying to grasp that - wow. Have I made new baby brain cells today on my DD? Boggles the mind.

My question had been, it seemed he was talking about 2 DDs together but later he explained that they were at different points in the week. You just find yourself so happy for him (even though, how much easier to lose weight for a man!), that after 5 weeks he had so much health improvement and had no trouble saying he wanted to keep on with the way of eating.

Gee, I am SO ready for my dr to want to do bloodwork now! Bring it on! I think my last bloodwork was done when I was struggling and very much off-plan.
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Old 08-09-2012, 04:01 AM   #11
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Whitlin' - After watching the videos on Dr. Mattson and the youtube of Todd Becker, I am of the opinion that men do experience much better benefits and quicker on ADF. It is interesting to me that they need to only do a couple days per week. I have read on a lot of different blogs and this theme is recurrent in many of the fasting circles.
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Old 08-09-2012, 07:20 AM   #12
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Thanks Stargazer for the video. very intersting. watched it on youtube.!! He's did the 5 regular days and 2 DD, intersting that he lost about 10 lbs!
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Old 08-11-2012, 04:54 PM   #13
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After 3 days, the videos have been watched something like 15-20,000 times altogether (there is a complete video of the program and then 4 quarter-program videos). I know I have certainly recommended it to friends and family. I wish there could have been something like this a few years ago, to further vindicate Alternate Day and get people talking. It's good television, too - entertaining.

Quote:
Whitlin' - After watching the videos on Dr. Mattson and the youtube of Todd Becker, I am of the opinion that men do experience much better benefits and quicker on ADF. It is interesting to me that they need to only do a couple days per week. I have read on a lot of different blogs and this theme is recurrent in many of the fasting circles.
sunday, maybe here is the helpful talking-point needed for those of us who have men in the family we'd like to get to consider this WOE.
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Old 08-14-2012, 11:39 AM   #14
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Horizon has been going for decades and is always brilliant. The BBC are excellent at producing good science programmes. The same presenter tried HIIT exercises as well a month back and found he had the wrong genes to get the full benefits but still had great improvements in fitness.
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Old 08-14-2012, 12:40 PM   #15
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Thanks for this.

I watched all parts and noticed there was brief mention of CR on a regular basis not being as effective.

Then when it came to the part about neuron growth being stimulated by hunger, I wondered if there is a difference in being mildly hungry on DD (more frequent, small feedings) or increased level of hunger then eating one or two larger meals. OR is hunger, hunger?

Also the woman who was working w the ADF said one meal a day, 400 cal for women, etc. Then that most participants ate only 110% of cals rather than the expected 175% on feast days.

Yes, he did say that his two DD ended up being scattered rather than together which was the initial plan. That sounds better to me not only because you get to eat the next day but also spreading out the fast days would keep the SIRT1 more even.

The occasional 4 day fasts didn't seem to work at all since it was a very short time before his markers were in the negative. So if you are not going to fast again for say 3 months, that's proabably10 weeks of being in the red!! Big waste of time for the discomfort of fasting.

I am going to watch this again.
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Old 08-14-2012, 12:56 PM   #16
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Thanks for this.

Then when it came to the part about neuron growth being stimulated by hunger, I wondered if there is a difference in being mildly hungry on DD (more frequent, small feedings) or increased level of hunger then eating one or two larger meals. OR is hunger, hunger?

Also the woman who was working w the ADF said one meal a day, 400 cal for women, etc. Then that most participants ate only 110% of cals rather than the expected 175% on feast days.

Yes, he did say that his two DD ended up being scattered rather than together which was the initial plan. That sounds better to me not only because you get to eat the next day but also spreading out the fast days would keep the SIRT1 more even.

I am going to watch this again.
Jem, Very interesting.
So basically the women who benefited from ADF did better with one meal? And at lower than bmr on UD? I did not finish but will try and finish this soon.
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Old 08-14-2012, 12:57 PM   #17
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Stargazer,

I would love if you can add this video on the "Benefits of ADF" stickie.
Great to learn all of this.
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Old 08-14-2012, 01:03 PM   #18
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Sunday, she didn't say either way. Just that was the study schedule.

I would like for some of us JUDDDers to have some of the markers checked. They are not all standard tests.

But just the fact that we have improvement in normal labs is a sign that it works.
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Old 08-14-2012, 01:33 PM   #19
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Yes, I agree. I believe Tina (Mykidsteacher) has done this. I have been JUDDDing for 6 months, possibly 1 month during this was maintenance or less. I really want to know where my health has changed.
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Old 08-14-2012, 03:17 PM   #20
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Oh, one thing all the researchers agreed upon is to reduce protein. They also agreed that protein is important so reduce not eliminate.

This may be the main area where CR followers mess up.
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Old 08-14-2012, 05:50 PM   #21
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Oh, one thing all the researchers agreed upon is to reduce protein. They also agreed that protein is important so reduce not eliminate.

This may be the main area where CR followers mess up.
I just recently started following someone else on our boards who told me that lowering protein may be my best bet. I will be back with her info, because I believe this may be my answer. She is a former hcger who found out that her issues were from too much protein. Be back shortly.

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Old 08-14-2012, 05:55 PM   #22
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Jem, this may be the most difficult for me because protein is my weakness much more than fat.
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Old 08-14-2012, 07:04 PM   #23
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I watched this twice--once while I was working (photo editing--easy to listen!) and then again with DH the next night when I could really pay attention.

One of the questions we both had is what's just been mentioned--the protein. I really wonder how much is enough and how much is too much, and obviously the answer differs depending on the source. Any ideas?

The other thing I found interesting was Dr Varady's advice to eat one big meal between 12-2 on down days. I know we have many BUDDDS who fast until dinner but I wonder if anyone has had a single lunch meal on down day. I've always had 2-3 tiny meals through the day but am curious. My plan tomorrow is to have a big meal at lunch and see how I do, but also giving myself grace if I need to have a salad at dinner time. LOL
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Old 08-14-2012, 09:05 PM   #24
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Joyce the thing is that they didn't say that there had been any comparison....no mention of DD's even being studied any other way.
It seemed arbitrary.

As I was saying to Sunday previously; We seem to be getting benefits whether it's health related or weight loss so it seems that as long as you're keeping in your cal range, it works.
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Old 08-14-2012, 09:12 PM   #25
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Thanks, Jem. Yes, that's true. If you don't study it the other way, who knows? I'm curious if getting "full" once--which would happen if I ate it all in one meal--would help me get through the day more easily. I agree that it's likely that the benefits are the same either way.

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Old 08-14-2012, 10:11 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by mttemple4 View Post
I watched this twice--once while I was working (photo editing--easy to listen!) and then again with DH the next night when I could really pay attention.

One of the questions we both had is what's just been mentioned--the protein. I really wonder how much is enough and how much is too much, and obviously the answer differs depending on the source. Any ideas?

The other thing I found interesting was Dr Varady's advice to eat one big meal between 12-2 on down days. I know we have many BUDDDS who fast until dinner but I wonder if anyone has had a single lunch meal on down day. I've always had 2-3 tiny meals through the day but am curious. My plan tomorrow is to have a big meal at lunch and see how I do, but also giving myself grace if I need to have a salad at dinner time. LOL
I believe he later asked the other Dr. (Can't remember his name, sorryo said he didn't think the time of day mattered but it still appeared he ate 1 big meal at bkfast instead of small meals all day.

I accidentally tested the lunch only theory yesterday and i actually found I was less hungry all day. I ate a larger lunch while with friends and didn't even notice that I missed dinner until bed time. It could be a fluke but I wonder if eating one big meal mid day would sort of catch your body between still full from ud and gonna eat again soon. By the time I realized I was hungry, I could just think "well when I wake up I can eat again" and I slept better. May be worth a trial for those that find dd hard.
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Old 08-15-2012, 04:23 AM   #27
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I found another article that may relate to this.

http://archive.unu.edu/unupress/food...E/UID07E11.HTM

It seems that during the first day or days of a fast basal metabolism increases
and the body loses a lot of it's free protein. I am thinking this is probably like
the effect they were talking about obtained by limiting your protein.
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Old 08-15-2012, 05:37 AM   #28
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I tried the one big meal yesterday and found I did very well on it. I drank coffee and coconut oil until I was properly hungry at around 5.00pm and then ate a 400 cal meal of two egg omelet and salsa (very nice BTW). I was fine the rest of the day. I do think this might be a more effective way of fasting on DDs. I don't think I could have done it straight out of the box though. My hunger was too strong not to nibble during DDs until the magic kicked in.

I think it's useful to use DDs to limit your red meat intake. I love my stews and steaks so sticking to eggs and fish on the DDs keeps you on track that way too.
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Old 08-15-2012, 08:20 AM   #29
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Stargazer, I wonder if the CO interferes w the fasting process since it is a food/source of energy.

I would think that any caloric item would do that incl HWC, etc.
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Old 08-15-2012, 08:30 AM   #30
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Three points to bring to this bright discussion -

1) It was Dr. Mark Mattson who Michael Mosley (the presenter in E,F and LL program) quoted as saying it didn't matter when during the day you ate your DD cals. Dr. Mattson is an expert, certainly. I do wish we had that in his own words rather than another person saying he said it, but Mosley had just then gotten instructions from him.

2) Lately several threads have been dovetailing (because we are all so intelligent and discovering so many wise thoughts), so I wanted to tie them together a little, especially for newbies who may be lost if they don't read everything. The discussion here goes along with part of the discussion on this thread by PirateJenny :

Q: NOT fasting better for adrenals (+ cortisol, blood glucose, etc)?

The concept in that thread is that eating small portions all through the DD is probably better for those who have adrenal fatigue and/or some of the issues mentioned in the thread. (Lots of good adrenal fatigue info there if anyone's interested.) That discussion then spawned SoHappy's "Eating Every Single Hour Experiment" thread, also interesting.

3) personal note - my husband watched the E, F and LL program and wanted to try alternate day eating!!! Today is his second DD. He is pretty convinced he'll do better eating once a day on DDs, but decided to start out with small meals through the day to get a handle on the amount of food there will be.
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